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Formula 1 2014 Belgian Grand Prix

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Okay, bit of a change of topic for anyone bored of Mercedes. Does anyone else think yesterday shows Red Bull have been shooting themselves in the foot for the whole of the season by always running with maximum downforce? The race showed they can run by far the slimmest rear wing on the grid and still be fine in the high speed stuff and obviously enjoy much better straight line speed for when they are racing in a pack. 

I mean okay, it may mean they sacrifice a little bit of overall speed in qualifying. But as they are always starting around the 3rd-6th place zone surely it's a lot more astute setup to go for.

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Yes, completely agree. I've been saying it all season, if Red Bull are in the pack, they are nowhere (until Spa) and cannot overtake and always get done over on straights. Yesterday was great to see, Vettel and Ricciardo actually overtaking on straights and not getting overtaken all race on straights

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VetteIfan said:

Okay, bit of a change of topic for anyone bored of Mercedes. Does anyone else think yesterday shows Red Bull have been shooting themselves in the foot for the whole of the season by always running with maximum downforce? The race showed they can run by far the slimmest rear wing on the grid and still be fine in the high speed stuff and obviously enjoy much better straight line speed for when they are racing in a pack. 

I mean okay, it may mean they sacrifice a little bit of overall speed in qualifying. But as they are always starting around the 3rd-6th place zone surely it's a lot more astute setup to go for.

*Cough* This new approach has really only worked out for one of their drivers so far. *cough*


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Mexicola said:

No, the team can blame Rosberg. The golden rule is don't hit your teammate, Rosberg willingly broke that rule.

I don't see how the team are to blame for letting their drivers RACE. What do you want them to do? Use team orders every race so there's no collisions? Just a few races ago Mercedes were being praised for letting their drivers race, now you're having a go at them for it?

You're damn right I am. You've got two highly competitive drivers who hate each others guts and want to prove a point. THIS WAS INEVITABLE. Did they honestly think that these two were not going to collide at some point? How stupid can they get? Your job as a team is to get the best result possible. They criticise their drivers for duking it out on lap 2? THEN DON'T LET THEM! They should have said "guys, don't do anything stupid in the first couple of laps. After a few laps, when everything has settled down, clean racing please.". They weren't told that, they weren't told anything and as a result Hamilton gets taken out of the race and Ricciardo wins. Daniel is only 64 points behind Rosberg in the championship, it's not totally inconceivable that if things go the way they are, he might well win the championship.

This is what you get for having two drivers being allowed to do whatever they want. Not only did it cost Mercedes a bunch of points, it's robbed us fans of a great race between the two title contenders.

I don't care if this isn't the most popular opinion, it's right. If you guys want to rip me a new asshole, go right ahead. I'd like 12.

I agree 100% @RevolvingPrawn

I think the reason the team didn't order them is they were hoping common sense would prevail and they wouldn't do silly things like that. I can't see them being teammates next year if it happens again though. If it had happened in the last 5 laps or so you could defend it as a desperate lunge to try to find a way through but not on lap 2. Rosberg should have backed off and waited for another opportunity his car's fast enough to keep up the pace and pressure on Hamilton as is he. So IMO there was no need to rush such a move. As Martin said after the race I think Rosberg knew exactly where to hit Hamilton in order to cause a problem as he did say the spot that he hit Hamilton there was a 90% chance the hit would cause the damage it did. Rosberg may not be Maldonado but he definitely took it too far there.

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Well, Horner already said Vettel had issues with the car as a result of missing FP2. Watch Ted Kravitzs note book if you want to know the details

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AMS97KRR said:

Yes, completely agree. I've been saying it all season, if Red Bull are in the pack, they are nowhere (until Spa) and cannot overtake and always get done over on straights. Yesterday was great to see, Vettel and Ricciardo actually overtaking on straights and not getting overtaken all race on straights

Yeah, Vettel was faster than Rosberg and Hamilton on lap 1

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Just curious here. When was the last time the reigning champion failed to win a race the next season (not including drivers who retired)?

