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Magnussen is young enough to take a year or two out and stick with Mclaren as their third driver ready for when either Button or/and Alonso retires, which as you say they're getting into the twilight years of their careers so it wouldn't be much to wait. Plus he would learn a heck of a lot from being in the same team as both Alonso and Button. Several drivers have done this before, driving a season then taking a year or a few to develop before returning. Alonso himself did it, as did Hulkenberg and Grosjean and all of them came back better drivers for it.
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Magnussen is young enough to take a year or two out and stick with Mclaren as their third driver ready for when either Button or/and Alonso retires, which as you say they're getting into the twilight years of their careers so it wouldn't be much to wait. Plus he would learn a heck of a lot from being in the same team as both Alonso and Button. Several drivers have done this before, driving a season then taking a year or a few to develop before returning. Alonso himself did it, as did Hulkenberg and Grosjean and all of them came back better drivers for it.
I'd have never thought Grosjean would come back to F1 after his 2009 season.
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AMS97KRR said:
Is it really fair to drop KM after 1 season? I'd personally like it if Button went to Williams and KM stayed at McLaren but that is not a realistic thing. 
McLaren already ditched Perez, KM might be next. Can't imagine young drivers will have too much confidence in McLaren after dropping two young guys in two years.


Also, is having two drivers over 33 really a great idea? 2 drivers who are only going to get worse in one team. Hmmm. I'd go with KM and FA. Magnussen would really benefit from 2 or so years with Alonso.
I think its fair because they're dropping him for better drivers. This isn't McLaren bringing in a worse driver who provides them with more money like some moves on the lower end of the grid.

Having two experienced drivers is a good idea imo as it will allow McLaren and Honda to develop easier. Two years of Alonso/Button developing a car will push the team forward and allow KM to step back into the seat with a car that should be capable of winning races.
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Me neither. That GP2-season where he dominated everyone and everything saved his bacon. Well, that and no Kubica.

I also wouldn't say that taking a step back as a test driver makes one better. It didn't for the likes of Hulkenberg and Grosjean. In Grosjean's case, it wasn't the case of a F1-driver perfecting his craft behind the scenes, it was Grosjean brought in way too early after Piquet got fired. He obviously wasn't ready to even be a F1-driver and neither was Alguersuari who came in around the same time, but the lack of testing meant that both drivers had no opportunities to do some testing and get a proper feel of a F1-car. A very different situation compared to Fernando Alonso, who tested for Benetton/Renault in 2001, even though he was driving for Minardi in 01 and in 2002, where he racked up over a thousand laps. They don't have that kind of opportunity today. Grosjean then left F1 and went to sportscars-racing and AutoGP, until he became a reserve driver for Renault. But that didn't help him one bit, he barely did any miles in a F1-car, he was one of 5 reserve drivers and when they actually needed one after Heidfeld left, they picked Senna who wasn't even on the list. If it wasn't for his performances in the GP2 at youth team DAMS, he wouldn't even got a chance to do some sessions at a Friday that year.


And I actually believe Hülkenberg would've been much better off racing in 2011 for Williams, instead of being limited to a couple of Friday FP-sessions for Force India. That didn't make him better. I'd go as far to say that it somewhat hampered his career. He could've been at Mercedes right now if he stayed relevant in 2011 and won races with Williams in 2012. Testing in 2014 is incompareable with 2002, so the Alonso-argument wouldn't be applicable to Magnussen.
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AMS97KRR said:
Is it really fair to drop KM after 1 season? I'd personally like it if Button went to Williams and KM stayed at McLaren but that is not a realistic thing. 
McLaren already ditched Perez, KM might be next. Can't imagine young drivers will have too much confidence in McLaren after dropping two young guys in two years.


Also, is having two drivers over 33 really a great idea? 2 drivers who are only going to get worse in one team. Hmmm. I'd go with KM and FA. Magnussen would really benefit from 2 or so years with Alonso.
Yes but Magnussen still has plenty of time on his hands so if Mclaren still want him after 2/3 years they can sign him when JB retires. It makes zero sense to sign up a driver who is being beaten pretty comprehensively by his team mate. I mean , why would you do that ? 
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Long term potential over short-term results. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I'd imagine McLaren might expect that this new direction, including the engine deal with Honda, won't display serious results until around 2016. Might as well have Magnussen, branded as a future World Champion, to feel as comfortable as possible, while learning from Alonso as his team-mate, instead of sitting at the sidelines doing nothing. Or have Button driving around, knowing you probably won't win any title in 2015 and him being set to leave anyway within the next 3 seasons.
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Platy said:
AMS97KRR said:
Is it really fair to drop KM after 1 season? I'd personally like it if Button went to Williams and KM stayed at McLaren but that is not a realistic thing. 
McLaren already ditched Perez, KM might be next. Can't imagine young drivers will have too much confidence in McLaren after dropping two young guys in two years.


