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WELL DONE BAKU 2017

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Vettel can't remember when he drove dangerously lol
Must have dementia like my dad, as that's the sort of thing he'd say :joy:

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Hughesy said:
VetteIfan said:
fIsince08 said:
This is ridiculous. Vettel also needs a ban for driving into Lewis like that. Unacceptable.
lmao, get real. The sport isn't that soft, yet. He'll take a penalty but they bumped wheels at a snail pace. 
Do that in a junior formula and you will get a very severe penalty, doing it in F1 is even worse. Contact when trying to overtake is fine, thats  racing, but ramming someone on purpose is not, you need to take your fan goggles off for a second.


Gutted for Massa.
This isn't a situation like Maldonado, who did deserve a ban when he performed his high speed swipe on Lewis. What Vettel did was wrong, I'm not refuting that. But at the speed it happened it wasn't dangerous or even malicious, a ban is OTT. As it was he received a 10 second stop/go, which is the maximum penalty that can be enforced in a race, and well deserved. 

Incredible race though. Much needed result for Ricciardo, who despite the points gap has been less impressive than Verstappen this year, just skewed by bad luck. Stroll obvious DOTD, been brilliant all weekend. 

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VetteIfan said:
Hughesy said:
VetteIfan said:
fIsince08 said:
This is ridiculous. Vettel also needs a ban for driving into Lewis like that. Unacceptable.
lmao, get real. The sport isn't that soft, yet. He'll take a penalty but they bumped wheels at a snail pace. 
Do that in a junior formula and you will get a very severe penalty, doing it in F1 is even worse. Contact when trying to overtake is fine, thats  racing, but ramming someone on purpose is not, you need to take your fan goggles off for a second.


Gutted for Massa.
This isn't a situation like Maldonado, who did deserve a ban when he performed his high speed swipe on Lewis. What Vettel did was wrong, I'm not refuting that. But at the speed it happened it wasn't dangerous or even malicious, a ban is OTT. As it was he received a 10 second stop/go, which is the maximum penalty that can be enforced in a race, and well deserved. 

Incredible race though. Much needed result for Ricciardo, who despite the points gap has been less impressive than Verstappen this year, just skewed by bad luck. Stroll obvious DOTD, been brilliant all weekend. 
I have to say, I agree with Hughesy here. The speed of which he hit him doesn't matter, at the end of the day he hit him on purpose. End of story, a severe infraction needs to be in place. I think both should have the book thrown at them to varying degrees but don't be under any illusion that what Vettel did was serious.

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It's not often someone agrees with me, but when they do I know I'm right :joy: Lewis was naughty and could have been punished, but he didn't really do anything abnormal. SC was only a few hundred meteres down the road, so Vettel must have known Hamilton wasn't going to bolt then. What I think happened, the other restart Vettel was miles back and almost got overtaken, so this time he was overly hasty to get a good start.

Crazy race and very entertaining. I think Stroll is starting to prove he belongs in F1, he's a kid and maybe it was too soon, but he obviously has talent and now has confidence.

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Imagine only getting a 10 second penalty for deliberately steering into another driver :D

EDIT: To make matters even more laughable, the FIA have confirmed Hamilton didn't brake test Vettel so Vettel essentially caused 2 collisions and STILL only received a 10 second penalty.

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Pretty much confirms what I said.

https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/879021462329413632
https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/879021602775719936

I know it's Benson, but really it's from the FIA.

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Hamilton definitely deserved a penalty. He basically parked it at corner exit, you can't do that. That doesn't excuse Vettel's actions, drive up alongside, give him the finger fine. But don't ram him that's just stupid. In my opinion they both deserved penalties (and Vettel should probably get points on his license or whatever they call it). 

Either way way neither of them acted at the caliber a multiple world champion should. Happy for Ricciardo and proud of Bottas's maturity. I think Stroll got lucky but it's too early in his career to say. It was a strange race that's for sure. Still think this circuit is crap. 

