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Unfair view rules, make DiRT games great again...

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In-game cockpit view = obstructed fish-eye tunnel vision = not realistic (& also not fun or visually appealing to me).

I'm glad that the optional cockpit view is available in games for players who enjoy it, but it seems silly to me to compare/compete/rank or even restrict specifically based on limited visibility using only a fraction of the available display area with all viewable objects outside the car shrunken & skewed due to a severely limited camera perspective. Might as well have a separate leaderboard & lobby setting so players can compete for who is the faster blind-folded driver.


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What's the point of even having sim mode when the day physics are 98% arcade... Maybe one day they'll understand what simulation actually means. I should have known not to get dirt 4 when kickup told me the damage physics weren't much different them dirt rally. But I bought it anyways on release thinking and feeling everything else would make up for it. 

But I just can't get passed having a sim mode when it's far from simulation.. heck, Forza does that part 100x better... That's painful to say too.. unfortunately, dirt 4 is the best option for rally lovers currently. Though, wrc7 is on the horizon..

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Well I personally can't see anything out of the cockpit view in-game, whereas I can see everything from inside a car in real life. I don't see why I should restrict my view by 50% because of like three people moaning about equality.

No, bonnet cam is what works for me (and many others), so that is what we will use.
So we need the VR option for a real rally feeling and not a dump bonnet view to overcome the problems of Dirt 4.

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Realism  shmealism, this is about racing under the same condiditons as your competitors.

Why do you guys think Fearless mode is interior only? Because CM think it's harder, yet there is no way to race against other players under the same conditions. If you are on a single screen you use dashcam, it is quite good actually, for tripple screens headcam is fine. And for people who want their bonnet view, nothing would change anyways, so I don't know why people start screaming "no no no". How are options bad? No one is forcing anything on anybody here.

This problem is another one for the "we didn't have time to properly develop our game" -list, unfinished business everywhere, and I actually preordered this with giving CM the benefit of the doubt from DR.

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I use bonnet view because in a 19 inch screen if I play on cockpit view I Will see 10inches of road, while a guy with a bigger screen would see the same size as I see in bonnet cam, and I don't want to split the leaderboards in screen size
For information, i played DR, 400 hours in a single 23", in dashcam view. Played 100 hours more in a triple 23", same view...
And can tell you, i never was faster, my times/results are the same, just more comfortable...
More, many DiRT players play bonnet view on a triple screen !
Dude, i never ask a split by screen size, you don't read me mister ...I ask for a split/ filter by view !!! 
This game havn' t the same difficulty if you play inside or outside, everybody play inside can comfirm it here...
Just an equity question... ;) 

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Without doubt bonnet view in my case make me much faster than inside view  because it is definitely easier for all the handicaps that inside view provide but i believe bonnet view give a better speed sensation and more concentration. but views are not the only criteria we should consider.. Recently i went back to Dirt Rally with the hardest setting possible (no ext. camera - H-gate + clutch no override - all aids off - all OSD off ) and let me tell you. it is very hard but it is fun and i am  a better driver now and dirt rally is a different game.
Honestly Word Record do not interest me much because all the possible cheats that are available but i agree that the leader board should be filter according to your settings.
I am still waiting for some patches for Dirt 4 to make the game more sim and more interesting to finish the rally championship  and WRC7  that look very promising for hardcore racers


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Was it Forza 6 that have 12-15% extra xp or money or so if sticking to internal camera view.

Big mystery to me is that anybody drive with external helicopter view(or what you call it). Starting Dirt 2 I remember I did not get anywhere near a leaderboard unless having hood camera that really make you microadjust without thinking and can go way faster.

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Yup, Sebastien Loeb uses bonnet cam as well. Probably because cockpit cam is too restricted on a single monitor. Just a wild guess.

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Well I personally can't see anything out of the cockpit view in-game, whereas I can see everything from inside a car in real life. I don't see why I should restrict my view by 50% because of like three people moaning about equality.

No, bonnet cam is what works for me (and many others), so that is what we will use.
Hi Porkhammer, with my respect !
If playing "sim game" in a bonnet view is your idea of "sim racing", well...Really not mine, ever...
The strange think so, why upload your video in Cockpit view...?
Think 80% of bonnet view player can' t set the same time in a inside view...but, they trust the leaderbord, easy way, unfair way...
So, is it indecent to ask a filter view inside/outside, to compare what is comparable...
Sorry, but an exterior view in a "sim mode"...Just ridicoulous...

Inside view is not realistic. It looks cool and may give an illusion it's realistic but it's not. It limits your view angle too much. In real life your view angle is much wider. Inside view should only be used with triple or ultra wide screens. But then again, it gives an advantage against people who use a single monitor.

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Hengist said:
For many years I had been an advocate of in-cockpit view racing, even to the point of disrupting the start of a race by protesting that all should use the same view, in-order to create a 'level playing field' for fair play. Although I still have reservations concerning 3rd person view advantages (which I don't class bonnet view as being), my general stance has changed over the last few years, mainly attributable to watching professional drivers play simulations. In the majority of videos, featuring professional drivers, I have noticed that they tend to use bonnet view. This got me thinking... If a professional driver chooses bonnet view, then they must feel that this is a more representative view of realism for them. Who am I to think that the in-cockpit view (based upon my 30+ years of driving experience, pottering around the roads of Britain) is the correct way to go?

