Dirt 4 physics

[bogani 756]

RodgerDavies said:

I think the spectators are in fair places on the whole, but they've been set up for the stage running in one direction and I'm not sure they've been moved for the reverse versions. This is most noticeable in Finland.

But spectators on the outside of a bend will be outside no matter what direction you are going.

[versedi 39]

There's that one place in Finland, it's a 3 or 4 right through crest. When going one way with any longer car if you go too wide you'll snap them with your rear spoiler even though on low details they aren't there. Going the opposite direction they're standing in correct place. And that's no one mentioned about  - spectators are placed in same places no matter which direction the stage takes place. IMHO that's the main reason for spectators placement issues. 

[shadow118 18]

I've been reset once or twice in Monte Carlo because I somehow managed to hit some spectators, that were behind a barrier, while I was still on the side where the cars are supposed to be, as in - I didn't go over the barrier  :D 

[RodgerDavies 933]

bogani said:

RodgerDavies said:

I think the spectators are in fair places on the whole, but they've been set up for the stage running in one direction and I'm not sure they've been moved for the reverse versions. This is most noticeable in Finland.

But spectators on the outside of a bend will be outside no matter what direction you are going.

There's a big difference between being outside on the entry and exit of a corner though.

[bogani 756]

RodgerDavies said:

bogani said:

RodgerDavies said:

I think the spectators are in fair places on the whole, but they've been set up for the stage running in one direction and I'm not sure they've been moved for the reverse versions. This is most noticeable in Finland.

But spectators on the outside of a bend will be outside no matter what direction you are going.

There's a big difference between being outside on the entry and exit of a corner though.

Absolutely, but there are bends where they are in the middle point as well.

[SirPhilMcKraken 279]

Oh something I'm not sure has been mentioned as of yet, penalties in D4 now vary depending on what the penalty is for. Where before it was 15 seconds except puncture repair, it now is different each time. 

[bogani 756]

SirPhilMcKraken said:

Oh something I'm not sure has been mentioned as of yet, penalties in D4 now vary depending on what the penalty is for. Where before it was 15 seconds except puncture repair, it now is different each time. 

30 seconds if the mechanics fits a new rear spoiler without mudflaps? ;)

[SirPhilMcKraken 279]

bogani said:

SirPhilMcKraken said:

Oh something I'm not sure has been mentioned as of yet, penalties in D4 now vary depending on what the penalty is for. Where before it was 15 seconds except puncture repair, it now is different each time. 

30 seconds if the mechanics fits a new rear spoiler without mudflaps? ;)

In Dirt 7, you'll have to build your own car by hand ;)

[shadow118 18]

SirPhilMcKraken said:

bogani said:

SirPhilMcKraken said:

Oh something I'm not sure has been mentioned as of yet, penalties in D4 now vary depending on what the penalty is for. Where before it was 15 seconds except puncture repair, it now is different each time. 

30 seconds if the mechanics fits a new rear spoiler without mudflaps? ;)

In Dirt 7, you'll have to build your own car by hand ;)

Just like in "My summer car" :D 

[RodgerDavies 933]

SirPhilMcKraken said:

bogani said:

SirPhilMcKraken said:

Oh something I'm not sure has been mentioned as of yet, penalties in D4 now vary depending on what the penalty is for. Where before it was 15 seconds except puncture repair, it now is different each time. 

30 seconds if the mechanics fits a new rear spoiler without mudflaps? ;)

In Dirt 7, you'll have to build your own car by hand ;)

But if you preorder you get a crew that does it for you whilst you sit in a throne being fanned by palm leaves.

[SirPhilMcKraken 279]

RodgerDavies said:

SirPhilMcKraken said:

bogani said:

SirPhilMcKraken said:

Oh something I'm not sure has been mentioned as of yet, penalties in D4 now vary depending on what the penalty is for. Where before it was 15 seconds except puncture repair, it now is different each time. 

