Jump to content
DIRT 5 - Chat about the game and get support here. Read more... ×
Christmas Period - Codemasters Staff and Support Read more... ×

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

[DiRT 4] Constructive feedback on the subject of car-feel and physics: The Ultimate Thread

Recommended Posts

Headlong said:
Vannipo said:
After watching many of this real footage of sweden, my first thought was
"Maybe, we just miss such flat nice roads... then maybe, we could drive like that..."

The average gamer would not be able to drive like that in real life even on perfectly smooth stages that were 3 times as wide as they are in D4. There are definitely some delusional people here who think that they're Colin McRae, or someone like that.  
That argument is just stupid. We don't need to be brave. We have no risks involved. We can be just as reckless as Colin. If we fuck up we just restart.

Are you going to use the same argument for all the people setting WR's in Assetto Corsa? They do the same lap times and even faster lap times than IRL.

And yes, Sweden in D4 is stupidly bumpy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gheeD said:
id really like to see such behaviour that i posted on video in real life. It doesnt make much sense to me and i hope you can explain with detail whats going on there.


also, why didnt you comment on the fact that rally cars slow down from 100 kph to 0 faster on gravel than asphalt. thats not right either and points to some issues with gravel surface which isnt restricted to dirtfish area.
Do we know what software he was using? It looked really interesting. Would love to have that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
its his own work. i asked for earlier version as i thought it was very sleek looking but he has further developed it since then (into what u see in the video of the braking tests)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bogani said:
Headlong said:
Vannipo said:
After watching many of this real footage of sweden, my first thought was
"Maybe, we just miss such flat nice roads... then maybe, we could drive like that..."

The average gamer would not be able to drive like that in real life even on perfectly smooth stages that were 3 times as wide as they are in D4. There are definitely some delusional people here who think that they're Colin McRae, or someone like that.  
That argument is just stupid. We don't need to be brave. We have no risks involved. We can be just as reckless as Colin. If we **** up we just restart.

Are you going to use the same argument for all the people setting WR's in Assetto Corsa? They do the same lap times and even faster lap times than IRL.

And yes, Sweden in D4 is stupidly bumpy. 
The argument is not stupid. Get the average gamer into a rally car on snow and they will not be able to do it. Full stop. Regardless of how safe it.

I've seen quite a few Colin McRae wannabes in rally school who thought that they would be able to drive the way they drive in games, but when it came to the crunch they ended up looking pathetic behind the wheel of a rally car. To say that the car was driving them and they were just hanging on for dear life would be an understatement. And I was one of them, and I'm not ashamed to admit it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SamRWD said:
redriot77 said:
Currently I"m doing an Australian evernt with the excellent R4 Subaru.  So far I had both dry and rainy stages too and it seems to me that driving on a wet stage is more comfortable and more fun for me in Dirt4.
Losing and regaining grip is much more progressive on wet surface, I feel more feedback what's happening with the car and actually I've got even some time for reaction.
I usually don't choose the best grade racing tires in other simulations: race tires have enormous grip. but the border of having grip and spin out is very-very narrow. "Lesser" tires with harder compound may have less grip but I think its easier to balance on the edge of grip, they loose traction at lower speeds but not that sudden like a race tire.
The more I think about the grip issues of D4 the more confused I get. :( Now I really don't know that is it caused by the tires, the differential, or the track surface, Or there is no issue, the game is perfect in every way, I just have to forget everything I learnt in the past 25 years about driving, and re-learn by the D4 way. :neutral:
I am testing Focus 2007 right now, I have found a setup that works perfect- it makes the braking distances really realistic (I had to tune my codriver settings to almost the most early calls possible), you have to plan braking points a lot. Also you can throw a car into a corner with weight transfer, also tapping a brake helps to increase slide degree.

 That being said despite the fact that I tuned everything (including differentials) to the extreme the car still recovers the slide by itself. After testing in wet Wales I can confirm you can do a long slides, but your front wheels need to be directed into INSIDE of a corner which is weird. The only RL car I saw sometimes behaves like this was Impreza 2007 WRC, I remember Peter had to go just like that on one of Super Stages back in the days.
So anyways- I think there are cars which work better than others, I tried tuning them to act properly, but even if I go extreme with setup the problem still occures.

