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Is Dirt 4 dying

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dgeesi0 said:
well it depends on the audience they were aiming for doesnt it ?

Dirt rally was hardcore for the sim crowd . Dirt 2/3 and so on are normally for the arcade simcade whatever you want to call it.
Gamer or Sim.  One size fits all...

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PaloSamo said:
versedi said:
Get your head over the fact it's not an Early Access.

That's even more worrying. They should nail it at first attempt (given experience with DR and it's EA).
That is. No big changes are expected. Paul suggested something similar. So, versedi, clear yourself, if it's not EA, will we see big patches? I don't think so.

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edgenz said:
Think it's an expected pattern after launch to be fair.
Especially on the back of the summer sale. I picked up Civ5 and have been playing that all week. Will likely resume normal D4 activity in a week or two.
It's also summer for Dirt Rally and more people is playing it now than a month before. I am afraid it's not that case.

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versedi said:
Underkex said:
I think another Big issue is the different type of games DR and D4 are. DR had, and has, its problems but we appreciated the effort and the improvements, great early access. But I can't stop feeling that D4 is this and no Big patches or improvements are going to be made.
How do you know that?

I'm pretty sure there will be an update to current handling.

Get your head over the fact it's not an Early Access.

It's not just handling. Generated stages is another big issue. We need at least some real or at least "designed" stages, not random, repeating themselves tiles with same corners.

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KevM said:
...had all the potential...but for some reason, was sent out with a mix-mash of both awesomeness & tragic failings...

I would say the same of all CodeMasters games over the last few years (and of many other games across the industry as well).

It's like game companies just can't help themselves from baking a sweet, moist, delicious cake and then slathering it with mustard for icing. It's like getting fans hyped for an awesome new Star Wars movie, and then making the entire plot about the return & rise of Jar Jar Binks. I don't understand why they continue souring good things.

I'm tired of hearing how almost every release has "potential as a foundation to build on," but years pass & all that potential never seems to come to fruition. Each new release seems to be full of substantial shortcomings and is spun again as yet another "starting point to build on." I don't want to buy & play "starting points." I want to buy & play quality games.


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Underkex said:
edgenz said:
Think it's an expected pattern after launch to be fair.
Especially on the back of the summer sale. I picked up Civ5 and have been playing that all week. Will likely resume normal D4 activity in a week or two.
It's also summer for Dirt Rally and more people is playing it now than a month before. I am afraid it's not that case.
Now you'd hope they'd all be playing D4, granted. But I imagine there's more to those numbers than just "Dirt4 sucks".

What was happening a month ago tho? (Hint: Dirt 4 launch).
I didn't see many regulars playing DR in the weeks & days leading up to launch.

DR users now are also likely spiking due to the Steam sale (DR cheap as chips).

There are also some sticky-ness factors with DR like VR and leagues - so you'd assume the game will maintain a consistent base until D4 supports those.

I'm sure a bunch are disgruntled D4 users either comparing the handling or just going back to what they like. But I wouldn't read too much into a basic last month comparison yet.

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D4 is a "complete game" not a early access like DR so.... why some bugs and erratic behaviors came back from the begining of DR?: slow and unrealistic sequential shifting, poor optimisation on pc, self-alive wipers, erratic AI, erractic pacenotes timming, arcadish "sim" physics, no automatic selection of gearbox type, unrealistic gearbox ratios tunning, no online clubs, lots of bugs, no support/hard to configure for pc periphericals, no no-cheating mod support (skins, better camera angles,etc...).  If codies say D4 is a finished product that took the best things from DR EA experience we can hope to not seen same mistakes again.  

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PaloSamo said:
versedi said:
Get your head over the fact it's not an Early Access.

That's even more worrying. They should nail it at first attempt (given experience with DR and it's EA).
I don't think so. If the launch date was set they couldn't/didn't want to change that even if there was some issue recognized.

@grancab said:
D4 is a "complete game" not a early access like DR so.... why some bugs and erratic behaviors came back from the begining of DR?: 
In my experience every, every single game that get's released in last 5 years HAS to be patched after release. Why? Read above. 


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versedi said:
PaloSamo said:
versedi said:
Get your head over the fact it's not an Early Access.