30 seconds if the mechanics fits a new rear spoiler without mudflaps? ;)

In Dirt 7, you'll have to build your own car by hand ;)

But if you preorder you get a crew that does it for you whilst you sit in a throne being fanned by palm leaves.

They'll even drive the car for you if you aren't up to it.

Oh wait, thats called arcade mode ;)

[bogani 756]

bogani said:

SirPhilMcKraken said:

Oh something I'm not sure has been mentioned as of yet, penalties in D4 now vary depending on what the penalty is for. Where before it was 15 seconds except puncture repair, it now is different each time. 

30 seconds if the mechanics fits a new rear spoiler without mudflaps? ;)

Anyone other than @Porkhammer know this reference by the way? ;)

[Porkhammer 78]

bogani said:

bogani said:

SirPhilMcKraken said:

Oh something I'm not sure has been mentioned as of yet, penalties in D4 now vary depending on what the penalty is for. Where before it was 15 seconds except puncture repair, it now is different each time. 

30 seconds if the mechanics fits a new rear spoiler without mudflaps? ;)

Anyone other than @Porkhammer know this reference by the way? ;)

Petter Solberg being near disqualification for not equipping any, if my memory serves me right - but their protest went through and they celebrated with mudflaps.

[SirPhilMcKraken 279]

Porkhammer said:

bogani said:

bogani said:

SirPhilMcKraken said:

Oh something I'm not sure has been mentioned as of yet, penalties in D4 now vary depending on what the penalty is for. Where before it was 15 seconds except puncture repair, it now is different each time. 

30 seconds if the mechanics fits a new rear spoiler without mudflaps? ;)

Anyone other than @Porkhammer know this reference by the way? ;)

Petter Solberg being near disqualification for not equipping any, if my memory serves me right - but their protest went through and they celebrated with mudflaps.

I did recognise that somewhere but couldn't remember the story, this sounds about right though

[DarkRedslayer 43]

tbtstt said:

Porkhammer said:

DarkRedslayer said:

After messing around on Dirt Rally a bit today, I was quickly reminded of one of my major annoyances with this game I hope doesn't carry on to 4.

Dumbass spectators being on the edge of the track that trigger auto reset to track. There's just about no game mechanic in existence that takes the fun out of a game more than an auto reset for me. Even magic grass (the grass that slows you down to 40mph or so) in other racing games is less annoying. Hopefully this time around either the spectators can run, or they are in nearly impossible places to hit them. Not on 2 feet off the edge of the outside of a corner exit, of a corner with a jump in it. I.E, high probability. I've been reset while still having wheels on the track. Makes me alt F4 pretty quickly. Its funny because the run I was doing I had already hit a tree and lost a bunch of time, but kept going. Then I apparently caught a spectator with my rear bumper and got reset, and immediately lost interest lol.

That's rally fans for you. I myself only ever had problem with one; and when pointing out how silly it would be for a spectator to stand in such a spot, they actually removed him.

The rest is very authentic in my opinion. You'll have to get better at staying on the road, sorry to say.

It's better than RBR where nudging a spectator meant insta-retirement.

This is one of the rare occasions I find myself disagreeing with you @Porkhammer. Some of the spectator placement in DR isn't good at all and, as stated above, not authentic by modern rally standards. 

From my own experience Finland and Monte Carlo are the two locations with the worst spectator positioning in DR: there are several corners where I get the back of the car out and, although the majority of my car is still on the road, the rear ends up clipping a spectator and I'm instantly reset. It wouldn't happen in real life and, although it's only a minor thing, I really hope that the spectator placement is more carefully considered in D4.

Finland was where I was when I ran into this yesterday.

Porkhammer said:

Well believe it or not, that's how spectators position themselves in reality. You needn't look long on any modern onboard to see how stupid spectators are.

So since we're using real life placement as an argument...

Do the cars randomly vanish and re-appear 2 feet over with a 15 second penalty in real life? Because I personally have never seen that happen during a run.

