DiRT 4 - Large discussion in Reddit - Overly high grip on gravel?

[KahvaEel 53]

The game seems great, but many people seem concerned about overly high gravel grip levels and lack of On-throttle oversteer in RWD cars: https://www.reddit.com/r/dirtgame/comments/6fklhq/apparently_the_grip_level_gravel_in_dirt_4_is/

Redditor CMTR apparently is a rally driver with 14 years of experience, including national level, and he (among many others) says the grip level seems too high: https://www.reddit.com/r/dirtgame/comments/6fklhq/apparently_the_grip_level_gravel_in_dirt_4_is/dij1158/

Also major Dirt community member Porkhammer expressed his disappointment about this in his video comments multiple times. It was the only thing he didn't like about the physics. He mentions it in here, saying he is hoping it will be patched, and keeps repeating same complaint in other of his videos too:

https://youtu.be/JX9DJkVbfp4

Also, at simracing site http://www.racedepartment.com/ forums, user "bogani" points this out, and says the following:

"Had the game since friday. The core simulation in D4 is better than Dirt Rally. The weight of the cars make them more planted at speed and trickier to slow down hard on the brakes. The way you take air over jumps feels great. Tarmac also is a big improvement, don't expect Assetto Corsa, but it's improved alot. FFB is also better.

However, the rally gravel tire or the gravel surface itself needs some tweaking. The grip is simply too high. This is most noticeable in the RWD cars. They understeer like crazy and you can't really get any real throttle oversteer going. The funny thing is that they feel great on the Dirt Fish School area, so my guess is it's the modeled gravel surface on the rally stages that is the culprit. Oddly this does not happen Dirt Fish freeroam, and there cars feel awesome. It only happens in gravel stages."

Check his full post (#12) in here: http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/dirt-4-launch-trailer-revealed-ahead-of-release-9th-june.136720/#post-2495135

Also when compared to real life footage of Australia rally, cars of DiRT 4 don't get nearly as much sideways in corners, and drifts in DiRT 4 seem to end quicker than they should: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CaBnIJhHpE

Replays by YouTube user aki1337 who uses sim mode without any assists:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvzHK0ixSbk

There seems to be too much lateral/backend/overall grip on gravel.

Continuous slides around corners don't really seem to happen in any of the Sim handling gameplay videos, like in real life.  The drift "dies down" midway through the turn, not persisting like it did in DiRT Rally gravel stages. Also rear end doesn't seem to step out nearly as much as it should, because of this.

Could this be problem with gravel surface grip? Could this be maybe looked into?

Any word from Codemasters, if this is intended gameplay change? Personally I feel the lateral grip in DiRT Rally was pretty spot-on.

[ark13700 24]

This is a high quality forum post. But not as high quality and thought-provoking as "Dirt 4 - Too boring game".

On topic: I would also really appreciate a patch updating gravel characteristic if it improves the sim mode's realism.

[DESMOPT 0]

I hope Codies release a Day1 patch - it´s a minor tweaking ...

[Benniz 13]

Good discussion! I agree 100 % with what has been said.

[dgeesi0 305]

how it normally works.game releases and let masses play it then tweak.based on feedback.or have a group of people testing tweak day 1 or soon after release.

the back end definitely needs to come around easier on tight turns you need to be able to slide the car more.the asphalt tarmac is amazing dont mess with that .

[versedi 39]

I only wanted to mention, you're comparing a WRC to R5 car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC5zOwypAa0

[KahvaEel 53]

True, but this issue is pretty universal it seems. More in the grip of gravel itself (or, gravel tyre model) than a specific car model or drivertrain, although most visible in RWD cars.  There isn't really gameplay videos of any car, that would slide on gravel naturally, in a long continuous arc though a corner. Like cars of DiRT Rally did.

Although (other than this) physics issues of DiRT Rally seems to be all well addressed in DiRT 4. 

[MrDeap 12]

"For those of you who loved the simulation handling from DiRT Rally, don’t worry – our simulation stuff for DiRT 4 is very much based in the foundations of that, but refined in certain areas."

I pre-purchase the game based on that quote. I am currently not seeing this. 

[Porkhammer 78]

If by "expressed his disappointment" you mean I said "grip is a little too high in the back", then you're right. Trolls exaggerating for effect, smh. Also, I "repeat the same complaint" because people keep asking the same question.

I have 32 hours played since given the key and enjoying myself thoroughly, thank you.

[KahvaEel 53]

Porkhammer said:

If by "expressed his disappointment" you mean I said "grip is a little too high in the back", then you're right. Trolls exaggerating for effect, smh. Also, I "repeat the same complaint" because people keep asking the same question.

I have 32 hours played since given the key and enjoying myself thoroughly, thank you.