That's even more worrying. They should nail it at first attempt (given experience with DR and it's EA).
I don't think so. If the launch date was set they couldn't/didn't want to change that even if there was some issue recognized.

@grancab said:
D4 is a "complete game" not a early access like DR so.... why some bugs and erratic behaviors came back from the begining of DR?: 
In my experience every, every single game that get's released in last 5 years HAS to be patched after release. Why? Read above. 


And we did get a bug-healing patch after release. Underkex was referring to a Big Handling Patch (or something similar).

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versedi said:
PaloSamo said:
versedi said:
Get your head over the fact it's not an Early Access.

That's even more worrying. They should nail it at first attempt (given experience with DR and it's EA).
I don't think so. If the launch date was set they couldn't/didn't want to change that even if there was some issue recognized.

@grancab said:
D4 is a "complete game" not a early access like DR so.... why some bugs and erratic behaviors came back from the begining of DR?: 
In my experience every, every single game that get's released in last 5 years HAS to be patched after release. Why? Read above. 


they had to patch the same thing alredy patched on Dirt Rally? really? once again?  do you think this is normal?
five years to fix the concerns about gearboxes? five years and they manage PC periphericals worse than before?

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Underkex said:
I really don't understand these hardcore supporters of Dirt 4. 
May CM hire them to post positive feedbacks? :D  I'm just joking, for sure.

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grancab said:

 do you think this is normal?

If by normal you mean what every other studio is doing then yes.
If by normal you mean if it's OK, then I don't have answer for that because it's subjective matter.  

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Since I played Dirt Rally again, after two weeks of playing Dirt 4, I am thinking about klicking the Dirt 4 Icon again any time I want to rally, instead of klicking the Dirt Rally Icon. But, no, I always klick the Dirt Rally Icon.

I think there a some points to make me playing DR instead of D4:
  • The allover handling of the cars feels sooo awesome to me. I can feel the gravel much more. My Wheel is shaking, I feel small bumps. I can oversteer nice.
  • I can load my own created setups. I D4 I cant load them anymore, cause my engineer has dropped one point.
  • I know the stages, but - I don't know - they make more fun to me, than the "Your-Stage"-generated tracks.
  • The loading time back to menue is about 3 seconds and not about 30 seconds in D4. In D4 is see more loading screens than I race.
  • My TrackIR 5 is working (yes, I want to watch out of the side window while I am drifting). So much more immersion


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Vannipo said:
  • The loading time back to menue is about 3 seconds and not about 30 seconds in D4. In D4 is see more loading screens than I race.
Also the time for the race/stage to start is much shorter. In Dirt 4 you have to sit and look at a cockpit for about 8 seconds for drama. And when you restart you need to endure it again.

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Operator1 said:
It's like getting fans hyped for an awesome new Star Wars movie, and then making the entire plot about the return & rise of Jar Jar Binks. 

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PaloSamo said:
versedi said:
Get your head over the fact it's not an Early Access.

That's even more worrying. They should nail it at first attempt (given experience with DR and it's EA).


Yeah in a perfect world. I'd love it. These days game devs don't nail games upon release. They get the game as close as possible with the intent of patching the rest. And if it did happen, it's a rarity.


And if EA has it's hands in it, they're probably the reason it wasn't nailed upon release! lol well, I am exaggerating.....  a bit.

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Narzugon said:
PaloSamo said:
versedi said:
Get your head over the fact it's not an Early Access.

That's even more worrying. They should nail it at first attempt (given experience with DR and it's EA).


Yeah in a perfect world. I'd love it. These days game devs don't nail games upon release. They get the game as close as possible with the intent of patching the rest. And if it did happen, it's a rarity.


And if EA has it's hands in it, they're probably the reason it wasn't nailed upon release! lol well, I am exaggerating.....  a bit.

EA stands for Early Acces in this instance bro ;)

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Well, I'm back to DR. With D4 I don't like the physics, the generated tracks is no good - driving the same corners 4 times in one stage is just stupid, and lack of VR support is the absolute dealbreaker for me. 

