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[DiRT 4] Constructive feedback on the subject of car-feel and physics: The Ultimate Thread

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Just to give my two cents, the first video below is me driving at the Phil Price Rally School in an Impreza WRX which was converted to RWD for the purposes of the school. As you can see, it doesn't take much speed to fling the car around and get the back sideways. A disclaimer, the front tyres were grippier than the back to help get the back end out for people who weren't as confident going fast probably and as it was a tight course. That car had zero understeer. I've also driven an Escort MkII at the Higgins Rally School which I can link my in-car if people want but its not as exciting but again, there was no understeer and there is no phyiscal reason why there would be unless the front was setup horribly or had bad tyres.

https://youtu.be/sRNm8L-ea-0

This second video is of the Dirtfish rally school. Look at the behaviour of the STI around corners and also the amount of correction he was doing on the in-car view at those low speeds to control the oversteer. 

https://youtu.be/GeC67b3AttA
The behaviour of the cars in these videos looks eerily similar to the bahaviour of the cars in a rally sim I've been playing lately. I think it's called Dirt4, or something like that. 

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Adding onto the above Dirtfish video, compare the Subaru NR4 in D4 to the STI in the video. They behave very similarly and I would say apart from the rear tyres and overall lateral movement, its pretty spot on. This and the R5 cars are the only ones I feel behave the most realistically but the rear wheel grip across the board is definitely an issue.
You only think that the rear grip is an issue because in rally school they gave you a car that was fitted with rear tyres that had close to no grip. Real rally drivers drive cars with very grippy rear tyres because they are very good at inducing oversteer with the brake pedal whilst taking advantage of the traction that very grippy rear tyres provide. 

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Hit right there on the head ^ .............in rallying the most important thing is tire choice ,listen to drivers after the stages:)

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Headlong said:

Just to give my two cents, the first video below is me driving at the Phil Price Rally School in an Impreza WRX which was converted to RWD for the purposes of the school. As you can see, it doesn't take much speed to fling the car around and get the back sideways. A disclaimer, the front tyres were grippier than the back to help get the back end out for people who weren't as confident going fast probably and as it was a tight course. That car had zero understeer. I've also driven an Escort MkII at the Higgins Rally School which I can link my in-car if people want but its not as exciting but again, there was no understeer and there is no phyiscal reason why there would be unless the front was setup horribly or had bad tyres.

https://youtu.be/sRNm8L-ea-0

This second video is of the Dirtfish rally school. Look at the behaviour of the STI around corners and also the amount of correction he was doing on the in-car view at those low speeds to control the oversteer. 

https://youtu.be/GeC67b3AttA
The behaviour of the cars in these videos looks eerily similar to the bahaviour of the cars in a rally sim I've been playing lately. I think it's called Dirt4, or something like that. 
The rear wheel drives definitely don't behave like the video above.

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When I watch DiRT 4 gameplay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foGe7Aeg458

Hovercraft oversteer at the entry, but push in a odd way. Kind of need to dive bomb with the front & floor it(they kind of stall at 3/4 of the corner). The back end yaw with little to no steering effort. With a model like that you rarely countersteer.






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bogani said:

I guess you also chose to leave out the part where he also says they need to look at the historic RWD cars?
Ohhh nonono.  AWD need to be looked at too, the RWD suffer the worst but the AWD have the same problems.  Some worse than others but they all do.

By the way, can someone give me some basic pointers on setting up the cars better than default?  I mainly drive AWD.  The default tunings are atrocious.

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Both my son and my daughter's boyfriend gave a few cars a try in Dirt4; both have RL experience in Suby's (BF owns a WRX) and FWD cars and both have driven them in ways I wouldn't even attempt.

 I just put them in a few cars and turned them loose in DirtFish, a short Rally stage, and Rx. I then just asked them what they thought about the handling.  Both said that the 2001 Suby should rotate much easier but, the overall tendencies were there - just not quite in the right proportions. Both tried to get the car to rotate on DirtFish and struggled with the car's over-steer and said that the real car is not hard to 4-wheel drift out of turns (once front-grip is achieved) on pavement - or dirt.

I then let them try the AMS RallyX Lancer (default car setup) and while it wasn't always easy to initiate turn-in, the car made much more sense to them - especially coming out of corners with a bit of throttle over-steer.  The variable grip levels can be more evident in AMS - using a game engine not even designed for loose-surface simulation but, the car handling using a default setup clearly makes a better first impression for players with RL experience. Surely, CM can meet that level - if not exceed it. Granted, it's not a Scientific data-based test but, neither is much of what has been argued here so far in support of the current handling.