Sorry, intention was not to twist your words or troll. I'm purely a sim enthusiast, who very much hopes for the best of DiRT 4, and very much not a troll because DiRT 4 is a game I want to love. Perhaps "repeat same complaint" was unnecessary, because yes you were asked it by many people.

However it did display, that you weren't unsure about that feeling during the course of testing, but your opinion remained the same throughout older and latest videos. My purpose was not to portray you like you were whining or anything.

Anyway. Seems to be common community wish, and I hope it will be addressed.

[Porkhammer 78]

KahvaEel said:

Porkhammer said:

If by "expressed his disappointment" you mean I said "grip is a little too high in the back", then you're right. Trolls exaggerating for effect, smh. Also, I "repeat the same complaint" because people keep asking the same question.

I have 32 hours played since given the key and enjoying myself thoroughly, thank you.

Sorry, intention was not to twist your words or troll, I'm purely a sim enthusiast, who very much hopes for the best of DiRT 4, and very much not at troll because DiRT 4 is a game I want to love. Perhaps "repeat same complaint" was unnecessary because yes you were asked it by many people.

However it did display, that you weren't unsure about that feeling during the course of testing, but your opinion remained the same throughout older and latest videos. My purpose was not to portray you like you were whining or anything.

Nice apology! I like apologies. Anyway, my only whining was directed at the tarmac, but that's been the case since Dirt Rally V2 - so that you can call me out on! :D

[ALF 8]

I'm sure Codies are already looking at this. Probably, a patch to fix it, it's already inclueded on the Day 1 Patch.

[MrDeap 12]

Alf72 said:

I'm sure Codies are already looking at this. Probably, a patch to fix it, it's already inclueded on the Day 1 Patch.

I'm not sure about it, unless it have been tested for months. Consoles need approval for updates & this take times, especially with the Microsoft One.

From years following Codemasters, they keep a good parity for release between ports.

[ALF 8]

MrDeap said:

Alf72 said:

I'm sure Codies are already looking at this. Probably, a patch to fix it, it's already inclueded on the Day 1 Patch.

I'm not sure about it, unless it have been tested for months. Consoles need approval for updates & this take times, especially with the Microsoft One.

From years following Codemasters, they keep a good parity for release between ports.

Well, at least, they are aware of " the issue ", with so many threads / posts, about this topic.

[Porkhammer 78]

SkiddyMcCrash said:

Have any of the people who are complaining about too much grip upgraded the cars, or are they running stock parts? My 2001 Subaru was suffering with the grip issue, it was bogging down 2/3rds of the way round hairpins, even with grade C parts in it. I upgraded it B parts and the problem went away, the car now gets all the way round hairpins.

I'm running B parts in my 2001 Subaru and the problem persists. To my knowledge, upgrading parts in Dirt 4 only increases their durability.

[SkiddyMcCrash 311]

Yeah, @KickUp just killed that idea for me in the Gossip thread.

:(

I deleted the post in here so I didn't look dumb, and you quoted it, totally screwing that up lol.

[Porkhammer 78]

SkiddyMcCrash said:

Yeah, @KickUp just killed that idea for me in the Gossip thread.

:(

I deleted the post in here so I didn't look dumb, and you quoted it, totally screwing that up lol.

You have the power to delete mine as well, you have my blessing! :D

[SkiddyMcCrash 311]

Nah, I tried to hide it and was discovered anyway. If I delete yours someone else will post one quoting you, quoting me.

:D

[SirPhilMcKraken 279]

Porkhammer said:

SkiddyMcCrash said:

Have any of the people who are complaining about too much grip upgraded the cars, or are they running stock parts? My 2001 Subaru was suffering with the grip issue, it was bogging down 2/3rds of the way round hairpins, even with grade C parts in it. I upgraded it B parts and the problem went away, the car now gets all the way round hairpins.

I'm running B parts in my 2001 Subaru and the problem persists. To my knowledge, upgrading parts in Dirt 4 only increases their durability.

Q-Q-Q-QUOTEDDDD

(plz don't ban)

[SkiddyMcCrash 311]

                                                                                                

[Porkhammer 78]

SkiddyMcCrash said:

                                                                                                

[SirPhilMcKraken 279]

Don't make me come over there. 

This threat is 9 characters too short. 

[Flash333 0]

I dont like reading that the simulation physics isnt bang on. I thought after Dirt Rally that woudnt be a problem. Hopefully they will fix this. I havent tried the game yet, but preordered and will try it on Friday.  

[dgeesi0 305]

Dirt rally needed adjustment.let people play then adjust on feedback.its the norm for games.

[PaloSamo 0]

I thought Kris and Petter were there to give feedback. I don't want to jump to conclusions too quickly but it seems that it was only a PR move... (I will shut up now and wait till Friday :) )