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FUTURE - what to do and not

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I'm really disappointed when read of people suggesting feature like interviews , custom win poses or let doing final lap manually and so on for the future F1 games.
I mean, the main purpose  for codemasters SHOULD be one and one only: trying to make the ultimate F1 simulation, improving physics and damage model, car's impacts and all the point related to what is a SIM driving product.
Remember Papyrus and Geoff Crammond GP? They tried to push on the limit all of the above points despite the limited resources of that years.
Why I got the feeling that this concept is lost being replaced by trying to give a nice box outside without care of the real content?
Notice that I'm not saying F1 2016 is a good game, personally I really love on how much an event is close to real life (free session, warm up , safety car <3).
what I really want to say is better to concentrate effort to driving realism instead of other useless stuff - and yes old cars are interesting - but in the end there are others games like Assetto Corsa that cover this. The difference with these games is F1 series got an IDENTITY!!

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fstarred said:
I'm really disappointed when read of people suggesting feature like interviews , custom win poses or let doing final lap manually and so on for the future F1 games.
I mean, the main purpose  for codemasters SHOULD be one and one only: trying to make the ultimate F1 simulation, improving physics and damage model, car's impacts and all the point related to what is a SIM driving product.
Remember Papyrus and Geoff Crammond GP? They tried to push on the limit all of the above points despite the limited resources of that years.
Why I got the feeling that this concept is lost being replaced by trying to give a nice box outside without care of the real content?
Notice that I'm not saying F1 2016 is a good game, personally I really love on how much an event is close to real life (free session, warm up , safety car <3).
what I really want to say is better to concentrate effort to driving realism instead of other useless stuff - and yes old cars are interesting - but in the end there are others games like Assetto Corsa that cover this. The difference with these games is F1 series got an IDENTITY!!
yeah that's. all never going to happen too many issues to do all that.

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fstarred said:
I'm really disappointed when read of people suggesting feature like interviews , custom win poses or let doing final lap manually and so on for the future F1 games.
I mean, the main purpose  for codemasters SHOULD be one and one only: trying to make the ultimate F1 simulation, improving physics and damage model, car's impacts and all the point related to what is a SIM driving product.
It's not a sim; Codemasters have always said it's not a sim, and that they don't want to make it one. I'm afraid you'll have to look elsewhere if that's what you want.

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fstarred said:
I'm really disappointed when read of people suggesting feature like interviews , custom win poses or let doing final lap manually and so on for the future F1 games.
I mean, the main purpose  for codemasters SHOULD be one and one only: trying to make the ultimate F1 simulation, improving physics and damage model, car's impacts and all the point related to what is a SIM driving product.
Remember Papyrus and Geoff Crammond GP? They tried to push on the limit all of the above points despite the limited resources of that years.
Why I got the feeling that this concept is lost being replaced by trying to give a nice box outside without care of the real content?
Notice that I'm not saying F1 2016 is a good game, personally I really love on how much an event is close to real life (free session, warm up , safety car <3).
what I really want to say is better to concentrate effort to driving realism instead of other useless stuff - and yes old cars are interesting - but in the end there are others games like Assetto Corsa that cover this. The difference with these games is F1 series got an IDENTITY!!
Yeah its not a sim 

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Well.. I'd rather have more features that increase the feeling of immersion in the entire experience of being a F1 driver than increased realism in physics and damage. I do not get disappointed when people ask for things that do not concern me (I wouldn't notice if they decided to remove the online aspect entirely, for instance), because I know different people want different things, and nobody is going to get exactly the game they were hoping for.