This very test is not that different from how most Sim players would likely assess D4 physics and handling. I think CM are selling them selves and the community short by using such default set-ups. While a neutral setup may be safer to drive with a wheel, it's not necessarily the fastest for experienced players either. For Sim mode, there should be controller-based default setups available that allow for a decent first driving experience in D4 and that is certainly not the case - especially with some of the cars.

The RallyX cars are a blast to drive but, they also feel quite like those in DR in an overall sense. Why don't they have neutered default setups  designed for game-pads too? These kind of inconsistencies (lack of variable and apparent conditions in Rally stages) are puzzling at best. As it is, there isn't much I would change for Rx handling, and the AI may need to be a bit faster but, I need to try them at higher difficulty. Compared to Rally handling, that of Rx is much, much easier  - maybe be too easy or too intuitive. The part I really don't get is how Mr. Headlong can accept it as being realistic (?) when it's much like DR.

I get that the Rx car's have better P2W ratios in some cases but, really - they are totally different beasts in D4 and there should be more in common with the Rally car handling than is currently the case IMO - for what it's worth (zero in Mr. Headlong's case of course - we know, over and over again).

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Slowish said:
I think CM are selling them selves and the community short by using such default set-ups.

The RallyX cars are a blast to drive but, they also feel quite like those in DR in an overall sense.
 As it is, there isn't much I would change for Rx handling, and the AI may need to be a bit faster but, I need to try them at higher difficulty. Compared to Rally handling, that of Rx is much, much easier  - maybe be too easy or too intuitive.

Default Setups: As per Paul Coleman's statements in the Dirt Show he explains the default setups.


"We got Petter Solberg and his son in and they were able to spend alot of time playing Rallycross. I think we got very very good feedback from them and got very close to what the Rallycross drivers wanted as a group for their cars to feel like. And so were really really positive and confident that Rallycross is exactly where it needs to be."



"For Rally we didn't have as much time with Chris Meek and we only really got to focus in on the modern cars. Because that's what he has the most experience in driving."


TL;DR: They ran out of time and had to use a "generalized" setup. I assume this also means they will revise these generalized setups in the future.


RX: I agree. They are fun to drive. And to be honest, I'm more of an RX enthusiast than Rally. So I've spent most of my play time doing RX in DR as well as D4. While I agree they're general similarities between D4 and DR RX, D4 to me is a whole new level in the feel of RX. The cars as well as the tracks feel like they have more substance. Going back to RX in DR makes those cars feel like toys. Again, personal opinion.


RX AI: Agreed, "Tough" AI setting is strange. It's like they're sandbagging. You can easily out run them on straights but they can make up time every where else. I do like that they back off with not much fight if you make your presence known (shoving your nose on the inside of a turn). Overall I am pleased with their sense of when to push you and not.


Brutal/Fearless mode on the other hand can be challenging. Again, I think they have the right amount of aggressiveness (much more so than Tough) and are  fast. Sometimes the AI leaderboard posts some oddly fast times. But overall I enjoy that difficulty level.

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Regarding IRL rally drivers testing. Why couldn't Petter (and Oliver) give feedback on rally cars too? Petter has got such a huge experience in driving wide array of  rally cars. And they both know how to get that rear end of Escort MK2 where it belongs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sa6IMSuOgiY

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How cool is that! The ultimate Father and Son experience. That's awesome that Petter has his son calling Pace notes. What better way to learn than from the passenger seat!


As for them getting info about the other cars from the Solbergs. Good question. I'm sure the Solbergs have a limited amount of time to devote to the game. Perhaps that was used up in RX or other areas?  

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Narzugon said:

How cool is that! The ultimate Father and Son experience. That's awesome that Petter has his son calling Pace notes. What better way to learn than from the passenger seat!


As for them getting info about the other cars from the Solbergs. Good question. I'm sure the Solbergs have a limited amount of time to devote to the game. Perhaps that was used up in RX or other areas?  

I assume the licensing thing was done only to give a feedback on RX part.
Besides beta testers said the game had unfinished physics for Rally in november so it's quite obvious some things were rushed to get the game ready for release date.

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Slowish said:
Both my son and my daughter's boyfriend gave a few cars a try in Dirt4; both have RL experience in Suby's (BF owns a WRX) and FWD cars and both have driven them in ways I wouldn't even attempt.

