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Dirt4 Graphics downgrade

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Dusan78 said:
I have the GTX 1080 and latest i7 and on ULTRA settings the game looks dated and way behind the Dirt Rally graphics.  Specially inside the cars it just looks so plain.  I haven't tried every location but, Australia looks like a cartoon and that practice yard also looks horrible with poor textures and detail.  From reading some of peoples comments I'm thinking that some of us got a B stock of Dirt 4 and not the real thing.  Every simulator game that's been out for a while looks better or same to me.  But inside the car Dirt 4 is just ridiculous for a 2017 title.  Overall, this game is a disappointment for a lot of people including myself.  I wish they would have asked people with proper hardware to beta test the game before putting out an unfinished product.  I really hope they do an update as it could be all a bug so some of us.

Cheers! 
I still have yet to see any pictures actually comparing the two. The one video I did see was in 720 and it was noticeably better in D4.

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And what game is on the pics ? Ah you got me... Way to too easy with this livery i think :D

And wow so outdated and so much of a downgrade that i struggle find words for it... 

(Beware of sarcasm) 






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Dirt 4 graphics is a huge step backward

First of all: Night lights are way better then in Dirt Rally, everything else is worse

Why D4 looks like a PS3 graphics:

- vegetation is about 2-3 color shades only (way too light green)
- all environment is over-saturated like in most of video games
- bad looking trees
- not enough varations of vegetables
- DUST IS UGLY
- all cabin interiors have go too much light in (toomuch  light in the car, not enough shadow generated by the roof)
- water splash is worse than in Dirt Rally

FPS drop down even to 15 (in village of Spain), Dirt Rally runs on 75-115 fps on the same machine

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To give an update.  I've tried the stage from the pic you posted with rain and it looks absolutely spectacular on my 120" screen.  There is no mistake that it's definitely an upgrade.  However, I have to say that not every scenario looks like that.  Rain and snow look amazing.  Australia looks a bit cartoon-y though which few people mentioned.  I find that more detail and objects there are the better the game looks.  But, if the scene is simple as in just a car with some grass and a tree here and there as in the practice yard, then it really shows that those objects are not of good quality. 

I would like to ask you guys about shadows and aliasing.  Some locations when sunny with a lot of shadows from trees, I can see jagged lines that move and crawl along the edges and it's really distracting.  This is really noticeable with shadows in the distance.  Shadows that are close to you are better.   I remember having this on Dirt Rally as well so I would have to turn the shadows to " very low" which would eliminate the crawling jagged lines and just leave a soft smooth shadows with no hint of aliasing.  I am not sure why the anti-aliasing was never able to fix that problem even with highest settings and using nvidia injector application.   If anybody could give me some advice here that would be great.  Has anybody experienced this issue?  I want to mention that upping the resolution with DSR does improve the situation but using DSR with 3D is a problem because 3D needs 720P (for 60 FPS) and DSR works only with 1080P (24 FPS) since that's the projectors native resolution. 

 I also want to comment on the FFB with the direct drive 25nm OSW, simucube setup.  It is truly incredible and brings me more joy to drive than the rFactor 2, at least at the moment.   It is definitely better and more saturated with detail and strength, than Rally.  Overall, I'm actually loving the game after driving that rainy British forest track.   

Another issue I noticed, once I alt-tab to go into my config for OSW and then come back, after a minute the game will starts running slow and I will have to quit and re-launch the game to return to the butter smooth performance.  Anybody dealt with this?  I noticed that game is by default set as border-less instead of full-screen.  Is there any reason for one over other? 

I really hope that everybody has a chance at some point to try this game with a proper Direct drive OSW setup that can really rip your arms off.  You simply can not drive without gloves and I am sorry for thinking that some of you guys were going overboard.  lol  I am thinking of getting a fireproof suit and helmet because driving these cars requires so much focus and concentration that you really want to isolate yourself inside your head space.  I'm so excited for the future of sim racing!