Also, is having two drivers over 33 really a great idea? 2 drivers who are only going to get worse in one team. Hmmm. I'd go with KM and FA. Magnussen would really benefit from 2 or so years with Alonso.
I think its fair because they're dropping him for better drivers. This isn't McLaren bringing in a worse driver who provides them with more money like some moves on the lower end of the grid.

Having two experienced drivers is a good idea imo as it will allow McLaren and Honda to develop easier. Two years of Alonso/Button developing a car will push the team forward and allow KM to step back into the seat with a car that should be capable of winning races.
You make a good point, but what if at the end of 2016 both Alonso and Button leave, you are left with a guy who hasn't driven for 2 years and whoever else they can find. I'd personally give KM that time in the car before they get a title winning car. And if they get a great car next year, they'll still have Alonso who will win it given the chance.
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Alonso has apparently said he wants Button to stay in F1. He hasn't said as a team mate, likely because that would prematurely be confirming he is signing for Mclaren which he obviously doesn't want to do yet and Boullier is apparently also in favour of Button. It's Dennis that's holding things up at the moment from what I gather.
(Though I am getting that from your basic F1 news websites so how accurate they are well you'll probably all know better than me!).

Alonso and Button in my opinion just seems the most logical move at this time to jump start the new Honda era. I can't think of one negative to it (except perhaps their ages but if they're still at top level that shouldn't matter.) But Mclaren's track record of bad decisions in recent years...leave me a little disquiet.
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It'd be a great line-up, maybe the best one on the grid along with Raikkonen-Vettel and Hamilton-Rosberg but I think youth deserves a chance, if it screws up, Alonso can carry you for a year (Has done it for Ferrari multiple times) and maybe you can re-sign Button or get someone else in.
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It would be sad to see Button go without a proper send off. So I don't want him to get the boot and be out of F1. But I also understand that the better long term plan for McLaren is to keep Mags (assuming Alonso is coming to McLaren). If that's what McLaren do I just hope that Button finds a seat somewhere else so he can end his career on his own terms.

Although my vote would be to keep Button over Mags.. mostly because I don't think Mags is that special.
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Jiggy said:
Long term potential over short-term results. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I'd imagine McLaren might expect that this new direction, including the engine deal with Honda, won't display serious results until around 2016. Might as well have Magnussen, branded as a future World Champion, to feel as comfortable as possible, while learning from Alonso as his team-mate, instead of sitting at the sidelines doing nothing. Or have Button driving around, knowing you probably won't win any title in 2015 and him being set to leave anyway within the next 3 seasons.
This is what I'm thinking. Button is performing better at the moment for sure, but if it's going to be 2/3 years before they are world title challengers it seems a bit pointless Magnussen not being in the car even if they may lose out on 4th vs 5th place in the WCC (or something along those lines). Mclaren aren't a team particularly hard up for cash, and you may as well have Magnussen fully honed for THAT season when they plan to be world beaters. It's difficult though. A few weeks ago I was saying keep Magnussen for sure but keeping Button for the next year or two based on current performance is getting towards being a tough call. 

Lets not forget in all this Button has said that he wouldn't necessarily accept an contract extension even if it was handed to him. Perhaps the thought is running through his head that he will probably spend the next season at least running just behind the absolute front-runners, whilst developing a new Honda engine that when fully optimised he may never get to experience. He said in an interview a few years back he can't see himself reaching 300 races. That's only two full seasons away at the end of this year. 


