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Reviews are out ... less sim than Dirt Rally ?!

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Hi guys,

As a big fan of Dirt Rally and everything Sim ... i am a bit dissapointed about the reviews so far. The majority speaks about an experience easier than Dirt Rally - even on simulation mode...
What´s you guys thoughts about this? Also, for everyone out there who has the game already and played Dirt Rally what´s the verdict?

Thanks

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I think what everyone is confusing easier for is more realistic. The aerodynamics in DR were so that you had to be very careful on the throttle so it made it more difficult than probably is in real life along with the unforgiving track edges. The cars now have weight so you can be more flatout without worrying.

The general opinion is harder to drive = more realistic when its not always the case. I think RBR cars are a bit too slidey like they're on ice sometimes.

I will say though, the rallycross physics are absolutely spot on. 

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I cant say anything on the physics side considering I haven't played the game but. I'm hoping they are talking about the game built around the physics. As in it's much easier to win. 

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Simulation implies predictability to me, apart from broken car setups. If the game simulates cars better than DiRT Rally, including their predictability - is it a bad thing? 

Of course, if simulating the Lancia 037 implies the ability to spin out while standing still in neutral, then...

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Snaky115 said:
Simulation implies predictability to me, apart from broken car setups. If the game simulates cars better than DiRT Rally, including their predictability - is it a bad thing? 

Of course, if simulating the Lancia 037 implies the ability to spin out while standing still in neutral, then...
Predicting how a car is going to behave is a good thing, the cars in DR always turned too quick and I often hit the wall but in D4 I can kiss the apex of corners easily now and surprise myself how accurately I get them but I don't believe this is because the game is easier but more down to it being more accurate to real life.

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You will get the best review when you play the game yourself, nowadays some of the reviewers jump to conclusions too fast. I find the Gamespot's review quite thorough - "Dirt 4 maintains the robust depth of Dirt Rally's full-blooded simulation, while smartly opening things up to a wider audience with a heaping of difficulty options." If you don't find the game good enough, the chance to refund in Steam is available.

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as with anything how much did they play before pumping out their reviews. did they just play a few bits of single player. as at the start in that it is pretty easy to ease you in.also how fast are you pushing.anyone can drive round a event slow.push hard then see.

do the harder events and your stage in various conditions then you see how easy the game is.already trolls on steam with numerous its arcade.

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OK some first impressions after two hours last night and two hours this morning on PS4 with G29 wheel, simulation mode with no assists:

Better physics overall. You can feel the weight of the cars. It's closer to Loeb Rally Evo. Asphalt greatly improved. Gravel physics I am torn. The R5s and FWDs feel nice and natural. But I just did the Historic RWD Weekly with the Opel Kadett and the understeer was unbelievable. Cannot turn in under braking and nearly impossible to loose the tail accelerating out of the turns confused. Pushed brake bias all the way forward, stiffened suspensions, made sure all settings were for the most oversteer possible and... still tragic understeer confused. Rallycross physics are sublime.

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Pushed brake bias all the way forward
That's how you produce understeer, so why are you surprised? :D
LOL what an idiot! That's what a hangover with 2 hours sleep will do! Don't I feel sheepish...

However, even with the default setup the car was suffering terrible understeer. Will have to go tweak the setup to see if I can loosen it up.

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OK some first impressions after two hours last night and two hours this morning on PS4 with G29 wheel, simulation mode with no assists:

Better physics overall. You can feel the weight of the cars. It's closer to Loeb Rally Evo. Asphalt greatly improved. Gravel physics I am torn. The R5s and FWDs feel nice and natural. But I just did the Historic RWD Weekly with the Opel Kadett and the understeer was unbelievable. Cannot turn in under braking and nearly impossible to loose the tail accelerating out of the turns confused. Pushed brake bias all the way forward, stiffened suspensions, made sure all settings were for the most oversteer possible and... still tragic understeer confused. Rallycross physics are sublime.
What you are saying is pretty much the feeback the devs have gotten from the testers.

The core simulation has improved but there are some small concerns. For me it shows most on the RWD cars and how they behave on gravel. It's very hard to get any on throttle oversteer, and once you do the tires quickly bite back on the road and sends you in the opposite lock direction.