--------------- edited for JZStudio----------------
I've just opened an account days ago and it was for a purpose to help somebody solve an issue they were having.  
http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/comment/269252#Comment_269252

It is my first time posting ever and I just wanted to type and send as soon as possible so I could return to what I was doing.  I never thought texts were big enough to require me to format anything.  This one got away from me and before I could format it, I was being called and had to rush off.  No need to be be rude and condescending, I'm not 12, I'm 39 years old.  You've haven't offered anything productive and haven't even expressed any interest to try and help with my problem.  You're post hasn't brought anything productive or something that will benefit me or other members which is the reason why I opened an account.  To help others and be able to ask others for help without somebody being on my case because, spelling, grammar, and text formatting.  There are people here from all over the world and if you can understand their message in some way than that should be enough for you to offer a helping hand to their problem and please leave comments about the language out of it.

I hope that my edited post is easier for you to read now.

Dusan

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First off, I'd like to introduce you to the concept of formatting, specifically pairing certain sentences of a similar ideas into paragraphs. Because holy hell that was hard to read, and it jumps to like 3 different topics.
You say you get jagged lines, but say it's the shadows? Then it's the shadow resolution... the only thing you can do is put it on low or bump it to high.

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It's like with physics ;)
Technically improved (lighting), but in some/lot situations looks subjectively worse (less realistic). I think due to oversaturation, because it looks better with cloudy/foggy whether. Also dust-tail doesn't look as consistent as in DR. In D4, sprites of dust are way more visible.

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Dusan78 said:
To give an update.  I've tried the stage from the pic you posted with rain and it looks absolutely spectacular on my 120" screen.  There is no mistake that it's definitely an upgrade.  However, I have to say that not every scenario looks like that.  Rain and snow look amazing.  Australia looks a bit cartoon-y though which few people mentioned.  I find that more detail and objects there are the better the game looks.  But, if the scene is simple as in just a car with some grass and a tree here and there as in the practice yard, then it really shows that those objects are not of good quality. 

I would like to ask you guys about shadows and aliasing.  Some locations when sunny with a lot of shadows from trees, I can see jagged lines that move and crawl along the edges and it's really distracting.  This is really noticeable with shadows in the distance.  Shadows that are close to you are better.   I remember having this on Dirt Rally as well so I would have to turn the shadows to " very low" which would eliminate the crawling jagged lines and just leave a soft smooth shadows with no hint of aliasing.  I am not sure why the anti-aliasing was never able to fix that problem even with highest settings and using nvidia injector application.   If anybody could give me some advice here that would be great.  Has anybody experienced this issue?  I want to mention that upping the resolution with DSR does improve the situation but using DSR with 3D is a problem because 3D needs 720P (for 60 FPS) and DSR works only with 1080P (24 FPS) since that's the projectors native resolution. 

 I also want to comment on the FFB with the direct drive 25nm OSW, simucube setup.  It is truly incredible and brings me more joy to drive than the rFactor 2, at least at the moment.   It is definitely better and more saturated with detail and strength, than Rally.  Overall, I'm actually loving the game after driving that rainy British forest track.   

Another issue I noticed, once I alt-tab to go into my config for OSW and then come back, after a minute the game will starts running slow and I will have to quit and re-launch the game to return to the butter smooth performance.  Anybody dealt with this?  I noticed that game is by default set as border-less instead of full-screen.  Is there any reason for one over other? 

I really hope that everybody has a chance at some point to try this game with a proper Direct drive OSW setup that can really rip your arms off.  You simply can not drive without gloves and I am sorry for thinking that some of you guys were going overboard.  lol  I am thinking of getting a fireproof suit and helmet because driving these cars requires so much focus and concentration that you really want to isolate yourself inside your head space.  I'm so excited for the future of sim racing!