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fstarred said:
I'm really disappointed when read of people suggesting feature like interviews , custom win poses or let doing final lap manually and so on for the future F1 games.
I mean, the main purpose  for codemasters SHOULD be one and one only: trying to make the ultimate F1 simulation, improving physics and damage model, car's impacts and all the point related to what is a SIM driving product.
It's not a sim; Codemasters have always said it's not a sim, and that they don't want to make it one. I'm afraid you'll have to look elsewhere if that's what you want.
Where did you read this? I'm just curious

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fstarred said:
fstarred said:
I'm really disappointed when read of people suggesting feature like interviews , custom win poses or let doing final lap manually and so on for the future F1 games.
I mean, the main purpose  for codemasters SHOULD be one and one only: trying to make the ultimate F1 simulation, improving physics and damage model, car's impacts and all the point related to what is a SIM driving product.
It's not a sim; Codemasters have always said it's not a sim, and that they don't want to make it one. I'm afraid you'll have to look elsewhere if that's what you want.
Where did you read this? I'm just curious
if you been around for a while people like steve hood, lee mathers and others who have been involved in these games have always said. these games. cater to a wider audience, shame because. there is also. a very large hardcore group of sim racers.... maybe someday. a limited. edition but it could never be by Codemasters... they dont have the money or enough staff to pull this off... plus it would require certain restrictions lifted by FOM that i doubt would ever happen.  

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fstarred said:
I'm really disappointed when read of people suggesting feature like interviews , custom win poses or let doing final lap manually and so on for the future F1 games.
I mean, the main purpose  for codemasters SHOULD be one and one only: trying to make the ultimate F1 simulation, improving physics and damage model, car's impacts and all the point related to what is a SIM driving product.
Remember Papyrus and Geoff Crammond GP? They tried to push on the limit all of the above points despite the limited resources of that years.
Why I got the feeling that this concept is lost being replaced by trying to give a nice box outside without care of the real content?
Notice that I'm not saying F1 2016 is a good game, personally I really love on how much an event is close to real life (free session, warm up , safety car <3).
what I really want to say is better to concentrate effort to driving realism instead of other useless stuff - and yes old cars are interesting - but in the end there are others games like Assetto Corsa that cover this. The difference with these games is F1 series got an IDENTITY!!
Actually Crammond's games where so great because he did also focus on things that you say is not important. he tried to copy real life in terms how a car will be handled after a crash or a breakdown. even if it wasn't perfect, the way a marshall did push a car off the track gave the game much more immersion than the dissolving of a car in F1 20XX from Codemasters. 

I agree with you, that it's important that they do improve in the aspect of driving. But it's also important that they work on systems that make the world, the track and all the things around the driver more real and more immersive. 

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F1 games are always gonna be a simcade never gonna be full sim. It's all about marketing f1 and making it a bigger sprt rly and the way to do that is to throw new cool features at people, and say oh look what we've done now spend ur money on us. I feel cm games would just loose sales if they took the iracing approach.

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Dirt Rally was enough sim for me. If they made F1 like that it wouldn't be enjoyable anymore. I feel like they have a good medium right now. They have options to make it more difficult and options to make it easier. That way almost anyone can pick up the game and enjoy it. I don't think CM would botch the whole title by making it a simulation. I agree with the iracing suggestion. Maybe that's what you need. 

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I think it's worth pointing out that the two sides here are not mutually exclusive. We have programmers that specialise in physics who make improvements to the simulation model, and programmers who specialise in game logic who implement features like formation lap, safety car and so on. There isn't all that much crossover between the two, so just because we have more of one doesn't mean that the other is being neglected.

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Ronage6 said:

Actually Crammond's games where so great because he did also focus on things that you say is not important. he tried to copy real life in terms how a car will be handled after a crash or a breakdown. even if it wasn't perfect, the way a marshall did push a car off the track gave the game much more immersion than the dissolving of a car in F1 20XX from Codemasters. 

I agree with you, that it's important that they do improve in the aspect of driving. But it's also important that they work on systems that make the world, the track and all the things around the driver more real and more immersive. 
Uh? To me that aspect is very much important , as well as all the work made for making pit crew realistic like F1 2016

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Eddy567 said:
if you been around for a while people like steve hood, lee mathers and others who have been involved in these games have always said. these games. cater to a wider audience, shame because. there is also. a very large hardcore group of sim racers.... maybe someday. a limited. edition but it could never be by Codemasters... they dont have the money or enough staff to pull this off... plus it would require certain restrictions lifted by FOM that i doubt would ever happen. 
Honestly I don't know how man people work on Codemasters, but I know Kunos (Assetto Corsa) is a  smart company with a few employees working on it, probably they don't have even enough funds to buy FIA license...
Sorry but I don't get it...

