Jump to content
F1 2020 | KNOWN KEY ISSUES | READ ME!!! Read more... ×
Sign in to follow this  

Club XP system - Is it fair?

Recommended Posts

Here's a story:

A while ago I was invited to join one of the leading RaceNet Clubs in GRID Autosport on PC (obviously I won't say which club and who invited me because "name and shame" isn't really the point of this thread).

I accepted as at the moment I was pretty excited to be part of one of the best "outfits" on the leaderboards, but I was a bit skeptical regarding to why the chose me, as I'm far from being one of the fastest drivers out there. I was assured this isn't an issue as that comes with time and practice. I thought: "Ok, that's great!"...

I got filled in on the rules of the club: having to race only under that club's colors, clocking in at least 30 min. of gameplay per day, adding certain members of the club on Steam, joining the club's group on Steam... basic stuff and nothing out of place so far.

After this whole "procedure" I got invited to their private session, in order to meet the team and, I quote: "help us get the top spot on the Tuner leaderboard". That's when they let me in on their little XP-collecting secret: private sessions, 1 race, 1 lap, uber-short circuits (in this case Okutama Sprint), collisions off, AI on, difficulty: Very Hard, repeat. Dozens of times, over and over again, with the sole purpose of collecting XP and jumping places on the leaderboards as quickly as possible.

As I found absolutely no fun in that whatsoever, three or four races in and I called quits, cut my links with the club, and went back to my little "position-100+ on the leaderboards" club.


Now... I'm not saying what they do is cheating (it obviously doesn't really qualify as being that). I'm not saying the members of that particular club aren't good (most of them would probably run rings around me on any track, in any category, regardless of the race length).

But, really... IS THEIR SYSTEM FAIR TOWARDS OTHER RACERS?


With my own club (and I'm sure it applies to others too) I'm probably going to get around 15-20.000XP (from both members) per 5 races of 3 laps each. While I get that, these guys will probably log in 10 times as much XP racing 30 sec. per lap, 1 lap races. So basically if you care about your position on the leaderboards it's "do as they do" or you've got virtually no chance of getting near the top spots, as they already got XX millions more than your average club in XP.

I know what most of you are going to say: "ignore them" / "the leaderboards don't mean anything" / "XP just shows how much time you spend in game, not how quick you are" and you're right!

But this situation, for me at least, renders the whole existence of club leaderboards completely pointless and proves that the "same amount of XP for all race lengths" system is faulty to-the-bone.

Seriously, didn't Codemasters see this happening when they came up with these utterly-stupid XP algorythms?

Feel free to share your take on this...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's called boosting.

This happened on Trackmania, this happens here. People complained custom lobbies didn't pay enough money/XP so they now pay as much as proper lobbies, and the end-result is everyone uses custom lobbies to boost. Take away that parity to stop the boosting and people will complain they don't get enough XP for racing 'their way'.


Nobody wins. We may as well just accept it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


The club XP leaderboard is indeed a poorly designed metric. It has very little (if any) correlation to anyone's skill level or in-game accomplishments.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was just low-hanging fruit hastily thrown in so that "club leaderboards" could be checked off the list of features implemented.

There's no "prestige" in being a member of a "top club" in this type of ranking. It doesn't make the game better (it actually might make the game worse since it practically encourages XP boosting over legitimate competition), but it lets the marketers hype up more game features...

...We would all do well to keep this sort of thing in mind when the hype train starts blowing the horn urging us to pre-order upcoming games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This happened on Trackmania, this happens here. People complained custom lobbies didn't pay enough money/XP so they now pay as much as proper lobbies, and the end-result is everyone uses custom lobbies to boost. Take away that parity to stop the boosting and people will complain they don't get enough XP for racing 'their way'.

You're right, in a way. But custom lobbies paying less XP isn't the only solution. Linking the amount of XP rewards to the race length would sort at least part of the problem.

If one lap races would pay a third of what 3 lap races pay and 3 lap races would pay a third of what 10 lap races pay and so on, I don't think anyone would mind. It's a simple system based on the amount of time you spend on track. Race less, get less XP. There's always going to be the occasional player who finds a way around it, but it wouldn't be so proeminent.

Obviously I don't expect CM to take action, but for future titles, in theory at least it should work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, like many said here the solution is simple: xp and race duration have to be hand in hand.

What troubles me much more is the kick vote abuse, for which the solution is not clear... Maybe when VAC cames online people will not abuse it so much. Sometimes, and this is really sad, I think about going slower just to avoid being kicked... But then I think: "wait a minute, this is what the grip cheaters do!", so I just go as fast as possible, and I am kicked. Best was far was 3 times in a 4h span.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These leaderboard points mean nothing, yes it would be nice if the actual best racers have their rightful positions at the top but people will abuse the system. You fix one way and they will find another way to bend the rules, its just a big never ending circle :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You should get more xp with longer races and against human opponents. Get less xp racing AI and no collisions/damage

You actually do get less XP for AI opponents, but yes, everything else should be taken into account: Collisions, race length, and average lap times. I also think your impact rating should give more of a bonus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I hear what you are saying and I think I know possibly which club you are talking about and if not I know one that is doing very similar, we have our club up to level 48 and that is by hard work and getting wins in full rooms with no AI and full damage, there is one particular club we were close to and we were having regular battles with them, now all of their members seem to be constantly unjoinable and we never see them come into our room either.

