Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

All Tracks seems generated and repeated...

Recommended Posts

Your Stage and automatic track generation works very very well for a version 1. I have no doubt that CM will continue to improve the tech for future titles and that at some point it will be able to generate stages nearly similar to as if they were hand-made. In the meantime, it does its job very well in D4.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They havent patched for thustmaster t300 I'm a year and a half on rally.  Why you think your stage will be patched is beyond me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Funny how @Bigsur is disagreeing with most people.
I've went through his comment history and it seems he was very pissed off that Codemasters went for a new title instead of adding content to DR.

I guess you have to accept it. He probably didn't played the game yet at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Some people had unrealistic expectations from Your Stage. No matter how it was like, they would have said it's worse because DiRT Rally had better stages. Expecting it to create stages like DiRT Rally, but unlimited is insane.

Remember it's the 1st iteration of tech, a prototype of sorts. It is still massively better than anything in other rally games. (Yes, including DiRT Rally. Rally is not about memorizing stages... simple as that)

However I do wish Codemasters could maybe add some new trackside objects & perhaps a few new tiles to each location later. Feels that it would be quite "easily" expendable, by adding a few tiles and off-track landmarks to the pool. But probably won't happen because it costs money to make.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm at about the 35 hour mark in Rally mode and you really do start to know certain combinations. There are only two acute corners in Spain—one with concrete barriers outside, one without. (EDIT: OK, and one in town too!) There's a series of sixes in a row that is always followed by a right one. There's a certain right three through gate in Australia that I either wreck on or go through in a wildly uncontrolled fashion almost every time…

So yeah, I am really hoping there is a provision in the engine for adding more road tiles at a later date! Like $2 for 30 more tiles would be something I'd gladly pay for. And not just one time either.

(And obviously new country DLC's are something we're all rooting for too!)
No they have to be absolutely free. They did a crappy job and now they have to fix it. I'd refund this game even as it is I would never sink more money into it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How about the daily's, weekly's and monthly's, are they freshly generated the same way so no one can remember the tracks? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Too many similar corners chained together in the same rallies. When you see a certain corner in a certain map, no matter the stage you know what corners are coming next. One that has been very repetitive that sticks out on Sweden starts with a right 3 over crest I believe? Just seems like sections of the track are copy and paste.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A real problem and very well explained in the first 6 minutes of this video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hONU4-LZwxk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
versedi said:
Funny how @Bigsur is disagreeing with most people.
I've went through his comment history and it seems he was very pissed off that Codemasters went for a new title instead of adding content to DR.

I guess you have to accept it. He probably didn't played the game yet at all.
Oh look, he disagreed with you.

I pretty much refuse to watch videos that have thumbnails as dumb as big letters and a literal salt shaker pouring his tears out. As repetitive as it is, it's not like it was unexpected, it's randomly generated, not procedural.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
versedi said:
Funny how @Bigsur is disagreeing with most people.
I've went through his comment history and it seems he was very pissed off that Codemasters went for a new title instead of adding content to DR.

I guess you have to accept it. He probably didn't played the game yet at all.
He's a bit of a retard to be honest. He doesn't comment on anything just spends his life on the forums clicking disagree or off topic if there's a post praising D4. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree, every track has a dejavu because all of them are generated.

Doesn't mind the number of the possibilities if the variations are very limited. You know all the sections after a while and the game will be lost its magic
Another problem is that you can't save the generated secion and send to your friends  to compare your times to each other. Meaninlgess if you are the only person who can run on the newly generated track

Because of the track generator algorythm, feels a bit "driving all the time in a pipe". That wasn't so bad in case of Dirt Rally with lot of crossroads and wide opened stages (i know that was the heaven for cheaters)

I could live happy with it if wasn't there Dirt Rally ...


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I've only done careerstages so far and it has been a hit and miss. There are some truly excellent stages but many other stages suffer from repeating the same stuff over and over again.

Example from the career
- A truly great YourStage in career: Spain, Vinedo Els Reguers
- Same corners over and over again: Australia, Sawtell Wood Ascent

I already explained myself in the Gossip thread but I prefer the limited content of handmade stages rather than the unlimited content of YourStage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This is the first uteration of "your stage".

Given time this will evolve and perhaps they will consider DLC tile packs etc.

I get exactly what you are saying but I also believe only a minority will even notice (or care about) the repetition.