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tcco said:
Dirt Rally was enough sim for me. If they made F1 like that it wouldn't be enjoyable anymore. I feel like they have a good medium right now. They have options to make it more difficult and options to make it easier. That way almost anyone can pick up the game and enjoy it. I don't think CM would botch the whole title by making it a simulation. I agree with the iracing suggestion. Maybe that's what you need. 
Actually, there is nothing to make the game more challenging. All you have is just a difficulty option.  There is no options to increase the difficulty by managing tire temps, engine wear, ERS, KERS. Oh yea, they gave us fuel management and a rev limiter for the pits which was welcomed but still not enough. 

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coolieboy said:
tcco said:
Dirt Rally was enough sim for me. If they made F1 like that it wouldn't be enjoyable anymore. I feel like they have a good medium right now. They have options to make it more difficult and options to make it easier. That way almost anyone can pick up the game and enjoy it. I don't think CM would botch the whole title by making it a simulation. I agree with the iracing suggestion. Maybe that's what you need. 
Actually, there is nothing to make the game more challenging. All you have is just a difficulty option.  There is no options to increase the difficulty by managing tire temps, engine wear, ERS, KERS. Oh yea, they gave us fuel management and a rev limiter for the pits which was welcomed but still not enough. 
Still isn't hidden knowledge this isn't and never will be a sim. Other programs that can fancy your taste if you want a real car. 

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fstarred said:
I'm really disappointed when read of people suggesting feature like interviews , custom win poses or let doing final lap manually and so on for the future F1 games.
I mean, the main purpose  for codemasters SHOULD be one and one only: trying to make the ultimate F1 simulation, improving physics and damage model, car's impacts and all the point related to what is a SIM driving product.
Remember Papyrus and Geoff Crammond GP? They tried to push on the limit all of the above points despite the limited resources of that years.
Why I got the feeling that this concept is lost being replaced by trying to give a nice box outside without care of the real content?
Notice that I'm not saying F1 2016 is a good game, personally I really love on how much an event is close to real life (free session, warm up , safety car <3).
what I really want to say is better to concentrate effort to driving realism instead of other useless stuff - and yes old cars are interesting - but in the end there are others games like Assetto Corsa that cover this. The difference with these games is F1 series got an IDENTITY!!
anytime you mention sim on here you will get the comments above.  Comments about making it  sim like will kill sales. Wether thats true or not, the game is so far away from being anywhere near that tipping point to being labeled a sim or sim like, Thats not even a valid argument. They could step up alot of things in the game before the queston of it being to much sim even comes into play.

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kevinkirk said:

anytime you mention sim on here you will get the comments above.  Comments about making it  sim like will kill sales. 
Sorry but this argument can not stand ..
think about NASCAR game.. there still a community playing with NR2003 season, and yes, almost 15 years passed.
Think about Grand Prix legends, same situation as above.
The fact that an arcade sells more than a sim is a real bullshit, and project cars itself demonstrated the interest of people on it with a total crowdfunding.

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Mechanical failures, it happend again Today in Canada. Both Verstappen, Alonso and Kvyat had issues. Its part of motorsport. Not only by driving in first gear for 2 laps, it can happen anytime. I agree it Should be implemented as optional 

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fstarred said:
kevinkirk said:

anytime you mention sim on here you will get the comments above.  Comments about making it  sim like will kill sales. 
Sorry but this argument can not stand ..
think about NASCAR game.. there still a community playing with NR2003 season, and yes, almost 15 years passed.
Think about Grand Prix legends, same situation as above.
The fact that an arcade sells more than a sim is a real bullshit, and project cars itself demonstrated the interest of people on it with a total crowdfunding.
I agree with you. If anything the game not being more sim like is holding back sales. Not keeping sales up with some make believe huge number of players that only play arcade gameplay. The people playing and buying this game are allready playing the sim like games. The majority of racers are not even bothering with this game because its so arcade. Like i said, That killing sales arguement doesnt even come into play because codmasters could make a much bigger effect on car setup changes, and some more car setup sliders, Have a greater tire temp and brake temp effects, and add some speed sensitivity and other settings in the controls option and the game still wouldnt be anywhere near to sim like that for that arguement to be used.

