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[DiRT 4] Constructive feedback on the subject of car-feel and physics: The Ultimate Thread

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As far as driving is concerned, im most perplexed by how the inside wheel rises when you turn and the car leans to the outside. Shown bit later on that video. You could maybe see a little wheel skipping on tarmac in aggressive driving in real life, but it just looks weird and off when a gravel setup car has that "stiff" suspension geometry.

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gheeD said:
As far as driving is concerned, im most perplexed by how the inside wheel rises when you turn and the car leans to the outside. Shown bit later on that video. You could maybe see a little wheel skipping on tarmac in aggressive driving in real life, but it just looks weird and off when a gravel setup car has that "stiff" suspension geometry.
I've gone around a couple of hairpins in Australia with front wheel drive vehicles, and noticed that the front of the car just seems to hover over the ground sometimes where it's rutted, and I sort of had to wait until it "landed" before I could accelerate out of it... very, very strange.

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possible that whatever causes this behaviour is related to why it can seem necessary to go full soft front anti roll and full firm rear anti-roll for the historical RWD cars to get them to slide?

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gheeD said:
As far as driving is concerned, im most perplexed by how the inside wheel rises when you turn and the car leans to the outside. Shown bit later on that video. You could maybe see a little wheel skipping on tarmac in aggressive driving in real life, but it just looks weird and off when a gravel setup car has that "stiff" suspension geometry.
Suspension travel and soft ARB's solve most of that but yeah it happens alot and it makes driving sketchy at times.

I guess this is one more thing that point to that the outside tires digs in so hard in the simulated surface and almost stops the car to a point that the inside wheels rises.

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gheeD said:
As far as driving is concerned, im most perplexed by how the inside wheel rises when you turn and the car leans to the outside. Shown bit later on that video. You could maybe see a little wheel skipping on tarmac in aggressive driving in real life, but it just looks weird and off when a gravel setup car has that "stiff" suspension geometry.
I've gone around a couple of hairpins in Australia with front wheel drive vehicles, and noticed that the front of the car just seems to hover over the ground sometimes where it's rutted, and I sort of had to wait until it "landed" before I could accelerate out of it... very, very strange.
Yeah it happenswith the RWD's too. You instantly lose all momentum when that happens.

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^ yes that ,and it may be that the weight transfer is modelled wrong,from side to side only and front to back,vs weight going to right front under braking in a left hand turn

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gheeD said:
As far as driving is concerned, im most perplexed by how the inside wheel rises when you turn and the car leans to the outside. Shown bit later on that video. You could maybe see a little wheel skipping on tarmac in aggressive driving in real life, but it just looks weird and off when a gravel setup car has that "stiff" suspension geometry.
I've gone around a couple of hairpins in Australia with front wheel drive vehicles, and noticed that the front of the car just seems to hover over the ground sometimes where it's rutted, and I sort of had to wait until it "landed" before I could accelerate out of it... very, very strange.
That's the same issue I posted about several pages ago, including a video. It seems like virtually any corner tighter than like a 5 causes the inside front wheel to lift, sending all the power there and then you're just a sitting duck until the car slows down/straightens out enough for that wheel to come back down again.

Lifting the inside wheel in itself is definitely not unrealistic, but the way it happens all the freakin' time is. And no amount of suspension tuning (spring height/rates, damping rates etc) fixes it. I've tried everything.

edit: While I'm posting here again, has there been any communication from the developers on any of this stuff, outside of the launch day stream where Paul Coleman talked a bit about physics tweaking?

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No devs comments recently, I think it's time they say something, we'll see... 

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well many have been on holiday.so i get why not much has been said.saying that it is launch period so you would of thought some of the details could of been addressed better.im sure this wont happen again on next launch.

nearly month since launch.we still no clearer on what is happening with handling or how the game is going to progress.

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Can andybody comment on the Ford Sierra Cosworth? I tested it on Wales and it oversteers like hell just by flooring the throttle and feels very loose. Also didn't notice any straightening itself out whatsoever. 

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slimleo said:
Can andybody comment on the Ford Sierra Cosworth? I tested it on Wales and it oversteers like hell just by flooring the throttle and feels very loose. Also didn't notice any straightening itself out whatsoever. 
It's rear wheel drive, why would it straighten itself out? :D

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slimleo said:
Can andybody comment on the Ford Sierra Cosworth? I tested it on Wales and it oversteers like hell just by flooring the throttle and feels very loose. Also didn't notice any straightening itself out whatsoever. 
It's rear wheel drive, why would it straighten itself out? :D
Isn't that what this whole thread is about? I thought everybody critices that behaviour and the historic RWD cars especially

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Drove the Fiesta R2 around Dirtfish for quite some time, and judging by how it behaves there Dirt 4 clearly is a step up from DR in many ways.

Then I took it to Australia and it feels like I switched to gamer mode. So much grip, so nervous and twitchy.

It obviously varies from car to car, but at the moment I feel like if I want it to feel like a "sim" I go for RX or rally cars at Dirtfish. 