--------------- edited for JZStudio----------------
I've just opened an account days ago and it was for a purpose to help somebody solve an issue they were having.  
http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/comment/269252#Comment_269252

It is my first time posting ever and I just wanted to type and send as soon as possible so I could return to what I was doing.  I never thought texts were big enough to require me to format anything.  This one got away from me and before I could format it, I was being called and had to rush off.  No need to be be rude and condescending, I'm not 12, I'm 39 years old.  You've haven't offered anything productive and haven't even expressed any interest to try and help with my problem.  You're post hasn't brought anything productive or something that will benefit me or other members which is the reason why I opened an account.  To help others and be able to ask others for help without somebody being on my case because, spelling, grammar, and text formatting.  There are people here from all over the world and if you can understand their message in some way than that should be enough for you to offer a helping hand to their problem and please leave comments about the language out of it.

I hope that my edited post is easier for you to read now.

Dusan
It does make it easier to read, thank you. I actually couldn't follow it before as it read like one massive run-on sentence. I've posted 4 times (before this) and 3 relevant to the topic and helpful, with 1 asking for comparisons of "the downgrade" which is also relevant to the topic and no one did so I made my own thread where I did it myself. Don't particularly care what you think of me, but it's just a bit odd saying I haven't been helpful when I have.

So, for your first paragraph I'd say I'm 90% certain that most of the stuff laying around the Dirtfish area is directly from D3, maybe with newer shaders. It's kind of a shit thing to do, but when you've got a small team and the models are already on file it's the quickest/easiest option. The diggers in particular are quite low res, and were also present in D3 along with containers, ramps, pipes/tubes, and the big inflatable gymkhana things.

Again with the shadows, that's just how they are. In almost every game. I always leave shadows on low because the resulting shadow is soft/blurry enough to not notice the terrible quality. The only other option is to turn it to ultra, which typically still doesn't look great while reducing performance. Shadows like everything else have draw distance and will pop in. Shadows can also be cast from different models than the one visually present which could help performance from a distance.
You then move on to antialiasing, which is typically more fore edges of models and not textures/shadows... Unless you're really actually talking about aliasing and not poor shadow resolution quality, then I'm not really sure. It honestly sounds like you don't really know what your describing. D4 uses MSAA which does edges but not interior textures/lighting. I'd link you to an article, but it's lengthy and it doesn't really matter. You might be able to get away with using a filter on SweerFX.

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You're welcome :) and I get it.  It was long.  But, strange thing is that when I type the comment in the window it looks so much better and more readable than when you actually post the comment.  Font and spacing is totally different which is why I never even thought about separating it.  As for what I think about you, definitely no ill feelings and not being helpful, I only meant to my long comment and not your other posts which I'm sure are great.  Again, I believe we're all here to help each other out and I'm sorry for maybe being harsh in my reply.

On to the shadows.  When you say I don't know what I am describing you might be right because I am thinking that anti-aliasing should reduce the jagged edges on both objects and shadows that those objects cast.  Is that not how it works?  So I have absolutely no aliasing issues with any object other than the shadows.  This could be low res of shadows that you are talking about.  So when I lower the shadow detail to ultra low instead of very detailed shadows of individual objects you basically get a uniform soft shadow that again is perfect with no aliasing (jagged edges issues).  Anything more than ultra low setting will introduce the problem.  I never understood why only the shadows have this problem and when driving your seeing these crawling jagged edges which are worse in the distance and better or not a problem closer to the car.  Also, when you're standing still picture is fine, problem is noticed when moving and those edges start to walk and crawl.  I also tried using FXAA which is suppose to make the whole screen softer.  I tried all the other options like adjusting Nvidia Inspector settings.  Having super-sampling set properly is suppose to be equal to increasing DSR but that's not the case.  Using DSR definitely give the best results but for some reason you can't use DSR for a 720p if your display device is 1080p.  I have then tricked my projector into showing 720p native but then everything else including playing movies and blue-rays in 3D is horrible.

I would like to show you what I am talking about but it only shows when actually driving so screenshot is not going to work.  I will try taking screen shots so you can at least see the picture quality issues that I was referring too in the previous comments. 