I'd be less annoyed if it let me splatter them all over the trees and then disqualified me.

[BadD0g 0]

DarkRedslayer said:

I'd be less annoyed if it let me splatter them all over the trees and then disqualified me.

Wait, so you ragequit when you hit a spectator and get reset, but you'd be OK with getting instantly disqualified instead? wat

Seriously though, the stage generator is probably going to place spectators randomly, so hopefully it'll be less likely to place them outside corners. The reset is annoying, but what's a better option? Disqualification might be more realistic, but then you might feel cheated if you go off and hit someone that was placed weirdly. Personally I would like it better if there was a fade to black for a couple of seconds, that way I could at least pretend something is happening behind-the-scenes instead of just watching the car magically reappear in the middle of the road. Who knows, it's a weird problem to solve.

Ultimately it doesn't matter much if you focus on staying on the road. Since all of D4's stages will be unique, it might matter even less, because you're not dealing with the same spectator placement every time. Sometimes the generator might put somebody in a bad place, but that's only one spectator placement in one corner in one stage. The chances of getting bad placements should be pretty low compared to DR where they never move at all.

[KevM 44]

I don't know that the spectators need to be randomly placed, but pre-placed per tile, so never anywhere silly?

[bogani 756]

Porkhammer said:

bogani said:

bogani said:

SirPhilMcKraken said:

Oh something I'm not sure has been mentioned as of yet, penalties in D4 now vary depending on what the penalty is for. Where before it was 15 seconds except puncture repair, it now is different each time. 

30 seconds if the mechanics fits a new rear spoiler without mudflaps? ;)

Anyone other than @Porkhammer know this reference by the way? ;)

Petter Solberg being near disqualification for not equipping any, if my memory serves me right - but their protest went through and they celebrated with mudflaps.

Yo. I said anyone other! ;)

Not near disqualification, and no protest. He served a 30 second penalty though but still managed to win in Greece 2004 ahead of Sebastien Loeb.

[BadD0g 0]

KevM said:

I don't know that the spectators need to be randomly placed, but pre-placed per tile, so never anywhere silly?

I thought Paul said the generator doesn't use "tiles" per se, it actually draws a road through the terrain. I don't remember the source exactly but I'm pretty sure it was in the Inside Sim Racing interview.

[DarkRedslayer 43]

BadD0g said:

DarkRedslayer said:

I'd be less annoyed if it let me splatter them all over the trees and then disqualified me.

Wait, so you ragequit when you hit a spectator and get reset, but you'd be OK with getting instantly disqualified instead? wat

Seriously though, the stage generator is probably going to place spectators randomly, so hopefully it'll be less likely to place them outside corners. The reset is annoying, but what's a better option? Disqualification might be more realistic, but then you might feel cheated if you go off and hit someone that was placed weirdly. Personally I would like it better if there was a fade to black for a couple of seconds, that way I could at least pretend something is happening behind-the-scenes instead of just watching the car magically reappear in the middle of the road. Who knows, it's a weird problem to solve.

Ultimately it doesn't matter much if you focus on staying on the road. Since all of D4's stages will be unique, it might matter even less, because you're not dealing with the same spectator placement every time. Sometimes the generator might put somebody in a bad place, but that's only one spectator placement in one corner in one stage. The chances of getting bad placements should be pretty low compared to DR where they never move at all.

I really, really hate resetting o.o It immediately removes me from any 'immersion' I previously had. 

In fact, just make them fly off like team rocket, give me my 15 second penalty and let me continue on. I don't even care that much about the penalty, but the reset drives me insane.

Also, I wish you all would quit saying "learn to stay on the road" really makes you sound like douche bags when you say that lol. When a guy is standing a foot off the edge of the track on a blind corner exit, it's not going to matter how good you are, you'll eventually hit him.

[BadD0g 0]

DarkRedslayer said:

BadD0g said:

DarkRedslayer said:

I'd be less annoyed if it let me splatter them all over the trees and then disqualified me.