My god this is frustrating!


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slimleo said:
slimleo said:
Can andybody comment on the Ford Sierra Cosworth? I tested it on Wales and it oversteers like hell just by flooring the throttle and feels very loose. Also didn't notice any straightening itself out whatsoever. 
It's rear wheel drive, why would it straighten itself out? :D
Isn't that what this whole thread is about? I thought everybody critices that behaviour and the historic RWD cars especially
The Sierra Cossie and M3 are the best/most realistic handling RWD cars in the game IMO. You can reliably and predictably use oversteer and control through throttle inputs. Even they feel twitchier than they should, but compared to all the other RWDs, they respond mostly how you would expect them to.

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dgeesi0 said:
nearly month since launch.we still no clearer on what is happening with handling or how the game is going to progress.
I'm trying to remain positive and hope that they're not saying much because they're working hard implementing changes based on all of our feedback. The cynic in me is concerned that they're just either moving on to the next game or pumping out some DLC packs.

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slimleo said:
slimleo said:
Can andybody comment on the Ford Sierra Cosworth? I tested it on Wales and it oversteers like hell just by flooring the throttle and feels very loose. Also didn't notice any straightening itself out whatsoever. 
It's rear wheel drive, why would it straighten itself out? :D
Isn't that what this whole thread is about? I thought everybody critices that behaviour and the historic RWD cars especially
The problem isn't that they straighten themselves out, but rather would prefer not to oversteer much at all.

I personally feel that both the Sierra and the M3 understeers too much. I can only improve their behaviour very marginally with extreme setups, but even then, I feel that they should have a lot less grip in the rear.

Basically I want to do this with the Sierra in D4:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbYMZOu0AQA

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i personally dont get the cossie handling.myself but as this thread shows anything goes...

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The problem isn't that they straighten themselves out, but rather would prefer not to oversteer much at all.

I personally feel that both the Sierra and the M3 understeers too much. I can only improve their behaviour very marginally with extreme setups, but even then, I feel that they should have a lot less grip in the rear.

Basically I want to do this with the Sierra in D4:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbYMZOu0AQA

But but... you have to be Colin McRae to be able to...
And you need special worn drifty tyres
And very specific surface
And the surface needs to be wet
And you need to have the right temperature
And probably some special crosswinds
And the sun, moon and Jupiter needs to be lined up
And....

;)

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The problem isn't that they straighten themselves out, but rather would prefer not to oversteer much at all.

I personally feel that both the Sierra and the M3 understeers too much. I can only improve their behaviour very marginally with extreme setups, but even then, I feel that they should have a lot less grip in the rear.

Basically I want to do this with the Sierra in D4:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbYMZOu0AQA

But but... you have to be Colin McRae to be able to...
And you need special worn drifty tyres
And very specific surface
And the surface needs to be wet
And you need to have the right temperature
And probably some special crosswinds
And the sun, moon and Jupiter needs to be lined up
And....

;)
I took 3 driving lessons.
I know that already ;)
EDIT:
Nicky's pacenotes in Sweden are absolutely crap.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLtEgWh_2mk

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/dirtgame/comments/6l2pdt/dirt_4_is_one_of_the_most_technologically/

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versedi said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLtEgWh_2mk

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/dirtgame/comments/6l2pdt/dirt_4_is_one_of_the_most_technologically/
Every time I see this kind of reassurance of what's going on under the hood in D4's physics modeling dept I feel really sad how that potential got wasted.

IMHO Dirtfish could be used as a test bench, but as soon as all of that got applied to "random" stage generator someone thought that it needs to be simplified for average gamer to enjoy. Assists off or on. One way of doing it is by making cars just stick to the road more.

Unless it is surface parameters indeed, and engine just overemphasizes tyre bite on loose. 

Really hope to get devs involved in our discussion.

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SamRWD said:
Really hope to get devs involved in our discussion.
It's been almost a month and other than the little snippet day 1 of Paul acknowledging some issues with the RWD cars we have had no updates at all.  And it's not just RWD cars that have issues, they just show off the issues of the rally side of the game the worst.   No road book for 2 weeks right after release of the game, no post here at all giving any hope that rally physics will be worked on.  Give us something, please..

For now I have put Dirt 4 on the shelf, when I play it I can feel the potential but the cars just feel wrong and I feel like I'm un-learning how to rally sim race.  I'm not trying to bash the game or CM at all, I don't know the time constraints they were under.  I think the base is truly there for the ultimate rally simulator, and Your Stage is a game changer if they build on it to make it more dynamic/less repetitive.

I do have faith as someone who got Dirt Rally day 1 and how much they improved it, that was the best EA I have ever been a part of.  D4 has huge potential and I think most of us can agree if they fix the rally physics, improve Your Stage with more tiles/less repetitiveness, and add DLC locations you really have the ultimate rally simulator that will have an extremely long life.  Just wish we had any kind of word of what the plans are..

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