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Mexicola said:
VetteIfan said:
Hughesy said:
VetteIfan said:
fIsince08 said:
This is ridiculous. Vettel also needs a ban for driving into Lewis like that. Unacceptable.
lmao, get real. The sport isn't that soft, yet. He'll take a penalty but they bumped wheels at a snail pace. 
Do that in a junior formula and you will get a very severe penalty, doing it in F1 is even worse. Contact when trying to overtake is fine, thats  racing, but ramming someone on purpose is not, you need to take your fan goggles off for a second.


Gutted for Massa.
This isn't a situation like Maldonado, who did deserve a ban when he performed his high speed swipe on Lewis. What Vettel did was wrong, I'm not refuting that. But at the speed it happened it wasn't dangerous or even malicious, a ban is OTT. As it was he received a 10 second stop/go, which is the maximum penalty that can be enforced in a race, and well deserved. 

Incredible race though. Much needed result for Ricciardo, who despite the points gap has been less impressive than Verstappen this year, just skewed by bad luck. Stroll obvious DOTD, been brilliant all weekend. 
I have to say, I agree with Hughesy here. The speed of which he hit him doesn't matter, at the end of the day he hit him on purpose. End of story, a severe infraction needs to be in place. I think both should have the book thrown at them to varying degrees but don't be under any illusion that what Vettel did was serious.
You see that's where I guess we just differ in opinion, because to me the speed of collision very much does matter because it goes some way to backing up the
intentions for contact. In Seb's case it was to basically prove a point and let Lewis know of his annoyance. This is in stark contrast to something like the Maldonado incident, where he was simply trying to wipe Lewis out and cause him damage. If Seb wanted to do that he would've done it with a lot more speed, a lot more force, and not wheel face to wheel face contact. 

Once again, this is not me condoning it, we can all accept in principle it was wrong but we're just haggling over the penalty. Which, to me, was about right.

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I'll admit I'm a fan so I may naturally be a bit biased, but Hamilton did not deserve any penalty today. Once the SC is called in it's down to the leader to dictate the pace, and people behind need to be alert of their every move. Vettel assumed Lewis would accelerate out of the corner and simply ran in the back of him. As the data has shown, Lewis didn't brake test him or anything. He was just slowing up to let the SC get away.

I think Lewis has reacted to this all superbly. I completely agree with what he said to Lee McKensie and Will Buxton. These guys are examples to junior drivers and they can't let people get away with blatantly swerving into another car out of frustration. And the fact Vettel is flat out denying he swerved into Hamilton is ridiculous. His radio messages, I thought he was joking the first time he asked why he got a penalty, but when he asked again I realised he was actually being serious... It's all there in full glorious HD for us to see!

Rachel Brookes did a terrible job of interrogating him about it all, totally missed the point about whether the move was out of order, and Lewis was good not to rise to her headline clickbaity style of journalism. At least Will Buxton wasn't taking any of Vettel's bullsh*t over on NBCSN, he did a great job in his interview. I can't stand Brookes, she always sounds so monotone, she doesn't ask the right questions at all, to Lewis nor Vettel. I wish we could have Will Buxton, what a pro.

All in all, I think the penalty for Vettel was largely appropriate. It was just incredibly unfortunate that Hamilton's headrest came loose, otherwise he would've finished 30+ seconds ahead of him. However, I would've personally added something like a grid drop for Vettel for the next race too, like 5 places or something.

But this race is yet another example of when Vettel can see the red mist, and to be honest it just makes him look weak. We laugh at his radio messages to Charlie Whiting in Mexico, but you can't go telling the referee to 'f*ck off'. Then there's all the other raging radio messages from last year too. I know all drivers get angry when it doesn't go their way, but Vettel too often lets his anger take over, he needs to reign it in.

I hate Sky F1 for banging on about the psychological advantage, but Lewis is gonna come out of this stronger than ever before.

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Back to the race though, what a brilliant race it was. I tweeted before the race that it was either gonna be a total snooze-fest with no overtaking or incident, or the most chaotic race in years, no in-between. And it turned out to be right!