 I just put them in a few cars and turned them loose in DirtFish, a short Rally stage, and Rx. I then just asked them what they thought about the handling.  Both said that the 2001 Suby should rotate much easier but, the overall tendencies were there - just not quite in the right proportions. Both tried to get the car to rotate on DirtFish and struggled with the car's over-steer and said that the real car is not hard to 4-wheel drift out of turns (once front-grip is achieved) on pavement - or dirt.

I then let them try the AMS RallyX Lancer (default car setup) and while it wasn't always easy to initiate turn-in, the car made much more sense to them - especially coming out of corners with a bit of throttle over-steer.  The variable grip levels can be more evident in AMS - using a game engine not even designed for loose-surface simulation but, the car handling using a default setup clearly makes a better first impression for players with RL experience. Surely, CM can meet that level - if not exceed it. Granted, it's not a Scientific data-based test but, neither is much of what has been argued here so far in support of the current handling.

This very test is not that different from how most Sim players would likely assess D4 physics and handling. I think CM are selling them selves and the community short by using such default set-ups. While a neutral setup may be safer to drive with a wheel, it's not necessarily the fastest for experienced players either. For Sim mode, there should be controller-based default setups available that allow for a decent first driving experience in D4 and that is certainly not the case - especially with some of the cars.

The RallyX cars are a blast to drive but, they also feel quite like those in DR in an overall sense. Why don't they have neutered default setups  designed for game-pads too? These kind of inconsistencies (lack of variable and apparent conditions in Rally stages) are puzzling at best. As it is, there isn't much I would change for Rx handling, and the AI may need to be a bit faster but, I need to try them at higher difficulty. Compared to Rally handling, that of Rx is much, much easier  - maybe be too easy or too intuitive. The part I really don't get is how Mr. Headlong can accept it as being realistic (?) when it's much like DR.

I get that the Rx car's have better P2W ratios in some cases but, really - they are totally different beasts in D4 and there should be more in common with the Rally car handling than is currently the case IMO - for what it's worth (zero in Mr. Headlong's case of course - we know, over and over again).
Mr Headlong has said on several occasions that he finds the RallyX cars in D4 way too oversteery and that he always has to make a lot of setup changes before he is able to drive rallycross. (The RX cars in D4 do remind of the Rallycars in DR, because all of the cars in DR had ridiculous oversteer and Mr headlong couldn't drive the cars in DR unless he made massive setup changes). 

Mr. Headlong has also said that he finds a lot of the Rallycars in D4 to be even more refined in terms of the handling and Force feedback than any of the RX cars in D4. But ultimately, even though Mr Headlong does find some cars to be more convincing the others, he is unable to say with any certainty why some of the cars that seem to behave a bit oddly, do so, and if they indeed do since he never drove those cars in RL.

Furthermore Mr Headlong finds it odd that people are still whining that the cars don't oversteer enough and that they don't wheelspin. Indeed that was Mr. headlong's initial experience after playing DR and moving to D4, but now mr Headlong finds himslef going for more understeery setups because He can now drive the cars the way they are meant to be driven, which produces oversteer through the proper manipulation of the weight of the car. 

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Is there a way to set a chosen user to ignored list, so all his posts are hidden for me?

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Meanwhile, in poland..... how did he get it so wrong? Far to fast 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d7l8UjlfUZw&list=PLVyRAt2cxbxsZOJGpC5OfWjli7bhYnB4B

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SamRWD said:
Is there a way to set a chosen user to ignored list, so all his posts are hidden for me?

Good. If more people ignore me, the less compelled I will be to respond. 

Ive already made it very clear that I do not wish to keep going over the same ground again and again and since then I've had a number of people trying to engage me by asking me questions and by referencing me in their posts.

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dgeesi0 said:
hes started talking about himself in third person the end is nigh :D
Hey, if you're allowed to post Queen videos in a physics discussion thread. I'm allowed to refer to myself in the third person. It's only fair. 

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Headlong said:
Slowish said:
Both my son and my daughter's boyfriend gave a few cars a try in Dirt4; both have RL experience in Suby's (BF owns a WRX) and FWD cars and both have driven them in ways I wouldn't even attempt.

 I just put them in a few cars and turned them loose in DirtFish, a short Rally stage, and Rx. I then just asked them what they thought about the handling.  Both said that the 2001 Suby should rotate much easier but, the overall tendencies were there - just not quite in the right proportions. Both tried to get the car to rotate on DirtFish and struggled with the car's over-steer and said that the real car is not hard to 4-wheel drift out of turns (once front-grip is achieved) on pavement - or dirt.