I didn't do time comparison, but looking at things from cockpit view I am certain I am loosing time compared to default setup that... we all know how that setup makes cars drive.
I reckon Wales itself is inaccurate....driving with a Focus 2001 or Escort Cosworth in Australia has been super-fun, and the Audi S1 in Spain also...but no matter what I've driven when in Wales....hate it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gheeD said:
id really like to see such behaviour that i posted on video in real life. It doesnt make much sense to me and i hope you can explain with detail whats going on there.


also, why didnt you comment on the fact that rally cars slow down from 100 kph to 0 faster on gravel than asphalt. thats not right either and points to some issues with gravel surface which isnt restricted to dirtfish area.
What are you on about now. What cars are stopping faster on gravel rather than Tarmac? Has this been properly tested? Have all the variables been accounted for, such as setup, types of gravel, elevations, whether braking is initiated over bumps or compressions etc. 

By by the way, braking distances on some gravel surfaces can be surprisingly efficient. Only about 5% longer than on some Tarmac surfaces. Plus gravel surfaces can actually pull up a vehicle faster than Tarmac if the wheels dig in sufficiently. That's why there are gravel beds for trucks on Freeways. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Perhaps you should concentrate on the actual topic instead of telling everyone how wrong they are and how much better you know vehicle dynamics. Theres a video with good telemetry overlay some pages back.


We are all here to discuss issues within the game, and you fighting against everyone replying here is not constructive to this discussion. you are effectively killing it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gheeD said:
Perhaps you should concentrate on the actual topic instead of telling everyone how wrong they are and how much better you know vehicle dynamics. Theres a video with good telemetry overlay some pages back.

Is this video like the one you posted, which was supposed to show all that was wrong with the physics, but in fact ended up showing an extremely realistic and insanely detailed physics model that took an enormous amount of work to do what it does? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Headlong said:
bogani said:
Headlong said:
Vannipo said:
After watching many of this real footage of sweden, my first thought was
"Maybe, we just miss such flat nice roads... then maybe, we could drive like that..."

The average gamer would not be able to drive like that in real life even on perfectly smooth stages that were 3 times as wide as they are in D4. There are definitely some delusional people here who think that they're Colin McRae, or someone like that.  
That argument is just stupid. We don't need to be brave. We have no risks involved. We can be just as reckless as Colin. If we **** up we just restart.

Are you going to use the same argument for all the people setting WR's in Assetto Corsa? They do the same lap times and even faster lap times than IRL.

And yes, Sweden in D4 is stupidly bumpy. 
The argument is not stupid. Get the average gamer into a rally car on snow and they will not be able to do it. Full stop. Regardless of how safe it.

I've seen quite a few Colin McRae wannabes in rally school who thought that they would be able to drive the way they drive in games, but when it came to the crunch they ended up looking pathetic behind the wheel of a rally car. To say that the car was driving them and they were just hanging on for dear life would be an understatement. And I was one of them, and I'm not ashamed to admit it. 
He was reffering to in game, not IRL. You flip the discussion pointing out none of us would be able to drive like Colin IRL, which is true, but irrelevant as we are talking about a virtual rally car, not the real deal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No. and none of that praise of physics helps anyone except yourself feel better than everyone else. if you want to make such claims please elaborate in detail how that is. its only fair when you ask of others the same thing.

So far ive posted a video with the comment im really puzzled by this behaviour as i cant figure it out, asking for explanation and you ridicule me saying how i infact showed how extremely realistic it all is. Ive yet to hear any indepth knowledge about vehicular dynamics that you claim to know so much about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Headlong said:
bogani said:
MrDeap said:
It seem the @Headlong, @Porkhammer, @JZStudios, etc seem very positive with the current sim handling. I don't see any reason for Codemasters to tweak the handling as it is claimed to be superior & more playable than DiRT Rally. 

I'm from another planet & the current built isn't captivating me.

