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Kevin needs to improve before he gets back to the F1 level... if he is going to wait around in the background for a seat..

As a Honda car and bike owner and with Alonso and Button teamed I may be the biggest honda fan boy next year...
My dad owns an Accord and he's a big Honda fan (as I am ) so count me in as well :p
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My stepdad rides a red and silver Honda VFR 750 and his lawn mower is a red and silver Honda. Hoping for a return of the classic McLaren livery but maybe white the white bits silver this time? :)
I cannot stand McLaren but I hope the Movistar rumours are true as if they used it right they could have the best looking car on the grid. Anything like these two would be great

httpdwnloadwallpaperscomwp-contentuploads201405Honda-Cbr-600-Rr-Movistarjpg
httpecomodelismocomECO_imgArtTAMITAMI-14083jpg


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R.I.P.

The F1-career of Kevin Magnussen

2014-2014

As funny as this is, it's also probably true. Magnussen's career is done. He has no financial backing of his own and McLaren doesn't have a Toro Rosso helping him out either. He's probably going to stay on doing absolutely nothing as the reserve driver, while Vandoorne will probably surpass him if he does well (i.e. win the title) in whatever race class he's in. McLaren ruined one of their talents by bringing him in way too early. Vandoorne probably won't be impressed with this either.
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Personally, I would've kept both Magnussen and Button and told Alonso to suck it. You're not going to win the championship next year anyway.

But at least Button stays in F1. His excellent performances this season probably broke the deal.










And of course, it also means one more season of:


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Jiggy said:
Personally, I would've kept both Magnussen and Button and told Alonso to suck it. You're not going to win the championship next year anyway.

But at least Button stays in F1. His excellent performances this season probably broke the deal.

If you'd keep Magnussen over Alonso its probably a good job you're not in a position to make that kind of decision
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APR193 said:
Jiggy said:
Personally, I would've kept both Magnussen and Button and told Alonso to suck it. You're not going to win the championship next year anyway.

But at least Button stays in F1. His excellent performances this season probably broke the deal.

If you'd keep Magnussen over Alonso its probably a good job you're not in a position to make that kind of decision
It's easy to say that. You're not taking into account the possibility of Magnussen developing and Alonso declining. We saw it happening rather quickly with Grosjean and Raikkonen. Alonso in 2014 wasn't as good as Alonso in 2012. The first signs of one's speed dropping is his qualifying performances. That dropped dramatically for Alonso in recent seasons. He has changed his style into one based more on consistency and intelligence than on explosive pace. That aspect is gone. Going back to Raikkönen, last season he was leading the championship out of consistency in the first couple of races. Grosjean was nowhere to be seen. Then Grosjean found a way to get his explosive pace from 2012 back without crashing all the time and Raikkönen couldn't keep up at all. And Kimi's driving style, how it developed over time, is looking scarily similar than Alonso's, except for it happening faster. So assuming that the first real shot at winning the title happens in 2016, by that time Magnussen could've been in a position to regularly beat Alonso. That is, if McLaren truly believed in his reputation as a future World Champion. Apparently they don't. Sensible long-term planning would've meant sticking by Magnussen at all costs.


Also, if 2015 is going to be a year of development, Button would be more suitable than Alonso, who in his years at Ferrari never got the repuation as a driver that contributes greatly to the development of his car as the season progresses. Alonso is purely the driver they need to get results, but in 2015, there is a big chance they won't be in a position to get winning results on a regular basis anyway. They don't desperately need Alonso, but his reputation means it's irresistible to pass up on him. By demoting Magnussen, McLaren is acknowledging that they messed up and that trying to do a Red Bull is something they cannot do. It makes Hamilton's success look more like a fluke for their Academy. And signing Alonso is yet again a risk that could backfire real hard on them. Their relationship has been rocky in the past to say the least and as Vettelfan showed, it's not that farfetched to think he won't jump ship for 2016 because at this point he's desperate to be in the best car.


So long story short, 2015 is probably going to be more about development, so keeping Button for that, while also keeping Magnussen to lead them in the seasons beyond 2015 would be the best choice. Now we have a situation where you don't know if Alonso is willing to stay for much longer than a year and whether Magnussen is ready by the team he does leave.
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Jiggy said:
APR193 said:
Jiggy said:
Personally, I would've kept both Magnussen and Button and told Alonso to suck it. You're not going to win the championship next year anyway.

But at least Button stays in F1. His excellent performances this season probably broke the deal.