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Mexicola said:

No, the team can blame Rosberg. The golden rule is don't hit your teammate, Rosberg willingly broke that rule.

I don't see how the team are to blame for letting their drivers RACE. What do you want them to do? Use team orders every race so there's no collisions? Just a few races ago Mercedes were being praised for letting their drivers race, now you're having a go at them for it?

You're damn right I am. You've got two highly competitive drivers who hate each others guts and want to prove a point. THIS WAS INEVITABLE. Did they honestly think that these two were not going to collide at some point? How stupid can they get? Your job as a team is to get the best result possible. They criticise their drivers for duking it out on lap 2? THEN DON'T LET THEM! They should have said "guys, don't do anything stupid in the first couple of laps. After a few laps, when everything has settled down, clean racing please.". They weren't told that, they weren't told anything and as a result Hamilton gets taken out of the race and Ricciardo wins. Daniel is only 64 points behind Rosberg in the championship, it's not totally inconceivable that if things go the way they are, he might well win the championship.

This is what you get for having two drivers being allowed to do whatever they want. Not only did it cost Mercedes a bunch of points, it's robbed us fans of a great race between the two title contenders.

I don't care if this isn't the most popular opinion, it's right. If you guys want to rip me a new asshole, go right ahead. I'd like 12.

I agree with the majority of your opinion. I do want to point out that I feel like telling them to race clean and try to avoid contact, even though it's the smart team decision, would not make the race/battle great. Imo a great battle is when both drivers aren't held back in any way and if they knock eachother off the track in the process, so be it, but it also adds to a great rivalry.


I do agree that if, as a team, you decide to remove those limits for two title contending drivers, you should take responsibilty when they inevitably screw up, instead of blaming one of them. 


But handing out guidelines on how to not hit eachother would ruin the fun for me. I, as a fan, want them to be as ruthless and brutal to each other as possible.

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Jiggy said:

I agree with the majority of your opinion. I do want to point out that I feel like telling them to race clean and try to avoid contact, even though it's the smart team decision, would not make the race/battle great. Imo a great battle is when both drivers aren't held back in any way and if they knock eachother off the track in the process, so be it, but it also adds to a great rivalry.

I do agree that if, as a team, you decide to remove those limits for two title contending drivers, you should take responsibilty when they inevitably screw up, instead of blaming one of them. 

But handing out guidelines on how to not hit eachother would ruin the fun for me. I, as a fan, want them to be as ruthless and brutal to each other as possible.

That's totally cool, I'm not denying that it would be most exciting to see them hold nothing back, but I think it's both stupid from the team to allow this to happen and disgraceful that they refuse responsibility.

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Fully agree. But Mercedes at that point is starting to remind me of Bayern Munich, so many leading personalities in important positions, who are all very opinionated on every subject. So eventually, it's a battle of the egos. Taking responsibilities for them must be as hard as Kimi Raikkonen turning down a vodka-flavored Magnum.

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Hamilton drives like a battering ram anyway, after he screwed Kimi in Germany i'm happy to see his car get damaged.

No he really doesnt anymore. You living in 2011 bro? Notehow he moved across to block Kobayashi at the same corner in 2011, yet yesterday he left plenty of room for both Vettel and Rosberg. Vettel backed out, Nico really should have conceded it and got him next time round with DRS. 


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EdMa said:

Hamilton drives like a battering ram anyway, after he screwed Kimi in Germany i'm happy to see his car get damaged.

No he really doesnt anymore. You living in 2011 bro? Notehow he moved across to block Kobayashi at the same corner in 2011, yet yesterday he left plenty of room for both Vettel and Rosberg. Vettel backed out, Nico really should have conceded it and got him next time round with DRS. 


Germany, he clattered into at least 2 people, probably more.





In both incidents he wasn't using his mirrors at all, 2011 and 2013.



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You just know someone has no good point if he starts digging out 2011.