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https://pretendracecars.net/2017/06/28/dirt-4-crashes-and-burns-on-steam-is-handling-to-blame/

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Got the platinum and then nearly got my money back in full via eBay. It was a real ordeal completing those final, LONG, stages. Same corner after same corner after same corner.

Very lazy game I'd say.... I bet the directors got together and thought.... Right then, we created a superb game with DiRT Rally, but by heck it was hard work designing those tracks. One bright spark says, I know, we'll make a few pathetic tiles and join them randomly.... Our work time will be cut by a massive 90% and we'll still make millions!

Yea, well, next game you put out.... I'm not buying!

Fire the chump who's bright idea it was to make the your stage crap!

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Alf72 said:
https://pretendracecars.net/2017/06/28/dirt-4-crashes-and-burns-on-steam-is-handling-to-blame/
I think that was a scathing, but well-written piece. Of course it needs to be taken with some perspective as it's specifically addressing what sim racers wanted and expected, but I think the author basically hit the nail on the head. Community involvement would have gone a long, long way towards curbing this type of response, but that ship has basically sailed.

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ShodanCat said:
Alf72 said:
https://pretendracecars.net/2017/06/28/dirt-4-crashes-and-burns-on-steam-is-handling-to-blame/
I think that was a scathing, but well-written piece. Of course it needs to be taken with some perspective as it's specifically addressing what sim racers wanted and expected, but I think the author basically hit the nail on the head. Community involvement would have gone a long, long way towards curbing this type of response, but that ship has basically sailed.
He is right with pretty much everything he said.  But yes, I agree that SOME kind of response from Codemasters  since release would have been really nice and would help with these kind of articles and the backlash of the sim racing community.  If we don't get a road book on Friday acknowledging the issues and their plans, or in the very least a post in the forums with some kind of info right now D4 is a waste of 60$ for me.  I've shelved it till they can work out the issues with the physics and My Stage.  It has so much potential too, that's what is so frustrating.

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Feels like I've been cheating on D4 after I bought Civ 5 during the steam sale...

Not sure why it took me this long to get into the franchise... and it's unfortunate for my D4 time that it's looking like one of my favourite all time games  :|
I've played 4 Civ sessions in total. Three of them work nights  :#

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The more I play Dirt 4, the more things I see that no other rally game is doing. 

- The weather system is unmatched.
- Day cycle and lighting is unmatched.
- Even with limited tiles, Your Stage is great. It truly captures the rally experience better than anything out there. I don't care how iconic Ouninpoujha or Sweet Lamb is, if I have memorised the stage, its not rally. (I certainly would like more tiles though)
- Co-driver is unmatched. And we have two different ones for English.

Now, there are issues with the handling. On some cars more than others, and definitely on every RWD car. If your main purpose of this game is to experience good simulation of RWD historic cars, then I believe this game would be a serious disappointment.
But I prefer modern cars, and the simulation is enjoyable for the most part.

As for Dirt Rally, the only reason I would play that now is for the WRC cars. Other than that, Dirt 4 is more enjoyable.

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Sho846 said:
The more I play Dirt 4, the more things I see that no other rally game is doing. 

- The weather system is unmatched.
- Day cycle and lighting is unmatched.
- Even with limited tiles, Your Stage is great. It truly captures the rally experience better than anything out there. I don't care how iconic Ouninpoujha or Sweet Lamb is, if I have memorised the stage, its not rally. (I certainly would like more tiles though)
- Co-driver is unmatched. And we have two different ones for English.

Now, there are issues with the handling. On some cars more than others, and definitely on every RWD car. If your main purpose of this game is to experience good simulation of RWD historic cars, then I believe this game would be a serious disappointment.
But I prefer modern cars, and the simulation is enjoyable for the most part.

As for Dirt Rally, the only reason I would play that now is for the WRC cars. Other than that, Dirt 4 is more enjoyable.

This is pretty much my sentiment too. I loved Dirt Rally, but I've played it enough that the courses, while high quality, are too familiar. Yeah the tiles in D4 become familiar too (especially in Michigan), but the fact that they're put together randomly is enough for me for now. More variation is certainly needed, though.

I also really hope they can fix the default tuning setups, as for many cars they're awful.

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