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[DiRT 4] Constructive feedback on the subject of car-feel and physics: The Ultimate Thread

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The stopping distances in that video is akin to Formula 1 cars. You're just a delusional contrarian.

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chukonu said:
The stopping distances in that video is akin to Formula 1 cars. You're just a delusional contrarian.
A modern rally car can come to a full stop from100 kph in around 30 meters on Tarmac. On gravel that distance can be between 20-45 percent longer. I really don't understand why you guys think that rally cars have such massively long braking distances. It simply isn't the case.

Why don't you guys give it a rest already. Just play the damn game and have fun. That's what I'm doing. 

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Headlong said:
chukonu said:
The stopping distances in that video is akin to Formula 1 cars. You're just a delusional contrarian.
A modern rally car can come to a full stop from100 kph in around 30 meters on Tarmac. On gravel that distance can be between 20-45 percent longer. I really don't understand why you guys think that rally cars have such massively long braking distances. It simply isn't the case.

Why don't you guys give it a rest already. Just play the damn game and have fun. That's what I'm doing. 
How long are distances shown in D4 footage?

"WRC cars can brake from 100 km/h to 0 over distance of around 30 meters in under 2 seconds"
Headlong, 2017 AD

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SamRWD said:
Headlong said:
chukonu said:
The stopping distances in that video is akin to Formula 1 cars. You're just a delusional contrarian.
A modern rally car can come to a full stop from100 kph in around 30 meters on Tarmac. On gravel that distance can be between 20-45 percent longer. I really don't understand why you guys think that rally cars have such massively long braking distances. It simply isn't the case.

Why don't you guys give it a rest already. Just play the damn game and have fun. That's what I'm doing. 
How long are distances shown in D4 footage?

"WRC cars can brake from 100 km/h to 0 over distance of around 30 meters in under 2 seconds"
Headlong, 2017 AD

I don't know, you tell me. If you wish to compile a list of all the braking distances of all the cars in D4 vs the same cars in real life on similar surfaces and on the same tyres and send it off to codemasters, go ahead. That will learn 'em. :D 

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Headlong said:
SamRWD said:
Headlong said:
chukonu said:
The stopping distances in that video is akin to Formula 1 cars. You're just a delusional contrarian.
A modern rally car can come to a full stop from100 kph in around 30 meters on Tarmac. On gravel that distance can be between 20-45 percent longer. I really don't understand why you guys think that rally cars have such massively long braking distances. It simply isn't the case.

Why don't you guys give it a rest already. Just play the damn game and have fun. That's what I'm doing. 
How long are distances shown in D4 footage?

"WRC cars can brake from 100 km/h to 0 over distance of around 30 meters in under 2 seconds"
Headlong, 2017 AD

I don't know, you tell me. If you wish to compile a list of all the braking distances of all the cars in D4 vs the same cars in real life on similar surfaces and on the same tyres and send it off to codemasters, go ahead. That will learn 'em. :D 
Nah, I would rather take 4 driving lessons and redefine physics.

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SamRWD said:
Headlong said:
SamRWD said:
Headlong said:
chukonu said:
The stopping distances in that video is akin to Formula 1 cars. You're just a delusional contrarian.
A modern rally car can come to a full stop from100 kph in around 30 meters on Tarmac. On gravel that distance can be between 20-45 percent longer. I really don't understand why you guys think that rally cars have such massively long braking distances. It simply isn't the case.

Why don't you guys give it a rest already. Just play the damn game and have fun. That's what I'm doing. 
How long are distances shown in D4 footage?

"WRC cars can brake from 100 km/h to 0 over distance of around 30 meters in under 2 seconds"
Headlong, 2017 AD

I don't know, you tell me. If you wish to compile a list of all the braking distances of all the cars in D4 vs the same cars in real life on similar surfaces and on the same tyres and send it off to codemasters, go ahead. That will learn 'em. :D 
Nah, I would rather take 4 driving lessons and redefine physics.
Whatever makes you happy. 

I know what I'll be doing. I'll be playing the game and having a blast. It seems that the more I play the better I get, and the bigger the blast.  