If you'd keep Magnussen over Alonso its probably a good job you're not in a position to make that kind of decision
It's easy to say that. You're not taking into account the possibility of Magnussen developing and Alonso declining. We saw it happening rather quickly with Grosjean and Raikkonen. Alonso in 2014 wasn't as good as Alonso in 2012. The first signs of one's speed dropping is his qualifying performances. That dropped dramatically for Alonso in recent seasons. He has changed his style into one based more on consistency and intelligence than on explosive pace. That aspect is gone. Going back to Raikkönen, last season he was leading the championship out of consistency in the first couple of races. Grosjean was nowhere to be seen. Then Grosjean found a way to get his explosive pace from 2012 back without crashing all the time and Raikkönen couldn't keep up at all. And Kimi's driving style, how it developed over time, is looking scarily similar than Alonso's, except for it happening faster. So assuming that the first real shot at winning the title happens in 2016, by that time Magnussen could've been in a position to regularly beat Alonso. That is, if McLaren truly believed in his reputation as a future World Champion. Apparently they don't. Sensible long-term planning would've meant sticking by Magnussen at all costs.


Also, if 2015 is going to be a year of development, Button would be more suitable than Alonso, who in his years at Ferrari never got the repuation as a driver that contributes greatly to the development of his car as the season progresses. Alonso is purely the driver they need to get results, but in 2015, there is a big chance they won't be in a position to get winning results on a regular basis anyway. They don't desperately need Alonso, but his reputation means it's irresistible to pass up on him. By demoting Magnussen, McLaren is acknowledging that they messed up and that trying to do a Red Bull is something they cannot do. It makes Hamilton's success look more like a fluke for their Academy. And signing Alonso is yet again a risk that could backfire real hard on them. Their relationship has been rocky in the past to say the least and as Vettelfan showed, it's not that farfetched to think he won't jump ship for 2016 because at this point he's desperate to be in the best car.


So long story short, 2015 is probably going to be more about development, so keeping Button for that, while also keeping Magnussen to lead them in the seasons beyond 2015 would be the best choice. Now we have a situation where you don't know if Alonso is willing to stay for much longer than a year and whether Magnussen is ready by the team he does leave.
If anything Alonso is getting better all the time. He's a better driver than he was when he won his championships. You say Alonso isn't known for being good at developing a car, but is Button? What has JB done to develop the McLaren over the last 2 years, if anything the McLaren was worse this year than 2013.

Also, of course Alonso wants a Mercedes. Saying he could jump ship at the end of the year if a Mercedes seat appears is kind of silly. If Kevin or Jenson were offered a McLaren or a Mercedes at the end of 2015 they'd both take the Mercedes as well
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APR193 said:
Jiggy said:
APR193 said:
Jiggy said:
Personally, I would've kept both Magnussen and Button and told Alonso to suck it. You're not going to win the championship next year anyway.

But at least Button stays in F1. His excellent performances this season probably broke the deal.

If you'd keep Magnussen over Alonso its probably a good job you're not in a position to make that kind of decision
It's easy to say that. You're not taking into account the possibility of Magnussen developing and Alonso declining. We saw it happening rather quickly with Grosjean and Raikkonen. Alonso in 2014 wasn't as good as Alonso in 2012. The first signs of one's speed dropping is his qualifying performances. That dropped dramatically for Alonso in recent seasons. He has changed his style into one based more on consistency and intelligence than on explosive pace. That aspect is gone. Going back to Raikkönen, last season he was leading the championship out of consistency in the first couple of races. Grosjean was nowhere to be seen. Then Grosjean found a way to get his explosive pace from 2012 back without crashing all the time and Raikkönen couldn't keep up at all. And Kimi's driving style, how it developed over time, is looking scarily similar than Alonso's, except for it happening faster. So assuming that the first real shot at winning the title happens in 2016, by that time Magnussen could've been in a position to regularly beat Alonso. That is, if McLaren truly believed in his reputation as a future World Champion. Apparently they don't. Sensible long-term planning would've meant sticking by Magnussen at all costs.


Also, if 2015 is going to be a year of development, Button would be more suitable than Alonso, who in his years at Ferrari never got the repuation as a driver that contributes greatly to the development of his car as the season progresses. Alonso is purely the driver they need to get results, but in 2015, there is a big chance they won't be in a position to get winning results on a regular basis anyway. They don't desperately need Alonso, but his reputation means it's irresistible to pass up on him. By demoting Magnussen, McLaren is acknowledging that they messed up and that trying to do a Red Bull is something they cannot do. It makes Hamilton's success look more like a fluke for their Academy. And signing Alonso is yet again a risk that could backfire real hard on them. Their relationship has been rocky in the past to say the least and as Vettelfan showed, it's not that farfetched to think he won't jump ship for 2016 because at this point he's desperate to be in the best car.