Without various incidents and failures, multiple drivers had a chance of winning. We'll be talking about this race for years to come, what a classic. Brilliant job by Ricciardo, yet again proving he is the king of late braking, with some insane double overtakes into T1. Amazing too to see him ahead of Raikkonen in the championship now as well. Kimi has had some misfortune, but he's simply not on the pace. Put a Verstappen or Ricciardo in there and that other Ferrari would be fighting for the championship with Vettel and Hamilton.

I feel so bad for Verstappen though, what has the kid got to do to finish a race? Been on it all weekend, and very well could've won the race today. He deserves a win this year after all he's been through.

And Stroll, what a weekend, didn't put a foot wrong, just such a shame to lose 2nd on the line! It was so nice to see him in the cool down room, you can tell he's just genuinely ecstatic to be there, living his dream. Good on him, and after a terrible start to the year, after so much criticism (myself included), it's great to see him deliver a brilliant result. Great for Bottas too to come back after the puncture at the start.

Yet another wasted opportunity of a podium for Force India. Ocon is undoubtedly a star of the future, but he was clumsy. That team could've had a 2-3 potentially, what a shame.

Hulkenberg. A podium was on the cards for him too, and made that crazy mistake at T7! Even Stroll has got an F1 podium before him!

Honorable mention to Magnussen, stayed out of trouble, held on for a solid points finish. Good recovery by Sainz too, finally points for Alonso and McLaren, and Ericsson too.

What a race.

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VetteIfan said:
Mexicola said:
VetteIfan said:
Hughesy said:
VetteIfan said:
fIsince08 said:
This is ridiculous. Vettel also needs a ban for driving into Lewis like that. Unacceptable.
lmao, get real. The sport isn't that soft, yet. He'll take a penalty but they bumped wheels at a snail pace. 
Do that in a junior formula and you will get a very severe penalty, doing it in F1 is even worse. Contact when trying to overtake is fine, thats  racing, but ramming someone on purpose is not, you need to take your fan goggles off for a second.


Gutted for Massa.
This isn't a situation like Maldonado, who did deserve a ban when he performed his high speed swipe on Lewis. What Vettel did was wrong, I'm not refuting that. But at the speed it happened it wasn't dangerous or even malicious, a ban is OTT. As it was he received a 10 second stop/go, which is the maximum penalty that can be enforced in a race, and well deserved. 

Incredible race though. Much needed result for Ricciardo, who despite the points gap has been less impressive than Verstappen this year, just skewed by bad luck. Stroll obvious DOTD, been brilliant all weekend. 
I have to say, I agree with Hughesy here. The speed of which he hit him doesn't matter, at the end of the day he hit him on purpose. End of story, a severe infraction needs to be in place. I think both should have the book thrown at them to varying degrees but don't be under any illusion that what Vettel did was serious.
You see that's where I guess we just differ in opinion, because to me the speed of collision very much does matter because it goes some way to backing up the
intentions for contact. In Seb's case it was to basically prove a point and let Lewis know of his annoyance. This is in stark contrast to something like the Maldonado incident, where he was simply trying to wipe Lewis out and cause him damage. If Seb wanted to do that he would've done it with a lot more speed, a lot more force, and not wheel face to wheel face contact. 

Once again, this is not me condoning it, we can all accept in principle it was wrong but we're just haggling over the penalty. Which, to me, was about right.
The speed is completely irrelevant. You cannot drive into another driver deliberately out of anger, regardless of speed. Had a piece of one of the cars come off and hit a marshall because of it then we may have had a fatality on our hands - that is the seriousness of this sport.

In football, it doesn't matter how slowly you headbutt a player, a headbutt is a straight red card and three game ban. Now I'm not saying Seb should get a three race ban, but a black flag or one race ban would've not only taught him a lesson but also served as a warning to the junior formulae.