Their stats are constantly climbing away and we were scratching our heads as we have 4 core members that race daily, we only have 12 members as opposed to some of the top clubs that have near 50, we are doing ok and our stats show this, just look at the top clubs and their wins as opposed to how many members they have and you can work out their win/loss, on some it's pretty pathetic.

We have lost 2 members to one of the top ten clubs as they just wanted to be glory hunters and say they are in a top ten team, when in reality they aren't that good, we have raced a few of the top ten team members and while a few stick out as being decent racers the rest are very poor.

We will never be number one because we do it the correct way but at least we will know we have earned our position with a clear conscience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I hear what you are saying and I think I know possibly which club you are talking about and if not I know one that is doing very similar, we have our club up to level 48 and that is by hard work and getting wins in full rooms with no AI and full damage, there is one particular club we were close to and we were having regular battles with them, now all of their members seem to be constantly unjoinable and we never see them come into our room either.

Their stats are constantly climbing away and we were scratching our heads as we have 4 core members that race daily, we only have 12 members as opposed to some of the top clubs that have near 50, we are doing ok and our stats show this, just look at the top clubs and their wins as opposed to how many members they have and you can work out their win/loss, on some it's pretty pathetic.

We have lost 2 members to one of the top ten clubs as they just wanted to be glory hunters and say they are in a top ten team, when in reality they aren't that good, we have raced a few of the top ten team members and while a few stick out as being decent racers the rest are very poor.

We will never be number one because we do it the correct way but at least we will know we have earned our position with a clear conscience.

And you'd actually have had fun as well, and if you ever challenged those teams who grind to 1 on 1 you would KA !

I was thinking that something like you only get XP in public rooms. But then all you would get is people ganging up and vote kicking people out so they could do their grind.

Then you can imagine something where you only get XP where half the lobby is not your team. But then the teams would recruit non members etc.

The bottom line is that it is always possible to game the system one way or other if thats what you want to do. A bit sad. But game racing is very competitive. As is real racing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got called a traitor by the leader, because I refused to remove a comment.

I've written that doing XP farming is incredible boring, sure the club is high in the leaderboard, but doesn't represent racer behind it & didn't see the point behind the club leaderboard by knowing that.

I have no respect & always make fun on how they achieve to waste so much hour's doing it. Being in the top leaderboard club is like owning a PT Cruiser.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You should get more xp with longer races and against human opponents. Get less xp racing AI and no collisions/damage

i actually agree with this. the game penalises anybody who races more than single laps. i would love to run 5 or 10 lap races but the xp payout makes this unfeasable. u do get more xp for racing more human drivers but it is minimal. about 50 xp extra per person that u beat.

we do race 1 lap races, but we race full tracks in an open room with medium ai to fill in the gaps. but that just how i set up a room.

also we have NO rules governing when and how often a member is online, i also say to my members that if they want set up a room with more laps or collisions on thats fine as far im concerned. if a team member wants to set up a room, the set the rules for that room.

i honestly think that as a team owner/principal its best to let my members race exactly how and when they want to.

even if the game gave 50% of race xp at the end of each lap depending on your pos.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This has been discussed multiple times on this forum. I'm sure you can find many threads on this already.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We just like to race people, no rules, anyone of our members can set up any room they like but we do no allow boosting, mind you we usually all race together as we are actual friends and not random members, although we have a couple join that are random but have raced side by side with us for hours.

It would sometimes be tempting to race with collisions off due to rammers but as we mainly do a custom cup we can sort them out fairly quickly, we don't limit assists.upgrades or tuning so everyone can set their preference, we always have full damage and usually limit flashbacks to 1, always a minimum of 2 laps on larger tracks but usually 3, it works well for good racing but not necessarily for club XP.

We did race in someone else's lobby last night and there were about 8 players and the rest were AI, we got massive XP which I assume is from having a full room, does this mean that winning against AI counts as winning against a player? If so I did not know this and maybe we could add some AI in when the room is not full but leave it open so real players can fill the AI slots.

The AI are actually quite tough to beat as we found last night so I can't really see this as boosting, does anyone else see this as boosting? I would like to know your thoughts, it's a bit boring sometimes when there maybe just the core 4 members on together, we like a challenge!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We just like to race people, no rules, anyone of our members can set up any room they like but we do no allow boosting, mind you we usually all race together as we are actual friends and not random members, although we have a couple join that are random but have raced side by side with us for hours.

It would sometimes be tempting to race with collisions off due to rammers but as we mainly do a custom cup we can sort them out fairly quickly, we don't limit assists.upgrades or tuning so everyone can set their preference, we always have full damage and usually limit flashbacks to 1, always a minimum of 2 laps on larger tracks but usually 3, it works well for good racing but not necessarily for club XP.

We did race in someone else's lobby last night and there were about 8 players and the rest were AI, we got massive XP which I assume is from having a full room, does this mean that winning against AI counts as winning against a player? If so I did not know this and maybe we could add some AI in when the room is not full but leave it open so real players can fill the AI slots.

