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[DiRT 4] Constructive feedback on the subject of car-feel and physics: The Ultimate Thread

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Your road car has a preset & fixed chassis setup.  Very minor tweaks to your anti roll bars would change the behaviour considerably.  That's something we can & do change in game, to the extremes but with little effect

To simplify the in-game handling by saying your road car behaves the same, is... well... wrong :-P

How do I know??  If your road car did what a D4 car does regarding under/oversteer, your car would actually be totalled by now as you'd have either lost complete control braking hard for the corner, or understeered off the first sharp turn you'd come across, & if neither of those had got you, the snap oversteer on the corner exit would have had you up a tree backwards!

but you are still here & alive, so I assume real life is slightly more progressive & controlled 

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I remember when I installed a rear anti-roll bar in my 2000 Impreza. Wow, what a huge difference. Made the back end so lively.

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It's the first thing anyone who has an Impreza for more than just commuting does.  Unreal the difference it makes - True thing!

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Just did the dailys in DR and a part from the FFB, I must say I really liked the C4 in Germany. I don't think the D4 tarmac is the big improvement over DR as I first thought. You get fooled by the tighter FFB feel in D4.

It is a bit hard to judge as I feel the cambered roads of Spain make the cars feel a bit strange at times. I would love to have a flat tarmac rally in D4. 

I also think the sounds design in DR is better. More raw sound incar, more crisp clatter of gravel hitting the underside of the cars.

DR isn't being deleted anytime soon, even though the quirks it has.

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^so agree!!!! I hopped in the Hyundai in DR in Greece last night and what an intuitive joy to throw that around on gravel.
I also believe the sounds were crisper or better period.

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I'm probably echoing what many people have probably already said (i hope so at least) but Sim handling needs work so the cars can actually slide on power. Honestly it kills the feeling of the rallying (especially the RWD cars, they're on rails). you can play with setups so the cars can slide SLIGHTLY, but that's a stretch.

edit: another thing I wanted to add is that the overall FFB (mostly with front tyres) needs to improved too. I feel no squirreling under heavy braking especially. I find that pumping up the percentage just makes the steering heavier. 

You can watch most rally videos on Youtube and see so many drivers do this to get through a stage, even Colin McRae at times. Even on tarmac it could be done. (look at this Patrick Snijers vid)
Note: This is just my feedback on the Rally cars! The circuit racing is pretty good tbh because it actually doesn't have this problem. (strange that.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWRdqabMIEM


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I've finally played enough to actually have an opinion on the physics. From my point of view the big thing feels like it's the tyre model. When putting down power (or braking) the tyres seem to get too much longitudinal grip, especially in the rear, and it doesn't quite balance with the lateral grip. When putting down a lot of power the longitudinal grip in the rear has a hard time breaking traction, and easily overpowers the lateral grip loss that occurs. At the same time, the lateral grip in the front tyres seem to get overpowered by the added forward force from the back, overpowering the lateral grip that's there.
Most cars seem to behave decently OK when not under heavy acceleration or braking and off throttle oversteer feels predictable most of the time. This might also explain why FWD cars feel quite nice, since there are no added forces but some braking working on the rear end.
I do believe there are also some cars that have suspension setups that accentuates this problem.

So I know some of you will not agree with this, and that's OK. This is my very subjective and not well researched _feeling_ of what the problem is. It might not be what actually happens in game, but it's what it feels like to me and what I'd fiddle with as a solution to the perceived weirdness of some cars (Most RWDs, some 4WDs). Feel free to disagree, I'm putting this here so that codies can read it :-)

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@KingOfTheCakesthe thing is some cars can be driven like that. opel manta opened my eyes the other day on tarmac its amazing fun.slide on power round whole hair pins.the m3 will but takes a lot of effort to get it to do so right. we are talking about tarmac/asphalt. not other surfaces.


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Dytut said:
I've finally played enough to actually have an opinion on the physics. From my point of view the big thing feels like it's the tyre model. When putting down power (or braking) the tyres seem to get too much longitudinal grip, especially in the rear, and it doesn't quite balance with the lateral grip. When putting down a lot of power the longitudinal grip in the rear has a hard time breaking traction, and easily overpowers the lateral grip loss that occurs. At the same time, the lateral grip in the front tyres seem to get overpowered by the added forward force from the back, overpowering the lateral grip that's there.
Most cars seem to behave decently OK when not under heavy acceleration or braking and off throttle oversteer feels predictable most of the time. This might also explain why FWD cars feel quite nice, since there are no added forces but some braking working on the rear end.
I do believe there are also some cars that have suspension setups that accentuates this problem.

So I know some of you will not agree with this, and that's OK. This is my very subjective and not well researched _feeling_ of what the problem is. It might not be what actually happens in game, but it's what it feels like to me and what I'd fiddle with as a solution to the perceived weirdness of some cars (Most RWDs, some 4WDs). Feel free to disagree, I'm putting this here so that codies can read it :-)
.I believe codemasters are looking for the following type of feedback
A) What car your driving
B) What that car setup is
C) the behaviour you expect from that car under B's settings.
D) Surface type
E) Weather type

So far we havent seen any feedback going into this much depth. I've started working on such feedback  but its going to take a few weeks. My early conclusion which will alarm allot here is theres nothing wrong with the physics. Adjusting car setups produces accurate results based on real world understandings. Stiffer suspension, ridehieight, dampers, brake bias, rollbar. All these adjustments are effecting the car behaviour in a realistic way that correlates with real world.