So long story short, 2015 is probably going to be more about development, so keeping Button for that, while also keeping Magnussen to lead them in the seasons beyond 2015 would be the best choice. Now we have a situation where you don't know if Alonso is willing to stay for much longer than a year and whether Magnussen is ready by the team he does leave.
If anything Alonso is getting better all the time. He's a better driver than he was when he won his championships. You say Alonso isn't known for being good at developing a car, but is Button? What has JB done to develop the McLaren over the last 2 years, if anything the McLaren was worse this year than 2013.

Also, of course Alonso wants a Mercedes. Saying he could jump ship at the end of the year if a Mercedes seat appears is kind of silly. If Kevin or Jenson were offered a McLaren or a Mercedes at the end of 2015 they'd both take the Mercedes as well
Alonso in terms of outright speed isn't the as good as 2006 I wouldn't have thought. In terms of intelligence yeah probably 2014 Alonso is better. He probably peaked between 2010-2012 though IMO. I don't really see how someone over the age of 32 can be "improving all the time". Sure, he is still the best on the grid but Hamilton will surpass him on that one very soon IMO.
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AMS97KRR said:
APR193 said:
Jiggy said:
APR193 said:
Jiggy said:
Personally, I would've kept both Magnussen and Button and told Alonso to suck it. You're not going to win the championship next year anyway.

But at least Button stays in F1. His excellent performances this season probably broke the deal.

If you'd keep Magnussen over Alonso its probably a good job you're not in a position to make that kind of decision
It's easy to say that. You're not taking into account the possibility of Magnussen developing and Alonso declining. We saw it happening rather quickly with Grosjean and Raikkonen. Alonso in 2014 wasn't as good as Alonso in 2012. The first signs of one's speed dropping is his qualifying performances. That dropped dramatically for Alonso in recent seasons. He has changed his style into one based more on consistency and intelligence than on explosive pace. That aspect is gone. Going back to Raikkönen, last season he was leading the championship out of consistency in the first couple of races. Grosjean was nowhere to be seen. Then Grosjean found a way to get his explosive pace from 2012 back without crashing all the time and Raikkönen couldn't keep up at all. And Kimi's driving style, how it developed over time, is looking scarily similar than Alonso's, except for it happening faster. So assuming that the first real shot at winning the title happens in 2016, by that time Magnussen could've been in a position to regularly beat Alonso. That is, if McLaren truly believed in his reputation as a future World Champion. Apparently they don't. Sensible long-term planning would've meant sticking by Magnussen at all costs.


Also, if 2015 is going to be a year of development, Button would be more suitable than Alonso, who in his years at Ferrari never got the repuation as a driver that contributes greatly to the development of his car as the season progresses. Alonso is purely the driver they need to get results, but in 2015, there is a big chance they won't be in a position to get winning results on a regular basis anyway. They don't desperately need Alonso, but his reputation means it's irresistible to pass up on him. By demoting Magnussen, McLaren is acknowledging that they messed up and that trying to do a Red Bull is something they cannot do. It makes Hamilton's success look more like a fluke for their Academy. And signing Alonso is yet again a risk that could backfire real hard on them. Their relationship has been rocky in the past to say the least and as Vettelfan showed, it's not that farfetched to think he won't jump ship for 2016 because at this point he's desperate to be in the best car.


So long story short, 2015 is probably going to be more about development, so keeping Button for that, while also keeping Magnussen to lead them in the seasons beyond 2015 would be the best choice. Now we have a situation where you don't know if Alonso is willing to stay for much longer than a year and whether Magnussen is ready by the team he does leave.
If anything Alonso is getting better all the time. He's a better driver than he was when he won his championships. You say Alonso isn't known for being good at developing a car, but is Button? What has JB done to develop the McLaren over the last 2 years, if anything the McLaren was worse this year than 2013.

Also, of course Alonso wants a Mercedes. Saying he could jump ship at the end of the year if a Mercedes seat appears is kind of silly. If Kevin or Jenson were offered a McLaren or a Mercedes at the end of 2015 they'd both take the Mercedes as well
Alonso in terms of outright speed isn't the as good as 2006 I wouldn't have thought. In terms of intelligence yeah probably 2014 Alonso is better. He probably peaked between 2010-2012 though IMO. I don't really see how someone over the age of 32 can be "improving all the time". Sure, he is still the best on the grid but Hamilton will surpass him on that one very soon IMO.
Personally I don't think Lewis since 2011 or so has been as quick in terms of outright speed as he was in 2007/2008 though, but I still think he's a better driver now than he was then. Maldonado was an awful lot quicker in 2012 than Senna all year long but they scored almost the same amount of points. Quicker doesn't mean better.

