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[DiRT 4] Constructive feedback on the subject of car-feel and physics: The Ultimate Thread

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the cars would feel different if different tires are modelled and therefore affect handling / traction ...........big complaint here for sure 

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the cars would feel different if different tires are modelled and therefore affect handling / traction ...........big complaint here for sure 
Valid topic for sure, I remember even Colin McRae Rally 2.0 having tire choices, and another game I loved (Gran Turismo series) the tire choices were abundant!!  Let's see it here too!!

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pcars tried that and look at that mess :D                                                          

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I was kind of hoping to see tyre type and pressure configuration as well for Dirt 4 but i'm guessing, considering where we are now it could have made things even more inconsistent across the board. I assume at the moment it's similar to Dirt Rally where they've just got it set so specific areas and weather automatically get matched with tyre's and pressures.

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SamRWD said:
bogani said:
ill add you ,thanks Bogani , appreciate it!
If only it was easy to share setups... Anyone know how to do it?
Screenshots are all I can think of. BTW I tried adding you, searching for "bogani85" returned no results :( Maybe you could add me? "SamRWD"is my account name.
So, steams search function in a mess. Can't find you SamRWD. 

Search for bogani, I'll be the first one to pop up!

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ill add you ,thanks Bogani , appreciate it!
Can't share it as you don't seem to own Dirt 4?

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on PS4 , since day one lol.I have Dirt in pc. Was hoping we could still share it.
thanks for trying!

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on PS4 , since day one lol.I have Dirt in pc. Was hoping we could still share it.
thanks for trying!
I'll snap some photos to share it that way, no worries :)

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Thank you!  On topic :smile:
took the M3 on that weekly /daily in Michigan and with some tweaking that thing is wild .
Unfortunately in 4th gear 4-5 corners ,the thing settles in for a good drift ,only to lose momentum at the halfway point it seems ,and too easy to correct still!
When you correct it with opposite locks ,it feels it snaps and regains lost traction way too easy ,making the "momentum" feel lost ,with no inertia left.

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i really hope they fix the understeering. it just gets super annoying everytime i try to play DiRT 4.

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The actual road character is also a bit funky. Been driving around the flat Dirtfish area today which feels great. The extreme cambers in Wales and Spain makes for some strange driving sensations.

Driving the tarmac bits in Dirtfish feels more intuitive and natural than the actual tarmac stages, even on gravel tires.

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Ditto that ! Like Dirtfish has its own physics .That NR4 Impreza feels intuitive there!
The stuff I had to alter in tuning for some cars to make tarmac semi-drivable is insane !
That said I have high hopes for being able to dial gravel in eventually .

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@bogani 
Got the setup and stage, thank you! :)
Still have to finish career event before I try the setup (52 skill required, loan cars have 50 points technicans avaliable).

As for DritFish vs rally stages

I just finished Wales in career. Fist of all AI times are just off this planet. It was all fog and wet, I could not see anything. I was surprised to loose 60 seconds over short stage, I thought I will check what's up with that. I was driving safe, but 60 seconds seemed too much of a difference. So I retook this particular stage couple times- never got closer than I think 30 seconds to Alvarez. Next two stages the same- I was quitting the game and repeating those two stages- once I got I think 15 seconds off, second was similar. I know this topic is not about AI, and I like that it is tough, but if one wants to compete with AI without repeating stages- it will be impossible in Wales. I won Spain and Michigan and was second in Australia- I felt like it was a fair fight every rally, but Wales is just scripted to be lost by player. 

Anyways when I was hotlapping those Welsh stages I noticed how off grip is- I could brake really late on dry, I could enter high 2 gear, sometimes even 3 gear into a "2" corner, sane with those described as "harpin" in pacenotes (but that's not what harpin looks like). I could do impossible stuff. It was not fun at all for me as I am looking for more realistic experience. I had my car setup for oversteer, but I learned that if I go into a corner too fast I can just oversteer, powerslide and the car will glue itself to the surface. I can as well just not throw a car into a powerslide that deep.
On top of that it felt really easy- I mean I could go really fast with no problems. Yes, I had to watch out for tricky parts because pacenotes were called too late sometimes, so I had to memorise those sections, but I could go much faster than WRC guys go. I have a lot of experience driving simulators, but tricky foggy Welsh stages are as hard as it gets. I wouldn't expect to be able faster than real drivers do based on onboards.