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DRAMA

SO MUCH DRAMA


STUFF THE RACING, F1 IS ABOUT POST-RACE DRAMA

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fIsince08 said:
VetteIfan said:
You see that's where I guess we just differ in opinion, because to me the speed of collision very much does matter because it goes some way to backing up the
intentions for contact. In Seb's case it was to basically prove a point and let Lewis know of his annoyance. This is in stark contrast to something like the Maldonado incident, where he was simply trying to wipe Lewis out and cause him damage. If Seb wanted to do that he would've done it with a lot more speed, a lot more force, and not wheel face to wheel face contact. 

Once again, this is not me condoning it, we can all accept in principle it was wrong but we're just haggling over the penalty. Which, to me, was about right.
The speed is completely irrelevant. You cannot drive into another driver deliberately out of anger, regardless of speed. Had a piece of one of the cars come off and hit a marshall because of it then we may have had a fatality on our hands - that is the seriousness of this sport.

In football, it doesn't matter how slowly you headbutt a player, a headbutt is a straight red card and three game ban. Now I'm not saying Seb should get a three race ban, but a black flag or one race ban would've not only taught him a lesson but also served as a warning to the junior formulae.
That's a bit OTT, at that speed nothing would have the speed to fly off and kill anyone....

But IMO any intentional contact should be an instant black flag no questions asked, it simply cannot be tolerated in Formula 1 or any motorsport. The severity of the contact then should be judged with further disqualifications. For example, today only a DSQ for this race would suffice since it was at low speed whereas when Maldonado crashed into Hamilton at Spa, he should have been banned from that race and the next because it was at a higher pace and more dangerous.

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Did we ever see Vettel's T-cam of the incident. All I remember was the cam behind the head which blocked the view of the right hand. I was under the impression that he lost control because he took both hands off the wheel and it wasn't really malicious. But I'm sure the stewards would have seen that view which may be why he escaped with only a stop/go.

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Jiggy said:
Lance Stroll has taken over lads. No more banter, just business.
LANCE STROLL HAS TAKEN OVER

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Hughesy said:
Oh look Grosjean is crying about the brakes again, no idea why people think he's good enough for Ferrari....
You're having problems letting things go, don't you?

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Did we ever see Vettel's T-cam of the incident. All I remember was the cam behind the head which blocked the view of the right hand. I was under the impression that he lost control because he took both hands off the wheel and it wasn't really malicious. But I'm sure the stewards would have seen that view which may be why he escaped with only a stop/go.
That's exactly what I've been thinking.
Everyone is going on about how he *deliberately* drove into Lewis, but he may as well misjudged the distance between the cars and/or lost control since he only had one hand on the steering wheel.

Now, that doesn't excuse any of this, he should have kept his cool, but I highly doubt he seriously wanted to drive into Lewis to show his frustration. To me it looks like it was unintentional.

That being said, as to how to punish an incident like this and if the the 10-second penalty was enough, well, I'm glad I'm not a race steward, let's put it that way.

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For those trying to justify what he did because he 'may' have taken his hand off the wheel, or 'may' have lost control. Just watch the replays, he hasn't lost control, and how often do F1 drivers only use 1 hand while changing something on the wheel? They don't lose control then do they? Remember when F1  drivers used to take one hand off the wheel at full speed to block the f-duct hole? They didn't lose control then either.

Vettel's right hand was on the wheel, and he intentionally drove into the side of Hamilton because he was having a childish fit of rage. Deal with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSTp7q43zeQ

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Yeah? That's it? Well, thank god we have RevolvingPrawn for clearing that one right up.

But seriously, look at the incident again. Seb drives alongside him, waves his hand around, looks only at Lewis, and it seems like he drives into him because he didn't adjust his steering wheel quickly enough. In fact, he barley moves his hand as soon as he's along side Lewis, it doesn't look like he intentionally tries to ram him.

As for the example with the F duct, they weren't exactly looking into a different direction and waving their hands about when they operated them. Again, what Seb did was idiotic, but I still don't think it was deliberate.

Deal with that one.

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