And personally I don't buy that Alonso peaked in 2010-2012. He was comfortably 2nd in the championship in 2013 in a car that after the first 5 or so rounds wasn't competitive, beat Kimi by over 100 points this year and nearly won a race in Hungary in that dog of a car. I can't see any team in the paddock choosing a driver with just one average rookie season at best over Alonso
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I tend to agree Alonso's results do not always reflect his talent. He has not always had great cars, and he is not going to win any "luckiest driver in the paddock" awards. I think he still has some great performances in him. I would love to see him have some success.

I am tired of him being referred to as "Poor Fernando Alonso". Hopefully he gets a few good breaks and can show us what he is capable of.
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APR193 said:
Also, of course Alonso wants a Mercedes. Saying he could jump ship at the end of the year if a Mercedes seat appears is kind of silly. If Kevin or Jenson were offered a McLaren or a Mercedes at the end of 2015 they'd both take the Mercedes as well
Agreed, but realistically Fernando is the only one of them who might stand a chance of grabbing the Mercedes seat if it became free, so it's pointless to compare. And he's made it especially clear in contract negotiations he hasn't been looking for a long term pledge. He wanted a 1 year deal, Ron made it 2. He's joined Mclaren out of need rather than desire, because he simply had nowhere else to go. 

For what it's worth, I think and I personally hope he won't ever get in at Mercedes. Rosberg put up with all the shit Mercedes produced for years to get in a position to where the team is now, and Hamilton put his faith in them when no-one else would, off the back of an awful season in 2012. So in my view them two are worthy holders of that car at the moment for the faith they put in Mercedes, and deserve the success they will now endure for the next few years. Alonso joining now just as they have become dominant would feel less earned. I know Alonso has had to put up with some rubbish at Ferrari too, but in the end he did get two decent shots at the world title which could have easily materialised. 

Also, just as a side note, it's kind of difficult to miss #BelieveInMclaren trending on twitter today. Amazing how the last few months can be forgotten in an instance with the right decision.  
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That makes me happy and sad.

Happy, because all this decision making and negotiating hasn't just been for one extra year. It has actually been for the sake of a medium term future for Button, so that sort of makes all the indecisiveness a bit more justified.

Sad though, because that makes Magnussen's small chances of reviving F1 career even smaller. He won't sit on the sideline for two years. 
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APR193 said:
If anything Alonso is getting better all the time. He's a better driver than he was when he won his championships. You say Alonso isn't known for being good at developing a car, but is Button? What has JB done to develop the McLaren over the last 2 years, if anything the McLaren was worse this year than 2013.

Also, of course Alonso wants a Mercedes. Saying he could jump ship at the end of the year if a Mercedes seat appears is kind of silly. If Kevin or Jenson were offered a McLaren or a Mercedes at the end of 2015 they'd both take the Mercedes as well
Alonso most definitely isn't getting better. That's nonsense. He might be a bit smarter now than he was in 2006, but he's not better. Button was praised for his developmental skills at BAR/Honda and McLaren. Button got more points in this year's McLaren than last years and in both seasons, the car improved later on in the season. I'm not saying Button > Alonso, because he isn't. But you don't need to be running around with a Rolex when your paycheck comes from ASDA. Same here, McLaren won't be a contender in 2015, they don't think they'll be one themselves, so they don't need Alonso. Button won't win it for them either, but has other qualities they can use. Magnussen could get there, if you invest in him. Which they now won't. And the threat of Magnussen and/or Button leaving for Mercedes is obviously going to be much smaller than the threat of Alonso leaving because of reputation. It's an odd comparison, since you and I both know Magnussen and Button won't get that offer. Alonso definitely could get that offer.
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Hughesy said:
Yeeeeeeessssss! Finally sense prevails o:) So happy for Button.

Agreed best decision all round I think just annoying that it took so long for McLaren to make it.


R.I.P.

The F1-career of Kevin Magnussen

2014-2014


I wouldn't say that exactly  he did match Jenson pound for pound in qualifying he just lacks a bit of experience and race craft at the moment I think. I think McLaren will try to find a spot for him to gain experience and come back when he's ready. McLaren need experience more than anything right now if they're going to get back to the top and they know it. Magnussen does have a future in F1 I think but he needs to  go away and fine tune a couple of things then come back and I think that's what McLaren aer thinking here. He'll be ready and be given first shot I think once one of them retires as I doubt that Button will be racing more than 2/3 seasons more at this level. McLaren are doing the right thing by taking advantage of Button's talents while he can still do a job. Plus let's not forget both Button and Alonso both came into the sport at more or less the same time so Alonso probably won't be doing much more than Button either before his eventual retirement and like Button has also expressed an interest in endurance racing so we don't know how long the stay at McLaren will be for either of them.

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