I then let them try the AMS RallyX Lancer (default car setup) and while it wasn't always easy to initiate turn-in, the car made much more sense to them - especially coming out of corners with a bit of throttle over-steer.  The variable grip levels can be more evident in AMS - using a game engine not even designed for loose-surface simulation but, the car handling using a default setup clearly makes a better first impression for players with RL experience. Surely, CM can meet that level - if not exceed it. Granted, it's not a Scientific data-based test but, neither is much of what has been argued here so far in support of the current handling.

This very test is not that different from how most Sim players would likely assess D4 physics and handling. I think CM are selling them selves and the community short by using such default set-ups. While a neutral setup may be safer to drive with a wheel, it's not necessarily the fastest for experienced players either. For Sim mode, there should be controller-based default setups available that allow for a decent first driving experience in D4 and that is certainly not the case - especially with some of the cars.

The RallyX cars are a blast to drive but, they also feel quite like those in DR in an overall sense. Why don't they have neutered default setups  designed for game-pads too? These kind of inconsistencies (lack of variable and apparent conditions in Rally stages) are puzzling at best. As it is, there isn't much I would change for Rx handling, and the AI may need to be a bit faster but, I need to try them at higher difficulty. Compared to Rally handling, that of Rx is much, much easier  - maybe be too easy or too intuitive. The part I really don't get is how Mr. Headlong can accept it as being realistic (?) when it's much like DR.

I get that the Rx car's have better P2W ratios in some cases but, really - they are totally different beasts in D4 and there should be more in common with the Rally car handling than is currently the case IMO - for what it's worth (zero in Mr. Headlong's case of course - we know, over and over again).
Mr Headlong has said on several occasions that he finds the RallyX cars in D4 way too oversteery and that he always has to make a lot of setup changes before he is able to drive rallycross. (The RX cars in D4 do remind of the Rallycars in DR, because all of the cars in DR had ridiculous oversteer and Mr headlong couldn't drive the cars in DR unless he made massive setup changes). 

Mr. Headlong has also said that he finds a lot of the Rallycars in D4 to be even more refined in terms of the handling and Force feedback than any of the RX cars in D4. But ultimately, even though Mr Headlong does find some cars to be more convincing the others, he is unable to say with any certainty why some of the cars that seem to behave a bit oddly, do so, and if they indeed do since he never drove those cars in RL.

Furthermore Mr Headlong finds it odd that people are still whining that the cars don't oversteer enough and that they don't wheelspin. Indeed that was Mr. headlong's initial experience after playing DR and moving to D4, but now mr Headlong finds himslef going for more understeery setups because He can now drive the cars the way they are meant to be driven, which produces oversteer through the proper manipulation of the weight of the car. 
The top drivers in the FIA WRX championship have validated the handling in D4, without even being paid to do so.

And I agree with you that cars should be validated by real competitive drivers and be as objective and real to life as possible. 

So in this context, it is exactly by your own idea and your own argument, that your opinion on the handling (specially RX) is not relevant.

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Sho846 said:
Headlong said:
Slowish said:
Both my son and my daughter's boyfriend gave a few cars a try in Dirt4; both have RL experience in Suby's (BF owns a WRX) and FWD cars and both have driven them in ways I wouldn't even attempt.

 I just put them in a few cars and turned them loose in DirtFish, a short Rally stage, and Rx. I then just asked them what they thought about the handling.  Both said that the 2001 Suby should rotate much easier but, the overall tendencies were there - just not quite in the right proportions. Both tried to get the car to rotate on DirtFish and struggled with the car's over-steer and said that the real car is not hard to 4-wheel drift out of turns (once front-grip is achieved) on pavement - or dirt.

I then let them try the AMS RallyX Lancer (default car setup) and while it wasn't always easy to initiate turn-in, the car made much more sense to them - especially coming out of corners with a bit of throttle over-steer.  The variable grip levels can be more evident in AMS - using a game engine not even designed for loose-surface simulation but, the car handling using a default setup clearly makes a better first impression for players with RL experience. Surely, CM can meet that level - if not exceed it. Granted, it's not a Scientific data-based test but, neither is much of what has been argued here so far in support of the current handling.