But whatever. If my driver had less than half the points his teammate has and was 1-11 back in terms of race-results, I'd probably be pretty p***ed at the rest of the grid too. Kimi makes Massa look good, that sux.

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@KRTheIceman‌

Image 1: I'll concede that one

Image 2: Button left the door open and admitted it

Image 3: Bottas could have left a bit more room

Image 4: 2011 was an awful season for him

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Hamilton drove like a tit in 2011, but since 2012 he's really driven brilliantly. I can't remember any incidents in 2012 where Hamilton was at fault, 2013, probably that one incident in Brazil, and this year, that tiny mistake at Hockenhem.

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APR193 said:

I'm sorry but there is very little difference between purposely crashing and not avoiding a crash. Rosberg chose to not avoid the crash, knowing that if he didn't back out there would be a collision, which is in turn, purposely causing a collision. Should be dealt with the same way purposely causing a crash should be. But it won't. Rosberg won't be banned, whether it be by the FIA or Mercedes. Mercedes especially won't be allowed to discipline him too much, not the extent of a ban or anything

I disagree. What driver, especially F1, would knowingly force an accident/collision? It just doesn't make sense. People keep spinning words to suit there needs. He didn't intentionally hit Hamilton. He didn't purposefully cause the crash.

He simply didn't back down from Hamilton. And good on him for that. Racing means paying attention to your surroundings. Nico clearly challenged the outside, didn't have the line, and braked in an attempt to cut behind Hamilton for the next corner.

He literally misjudged his attempt to get behind Hamilton by 2-3 inches. Inches. At those speeds, and the cost of not only materials but PR issues (as we're seeing), no sane driver would purposefully cause a collision that would damage their own car...

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EdMa said:

Hamilton drives like a battering ram anyway, after he screwed Kimi in Germany i'm happy to see his car get damaged.

No he really doesnt anymore. You living in 2011 bro? Notehow he moved across to block Kobayashi at the same corner in 2011, yet yesterday he left plenty of room for both Vettel and Rosberg. Vettel backed out, Nico really should have conceded it and got him next time round with DRS. 

Vettel didn't commit to the corner as deep as Nico did, IMO. That's the key difference there.

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SynGamer said:
EdMa said:

Hamilton drives like a battering ram anyway, after he screwed Kimi in Germany i'm happy to see his car get damaged.

No he really doesnt anymore. You living in 2011 bro? Notehow he moved across to block Kobayashi at the same corner in 2011, yet yesterday he left plenty of room for both Vettel and Rosberg. Vettel backed out, Nico really should have conceded it and got him next time round with DRS. 

Vettel didn't commit to the corner as deep as Nico did, IMO. That's the key difference there.

First lap he went deep and had to cut across the corner at Les combes.

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Vettel was a lot further ahead of Hamilton going into the braking point. 

SynGamer said:
APR193 said:

I'm sorry but there is very little difference between purposely crashing and not avoiding a crash. Rosberg chose to not avoid the crash, knowing that if he didn't back out there would be a collision, which is in turn, purposely causing a collision. Should be dealt with the same way purposely causing a crash should be. But it won't. Rosberg won't be banned, whether it be by the FIA or Mercedes. Mercedes especially won't be allowed to discipline him too much, not the extent of a ban or anything

I disagree. What driver, especially F1, would knowingly force an accident/collision? It just doesn't make sense. People keep spinning words to suit there needs. He didn't intentionally hit Hamilton. He didn't purposefully cause the crash.

He simply didn't back down from Hamilton. And good on him for that. Racing means paying attention to your surroundings. Nico clearly challenged the outside, didn't have the line, and braked in an attempt to cut behind Hamilton for the next corner.

He literally misjudged his attempt to get behind Hamilton by 2-3 inches. Inches. At those speeds, and the cost of not only materials but PR issues (as we're seeing), no sane driver would purposefully cause a collision that would damage their own car...

Hamilton was given a drive-through penalty at Singapore 2011 for doing the exact same thing to Massa. So I can only ask why was Rosberg not?

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