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fstarred said:
kevinkirk said:

anytime you mention sim on here you will get the comments above.  Comments about making it  sim like will kill sales. 
Sorry but this argument can not stand ..
think about NASCAR game.. there still a community playing with NR2003 season, and yes, almost 15 years passed.
Think about Grand Prix legends, same situation as above.
The fact that an arcade sells more than a sim is a real bullshit, and project cars itself demonstrated the interest of people on it with a total crowdfunding.

I know some people will disagree, but I don't think PCars was realistic enough to be called a sim. In my opinion, the grip levels were far below real life levels in PCars. Even so, the actual physics of the game were very good, and it did feel like driving a realistic car, albeit with less grip - If Project cars could do this for so many different cars, I dont see why CM cant make a realistic game for F1, which has 10 cars, all of which handle fairly similarly. I would say F1 2016 was a step in the right direction though.

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I know some people will disagree, but I don't think PCars was realistic enough to be called a sim. In my opinion, the grip levels were far below real life levels in PCars. Even so, the actual physics of the game were very good, and it did feel like driving a realistic car, albeit with less grip - If Project cars could do this for so many different cars, I dont see why CM cant make a realistic game for F1, which has 10 cars, all of which handle fairly similarly. I would say F1 2016 was a step in the right direction though.
I agree.
Project Cars was made with a sim concept style, but regardless from the setup part is not more sim than F1 2016.
I'd like also to say that F1 2016 features many aspects from to "real life" (like I said before, pit crew, real FIA rules and so on), so, believe it or not, it's a SIMULATION (and yes, the driving part could be done more and more realistic).
Being more schematic, this is the actual situation on who's closer to "real life situation":

Driving model: Assetto Corsa
Damage engine: F1 2016
Real life competitions: F1 2016
Pit: F1 2016

So still sure about the edge line between sim and arcade?

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coolieboy said:
tcco said:
Dirt Rally was enough sim for me. If they made F1 like that it wouldn't be enjoyable anymore. I feel like they have a good medium right now. They have options to make it more difficult and options to make it easier. That way almost anyone can pick up the game and enjoy it. I don't think CM would botch the whole title by making it a simulation. I agree with the iracing suggestion. Maybe that's what you need. 
Actually, there is nothing to make the game more challenging. All you have is just a difficulty option.  There is no options to increase the difficulty by managing tire temps, engine wear, ERS, KERS. Oh yea, they gave us fuel management and a rev limiter for the pits which was welcomed but still not enough. 
A truly interactive Engineer would be a huge win. The usual 5 interactions really get annoying. I might be asking too much.
Simply telling you where you are losing time wold be great.

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I don't think enough people are giving credit and trashing it not calling it a SIM.  No it is not a full simulation, but this is by far the most "simulation like" F1 game they have had.  Of course not everything is modeled like the ERS and all of the settings for the car, but if you watch an onboard lap and drive the game the handling matches up.  They have come a long way with this last game and it seems like they are still going that way. 

Of course I have complaints and everyone does with any game, but they are on a good path in my opinion.  Maybe hold some of your opinions for next time game until you actually get to play it.  Everyone is calling Dirt a SIM but not this doesn't make a lot of sense to me because I feel like both titles are in the same space and its closer to SIM than it is ARCADE.  Id say prolly like 70-30 or like 60-40.

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fstarred said:
Sorry but this argument can not stand ..
think about NASCAR game.. there still a community playing with NR2003 season, and yes, almost 15 years passed.
Think about Grand Prix legends, same situation as above.
The fact that an arcade sells more than a sim is a real bullshit, and project cars itself demonstrated the interest of people on it with a total crowdfunding.
Yes, there is still a community playing those old games. So why do you think there are there no new versions of those games if they're so 'popular'? Because they didn't sell enough to make it commercially viable to make them any more.

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