This very test is not that different from how most Sim players would likely assess D4 physics and handling. I think CM are selling them selves and the community short by using such default set-ups. While a neutral setup may be safer to drive with a wheel, it's not necessarily the fastest for experienced players either. For Sim mode, there should be controller-based default setups available that allow for a decent first driving experience in D4 and that is certainly not the case - especially with some of the cars.

The RallyX cars are a blast to drive but, they also feel quite like those in DR in an overall sense. Why don't they have neutered default setups  designed for game-pads too? These kind of inconsistencies (lack of variable and apparent conditions in Rally stages) are puzzling at best. As it is, there isn't much I would change for Rx handling, and the AI may need to be a bit faster but, I need to try them at higher difficulty. Compared to Rally handling, that of Rx is much, much easier  - maybe be too easy or too intuitive. The part I really don't get is how Mr. Headlong can accept it as being realistic (?) when it's much like DR.

I get that the Rx car's have better P2W ratios in some cases but, really - they are totally different beasts in D4 and there should be more in common with the Rally car handling than is currently the case IMO - for what it's worth (zero in Mr. Headlong's case of course - we know, over and over again).
Mr Headlong has said on several occasions that he finds the RallyX cars in D4 way too oversteery and that he always has to make a lot of setup changes before he is able to drive rallycross. (The RX cars in D4 do remind of the Rallycars in DR, because all of the cars in DR had ridiculous oversteer and Mr headlong couldn't drive the cars in DR unless he made massive setup changes). 

Mr. Headlong has also said that he finds a lot of the Rallycars in D4 to be even more refined in terms of the handling and Force feedback than any of the RX cars in D4. But ultimately, even though Mr Headlong does find some cars to be more convincing the others, he is unable to say with any certainty why some of the cars that seem to behave a bit oddly, do so, and if they indeed do since he never drove those cars in RL.

Furthermore Mr Headlong finds it odd that people are still whining that the cars don't oversteer enough and that they don't wheelspin. Indeed that was Mr. headlong's initial experience after playing DR and moving to D4, but now mr Headlong finds himslef going for more understeery setups because He can now drive the cars the way they are meant to be driven, which produces oversteer through the proper manipulation of the weight of the car. 
The top drivers in the FIA WRX championship have validated the handling in D4, without even being paid to do so.

And I agree with you that cars should be validated by real competitive drivers and be as objective and real to life as possible. 

So in this context, it is exactly by your own idea and your own argument, that your opinion on the handling (specially RX) is not relevant.

Exactly what I have said about four times now. The issue here is, and always has been, about philistines who wouldn't know good rally physics if it hit them right between the eyes, making the most noise about how the physics in D4 are all screwed up and how all the parameters have all been messed up, apparently, 

I repeat, I hope for the last time, that I do not want to play a rally sim that has been shaped by the uninformed, and sometimes even contradictory, opinions and conjectures of a few whiny gamers. 

So now that we agree, I expect you to hit that "agree button".  ;)

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I will not hit the agree button on someone who is unjustly throwing around insults like "philistine" on people with legitimate concerns with the game.

What we agree on are fundamentals, that is that the game should be validated by real life competitive drivers, engineers, etc and be as close to real life as possible. But our conclusions are very different.

I think the RX cars handle great in default setup, you do not (even though its been validated by WRX professionals).
I think the rally physics need much more work (even though its better than DR mostly), you do not.

Even Paul Coleman mentioned these same things as I have.

So do you really want Codemasters to make their own best judgement, or do you want them to listen to YOUR "noise" about how the rally handling is more refined than the RX handling?

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Sho846 said:
I will not hit the agree button on someone who is unjustly throwing around insults like "philistine" on people with legitimate concerns with the game.

What we agree on are fundamentals, that is that the game should be validated by real life competitive drivers, engineers, etc and be as close to real life as possible. But our conclusions are very different.

I think the RX cars handle great in default setup, you do not (even though its been validated by WRX professionals).
I think the rally physics need much more work (even though its better than DR mostly), you do not.

Even Paul Coleman mentioned these same things as I have.

So do you really want Codemasters to make their own best judgement, or do you want them to listen to YOUR "noise" about how the rally handling is more refined than the RX handling?
Paul Coleman never said that rally physics need much more work. He said that they are not as close to perfection as the RX physics. He even said that the rally physics now simulate things properly.

At the end of the day the RX and rally physics are fundamentally the same, and I don't see a singele person here who is capable of helping Codies to polish the rally physics to a high sheen of perfection.

Sorry. 