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Will see how good the Tarmac physics are,come September(P2)
til then I'm trying to relearn driving physics on asphalt the Codie's way;)
It ain't easy.Did they chime in yet after we nagged them for two weeks?
At least in Dirt early days we had some communications.

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Headlong said:

Do you have the exact figures for how much off the stopping distances are?

Rally cars don't have particularly long braking distances. They can stop from 100kph in under 50 metres, or in just over 2 seconds. Deep, heavy gravel can also sometimes shorten the stopping distance even further. 

Also do you have the exact figures for braking distances on snow tyres?

Ive just driven the Lancia 037 in Australia and the braking distances there seem very long. I'm having to intitiate braking about 3-4 seconds, or about 100-150 meters, before the tight acute hairpins, which I approach at about 150-170 kph. The braking distances don't seem off to me there at all. Plus Im finding it very easy to lock up and unsettle the car under braking. Losing the rear is especially easy to do. 
If you want the exact figures then watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3dV4CuR04g

I added two different distance measurements to the 100-0 kmh display and both are showing 25 meter stopping distances.
You can view the video frame by frame and look at the telemetry values.
If you still want to argue those numbers, then you have to say that the physics are wrong.

"I'm having to intitiate braking about 3-4 seconds, or about 100-150 meters, before the tight acute hairpins, which I approach at about 150-170 kph".
Stopping from 150-170 km/h to 0 km/h in 3-4 seconds requires about the same deacceleration rate as stopping from 100 to 0 km/h.
100-0 km/h in 2s, 150-0 km/h in 3s and 200-0 km/h in 4s all have the same deacceleration rate.

From 100 km/h or 27.7778 m/s to 0 km/h in 2 seconds means average deacceleration rate of 13.888 m/s^2 and that is 1.416 G's.

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hawku0 said:
Headlong said:

Do you have the exact figures for how much off the stopping distances are?

Rally cars don't have particularly long braking distances. They can stop from 100kph in under 50 metres, or in just over 2 seconds. Deep, heavy gravel can also sometimes shorten the stopping distance even further. 

Also do you have the exact figures for braking distances on snow tyres?

Ive just driven the Lancia 037 in Australia and the braking distances there seem very long. I'm having to intitiate braking about 3-4 seconds, or about 100-150 meters, before the tight acute hairpins, which I approach at about 150-170 kph. The braking distances don't seem off to me there at all. Plus Im finding it very easy to lock up and unsettle the car under braking. Losing the rear is especially easy to do. 
If you want the exact figures then watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3dV4CuR04g

I added two different distance measurements to the 100-0 kmh display and both are showing 25 meter stopping distances.
You can view the video frame by frame and look at the telemetry values.
If you still want to argue those numbers, then you have to say that the physics are wrong.

"I'm having to intitiate braking about 3-4 seconds, or about 100-150 meters, before the tight acute hairpins, which I approach at about 150-170 kph".
Stopping from 150-170 km/h to 0 km/h in 3-4 seconds requires about the same deacceleration rate as stopping from 100 to 0 km/h.
100-0 km/h in 2s, 150-0 km/h in 3s and 200-0 km/h in 4s all have the same deacceleration rate.

From 100 km/h or 27.7778 m/s to 0 km/h in 2 seconds means average deacceleration rate of 13.888 m/s^2 and that is 1.416 G's.
Owned
Thank you for your effort, terrific job!

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@hawku0 
According to Dirt Show, the grip is correct, so anyone claiming the car has too much grip are in the wrong. It's an advanced level of simulation & properly simulated. 

So what reason do you think make the car brake so quick? What can make the car holding on the road, refuse the tail out & oversteer from losing traction?

Why does the car turn near exactly like an Hovercraft rather than a car?


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MrDeap said:
@hawku0 
According to Dirt Show, the grip is correct, so anyone claiming the car has too much grip are in the wrong. It's an advanced level of simulation & properly simulated. 

So what reason do you think make the car brake so quick? What can make the car holding on the road, refuse the tail out & oversteer from losing traction?

Why does the car turn near exactly like an Hovercraft rather than a car?


