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[DiRT 4] Constructive feedback on the subject of car-feel and physics: The Ultimate Thread

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Sorry, what I mean is, where do you find where CM releases official 'statements'?  What thread do they converse on?


Check out my post earlier in this thread:

http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/comment/271209#Comment_271209

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Narzugon said:
 
Sorry, what I mean is, where do you find where CM releases official 'statements'?  What thread do they converse on?


Check out my post earlier in this thread:

http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/comment/271209#Comment_271209

Interesting. Paul Coleman says that in fact there isn't too much grip; it's only a perception stemming from the fact that everything is now simulated properly. 

But isn't that what Headlong has been saying all along? Why, yes it is, in fact. 

But the philistines, who wouldn't know good rally physics if it hit them right between the eyes, are convinced that there is too much grip and the physics are all screwed up. Plus codemasters messed up all the parameters apparently. 

Gee, I wonder who is right. 

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On a side note, has anyone here seen citroen racings new video? Go to their facebook page and watch the poland pre testing onboard video. Fair play to citroen, since the loeb days they sure know how to plant a car and get it sticking to a track, wicked video

This is why i only think there's an issue with a few cars, the physics engine itself is superb, i think a little patch with some minor adjustments and bug fixes, and some new tiles/ art assests for the generator (and maybe another slider to chose how open/ tight a track is) and this game will go from very good to a masterpiece

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Headlong said:
Narzugon said:
 
Sorry, what I mean is, where do you find where CM releases official 'statements'?  What thread do they converse on?


Check out my post earlier in this thread:

http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/comment/271209#Comment_271209

Interesting. Paul Coleman says that in fact there isn't too much grip; it's only a perception stemming from the fact that everything is now simulated properly. 

But isn't that what Headlong has been saying all along? Why, yes it is, in fact. 

But the philistines, who wouldn't know good rally physics if it hit them right between the eyes, are convinced that there is too much grip and the physics are all screwed up. Plus codemasters messed up all the parameters apparently. 

Gee, I wonder who is right. 
I guess you also chose to leave out the part where he also says they need to look at the historic RWD cars?

It's nice to cherry pic the statements that suits your agenda, isn't it?

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Headlong said:
Narzugon said:
 
Sorry, what I mean is, where do you find where CM releases official 'statements'?  What thread do they converse on?


Check out my post earlier in this thread:

http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/comment/271209#Comment_271209

Interesting. Paul Coleman says that in fact there isn't too much grip; it's only a perception stemming from the fact that everything is now simulated properly. 

But isn't that what Headlong has been saying all along? Why, yes it is, in fact. 

But the philistines, who wouldn't know good rally physics if it hit them right between the eyes, are convinced that there is too much grip and the physics are all screwed up. Plus codemasters messed up all the parameters apparently. 

Gee, I wonder who is right. 
LOL, so the real cause that cars cannot be pushed into powerslide is our perception only... interesting.

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@bogani; And you're leaving out the part where he said that any changes, if they do indeed take place, will come after they have been validated by actual drivers who have experience actually driving those cars in real life. 

Translation from corporate speak to everyday vernacular: we are not going to listen to the whining of a few philistines who wouldn't know good rally physics if it hit them right between the eyes. 

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Headlong said:
Narzugon said:
 
Sorry, what I mean is, where do you find where CM releases official 'statements'?  What thread do they converse on?


Check out my post earlier in this thread:

http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/comment/271209#Comment_271209

Interesting. Paul Coleman says that in fact there isn't too much grip; it's only a perception stemming from the fact that everything is now simulated properly. 

But isn't that what Headlong has been saying all along? Why, yes it is, in fact. 

But the philistines, who wouldn't know good rally physics if it hit them right between the eyes, are convinced that there is too much grip and the physics are all screwed up. Plus codemasters messed up all the parameters apparently. 

Gee, I wonder who is right. 
Haha 'Philistine'

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battfinkz said:
This is why i only think there's an issue with a few cars, the physics engine itself is superb.
Again, isn't this what Headlong has been saying all along? There's definitely a pattern developing here. 

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Constructive feedback:  Just been in Spain with the Escort Cosworth (Group A).  I think the little shrubs on the sides of the road in parts have too much 'mass' or 'density' to them?   I went like 5km/h over a little shrub (went off the road on shakedown and was limping back) and it put a massive dent/impression/crater in the front of the car??  Despite that anomaly, felt good,  the re-setting up of the car is ESSENTIAL.  Leaving it with the default setup made for a boring/understeery setup.  Happy that the re-setup made up for it (obviously not perfect but pretty damn good).