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Thanks for the tip @dgeesi0 on the self aligning torque for the pendulum effect I was getting. It's way better now that I've lowered it quite a bit. I actually find I'm doing better with most of the cars now that I changed it.

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Headlong said:
Sho846 said:
I will not hit the agree button on someone who is unjustly throwing around insults like "philistine" on people with legitimate concerns with the game.

What we agree on are fundamentals, that is that the game should be validated by real life competitive drivers, engineers, etc and be as close to real life as possible. But our conclusions are very different.

I think the RX cars handle great in default setup, you do not (even though its been validated by WRX professionals).
I think the rally physics need much more work (even though its better than DR mostly), you do not.

Even Paul Coleman mentioned these same things as I have.

So do you really want Codemasters to make their own best judgement, or do you want them to listen to YOUR "noise" about how the rally handling is more refined than the RX handling?
Paul Coleman never said that rally physics need much more work. He said that they are not as close to perfection as the RX physics. He even said that the rally physics now simulate things properly.

At the end of the day the RX and rally physics are fundamentally the same, and I don't see a singele person here who is capable of helping Codies to polish the rally physics to a high sheen of perfection.

Sorry. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTOiHCh3ctc
Watch the video and explain how the physics are perfect, when every car on Dirt 4 stops on every surface almost as fast as LMP1 car on tarmac?
You can even use the reverse gear at full throttle to stop the car almost as fast as with brakes. 

Porsche 919 Hybrid braking distances:
http://fastestlaps.com/models/porsche-919-hybrid-mk-ii

To me it seems that Codies are still working on rally physics and every surface/tyre models that we have now are based on RX.
It is causing problems with cars which are not setup to withstand high tyre forces.
RX supercars are only cars in the game that are designed to those kind forces. Real-life RX supercar accelerates from 0 to 100kmh in 1.9 seconds, so the stopping time of under 2 seconds is realistic.

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battfinkz said:
Meanwhile, in poland..... how did he get it so wrong? Far to fast 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d7l8UjlfUZw&list=PLVyRAt2cxbxsZOJGpC5OfWjli7bhYnB4B
Ypres isn't in Poland ;)

It's in Belgium.

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hawku0 said:
Headlong said:
Sho846 said:
I will not hit the agree button on someone who is unjustly throwing around insults like "philistine" on people with legitimate concerns with the game.

What we agree on are fundamentals, that is that the game should be validated by real life competitive drivers, engineers, etc and be as close to real life as possible. But our conclusions are very different.

I think the RX cars handle great in default setup, you do not (even though its been validated by WRX professionals).
I think the rally physics need much more work (even though its better than DR mostly), you do not.

Even Paul Coleman mentioned these same things as I have.

So do you really want Codemasters to make their own best judgement, or do you want them to listen to YOUR "noise" about how the rally handling is more refined than the RX handling?
Paul Coleman never said that rally physics need much more work. He said that they are not as close to perfection as the RX physics. He even said that the rally physics now simulate things properly.

At the end of the day the RX and rally physics are fundamentally the same, and I don't see a singele person here who is capable of helping Codies to polish the rally physics to a high sheen of perfection.

Sorry. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTOiHCh3ctc
Watch the video and explain how the physics are perfect, when every car on Dirt 4 stops on every surface almost as fast as LMP1 car on tarmac?
You can even use the reverse gear at full throttle to stop the car almost as fast as with brakes. 

Porsche 919 Hybrid braking distances:
http://fastestlaps.com/models/porsche-919-hybrid-mk-ii

To me it seems that Codies are still working on rally physics and every surface/tyre models that we have now are based on RX.
It is causing problems with cars which are not setup to withstand high tyre forces.
RX supercars are only cars in the game that are designed to those kind forces. Real-life RX supercar accelerates from 0 to 100kmh in 1.9 seconds, so the stopping time of under 2 seconds is realistic.
Do you have the exact figures for how much off the stopping distances are?

Rally cars don't have particularly long braking distances. They can stop from 100kph in under 50 metres, or in just over 2 seconds. Deep, heavy gravel can also sometimes shorten the stopping distance even further. 

Also do you have the exact figures for braking distances on snow tyres?

Ive just driven the Lancia 037 in Australia and the braking distances there seem very long. I'm having to intitiate braking about 3-4 seconds, or about 100-150 meters, before the tight acute hairpins, which I approach at about 150-170 kph. The braking distances don't seem off to me there at all. Plus Im finding it very easy to lock up and unsettle the car under braking. Losing the rear is especially easy to do. 

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