I don't think we can just take that for granted because devs say so.

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2 second in tarmac?
https://www.facebook.com/AxisOfOversteer/videos/10154528273670493/
No 2 second ))))

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Ha3aP said:
2 second in tarmac?
https://www.facebook.com/AxisOfOversteer/videos/10154528273670493/
No 2 second ))))
No 4WD. :D

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@SamRWD I believe the dev on this one. It's hovercraft for LIFE.

If they switch all cars by hovercraft you get 100% simulation level.

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Ha3aP said:
2 second in tarmac?
https://www.facebook.com/AxisOfOversteer/videos/10154528273670493/
No 2 second ))))
No 4WD. :D
What has that got to do with braking?
And @Ha3aP I'm pretty sure he was doing more than 100km/h and also the road there goes downhill

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The more I play this game, the more Headstrong's idiotic replies actually astound me.  I have to keep checking I'm playing in 'Sim' (lol) mode.  

Historic RWD is shambolic. 

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@hawku0 The Telemetry Tool you use in your vídeo is available anywhere?

I have / use Cortextual Tool, but that one displays way more info.

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Didzis said:
Ha3aP said:
2 second in tarmac?
https://www.facebook.com/AxisOfOversteer/videos/10154528273670493/
No 2 second ))))
No 4WD. :D
What has that got to do with braking?
And @Ha3aP I'm pretty sure he was doing more than 100km/h and also the road there goes downhill
I thought it was pretty common knowledge that 4WD stops better than 2WD. But I am certainly no expert on the matter, it just seems logical in my mind, haha...

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2wd cars commonly have 4 wheel braking, disks all round so i guess it wouldnt make a difference really if the car was a 4wd, Fwd or rwd, the bias setup and weight play a bigger role

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Diffs help also.  3 is better than one.  So iv heard...

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hawku0 said:
Headlong said:

Do you have the exact figures for how much off the stopping distances are?

Rally cars don't have particularly long braking distances. They can stop from 100kph in under 50 metres, or in just over 2 seconds. Deep, heavy gravel can also sometimes shorten the stopping distance even further. 

Also do you have the exact figures for braking distances on snow tyres?

Ive just driven the Lancia 037 in Australia and the braking distances there seem very long. I'm having to intitiate braking about 3-4 seconds, or about 100-150 meters, before the tight acute hairpins, which I approach at about 150-170 kph. The braking distances don't seem off to me there at all. Plus Im finding it very easy to lock up and unsettle the car under braking. Losing the rear is especially easy to do. 
If you want the exact figures then watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3dV4CuR04g

I added two different distance measurements to the 100-0 kmh display and both are showing 25 meter stopping distances.
You can view the video frame by frame and look at the telemetry values.
If you still want to argue those numbers, then you have to say that the physics are wrong.

"I'm having to intitiate braking about 3-4 seconds, or about 100-150 meters, before the tight acute hairpins, which I approach at about 150-170 kph".
Stopping from 150-170 km/h to 0 km/h in 3-4 seconds requires about the same deacceleration rate as stopping from 100 to 0 km/h.
100-0 km/h in 2s, 150-0 km/h in 3s and 200-0 km/h in 4s all have the same deacceleration rate.

From 100 km/h or 27.7778 m/s to 0 km/h in 2 seconds means average deacceleration rate of 13.888 m/s^2 and that is 1.416 G's.
So how does this compare to the same car in real life? 100-0 in 25 meters doesn't seem to be that far off to me, especially given that you braked uphill and into a compression quite a few times. So are the braking distances off by what 5 meters, and does that mean that the physics are all screwed up now? 

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Didzis said:
Ha3aP said:
2 second in tarmac?
https://www.facebook.com/AxisOfOversteer/videos/10154528273670493/
No 2 second ))))
No 4WD. :D
What has that got to do with braking?
And @Ha3aP I'm pretty sure he was doing more than 100km/h and also the road there goes downhill
I thought it was pretty common knowledge that 4WD stops better than 2WD. But I am certainly no expert on the matter, it just seems logical in my mind, haha...
It does because the engine braking affects all four wheels. 