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Constructive feedback:  Just been in Spain with the Escort Cosworth (Group A).  I think the little shrubs on the sides of the road in parts have too much 'mass' or 'density' to them?   I went like 5km/h over a little shrub (went off the road on shakedown and was limping back) and it put a massive dent/impression/crater in the front of the car??  Despite that anomaly, felt good,  the re-setting up of the car is ESSENTIAL.  Leaving it with the default setup made for a boring/understeery setup.  Happy that the re-setup made up for it (obviously not perfect but pretty damn good).
What you mean by re-setting?

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DESMOPT said:
Constructive feedback:  Just been in Spain with the Escort Cosworth (Group A).  I think the little shrubs on the sides of the road in parts have too much 'mass' or 'density' to them?   I went like 5km/h over a little shrub (went off the road on shakedown and was limping back) and it put a massive dent/impression/crater in the front of the car??  Despite that anomaly, felt good,  the re-setting up of the car is ESSENTIAL.  Leaving it with the default setup made for a boring/understeery setup.  Happy that the re-setup made up for it (obviously not perfect but pretty damn good).
What you mean by re-setting?
Ok perhaps a better word is to say 'modifying' the default setup of the car's componentry

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I enjoyed that paul coleman interview but one thing i will point out is Kris meeke has driven a mk2 escort during rallies, surely he could have given feedback on the car, sure i know he must be insanely pushed for time but Kris certainly knows how to get an older rwd car around a track

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DESMOPT said:
Constructive feedback:  Just been in Spain with the Escort Cosworth (Group A).  I think the little shrubs on the sides of the road in parts have too much 'mass' or 'density' to them?   I went like 5km/h over a little shrub (went off the road on shakedown and was limping back) and it put a massive dent/impression/crater in the front of the car??  Despite that anomaly, felt good,  the re-setting up of the car is ESSENTIAL.  Leaving it with the default setup made for a boring/understeery setup.  Happy that the re-setup made up for it (obviously not perfect but pretty damn good).
What you mean by re-setting?
Ok perhaps a better word is to say 'modifying' the default setup of the car's componentry
Don´t have time/knowledge to tweak setups ... but love rallying ... so that will leave me with an unsatisfying understeery experience.

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battfinkz said:
I enjoyed that paul coleman interview but one thing i will point out is Kris meeke has driven a mk2 escort during rallies, surely he could have given feedback on the car, sure i know he must be insanely pushed for time but Kris certainly knows how to get an older rwd car around a track
I'll point you second thing.

"Limited time with rally drivers".

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If you have time to visit the forums and play the game surely you can spend a few minutes learning the basics of tuning DESMOPT? once you know what you're doing its like riding a bike, you'll never forget. Then you can get the cars feeling more to your liking and you can save the setup for future use

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DESMOPT said:
DESMOPT said:
Constructive feedback:  Just been in Spain with the Escort Cosworth (Group A).  I think the little shrubs on the sides of the road in parts have too much 'mass' or 'density' to them?   I went like 5km/h over a little shrub (went off the road on shakedown and was limping back) and it put a massive dent/impression/crater in the front of the car??  Despite that anomaly, felt good,  the re-setting up of the car is ESSENTIAL.  Leaving it with the default setup made for a boring/understeery setup.  Happy that the re-setup made up for it (obviously not perfect but pretty damn good).
What you mean by re-setting?
Ok perhaps a better word is to say 'modifying' the default setup of the car's componentry
Don´t have time/knowledge to tweak setups ... but love rallying ... so that will leave me with an unsatisfying understeery experience.
Yeah the default understeery setups of the cars certainly caught a lot of us off guard (including myself), especially those of us who love DiRT Rally.  IMO I think the default setups should have been a bit more neutral.  On a constructive note however, it does force you to learn and appreciate what the different componentry of cars affect things!!  If you're not really into learning, then perhaps just go with the 'Arcade' mode