Being positive does not mean things can't improve.
Things can always improve. But I can forgive them (codemasters) if they don't rally feel like doing anything given that:

a) On the whole the handling and physics are superb and I'm sure they know it. If you watch the vid that Gheed posted of the car sliding the rear end and then getting a ton of understeer as the rear end bites and the front of the car hits the off cambered and depressed part of the downhill hairpin, and then as he gets on throttle he gets oversteer as the back of the car then hits the depressed off cambered side. I mean this is truly superb. The amount of work that must have gone into this is enormous, and that slow mo video of Gheed's could be an advertisement for how incredibly detailed and realistic the new physics model is. I mean show me a video of another rally sim that simulates surfaces, tyre grip at different slip angles, cambers, bumps and depressions affecting the behaviour of the car in such a realistic way. Go on, let's see it. 

b) Too many people here have repeatedly demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of vehicle dynamics. I really doubt that codemasters are going to take seriously the opinion of somebody who posts a video of normal and extremely realistic car behaviour and calls it wrong. 

And thats that. 
@Headlong
You know that there are some fundamental physics problems with Dirt 4.
Biggest of them all is the difference between longitudinal and lateral grip, which causes almost every problem we have in this thread. You have watched the video where i drive an RWD car sideways and the car just bogs down when there should be little to none of longitudinal grip.

You have said that you know how to setup a car and know what every setup change does. If you know how to setup a car, then you have to know that setting up the car means you are creating a balance between different forces that are affecting the car.

Now that we have this huge imbalance between longitudinal and lateral grip. Don't you think that affects the car setup?
To me it seems that now every good gravel setup in the Dirt 4 is about 90% of trying to get rid of problems that are caused by grip imbalance and 10% of normal things that you would think that you should do in a real life car.
If you would put some magical tyres to a real life car that have more longitudinal grip when you apply more gas, then the rear suspension setup would be much different than with a normal, non-magical tyres.

I don't understand why don't you want the game to be better?
This thread is 50% of you just arguing with everybody and that is not the constructive feedback the Codemasters wants.
Most of us just wants the game to succeed and wants to help Codemasters to make it better.
To me it seems that you are doing the opposite.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bogani said:
Headlong said:
bogani said:
Headlong said:
Vannipo said:
After watching many of this real footage of sweden, my first thought was
"Maybe, we just miss such flat nice roads... then maybe, we could drive like that..."

The average gamer would not be able to drive like that in real life even on perfectly smooth stages that were 3 times as wide as they are in D4. There are definitely some delusional people here who think that they're Colin McRae, or someone like that.  
That argument is just stupid. We don't need to be brave. We have no risks involved. We can be just as reckless as Colin. If we **** up we just restart.

Are you going to use the same argument for all the people setting WR's in Assetto Corsa? They do the same lap times and even faster lap times than IRL.

And yes, Sweden in D4 is stupidly bumpy. 
The argument is not stupid. Get the average gamer into a rally car on snow and they will not be able to do it. Full stop. Regardless of how safe it.

I've seen quite a few Colin McRae wannabes in rally school who thought that they would be able to drive the way they drive in games, but when it came to the crunch they ended up looking pathetic behind the wheel of a rally car. To say that the car was driving them and they were just hanging on for dear life would be an understatement. And I was one of them, and I'm not ashamed to admit it. 
He was reffering to in game, not IRL. You flip the discussion pointing out none of us would be able to drive like Colin IRL, which is true, but irrelevant as we are talking about a virtual rally car, not the real deal.
No, my argument is valid, because if you can't do it in real life then your conclusion that it's the physic's fault that's preventing you from inducing a particular car behaviour is erroneous. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

gheeD said:
No. and none of that praise of physics helps anyone except yourself feel better than everyone else. if you want to make such claims please elaborate in detail how that is. its only fair when you ask of others the same thing.

So far ive posted a video with the comment im really puzzled by this behaviour as i cant figure it out, asking for explanation and you ridicule me saying how i infact showed how extremely realistic it all is. Ive yet to hear any indepth knowledge about vehicular dynamics that you claim to know so much about.
Would you like me to show you why that braking distance video does not demonstrate any flaws in the physics, just like the other video didn't. Or are you going to be able to figure it out by yourself? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Trust me Bogani, its not THAT hard. Advanced techniques and understanding of car behaviour are of course, but i was getting mk2 fiestas sideways on gravel at 14 years old.