At the end of the day Mclaren may have been better just sticking with Button and Magnussen. The fact Alonso was pushing for a one year deal shows he isn't exactly committed to the Mclaren cause, and may in fact just be using them as a stepping stone for a better seat to open up elsewhere at the end of next season. 
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AMS97KRR said:
It'd be a great line-up, maybe the best one on the grid along with Raikkonen-Vettel and Hamilton-Rosberg but I think youth deserves a chance, if it screws up, Alonso can carry you for a year (Has done it for Ferrari multiple times) and maybe you can re-sign Button or get someone else in.
I doubt that I think if they chose Magnusson over him he'd walk and I doubt he'd come back not at his age. It's a case of use me or lose me while he's in that condition as I think he's still got a couple of years at the top but anything more beyond that could be asking a lot. So really McLaren need to decide whether they want o get another 2 years worth of F1 experience out of him while Honda re-establish themselves and allow him to be part of that or he leaves F1 for good. Personally for me I'd keep him and use Magnusson as a 3rd driver and help him develop for when one of them does stand down as both drivers are coming towards the end of their careers so Magnusson wouldn't have to wait long for another shot. Magnusson still has time on his side so he can leave and come back in whereas Button doesn't have that luxury.
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And if Alonso does up and leave at the end of 2015 and they didn't keep Button then where would they be? They wouldn't have a "star" driver at all unless they managed to sway Hamilton back. At least by keeping Button, if Alonso does leave then they can just revert to this seasons lineup and start getting Vandoorne ready for when Button finally retires and Magnussen would be experienced enough to lead the team. Obviously I don't know what happens on the inside but from the outside I cannot see any good reason why they shouldn't keep him on. It appears a lot more risky giving him the boot while Alonso is still a bit of a loose cannon. They could have two star drivers in the car next year or end up with none in 2016.
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VetteIfan said:
Jiggy said:
Long term potential over short-term results. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I'd imagine McLaren might expect that this new direction, including the engine deal with Honda, won't display serious results until around 2016. Might as well have Magnussen, branded as a future World Champion, to feel as comfortable as possible, while learning from Alonso as his team-mate, instead of sitting at the sidelines doing nothing. Or have Button driving around, knowing you probably won't win any title in 2015 and him being set to leave anyway within the next 3 seasons.
This is what I'm thinking. Button is performing better at the moment for sure, but if it's going to be 2/3 years before they are world title challengers it seems a bit pointless Magnussen not being in the car even if they may lose out on 4th vs 5th place in the WCC (or something along those lines). Mclaren aren't a team particularly hard up for cash, and you may as well have Magnussen fully honed for THAT season when they plan to be world beaters. It's difficult though. A few weeks ago I was saying keep Magnussen for sure but keeping Button for the next year or two based on current performance is getting towards being a tough call. 

Lets not forget in all this Button has said that he wouldn't necessarily accept an contract extension even if it was handed to him. Perhaps the thought is running through his head that he will probably spend the next season at least running just behind the absolute front-runners, whilst developing a new Honda engine that when fully optimised he may never get to experience. He said in an interview a few years back he can't see himself reaching 300 races. That's only two full seasons away at the end of this year. 


At the end of the day Mclaren may have been better just sticking with Button and Magnussen. The fact Alonso was pushing for a one year deal shows he isn't exactly committed to the Mclaren cause, and may in fact just be using them as a stepping stone for a better seat to open up elsewhere at the end of next season.

Forgot about the Alonso-factor and how loyal he might (not) be to the cause. It's unfortunate for Button, because he's in top form, but anyone would second-guess passing up on Alonso. The fact that nobody up and until now has mentioned the possibility of leaving Alonso be and continue with Button and Magnussen says something about how highly rated Alonso is. But if 2015 turns out to be a development year, that exact line-up might be the most convienient one. And I'm not sure which one between Alonso and Button is better at developmental work. I'm guessing Button.
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Jiggy said:
VetteIfan said:
Jiggy said:
Long term potential over short-term results. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I'd imagine McLaren might expect that this new direction, including the engine deal with Honda, won't display serious results until around 2016. Might as well have Magnussen, branded as a future World Champion, to feel as comfortable as possible, while learning from Alonso as his team-mate, instead of sitting at the sidelines doing nothing. Or have Button driving around, knowing you probably won't win any title in 2015 and him being set to leave anyway within the next 3 seasons.
This is what I'm thinking. Button is performing better at the moment for sure, but if it's going to be 2/3 years before they are world title challengers it seems a bit pointless Magnussen not being in the car even if they may lose out on 4th vs 5th place in the WCC (or something along those lines). Mclaren aren't a team particularly hard up for cash, and you may as well have Magnussen fully honed for THAT season when they plan to be world beaters. It's difficult though. A few weeks ago I was saying keep Magnussen for sure but keeping Button for the next year or two based on current performance is getting towards being a tough call. 

Lets not forget in all this Button has said that he wouldn't necessarily accept an contract extension even if it was handed to him. Perhaps the thought is running through his head that he will probably spend the next season at least running just behind the absolute front-runners, whilst developing a new Honda engine that when fully optimised he may never get to experience. He said in an interview a few years back he can't see himself reaching 300 races. That's only two full seasons away at the end of this year. 


At the end of the day Mclaren may have been better just sticking with Button and Magnussen. The fact Alonso was pushing for a one year deal shows he isn't exactly committed to the Mclaren cause, and may in fact just be using them as a stepping stone for a better seat to open up elsewhere at the end of next season.