Rallycross feels absolutely fantastic in all aspects though, and the RWD cars feels better on the Dirt Fish School, so I'm speculating it's the gravel surface on the stages that could use some tweaking.

- Weight of the cars
- Asphalt
- FFB
- Aero modeling

All those things are greatly improved. There is so much potential for it to be fantastic!

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Even rF2 has potential... since last 6 years ago...  Just to mention 'potential' is only a word a finally doesn't count.
pCars1, at day one was a superior physics-wise (flexi carcass etc) comparing to rf1, R3E etc. and what? Physics engine ability/complexity must not go hand-in-hand with final result which might be far from realism. It's just how you parametrize objects powered by this engine.

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MaXyMsrpl said:
Even rF2 has potential... since last 6 years ago...  Just to mention 'potential' is only a word a finally doesn't count.
pCars1, at day one was a superior physics-wise (flexi carcass etc) comparing to rf1, R3E etc. and what? Physics engine ability/complexity must not go hand-in-hand with final result which might be far from realism. It's just how you parametrize objects powered by this engine.
Why are you being so nitpicky and negative in all threads?

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MaXyMsrpl said:
Even rF2 has potential... since last 6 years ago...  Just to mention 'potential' is only a word a finally doesn't count.
pCars1, at day one was a superior physics-wise (flexi carcass etc) comparing to rf1, R3E etc. and what? Physics engine ability/complexity must not go hand-in-hand with final result which might be far from realism. It's just how you parametrize objects powered by this engine.
Yadayadayada. Whatever.

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I'm still wondering what differences are there under the hood between RX & Rally.
Etc. is the Cooper tire model used in rally also..

Then rises the question should there be differences or not.. RX has gravel and tarmac too, but the cars are somewhat different and maybe tires too. 

One thing i know DiRT 4 will be fun and exciting game to play and will be much improved in many aspects. Sim mode / Fearless difficulty/ 12 stages per rally in 5 different locations championship, with long & complex stages with dynamic weather and daytime. Should give a challenge :smiley:


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A few more reviews appeared on YouTube, not single one bashes Dirt4 - and that´s a very sign - but the majority speaks of a "easier" Dirt Rally experience even on full sim mode. Too much grip on gravel makes the cars easier to control. A step backward imo.
I hope i can testify that this friday, but i also hope Codies fix this...

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DESMOPT said:
A few more reviews appeared on YouTube, not single one bashes Dirt4 - and that´s a very sign - but the majority speaks of a "easier" Dirt Rally experience even on full sim mode. Too much grip on gravel makes the cars easier to control. A step backward imo.
I hope i can testify that this friday, but i also hope Codies fix this...
Read my post under your original

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majority are great reviews yet people pick out the worst :D

for the next week i expect nothing less tbh.every new game has it.all those that love it will be playing.those that want to complain head to steam or game forums.

yesterday for eg i nearly stopped doing videos cause of some of the stupidy in comments like....

you don't even need to use a break
you are in the wrong gear
its arcade

:# :D

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DESMOPT said:
A few more reviews appeared on YouTube, not single one bashes Dirt4 - and that´s a very sign - but the majority speaks of a "easier" Dirt Rally experience even on full sim mode. Too much grip on gravel makes the cars easier to control. A step backward imo.
I hope i can testify that this friday, but i also hope Codies fix this...
Read my post under your original
I did read it thanks ... i understand that car have more weight, that´s great. On Dirt Rally Finland jumps were ridiculous, some gravel stages seemed you were on ice - you are right about that - BUT you said: car´s are heavier and can go flatout without worrying ... something doesn´t make much sense there ... if they are heavier they are more stable, totally understandable, but with all that weight - on a perfect world - they should be a lot harder to stop under low grip situations as you find in any gravel stage in the world. If gravel stages present more grip in Dirt 4 with the added weight you be playing a totally diferent game other than rally imo.

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TuliRally said:
I'm still wondering what differences are there under the hood between RX & Rally.
Etc. is the Cooper tire model used in rally also..

Then rises the question should there be differences or not.. RX has gravel and tarmac too, but the cars are somewhat different and maybe tires too. 