And this is where the issue is, the seemingly bugged loss and recovery of rear grip on certain cars on certain tracks. As mentioned in another thread, even with autobrake and all other assists off, the handbrake still applies when stopped. This is just a small example of what i believe is going on, some sort of buggy assist, etc, restricting an otherwise superb physics engine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Headlong said:
dgeesi0 said:
subaru 2001 wrong
escort mk2 wrong
sierra cosworth wrong.


thats three iconic cars.just briefly pointing out with default or set up changes dont help.there are others but its hot and regardless of how wrong they are i already know what is coming next.

the thing you cant glide through corners with such iconic cars especially for corners.says it all.ill support codemasters all day but dont say things are right when they not.foundations can be built on that which makes for a terrible future.especially when they not the righ foundations.

i dont even want to keep typing this as its basically 90 percent Headlong who is either a troll or a employee just saying nothing is wrong guys.the games great just let us tweak it so its dirt rally brilliant !
And if the people here demonstrate some semblance of knowing what they're talking about, maybe they'll look into those cars. But posting videos showing an incredibly sophisticated physics model that affects the cars in the most detailed and realistic way yet seen in a rally sim is not the way to achieve that objective. Nor is saying that parameters have been messed up, or that the physics are completely wrong because the cars don't slide on every corner the way they do in RBR.

In fact, do the following experiment: go to the Assetto Corsa forum and tell them that their parameters are all wrong or messed up. Lord Kunos will be on you in a heart beat, and you'll be lucky to avoid a lifetime ban. So I think codemasters have indulged some of you long enough. I mean there is such a thing as constructive criticism, but some of the things that have been said here are beyond ridiculous. 


earlier on in this thread we showed the real life counter part subaru 2001 donuting. i then posted a video of richard burns driving it through wales.so we have had real life videos showing the exact same cars on the exact same surfaces.apart from showing ourselves driving the actual vehicles (sorry but i dont have our subarus anymore)..what can we add ?

RBR has nothing to do with this. Mate has escort mk2 i do post pics now and again.its not like people are making it up, escort mk2 backend movement its trademark what its famous for.in this its mute.

what we could do with is like a spread sheet with all vehicles on then maybe discuss which dont do what we would like and maybe make suggestions for each vehicles then someone shorten it down to basics so the team could then maybe tweak based off it.

so first pg the list, possibly tweaks or issues.

damn its so hot and its not even 9am.

15 minute video of subaru on wales.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGtCYoBxp6Y

you need it to come round not go 80 percent then bite and straighten.first 2 minutes of that video shows all that is needed.



Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hawku0 said:
Headlong said:
bogani said:
MrDeap said:
It seem the @Headlong, @Porkhammer, @JZStudios, etc seem very positive with the current sim handling. I don't see any reason for Codemasters to tweak the handling as it is claimed to be superior & more playable than DiRT Rally. 

I'm from another planet & the current built isn't captivating me.

Being positive does not mean things can't improve.
Things can always improve. But I can forgive them (codemasters) if they don't rally feel like doing anything given that:

a) On the whole the handling and physics are superb and I'm sure they know it. If you watch the vid that Gheed posted of the car sliding the rear end and then getting a ton of understeer as the rear end bites and the front of the car hits the off cambered and depressed part of the downhill hairpin, and then as he gets on throttle he gets oversteer as the back of the car then hits the depressed off cambered side. I mean this is truly superb. The amount of work that must have gone into this is enormous, and that slow mo video of Gheed's could be an advertisement for how incredibly detailed and realistic the new physics model is. I mean show me a video of another rally sim that simulates surfaces, tyre grip at different slip angles, cambers, bumps and depressions affecting the behaviour of the car in such a realistic way. Go on, let's see it. 

b) Too many people here have repeatedly demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of vehicle dynamics. I really doubt that codemasters are going to take seriously the opinion of somebody who posts a video of normal and extremely realistic car behaviour and calls it wrong. 