Forgot about the Alonso-factor and how loyal he might (not) be to the cause. It's unfortunate for Button, because he's in top form, but anyone would second-guess passing up on Alonso. The fact that nobody up and until now has mentioned the possibility of leaving Alonso be and continue with Button and Magnussen says something about how highly rated Alonso is. But if 2015 turns out to be a development year, that exact line-up might be the most convienient one. And I'm not sure which one between Alonso and Button is better at developmental work. I'm guessing Button.
That's why for me I'd hang onto Button and drop Magnusson to reserve driver unless somebody else wants him.
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I wonder if Mclaren could be as vicious as to get rid of Jenson without a sendoff. If I didn't think they were capable of something like that I would take that as basically saying Alonso/Button next season but they are vicious when it comes to that sort of thing. They would end up losing even more fans not announcing Jenson's leaving and then not keeping him than if they just announced he was leaving.
If Jenson's leaving it wouldn't surprise me if he announces his own retirement at Abu Dhabi basically confirming Mclaren's lineup anyway.
On one hand I'm hopeful that that means Jenson will remain, but on the other I know Mclaren aren't known for being particularly warm in these situations. I remain disquiet.
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I wonder if Mclaren could be as vicious as to get rid of Jenson without a sendoff. If I didn't think they were capable of something like that I would take that as basically saying Alonso/Button next season but they are vicious when it comes to that sort of thing. They would end up losing even more fans not announcing Jenson's leaving and then not keeping him than if they just announced he was leaving.
If Jenson's leaving it wouldn't surprise me if he announces his own retirement at Abu Dhabi basically confirming Mclaren's lineup anyway.
On one hand I'm hopeful that that means Jenson will remain, but on the other I know Mclaren aren't known for being particularly warm in these situations. I remain disquiet.
Butt hurt much ?

I agree Jenson should stay but to say Mclaren are ''vicious'' if they don't give him a sendoff is just stupid. They aren't obliged to give him a send off you know. It just makes you come across as , well , like I say ... butt hurt.
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I don't even know what this term "butt hurt" means but going by the context I imagine you mean I'm sounding upset at the way they're running things? If you actually read into what I said you'd know what I mean.
I mean they are ruthless in their operation, something I actually respect as it generally gets the best out of their drivers as they would  understand that when they sign for them. They've done it in the past, most recently last season with Perez. They left him waiting and when they finally announced it was nearly too late for him. I think it would be unfortunate if they didn't announce it and then reveal after the race that Jenson is leaving. Which is why I then went on to say that it wouldn't surprise me if Jenson himself announced his own retirement. Then I speculate possible meanings.
I'm a bit surprised I'm having to explain that post.
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I don't even know what this term "butt hurt" means but going by the context I imagine you mean I'm sounding upset at the way they're running things? If you actually read into what I said you'd know what I mean.
I mean they are ruthless in their operation, something I actually respect as it generally gets the best out of their drivers as they would  understand that when they sign for them. They've done it in the past, most recently last season with Perez. They left him waiting and when they finally announced it was nearly too late for him. I think it would be unfortunate if they didn't announce it and then reveal after the race that Jenson is leaving. Which is why I then went on to say that it wouldn't surprise me if Jenson himself announced his own retirement. Then I speculate possible meanings.
I'm a bit surprised I'm having to explain that post.
You are presuming I didn't read it. I did. Mclaren don't have to announce anything before Abu Dhabi though.  They fired one driver late in the year and that warrants their system as ''vicious'' ? Really ? They were entirely right to do what they did to Perez anyway. Mclaren are a business and their interests don't lie in Perez or Button.They lie in Mclaren . Also your first post cam across as very angry to me. Maybe it's the wording that got me but to me it seems as though you've completely changed your tune compared to the first post. It's probably just me though. Also , sorry if that first post came across as too harsh. After reading it again , it does to me.
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Classic Mclaren statement. Most normal teams will issue a date they'll have their drivers decided before, but Mclaren being Mclaren post a date that they're going to decide after.

"After December 1st" is hardly accurate anyway. We'll probably be waiting till March still. 
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VetteIfan said:
Classic Mclaren statement. Most normal teams will issue a date they'll have their drivers decided before, but Mclaren being Mclaren post a date that they're going to decide after.

"After December 1st" is hardly accurate anyway. We'll probably be waiting till March still. 
Anyone remember the Force India photo shops a few years ago of the car unveiling with two black figures with hoods ? (Or something along them lines)
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