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SamRWD said:
hawku0 said:
Headlong said:

Do you have the exact figures for how much off the stopping distances are?

Rally cars don't have particularly long braking distances. They can stop from 100kph in under 50 metres, or in just over 2 seconds. Deep, heavy gravel can also sometimes shorten the stopping distance even further. 

Also do you have the exact figures for braking distances on snow tyres?

Ive just driven the Lancia 037 in Australia and the braking distances there seem very long. I'm having to intitiate braking about 3-4 seconds, or about 100-150 meters, before the tight acute hairpins, which I approach at about 150-170 kph. The braking distances don't seem off to me there at all. Plus Im finding it very easy to lock up and unsettle the car under braking. Losing the rear is especially easy to do. 
If you want the exact figures then watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3dV4CuR04g

I added two different distance measurements to the 100-0 kmh display and both are showing 25 meter stopping distances.
You can view the video frame by frame and look at the telemetry values.
If you still want to argue those numbers, then you have to say that the physics are wrong.

"I'm having to intitiate braking about 3-4 seconds, or about 100-150 meters, before the tight acute hairpins, which I approach at about 150-170 kph".
Stopping from 150-170 km/h to 0 km/h in 3-4 seconds requires about the same deacceleration rate as stopping from 100 to 0 km/h.
100-0 km/h in 2s, 150-0 km/h in 3s and 200-0 km/h in 4s all have the same deacceleration rate.

From 100 km/h or 27.7778 m/s to 0 km/h in 2 seconds means average deacceleration rate of 13.888 m/s^2 and that is 1.416 G's.
Owned
Thank you for your effort, terrific job!
What an unfortunate situation for some of you guys. Now you'll have to go back to playing RBR, where the physics are simulated so perfectly that it's literally like driving a car in real life. 

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Headlong said:
hawku0 said:
Headlong said:

Do you have the exact figures for how much off the stopping distances are?

Rally cars don't have particularly long braking distances. They can stop from 100kph in under 50 metres, or in just over 2 seconds. Deep, heavy gravel can also sometimes shorten the stopping distance even further. 

Also do you have the exact figures for braking distances on snow tyres?

Ive just driven the Lancia 037 in Australia and the braking distances there seem very long. I'm having to intitiate braking about 3-4 seconds, or about 100-150 meters, before the tight acute hairpins, which I approach at about 150-170 kph. The braking distances don't seem off to me there at all. Plus Im finding it very easy to lock up and unsettle the car under braking. Losing the rear is especially easy to do. 
If you want the exact figures then watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3dV4CuR04g

I added two different distance measurements to the 100-0 kmh display and both are showing 25 meter stopping distances.
You can view the video frame by frame and look at the telemetry values.
If you still want to argue those numbers, then you have to say that the physics are wrong.

"I'm having to intitiate braking about 3-4 seconds, or about 100-150 meters, before the tight acute hairpins, which I approach at about 150-170 kph".
Stopping from 150-170 km/h to 0 km/h in 3-4 seconds requires about the same deacceleration rate as stopping from 100 to 0 km/h.
100-0 km/h in 2s, 150-0 km/h in 3s and 200-0 km/h in 4s all have the same deacceleration rate.

From 100 km/h or 27.7778 m/s to 0 km/h in 2 seconds means average deacceleration rate of 13.888 m/s^2 and that is 1.416 G's.
So how does this compare to the same car in real life? 100-0 in 25 meters doesn't seem to be that far off to me, especially given that you braked uphill and into a compression quite a few times. So are the braking distances off by what 5 meters, and does that mean that the physics are all screwed up now? 
It's more than that, because all he does is press a brake. You can shorten that distance even more if you brake properly. Unless this game is optimized for a gamepad and you don't need to worry about that because of gameplay/ physics compromises that had to be made.
5 meters? Let's say it is that- it is 1/5th of the 25 m. It is a lot. There are not screwed now, they were since the beginning, you just start to slowly realise that now.
EDIT:
BTW did you notice braking distance difference between tarmac and gravel?

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