And thats that. 
@Headlong
You know that there are some fundamental physics problems with Dirt 4.
Biggest of them all is the difference between longitudinal and lateral grip, which causes almost every problem we have in this thread. You have watched the video where i drive an RWD car sideways and the car just bogs down when there should be little to none of longitudinal grip.

You have said that you know how to setup a car and know what every setup change does. If you know how to setup a car, then you have to know that setting up the car means you are creating a balance between different forces that are affecting the car.

Now that we have this huge imbalance between longitudinal and lateral grip. Don't you think that affects the car setup?
To me it seems that now every good gravel setup in the Dirt 4 is about 90% of trying to get rid of problems that are caused by grip imbalance and 10% of normal things that you would think that you should do in a real life car.
If you would put some magical tyres to a real life car that have more longitudinal grip when you apply more gas, then the rear suspension setup would be much different than with a normal, non-magical tyres.

I don't understand why don't you want the game to be better?
This thread is 50% of you just arguing with everybody and that is not the constructive feedback the Codemasters wants.
Most of us just wants the game to succeed and wants to help Codemasters to make it better.
To me it seems that you are doing the opposite.
The longitudinal grip seems to be modelled realistically. The cars only seem to bog down on acceleration because the weight transfer is now modelled properly. So when you floor it you transfer a massive amount of weight to the rear thus bogging the car down. 

So you see, it's not that I don't want the game to be better, I just don't want it to be unrealistic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
eckertb said:
I have the feeling that the car's weight and the forces which it should generate (centrifugal force in a corner and also the pendulum effect when trying to do a scandinavian flick) doesn't affect the lateral grip in the right amount, especially when compared to the grip killing effect of wheelspin under full throttle.
That is true for rally and rallycross, for all the car types (2WD front & rear and also 4WD), and for both axles actually.
Right now the cars are very nervous when loosing grip because of that, the loss of grip needs to be more gradual and much more driven by inertia and not wheelspin. That way we would be able to balance a drift nicely with throttle, brake and (counter)steering.
If you watch some RL videos the drivers have to do a lot of work with the steering, throttle and brakes to adjust the angle of the car and it's speed "trajectory" while in a drift, this is only possible if the main driving force for the car's movement is it's inertia. I think there we don't have a natural balance of these forces.
Nice post... @Headlong this was what I was actually trying to articulate when I talked about lack of innertia/momentum feeling with the cars...thoughts?


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Headlong said:
Sho846 said:
Kris Meeke consulted on modern cars, but why do they not behave like this in the game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mDDq97tmzk&t=76s

There is tons more of Sweden onboards and footage to validate that Swedish snow and ice roads are far more loose than it is in D4.
Look at that innertia / momentum.....that's what is missing I reckon.
It's not missing in D4, it was missing in DR.

The more inertia a vehicle possesses the more difficult it is to manipulate it, and therefore the less nimble it is. Think about it. What's more nimble and changes direction quicker, a 400 kg dune buggy, or a 10 tonne truck? Of course the buggy will change direction quicker and will be easier to manipulate than the truck. That's why in D4 people are struggling to do the same the things they could do easily in DR, since DR didn't model inertia properly and the cars seemed weightless.
So why in DiRT Rally's Sweden, could I do exactly what that RL video shows, and can't really do in DiRT 4 Sweden?  Isn't DiRT Rally therefore simulating RL more accurately (for Sweden anyway), than DiRT 4??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bogani said:
Slowish said:
So last night I ran some tarmac stages in Career mode and there is a serious problem with the steering. Bare in mind, this is not anything to do with the game-FFB because I'm not using it; it's about the steering response and it's being slowed down a lot but, it's not totally clear to me if it's just the steer angle being applied way too slowly / the steering lock is wrong / a combination of both. The car was almost uncontrollable and had me scrambling to avoid oscillating from one side of the road to the other but, on dirt - the same car handled as expected with no lag in steering response detectable. This was the same car in a Rally even that has both tarmac / dirt stages.

If you have ever driven a Sim car using a wheel with game-pad steering delay - that's what it felt like. The steering response was terrible, delayed and sent me oscillating across the road in an attempt to stabilize the car. Whether this is related to game-pad filtering or steering linearity, I changed nothing in the control settings or assists / preferences.