I have had to have a re-fresher course on car differentials. Which has helped me allot in understanding how to cure the on throttle understeer. Some of the base car setups have very long gear ratios aswell. Evo X for example doesnt even have a hint of on throttle understeer after setting pre-load to rwd and shortening 3rd, 4th, 5th gear ratios.

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A. all cars ,on tarmac besides Dirtfish feel weird,as they "  float " on tarmac in Spain.Force feedback is horrible on T300 ,PS4
B. adjusted for understeer,the cars respond but other issues with handling become a problem,such as no audible feedback from tires as cars get setup to drive understeery(FWD)
C.understeery with controllable limits,as the nose pushes into corner.want to feel the "weight" 
D.tarmac
E.dry
should add that AWD and RWD feels not right for me on tarmac of Spain.Dirtfish is much more what it should feel like,but the "floaty" feel of spain is not right imho.

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It's not so much the psychics that I have a problem with, when the cars are fully upgraded they handle quite nice but the track editor has become repetitive, rather then unlimited stages it fells more like 5, every stage has the same corners just in a slightly different order, I've gone back to dirt rally a bit and the feeling you get from the handmade real life stages cannot be replicated in a generic stage creator. 
I would love a DLC with some actual real life rally stages like they had versions of sweet lamb, panzerplator etc. 
Dirt4 has potential to be a match for dirt rally but they desperately need more immersive stages.
watching the WRC in Germany this weekend and recognising sections of stages from dirt rally instantly makes me want to plug my wheel in and get on the. For myself, this element is missing from dirt4.

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OHYEAHHH said:

It's not so much the psychics that I have a problem with, when the cars are fully upgraded they handle quite nice
Upgrading cars makes no difference to their handling, only the durability of the part you upgraded.

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caerphoto said:
OHYEAHHH said:

It's not so much the psychics that I have a problem with, when the cars are fully upgraded they handle quite nice
Upgrading cars makes no difference to their handling, only the durability of the part you upgraded.
Does it not make them faster?

maybe i was just adjusting more as I was upgrading and presuming it was the upgrading that was helping.
i spent a lot of time messing with setups early on but then just decided to use the defaults.

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OHYEAHHH said:
caerphoto said:
OHYEAHHH said:

It's not so much the psychics that I have a problem with, when the cars are fully upgraded they handle quite nice
Upgrading cars makes no difference to their handling, only the durability of the part you upgraded.
Does it not make them faster?
No, it only makes their parts a lot less likely to break down.

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OHYEAHHH said:
caerphoto said:
OHYEAHHH said:

It's not so much the psychics that I have a problem with, when the cars are fully upgraded they handle quite nice
Upgrading cars makes no difference to their handling, only the durability of the part you upgraded.
Does it not make them faster?
No, it only makes their parts a lot less likely to break down.

How are you finding the handling porkhammer?

You still seem fairly active on dirt4.
I am fine with the handling am just getting fed up of the same corners over and over again, exspecialy the long stages, we really are missing that immersion real word stages give in my opinion.

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OHYEAHHH said:
I am fine with the handling am just getting fed up of the same corners over and over again, exspecialy the long stages, we really are missing that immersion real word stages give in my opinion.
I agree with you here this is why i stopped doing career for now. But i do like loading up shorter career events in freeplay and running them with each car class, tuning and comparing times of my own and others. Im 155 hours deep now and personally really like the handling mostly.

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If only we could import the stages from DR directly to D4, that would be very interesting. It would be much easier to compare the physics. Imo the stages themselves in D4 might be a big part of the perceived problem.

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I was told tuning setups were being posted in this thread since I left, did I miss them? I skimmed through the last 10 or so pages, but I didn't see any car and tuning specifics posted. 

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this thread and game looks pretty dead .I still play it and hoping for some patches on issues described here.

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this thread and game looks pretty dead .I still play it and hoping for some patches on issues described here.
Yep, and still no mention of the title in the Sim forums I frequent although, DR still gets some discussion from time to time. I keep checking here for any more info but, it's too quiet.


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Yeah, it doesn't look good. The silence and inactivity doesn't look promising for the future.

Besides the physics stuff, there are still lots of elements/bugs/strange features that needs fixing.
Off the top of my head:
- Only 4 setup slots for saving.
- Setups in Dirtfish only load up to 85 skill. Very strange
- Nasty mood behaviour of the chief engineer
- Very different stage times between different cars in the same class
etc.





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Arcade
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL4nHQvW01s

Simulation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkWm7xV_vu0

Simulation is about feeling of weight & feel more planted to the road. Every sim racer know that. :)

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MrDeap said:
Arcade
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL4nHQvW01s

Simulation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkWm7xV_vu0

Simulation is about feeling of weight & feel more planted to the road. Every sim racer know that. :)

Please elaborate what the actual point is?

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bogani said:
MrDeap said:
Arcade
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL4nHQvW01s

Simulation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkWm7xV_vu0

Simulation is about feeling of weight & feel more planted to the road. Every sim racer know that. :)

Please elaborate what the actual point is?
It seems pretty self-explanatory to me: the Prius can slide on the Auto-Cross circuit while the D4 car can't slide no matter what you do with it. It doesn't make any sense but, the intended sarcasm in the attached text may escape some. :)

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