One thing i know DiRT 4 will be fun and exciting game to play and will be much improved in many aspects. Sim mode / Fearless difficulty/ 12 stages per rally in 5 different locations championship, with long & complex stages with dynamic weather and daytime. Should give a challenge :smiley:


According to Game Chief Designer the tires in rally mode are not Cooper Tires. 

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DESMOPT said:
DESMOPT said:
A few more reviews appeared on YouTube, not single one bashes Dirt4 - and that´s a very sign - but the majority speaks of a "easier" Dirt Rally experience even on full sim mode. Too much grip on gravel makes the cars easier to control. A step backward imo.
I hope i can testify that this friday, but i also hope Codies fix this...
Read my post under your original
I did read it thanks ... i understand that car have more weight, that´s great. On Dirt Rally Finland jumps were ridiculous, some gravel stages seemed you were on ice - you are right about that - BUT you said: car´s are heavier and can go flatout without worrying ... something doesn´t make much sense there ... if they are heavier they are more stable, totally understandable, but with all that weight - on a perfect world - they should be a lot harder to stop under low grip situations as you find in any gravel stage in the world. If gravel stages present more grip in Dirt 4 with the added weight you be playing a totally diferent game other than rally imo.
What I meant by the flatout thing is I didn't trust the car to not go flying over the tiniest bump if I was slightly sideways in DR. Its not something that needs to be worried about anymore. The stopping distance of these rally cars are pretty good IRL, its down to the brakes not necessarily the grip in the road unless you lock your wheels

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It's definitely not as SIM as DR, much more forgiving all round imo.
eg. I just did todays daily challenge - a rallycross at Hells in the supercars. I had yet to race a supercar in Dirt4, I've just used the 1600s & superlites.
I knew the track very well from DR. In Dirt4 it is extremely forgiving. Hitting curbs & outside gravel didn't affect me at all :( The same mistakes made in DR would have given me a ton of trouble to combat through and retrieve.) The same can be said for (going wide on) rally stages.
The supercars also lack the violent punchiness & feedback of DR. (Although I'm still experimenting with the vibration & feedback settings.)

It's very dumbed down on SIM compared to DR which is a shame. I haven't attempted 'Gamer' settings, but with all the assists available in SIM (I race with everything off), I don't understand why this setting isn't as hardcore as DR. Doing full Michigan stages, in career, from start to finish in top gear isn't the most challenging.
I just keep telling myself it's Dirt4, not Dirt Rally 2.
Anyway on a positive note, all the team management additions are great, so no more stock piling  cash with nothing to spend it on :)
 
PS. got the (day 1?) update. No changes to driving that I can feel. 

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Dscru said:
It's definitely not as SIM as DR, much more forgiving all round imo.
eg. I just did todays daily challenge - a rallycross at Hells in the supercars. I had yet to race a supercar in Dirt4, I've just used the 1600s & superlites.
I knew the track very well from DR. In Dirt4 it is extremely forgiving. Hitting curbs & outside gravel didn't affect me at all :( The same mistakes made in DR would have given me a ton of trouble to combat through and retrieve.) The same can be said for (going wide on) rally stages.
The supercars also lack the violent punchiness & feedback of DR. (Although I'm still experimenting with the vibration & feedback settings.)

It's very dumbed down on SIM compared to DR which is a shame. I haven't attempted 'Gamer' settings, but with all the assists available in SIM (I race with everything off), I don't understand why this setting isn't as hardcore as DR. Doing full Michigan stages, in career, from start to finish in top gear isn't the most challenging.
I just keep telling myself it's Dirt4, not Dirt Rally 2.
Anyway on a positive note, all the team management additions are great, so no more stock piling  cash with nothing to spend it on :)
 
PS. got the (day 1?) update. No changes to driving that I can feel. 
Those are terrible news!! I was afraid that would be the case ... dumbed down sim mode and wider stages

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My Lord the hyperbole.                                                             

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I think what everyone is confusing easier for is more realistic...

The general opinion is harder to drive = more realistic when its not always the case...

Agreed. I have not played DiRT 4 yet, but I've noticed that this "harder = more realistic" line of thinking seems to be very common among many motorsport game/sim communities when it's simply not true.

More realistic = more realistic.

...And there's nothing even remotely realistic about cars that typically behave as though they are sliding across an iced-over lake without any tires (as often seems to be the case in some motorsport games/sims).


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