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DESMOPT said:
DESMOPT said:
Constructive feedback:  Just been in Spain with the Escort Cosworth (Group A).  I think the little shrubs on the sides of the road in parts have too much 'mass' or 'density' to them?   I went like 5km/h over a little shrub (went off the road on shakedown and was limping back) and it put a massive dent/impression/crater in the front of the car??  Despite that anomaly, felt good,  the re-setting up of the car is ESSENTIAL.  Leaving it with the default setup made for a boring/understeery setup.  Happy that the re-setup made up for it (obviously not perfect but pretty damn good).
What you mean by re-setting?
Ok perhaps a better word is to say 'modifying' the default setup of the car's componentry
Don´t have time/knowledge to tweak setups ... but love rallying ... so that will leave me with an unsatisfying understeery experience.
Yeah the default understeery setups of the cars certainly caught a lot of us off guard (including myself), especially those of us who love DiRT Rally.  IMO I think the default setups should have been a bit more neutral.  On a constructive note however, it does force you to learn and appreciate what the different componentry of cars affect things!!  If you're not really into learning, then perhaps just go with the 'Arcade' mode
TBH DiRT Rally had a terribly neutral default setups too, at least in my opinion (eg. Scoobie GR A Boat?)

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versedi said:
DESMOPT said:
DESMOPT said:
Constructive feedback:  Just been in Spain with the Escort Cosworth (Group A).  I think the little shrubs on the sides of the road in parts have too much 'mass' or 'density' to them?   I went like 5km/h over a little shrub (went off the road on shakedown and was limping back) and it put a massive dent/impression/crater in the front of the car??  Despite that anomaly, felt good,  the re-setting up of the car is ESSENTIAL.  Leaving it with the default setup made for a boring/understeery setup.  Happy that the re-setup made up for it (obviously not perfect but pretty damn good).
What you mean by re-setting?
Ok perhaps a better word is to say 'modifying' the default setup of the car's componentry
Don´t have time/knowledge to tweak setups ... but love rallying ... so that will leave me with an unsatisfying understeery experience.
Yeah the default understeery setups of the cars certainly caught a lot of us off guard (including myself), especially those of us who love DiRT Rally.  IMO I think the default setups should have been a bit more neutral.  On a constructive note however, it does force you to learn and appreciate what the different componentry of cars affect things!!  If you're not really into learning, then perhaps just go with the 'Arcade' mode
TBH DiRT Rally had a terribly neutral default setups too, at least in my opinion (eg. Scoobie GR A Boat?)
Haha ok but less-terrible than DiRT 4 ahaha =D

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Headlong said:
@bogani; And you're leaving out the part where he said that any changes, if they do indeed take place, will come after they have been validated by actual drivers who have experience actually driving those cars in real life. 

Translation from corporate speak to everyday vernacular: we are not going to listen to the whining of a few philistines who wouldn't know good rally physics if it hit them right between the eyes. 
I didn't leave anything out at all. If you search my post history you'll see I pointed that out in the first place, that they are doing the right thing taking their time, using IRL drivers of the cars to gather feedback.

But do they really need to? The almighty Headlong clearly indicates absolutely nothing has to be revised or tweaked. It's pretty much perfection in it's purest form.

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Just to give my two cents, the first video below is me driving at the Phil Price Rally School in an Impreza WRX which was converted to RWD for the purposes of the school. As you can see, it doesn't take much speed to fling the car around and get the back sideways. A disclaimer, the front tyres were grippier than the back to help get the back end out for people who weren't as confident going fast probably and as it was a tight course. That car had zero understeer. I've also driven an Escort MkII at the Higgins Rally School which I can link my in-car if people want but its not as exciting but again, there was no understeer and there is no phyiscal reason why there would be unless the front was setup horribly or had bad tyres.

https://youtu.be/sRNm8L-ea-0

This second video is of the Dirtfish rally school. Look at the behaviour of the STI around corners and also the amount of correction he was doing on the in-car view at those low speeds to control the oversteer. 

https://youtu.be/GeC67b3AttA

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Adding onto the above Dirtfish video, compare the Subaru NR4 in D4 to the STI in the video. They behave very similarly and I would say apart from the rear tyres and overall lateral movement, its pretty spot on. This and the R5 cars are the only ones I feel behave the most realistically but the rear wheel grip across the board is definitely an issue.

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bogani said:
Headlong said:
@bogani; And you're leaving out the part where he said that any changes, if they do indeed take place, will come after they have been validated by actual drivers who have experience actually driving those cars in real life. 

Translation from corporate speak to everyday vernacular: we are not going to listen to the whining of a few philistines who wouldn't know good rally physics if it hit them right between the eyes. 
I didn't leave anything out at all. If you search my post history you'll see I pointed that out in the first place, that they are doing the right thing taking their time, using IRL drivers of the cars to gather feedback.

And good on them for doing this. After all, who wants to play are rally sim shaped by feedback from a few philistines who wouldn't know good rally physics if it hit them right between the eyes. 

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