On wet it was a little bit nicer as I had to actually watch my entry speed, but if dry Wales physics resembles dry Poland with it's loose gravel with deep ruts and banks on the side, then wet Wales is completely different from wet Poland. It is not consistent within itself.

EDIT: Almost forgot- when I was driving that particular rally, I realised that in D4 you enter the corner different way than real driver do on loose surface. Real drivers usually line the car for a corner entry before the corner- so they usually are already sideways when entering it- in D4 it doesn't make much sence to do it, because if you powerslide the way real drivers do, car gets thrown inside of a corner. So corner ENTRY is also very different from real world.

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Just doing the weekly in my M3.  God it's really bad

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In fact, F that.  Retire...  I'm not enduring any more if that shite...

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https://youtu.be/m0dvbQsjo-I
Fiesta R5 with pedal input and speedometer. 2 seconds from 100 to 0? Sure ;)

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I tried to find some footage of cars braking on a gravel surface. It's actually not that easy, so these two are the best I could find so far:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwfhavtAzsA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXupJu-Uu4A

In both videos the cars brake from 80km/h to 0km/h.

From the first video I measured the braking time with a stopwatch (~2.9s (without ABS at 0:38)), and the second one gives us the measured distances. Let's compare:
In order to get the distance of the braking from the first car, we divide the initial speed (80km/h = 22.22m/s) by the time (2.9s) and get a deceleration rate of 7.66m/s², assuming the deceleration is constant. The distance can then be calculated by (initial velocity)²/(2 * deceleration) and gives us 32,23m. The second video gives us 25.7m, 26.1m and 31.8m, the calculated deceleration rates ((initial velocity)²/(2 * distance)) are 9.61m/s², 9.46m/s² and 7.76m/s². That means we got deceleration rates reaching from 0.78 g to 0.97 g.

So there is a variation of around 0.2 g. Let's say a rally car, that has different brakes, different tires, different weight distribution, better suspension and better aerodynamics (etc.) can get another 0.2 g higher to about 1.2 g, or 11.77m/s² deceleration on gravel (I bet it can get even higher than that). Using the same math, this leads to a stopping distance of ~21m with an initial velocity of 80km/h. Dividing 22.22m/s (80km/h) by 11.77m/s² gives us a stopping time of 1.89s. Now calculating for 100km/h, with the same deceleration rate, gives us a distance of 32m and a stopping time of 2.36s. ;)

Again, this depends on the type of gravel and the surface under it, because under full lock the tires may dig into the surface and pile up the lose surface in front of them, but going by these values, 100km/h to 0km/h in 2s doesn't seem impossible to me. Sure, a gravel surface that has other properties and increased braking distances may exist, but I couldn't find exact values so far. I think driving at a certain speed on these surfaces is where it can get slippery, because when the tires don't get the time to dig into, all they may got is loose stuff.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro_Lqb7dqnU

Very weird behavior of car body. Looks like it haven't mass.

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Awasaky said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro_Lqb7dqnU

Very weird behavior of car body. Looks like it haven't mass.
Yeah, something looks weird there, but I don't think it's the cars overall weight, considering the braking distances. Given that most of these collisions involve rotating the car relatively easily, I would say, that this again looks like a an issue with the cars specific rotational inertias. To me this seems like the mass is actually concentrated around its center of gravity instead of where the engine and the tank is (outside). Could be other things though, but this is my best guess ;)

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WOW yeah that video is an eye opener! So it looks as though the cars didnt get "heavier" but rather maybe have  more aero at speed which would explain the " heavier" feel along with more weighted FFB.
I noticed that if you go off road,and try to get back from a low bank on the side,you can get airborne at 20-30 km/h.Weird.

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we just need Dana and fox in here now to complete this mystery.never seen such speculation about a game in such a short period of time.

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dgeesi0 said:
we just need Dana and fox in here now to complete this mystery.never seen such speculation about a game in such a short period of time.



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LMAO YEAH, but keep in mind this is a physics discussion thread,and as such we will be posting our opinions and observations :)

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As strange as the Lancer video looks, weird collision behaviour doesn't necessarily have to be connected to any mass or any driving physics at all.


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