Cheers bud, 
Dusan


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Dusan78 said:
You're welcome :) and I get it.  It was long.  But, strange thing is that when I type the comment in the window it looks so much better and more readable than when you actually post the comment.  Font and spacing is totally different which is why I never even thought about separating it.  As for what I think about you, definitely no ill feelings and not being helpful, I only meant to my long comment and not your other posts which I'm sure are great.  Again, I believe we're all here to help each other out and I'm sorry for maybe being harsh in my reply.

On to the shadows.  When you say I don't know what I am describing you might be right because I am thinking that anti-aliasing should reduce the jagged edges on both objects and shadows that those objects cast.  Is that not how it works?  So I have absolutely no aliasing issues with any object other than the shadows.  This could be low res of shadows that you are talking about.  So when I lower the shadow detail to ultra low instead of very detailed shadows of individual objects you basically get a uniform soft shadow that again is perfect with no aliasing (jagged edges issues).  Anything more than ultra low setting will introduce the problem.  I never understood why only the shadows have this problem and when driving your seeing these crawling jagged edges which are worse in the distance and better or not a problem closer to the car.  Also, when you're standing still picture is fine, problem is noticed when moving and those edges start to walk and crawl.  I also tried using FXAA which is suppose to make the whole screen softer.  I tried all the other options like adjusting Nvidia Inspector settings.  Having super-sampling set properly is suppose to be equal to increasing DSR but that's not the case.  Using DSR definitely give the best results but for some reason you can't use DSR for a 720p if your display device is 1080p.  I have then tricked my projector into showing 720p native but then everything else including playing movies and blue-rays in 3D is horrible.

I would like to show you what I am talking about but it only shows when actually driving so screenshot is not going to work.  I will try taking screen shots so you can at least see the picture quality issues that I was referring too in the previous comments. 

Cheers bud, 
Dusan


Effectively, there's bunch of different types of AA that all work differently. The MSAA in D4 really only works on model edges. It works on a per pixel basis, and thus doesn't really affect textures and shadows. If you're intersted, here's Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multisample_anti-aliasing#Advantages
FXAA should've solved your problem, but I don't know how you applied it. FXAA is a full screen AA that samples every pixel and the pixels surrounding it to create an intermediate. It doesn't work in 3D space, it just applies to the entire image, so if it IS aliasing you're having issues with then FXAA should've solved it. Maybe you didn't use a high enough sample count with the FXAA?

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I feel a little bit disappointed the graphics on my xbox one. Maybe I just played too much in Australia and Michigan - I cannot see the lines clearly in some corners so I have to go slower with those corners. I played some daily stages in wales and it looks better than DR for the lights in the forest. I already started thinking about change to PS4 when microsoft says VR is not gonna happen for xbox. But I already got my wheel and pedal for xbox, switching a new set to ps4 would be too much money.
PC? If I can spend that much money to build a powerful enough PC I wouldn't need to complains anything about graphics don't I lol.

Btw don't mention water slash in D4... I thought that was a glitch of graphics on the ground..

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In most aspects, Dirt 4 DEFINITELY looks better than Dirt Rally. However, it doesn't feel as....smooth, even though they both run 1080p ultra 60fps on my higher midrange setup. I think i know why that is, it's most likely the motion blur. In Dirt Rally it looked amazing and improved the sensation of speed, whereas in Dirt 4 it's basically nonexistent.  And that also makes it look kinda bland to me, even though i know many people dislike that effect

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In most aspects, Dirt 4 DEFINITELY looks better than Dirt Rally. However, it doesn't feel as....smooth, even though they both run 1080p ultra 60fps on my higher midrange setup. I think i know why that is, it's most likely the motion blur. In Dirt Rally it looked amazing and improved the sensation of speed, whereas in Dirt 4 it's basically nonexistent.  And that also makes it look kinda bland to me, even though i know many people dislike that effect
Couldn't tell you. Most people kept the rendering option or whatever in DR on low so they didn't get blur.

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Xbox One isn't that powerful & does suffer badly with optimisation in D4.  Some areas don't look that slick & some other places run very clunky.

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