Wait, so you ragequit when you hit a spectator and get reset, but you'd be OK with getting instantly disqualified instead? wat

Seriously though, the stage generator is probably going to place spectators randomly, so hopefully it'll be less likely to place them outside corners. The reset is annoying, but what's a better option? Disqualification might be more realistic, but then you might feel cheated if you go off and hit someone that was placed weirdly. Personally I would like it better if there was a fade to black for a couple of seconds, that way I could at least pretend something is happening behind-the-scenes instead of just watching the car magically reappear in the middle of the road. Who knows, it's a weird problem to solve.

Ultimately it doesn't matter much if you focus on staying on the road. Since all of D4's stages will be unique, it might matter even less, because you're not dealing with the same spectator placement every time. Sometimes the generator might put somebody in a bad place, but that's only one spectator placement in one corner in one stage. The chances of getting bad placements should be pretty low compared to DR where they never move at all.

I really, really hate resetting o.o It immediately removes me from any 'immersion' I previously had. 

In fact, just make them fly off like team rocket, give me my 15 second penalty and let me continue on. I don't even care that much about the penalty, but the reset drives me insane.

Also, I wish you all would quit saying "learn to stay on the road" really makes you sound like douche bags when you say that lol. When a guy is standing a foot off the edge of the track on a blind corner exit, it's not going to matter how good you are, you'll eventually hit him.

Sorry, don't mean to be rude, but really, they are not *in* the road, they're only a problem when you go off. We want to help you improve your driving so that you don't go off, that way you'll be cleaner and faster AND you won't have to deal with resets. Win-win, right? That guy standing close to the road doesn't matter if you keep a good line and don't go off. Yeah, mistakes happen, but they are mistakes, you can learn from them.

[DarkRedslayer 43]

BadD0g said:

DarkRedslayer said:

BadD0g said:

DarkRedslayer said:

I'd be less annoyed if it let me splatter them all over the trees and then disqualified me.

Wait, so you ragequit when you hit a spectator and get reset, but you'd be OK with getting instantly disqualified instead? wat

Seriously though, the stage generator is probably going to place spectators randomly, so hopefully it'll be less likely to place them outside corners. The reset is annoying, but what's a better option? Disqualification might be more realistic, but then you might feel cheated if you go off and hit someone that was placed weirdly. Personally I would like it better if there was a fade to black for a couple of seconds, that way I could at least pretend something is happening behind-the-scenes instead of just watching the car magically reappear in the middle of the road. Who knows, it's a weird problem to solve.

Ultimately it doesn't matter much if you focus on staying on the road. Since all of D4's stages will be unique, it might matter even less, because you're not dealing with the same spectator placement every time. Sometimes the generator might put somebody in a bad place, but that's only one spectator placement in one corner in one stage. The chances of getting bad placements should be pretty low compared to DR where they never move at all.

I really, really hate resetting o.o It immediately removes me from any 'immersion' I previously had. 

In fact, just make them fly off like team rocket, give me my 15 second penalty and let me continue on. I don't even care that much about the penalty, but the reset drives me insane.

Also, I wish you all would quit saying "learn to stay on the road" really makes you sound like douche bags when you say that lol. When a guy is standing a foot off the edge of the track on a blind corner exit, it's not going to matter how good you are, you'll eventually hit him.

Sorry, don't mean to be rude, but really, they are not *in* the road, they're only a problem when you go off. We want to help you improve your driving so that you don't go off, that way you'll be cleaner and faster AND you won't have to deal with resets. Win-win, right? That guy standing close to the road doesn't matter if you keep a good line and don't go off. Yeah, mistakes happen, but they are mistakes, you can learn from them.

If I'm not driving on the edge of my skill, then I shouldn't be racing lol. Resetting me doesn't make me get any better though, it just makes me not want to play. 