Your points are valid though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What makes you think it will get better? The track content has been declining. It's not like they build up on existing content. They start creating stages from 0 with every game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i found some big jumps. spend a couple seconds in the air before you hear about that turn one coming next. but overall i like the track generator. it keeps things interesting enough even though i have seen the same couple turns multiple times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ZbP said:
Thing is, it just feels like some rollercoaster. I mean, it's missing that feeling you have at ie. Fourkéta Kourva in DR - extremely tight downhill section followed by diverse hairpins, which were not created for racing, but as goat path ;-) ...
Spot on, same feeling I get. I haven't spent long enough with YourStage and I REALLY wanted it to work. I feel like the more time I spend with it though the more I'll get the feeling of deja vu. I know it seems silly for me to say that after we only got 2x 11km stages per location in Dirt Rally, but they had so much more personality. I want to see them improve YourStage with future iterations, but automation of anything will only give you so much. The quality produced by human hands and minds can never be matched (hopefully they can get close though).

I feel that a better approach would be for the level designers to produced a 5-10km km^2 map in each country that has a network of hand-crafted roads (odd cambers, technical slow sections, mountain passes, etc). Different routes would be generated by roping off  certain junctions. That way they can have a few hundred stages per country of high quality/personality, rather than a few million/billion stages per country with lower quality and much less personality.

Alternatively, they should have something like how the towns seem to work in Spain. A lot more areas of interest that spice things up a bit that YourStage will sometimes pass through. Such landmarks would include the technical section around the military jet in Germany (Flugzeugring?), the famous spots of Powys that could all be linked together with the more random YourStage segments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If in the real world there would be such paths as in the generator, their builders would cure themselves mentally. For example - on a hectare flat piece of land generator may generate three hairpinned curves... Complete nonsense. Generator stick to everything but not to the real world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel that a better approach would be for the level designers to produced a 5-10km km^2 map in each country that has a network of hand-crafted roads (odd cambers, technical slow sections, mountain passes, etc). Different routes would be generated by roping off  certain junctions. That way they can have a few hundred stages per country of high quality/personality, rather than a few million/billion stages per country with lower quality and much less personality.
I reckon Walters Arena would work in that way - there's tons of routes available in there, Your Stage could take it and randomly generate a route within all the roads and junctions mapped out by the developers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Now,
8 days after I created this thread I can happily anounce, that I know now any curve with any crest and any dip. I just have to listen, which known combination is coming.

For me, the rally mode is getting more and more boring from now on. And this is really sad for such a great title.

Codies, maybe you can modify the track gen for Dirt 4 with the feedback and ideas we gave u. These suggestions will help, to get more fun for a longer time, I think.

I like the idea of the track gen, that u don't know what is coming, and it is still a REALLY nice feeling, if u run over a crest, don't see anything and u turn in a right 4 and just trust ur co-driver... amazing stuff...
But this won't last long, if u don't get this track gen to create better variations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think the problem is the bits that get stringed together are
1. Too few, they get repeated several times per stage.
2. Too long, they are not just 1 corner they are a few corners that are always together. Like in USA there is a puddle that always has a 4th gear turn on one side and a 5th gear turn on the other side. This needs to be split up in 3 separate bits - the 4th gear turn, the 5th gear turn and the puddle appearing on their own.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There are no 4th or 5th gear turns. Numbers after direction mean the severity of the corner, not necessarily a gear you should be in (this will vary from car to car and may depend on weather conditions). Otherwise I agree on your ideas. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I get that the generation is quite limited, and shouldn't be allowed to duplicate the same section twice in a route, but I really can't figure out why you guys think DR was so much better. I didn't really even play DR that much and going back after 3 months I still knew the track without the co driver every time.
I do kind of agree though that the sections could be made a bit smaller so instead of "There's that puddle, that means the next three turns are this" it just becomes "There's that puddle."
I think the problem with that is, they would have to REALLY work on the tiny sections and surroundings (since it's tiled) or they'd have to randomly generate the actual track, and then the placement of roadside objects/trees, which becomes harder to QC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Vannipo said:
Now,
8 days after I created this thread I can happily anounce, that I know now any curve with any crest and any dip. I just have to listen, which known combination is coming.
You still have to listen though, and that is what rallying is about. After the same ammount of time in DR I could have turned the codriver off and it would have made no difference.
I agree that the stages don't have as much character, but those characteristics also made it easier to memorise the stages in DR.
D4 is the first rally game with "random" stages (to my knowledge, def. the first modern one), and it is a system that now finally gives the palyer a chance to get that much closer to real rallying. It is a revolution in my opinion, sure it can be refined, it could be better (more tiles/tile combinations/"special places" for character). They could also have given us more freedom to play with parameters, but I am sure that the next iteration will build on what we have now and it is only going to get better from here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree, in the same track on Swedish rally you have several times the same sequence with the same error of the co-pilot who says right for left.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×