I had this experience in at least two different cars so I'll have to confirm which ones but, the behavior is so far outside of logical that there can be no mistake, setup solution, etc. Yes, I did adjust setups and it did not solve the issue. This doesn't make sense and I don't believe for a second that it is as designed - something is broken.

I'll gather more info and details over the next day or so.

Yes, this.

I did go through each car on the first career Spanish stage last night and many of the cars do just as you describe here. You end up fighting the steering acting as a pendulum all through the whole stage. Like the weight of the car is rocking back and forth, back and forth. A bit like half the car is filled with water.

Not all cars are behaving this bad. Most of the 4WD Group B almost felt undriveable due to this. This behaviour is also the main issue I feel with the 2001 Subaru.
I kid you not, I had my first actual enjoying drive in DiRT 4 (during the Weekly challenge) the other day driving an Audi S1 (no change in its setup whatsoever).  The read slid out perfectly and the power delivery and brake balance was epicly fun!!  Gave me some hope for DiRT 4 (mind you I haven't even got to RX yet...just at the end of the Rally Career now)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Headlong said:
Sho846 said:
Kris Meeke consulted on modern cars, but why do they not behave like this in the game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mDDq97tmzk&t=76s

There is tons more of Sweden onboards and footage to validate that Swedish snow and ice roads are far more loose than it is in D4.
Look at that innertia / momentum.....that's what is missing I reckon.
It's not missing in D4, it was missing in DR.

The more inertia a vehicle possesses the more difficult it is to manipulate it, and therefore the less nimble it is. Think about it. What's more nimble and changes direction quicker, a 400 kg dune buggy, or a 10 tonne truck? Of course the buggy will change direction quicker and will be easier to manipulate than the truck. That's why in D4 people are struggling to do the same the things they could do easily in DR, since DR didn't model inertia properly and the cars seemed weightless.
So why in DiRT Rally's Sweden, could I do exactly what that RL video shows, and can't really do in DiRT 4 Sweden?  Isn't DiRT Rally therefore simulating RL more accurately (for Sweden anyway), than DiRT 4??
Because DR didn't simulate inertia and weight properly and therefore you didn't have to do very much to intitiate a slide, and once the slide happened it kept going for a long time pretty much by itself  without you having to do very much since the weight wasn't there to produce enough friction and therefore grip. 

The tyre model and how grip was simulated at depending on the slip angle also had something to do with it. 

So effectively DR made you think that you are Colin Mcrae, when in actuality you are not. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Headlong said:

gheeD said:
No. and none of that praise of physics helps anyone except yourself feel better than everyone else. if you want to make such claims please elaborate in detail how that is. its only fair when you ask of others the same thing.

So far ive posted a video with the comment im really puzzled by this behaviour as i cant figure it out, asking for explanation and you ridicule me saying how i infact showed how extremely realistic it all is. Ive yet to hear any indepth knowledge about vehicular dynamics that you claim to know so much about.
Would you like me to show you why that braking distance video does not demonstrate any flaws in the physics, just like the other video didn't. Or are you going to be able to figure it out by yourself? 
No, dont try to intentionally misunderstand me. Im talking about the video which i posted, not what hawku posted, where im doing a powerslide downhill and the rear abruptly stops sliding and front end swings straight causing me to fuck up the corner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sqdstr said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgYsRSETWfw

What do u guys think of his opinion?    
He's totally on-point when it comes to the deja-vu in rally stages....real shame....but wrong post/thread for talking about that so I won't comment any further.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gheeD said:
Headlong said:

gheeD said:
No. and none of that praise of physics helps anyone except yourself feel better than everyone else. if you want to make such claims please elaborate in detail how that is. its only fair when you ask of others the same thing.