The AI are actually quite tough to beat as we found last night so I can't really see this as boosting, does anyone else see this as boosting? I would like to know your thoughts, it's a bit boring sometimes when there maybe just the core 4 members on together, we like a challenge!

hi supercharger,

i like the way u run ur club, as for racing with ai being boosting, personally i would say no.

other people may have a different view, but i only think ur boosting if ur in a private room, running short tracks.

the ai is there to fill the gaps and can give some tough racing on harder difficulties.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest although I set up the club it is our club, 4 of us have equal share and are all involved in something, it is just I am usually host as I have a good 75/20 fibre connection so I can handle a full room but we vote between ourselves what cars and tracks we would like, we do all disciplines so as to have an even level across the board, but we hate Endurance although I found out last night you can do Endurance cars in a race with no tyre wear which is handy as we prefer racing.

Anyone is welcome to join us for a race, you will find it tough going though as a couple of our lads are very quick, if anyone is interested add me up on steam http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197999547006/ and come join our lobby it is always open.

I think I may try later with a few AI to fill the room out and see how it goes although it still will be open for anyone to take the AI slots.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The whole XP-system is useless anyway. It doesn't say anything about the actual skill of the player. I constantly race people that have 3-6 times as much races as I do, are on a higher level, but still I lap 1-2 seconds quicker than them.

A 'real' leaderboard should balance the own acomplishments to those of the fellow players in a race. 

If you race with players that are on the same level (+-5 or so) you gain points if you rank top half in a race and lose points if you rank in the bottom half. If you win against players that are all 10 lvls lower than you, you won't gain any points, or just very few. On the other hand, coming on the bottom half with 10 lvls lower than the top players that won against you, you'll still gain some points, as it is still experience and you'll gain faster if you win against higher lvls. Bonus points for fastest lap or within 2% of the fastest lap. That would actually represent the skill of the driver in some kind and it would prevent massive boosting in clans... if 10 members constantly raced each other, they simply can't ALL gain points, as some of them will lose out.

With such a system you'd soon have a ranking that is not defined by just playing more than others (what it is at the moment) but actually by being better. But such a system would cost time in development, balancing and therefore money, that pretty sure won't be spent on such a small game. I think Blizzard should start making racing games. :D 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been saying this whole time that XP needs to be Awarded for Race Length. I also don't like the current Impact Rating, as you can show yellow if you enter in a Public lobby and start at the back with the other Scrubs. I think they should implement an XP system based on "Clean Passes". You already get charged for Repairs, you shouldn't have to be labeled because someone at the back of the pack decides to take you out. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 RWBSUPERCHARGER said:
I hear what you are saying and I think I know possibly which club you are talking about and if not I know one that is doing very similar, we have our club up to level 48 and that is by hard work and getting wins in full rooms with no AI and full damage, there is one particular club we were close to and we were having regular battles with them, now all of their members seem to be constantly unjoinable and we never see them come into our room either.

Their stats are constantly climbing away and we were scratching our heads as we have 4 core members that race daily, we only have 12 members as opposed to some of the top clubs that have near 50, we are doing ok and our stats show this, just look at the top clubs and their wins as opposed to how many members they have and you can work out their win/loss, on some it's pretty pathetic.

We have lost 2 members to one of the top ten clubs as they just wanted to be glory hunters and say they are in a top ten team, when in reality they aren't that good, we have raced a few of the top ten team members and while a few stick out as being decent racers the rest are very poor.

We will never be number one because we do it the correct way but at least we will know we have earned our position with a clear conscience.

Seems to me like some teams are a bit upset that other teams are putting in hard work to climb the board. If you check our gaming hours of our members you can clearly see why we are moving up the board. So instead of writing silly posts and deleting us off your steam friends gather all the facts and L2P. Seems you got a bee in your bonnet because you had a run in with a couple of our members because they accused you of being an unfair racer !!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am a bit confused as to what you are saying there Desalvo, I was not referring to your team and I have not deleted any of you?? You and all of your team mates I added are still on my list? Yes I had a run in with a couple of your team mates as you know but it wasn't down to my driving it was down to be consistently took off on the last lap by the same 2 players, I have never had any problem with most of your team, I understand racing incidents happen and so be it, but when I am in first place and get took of on the last corner more than once a night I start to get a bit pissed off.

I know you and Stevie race every day as I see you online, you can put in more hours than us as we only do 4-5 a night, I have had some close racing with both of you and never a problem.

It is not just my opinion on the 2 in question either, they have had run ins with a few of us, it's one of the reasons we stopped playing with you, I have invited you and stevie into our races multiple times over the last few weeks, so I really don't know where you are coming from.

Anyway as I said it is not you, but if you feel the caps fits and all that so be it!



Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well my apologies then Supercharger when i searched you earlier on steam couldnt find you but now i see why because you changed your name :) I was going off what one of the guys had said obviously they were wrong sorry. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, I use a different name for COD that's probably why, anyway I challenge INF to a race off with RWB in a closed room one night, let me know!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×