It's like resetting when I crash off, I hate it. I crashed, let me pay for it in a realistic way. If I choose to reset, then that's different, because I can mentally prepare myself. But when it happens unexpectedly, it's a sudden shock and I lose my focus and immersion factor. Which I know for some, means nothing. But I grew up playing RPG's so I grew up trying to place myself in the game for the most enjoyment, and it stuck.

If I could just go rally in real life I wouldn't care as much lol.

[PaloSamo 0]

If you went rally in real life paying for crashes would hurt and cost much more. 

[BadD0g 0]

DarkRedslayer said:

BadD0g said:

DarkRedslayer said:

BadD0g said:

DarkRedslayer said:

I'd be less annoyed if it let me splatter them all over the trees and then disqualified me.

Wait, so you ragequit when you hit a spectator and get reset, but you'd be OK with getting instantly disqualified instead? wat

Seriously though, the stage generator is probably going to place spectators randomly, so hopefully it'll be less likely to place them outside corners. The reset is annoying, but what's a better option? Disqualification might be more realistic, but then you might feel cheated if you go off and hit someone that was placed weirdly. Personally I would like it better if there was a fade to black for a couple of seconds, that way I could at least pretend something is happening behind-the-scenes instead of just watching the car magically reappear in the middle of the road. Who knows, it's a weird problem to solve.

Ultimately it doesn't matter much if you focus on staying on the road. Since all of D4's stages will be unique, it might matter even less, because you're not dealing with the same spectator placement every time. Sometimes the generator might put somebody in a bad place, but that's only one spectator placement in one corner in one stage. The chances of getting bad placements should be pretty low compared to DR where they never move at all.

I really, really hate resetting o.o It immediately removes me from any 'immersion' I previously had. 

In fact, just make them fly off like team rocket, give me my 15 second penalty and let me continue on. I don't even care that much about the penalty, but the reset drives me insane.

Also, I wish you all would quit saying "learn to stay on the road" really makes you sound like douche bags when you say that lol. When a guy is standing a foot off the edge of the track on a blind corner exit, it's not going to matter how good you are, you'll eventually hit him.

Sorry, don't mean to be rude, but really, they are not *in* the road, they're only a problem when you go off. We want to help you improve your driving so that you don't go off, that way you'll be cleaner and faster AND you won't have to deal with resets. Win-win, right? That guy standing close to the road doesn't matter if you keep a good line and don't go off. Yeah, mistakes happen, but they are mistakes, you can learn from them.

If I'm not driving on the edge of my skill, then I shouldn't be racing lol. Resetting me doesn't make me get any better though, it just makes me not want to play. 

It's like resetting when I crash off, I hate it. I crashed, let me pay for it in a realistic way. If I choose to reset, then that's different, because I can mentally prepare myself. But when it happens unexpectedly, it's a sudden shock and I lose my focus and immersion factor. Which I know for some, means nothing. But I grew up playing RPG's so I grew up trying to place myself in the game for the most enjoyment, and it stuck.

If I could just go rally in real life I wouldn't care as much lol.

Yeah, I get that. Getting auto-reset when you crash out and go too far away from the road is pretty annoying. But for spectators, there's not really any other way of doing it, you know? Other than the insta-DNF, which probably wouldn't go down well with lots of players. I wouldn't mind having that as an option, but that might create an unfair advantage for players who don't use it. There's NO way they'd be able to get away with any sort of violence whatsoever, even just a hint of it; if they did all the manufactures would drop their licenses without hesitation. They're picky enough about their cars getting damage in video games, let alone hitting people! I don't even think they'd be able to get away with the "fade to red" thing like Richard Burns Rally had.

As I said, the stage generator *should* have the ability to place spectators in more logical locations, so we'll have to see if it works out. I remember Paul saying that spectators will be placed better, but it was in the Gossip thread from when Dirt 4 was announced so you'd have do do some archaeology to find that post.

[KevM 44]

Can I ask what spectators have to do with Physics please?