So far ive posted a video with the comment im really puzzled by this behaviour as i cant figure it out, asking for explanation and you ridicule me saying how i infact showed how extremely realistic it all is. Ive yet to hear any indepth knowledge about vehicular dynamics that you claim to know so much about.
Would you like me to show you why that braking distance video does not demonstrate any flaws in the physics, just like the other video didn't. Or are you going to be able to figure it out by yourself? 
No, dont try to intentionally misunderstand me. Im talking about the video which i posted, not what hawku posted, where im doing a powerslide downhill and the rear abruptly stops sliding and front end swings straight causing me to **** up the corner.
The one where the rear end digs into softer gravel and loses a bit of momentum and the front of the car hits the off camber, depressed part first and therefore understeers, which effectively straightens the car out? What's wrong with any of that. Not only is this realistic behaviour, but it's also precisely the kind of thing that makes rally such a unique discipline and was sadly missing from rally sims until now. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Headlong said:
gheeD said:
Headlong said:

gheeD said:
No. and none of that praise of physics helps anyone except yourself feel better than everyone else. if you want to make such claims please elaborate in detail how that is. its only fair when you ask of others the same thing.

So far ive posted a video with the comment im really puzzled by this behaviour as i cant figure it out, asking for explanation and you ridicule me saying how i infact showed how extremely realistic it all is. Ive yet to hear any indepth knowledge about vehicular dynamics that you claim to know so much about.
Would you like me to show you why that braking distance video does not demonstrate any flaws in the physics, just like the other video didn't. Or are you going to be able to figure it out by yourself? 
No, dont try to intentionally misunderstand me. Im talking about the video which i posted, not what hawku posted, where im doing a powerslide downhill and the rear abruptly stops sliding and front end swings straight causing me to **** up the corner.
The one where the rear end digs into softer gravel and loses a bit of momentum and the front of the car hits the off camber, depressed part first and therefore understeers, which effectively straightens the car out? What's wrong with any of that. Not only is this realistic behaviour, but it's also precisely the kind of thing that makes rally such a unique discipline and was sadly missing from rally sims until now. 
in the first part of the description lies my issue. I believe the gravel physics are way too strong for these cars with improved physics. Real life ive never seen a rwd rally car have such behaviour, especially going downhill with much speed. And on such gravel surface as what was shown in wales tyres do not dig into anything. its a thin sheet of loose gravel on top of hard surface underneath and the tyre will spin on it kicking behind the loose surface gravel, but it wont "dig" into anything. That would maybe be the case in greece, which i suspect these surface physics are made for and not 1. changed for dirt4 and 2. simply applying same behaviour of gravel in rough greece and wales. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Headlong said:
Headlong said:
Sho846 said:
Kris Meeke consulted on modern cars, but why do they not behave like this in the game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mDDq97tmzk&t=76s

There is tons more of Sweden onboards and footage to validate that Swedish snow and ice roads are far more loose than it is in D4.
Look at that innertia / momentum.....that's what is missing I reckon.
It's not missing in D4, it was missing in DR.

The more inertia a vehicle possesses the more difficult it is to manipulate it, and therefore the less nimble it is. Think about it. What's more nimble and changes direction quicker, a 400 kg dune buggy, or a 10 tonne truck? Of course the buggy will change direction quicker and will be easier to manipulate than the truck. That's why in D4 people are struggling to do the same the things they could do easily in DR, since DR didn't model inertia properly and the cars seemed weightless.
So why in DiRT Rally's Sweden, could I do exactly what that RL video shows, and can't really do in DiRT 4 Sweden?  Isn't DiRT Rally therefore simulating RL more accurately (for Sweden anyway), than DiRT 4??
Because DR didn't simulate inertia and weight properly and therefore you didn't have to do very much to intitiate a slide, and once the slide happened it kept going for a long time pretty much by itself  without you having to do very much since the weight wasn't there to produce enough friction and therefore grip. 

The tyre model and how grip was simulated at depending on the slip angle also had something to do with it. 

So effectively DR made you think that you are Colin Mcrae, when in actuality you are not. 
@Headlong ok I'll take your word for it (haha).  Thanks.  Thoughts on this, I've driven the Ford Escort Cosworth (love this car) in Australia, tweaked the setup and I think it's quite spot on now.  The feeling of oversteer/braking/grip levels etc, but then have driven the same car in Wales and yeah it really felt unintuitive and different...like getting pulled off the road in understeer, having to use the handbrake to flick the back on corners that needed it...thoughts?  Do you think that's legit or unrealistic/buggy?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×