Seb Loeb using a simulation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgYTIsxjG-I

There is no "correct way to go".
I could now start arguing about the video that you posted and the fact that he is clearly there for a marketing stunt, not for his opinion on which view is the most realistic. He is sitting in a mockup car 2-3m away from a small screen, of course he needs to use bonnet view, heck bumper cam might be even better in that case.
Instead I would like to argue from another angle. Codemasters have the fearless option for singleplayer, why not have it in multiplayer? All I would want is leaderboard filters and corresponding settings for pro tour and the upcomming leagues. The groundwork is already there in MP lobbies, sadly the only option on which they decided not to be enforceable is interior cameras on/off ... why ? Who the hell knows.
There is no point in arguing about realism, opinions will vary and the discussion would lead nowhere, to have the same difficulty settings for MP as for SP however is probably the most logical game-design argument there is, as long as there are options to play whichever way you like.

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Hengist said:
If a professional driver chooses bonnet view, then they must feel that this is a more representative view of realism for them. 
Sry but not the question here... The question is :
Is Seb Loeb, will be agree to race a competition with handicaps, not on the same difficulty scale of all racers on the starting line... ?
Maybe the World RX with Welding bezel, or the Dakar with a matt windshield, Pikes peak in the night, for him and not for the others...
Think not...
;) 

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Bybukas said:

Inside view is not realistic. It looks cool and may give an illusion it's realistic but it's not. It limits your view angle too much. In real life your view angle is much wider. Inside view should only be used with triple or ultra wide screens. But then again, it gives an advantage against people who use a single monitor.
Hey guys... Please, read and try to under the post....
If you wan' t play bonnet view, coz you have a single or you think it' s most realistic, or you are fater than the inside view,
or what you want, play like that, well, really not the, or mine problem...
But be classy to admit the DiRT games need to have a split leaderbord or a view filter because the difficulty is really not the same...
If you don' t under that, do the test...Play dashcam view few hours, maybe after, would be logical for you too...

 

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Bybukas said:

Inside view is not realistic. It looks cool and may give an illusion it's realistic but it's not. It limits your view angle too much. In real life your view angle is much wider. Inside view should only be used with triple or ultra wide screens. But then again, it gives an advantage against people who use a single monitor.
Hey guys... Please, read and try to under the post....
If you wan' t play bonnet view, coz you have a single or you think it' s most realistic, or you are fater than the inside view,
or what you want, play like that, well, really not the, or mine problem...
But be classy to admit the DiRT games need to have a split leaderbord or a view filter because the difficulty is really not the same...
If you don' t under that, do the test...Play dashcam view few hours, maybe after, would be logical for you too...

Post this in the suggestion box section of the Dirt forum? Make a poll. Maybe Codemasters will take it into consideration if it gets enough votes.

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But be classy to admit the DiRT games need to have a split leaderbord or a view filter because the difficulty is really not the same…
Is the issue that you only want to compare your times with people that are using the same view as you? Or is it that you think people should not be allowed to use exterior views because it gives them an unfair advantage?

FWIW until quite recently I used cockpit view because I felt it gave me the best sensation of where the car was, but I've switched to bonnet cam now and I really like the improved visibility. If I was using VR (and the game supported it of course) I'd probably be using cockpit cam.
wan' t
it' s
you don' t
Off-topic, but apostrophes don't have spaces after them, and "wan't" shouldn't have an apostrophe at all.

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Porkhammer said :
Post this in the suggestion box section of the Dirt forum? Make a poll. Maybe Codemasters will take it into consideration if it gets enough votes.
Thanks, i will do that !
Just hope the bonnet view users vote in intelligence & fair play so... :)

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Porkhammer said :
Post this in the suggestion box section of the Dirt forum? Make a poll. Maybe Codemasters will take it into consideration if it gets enough votes.
Thanks, i will do that !
Just hope the bonnet view users vote in intelligence & fair play so... :)
I will vote, don't worry.

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caerphoto said:
Is the issue that you only want to compare your times with people that are using the same view as you? Or is it that you think people should not be allowed to use exterior views because it gives them an unfair advantage?

FWIW until quite recently I used cockpit view because I felt it gave me the best sensation of where the car was, but I've switched to bonnet cam now and I really like the improved visibility. If I was using VR (and the game supported it of course) I'd probably be using cockpit cam.
wan' t
it' s
you don' t
Off-topic, but apostrophes don't have spaces after them, and "wan't" shouldn't have an apostrophe at all.
All is in your question my captain! I want be able to compare time in the "same conditions"...
Coz, yes the exterior view give an unfair avantage, obvious and indisputable...
And thanks for the english lesson, not my first language, sorry for that... ;)

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Bybukas said:

Inside view is not realistic. It looks cool and may give an illusion it's realistic but it's not. It limits your view angle too much. In real life your view angle is much wider. Inside view should only be used with triple or ultra wide screens. But then again, it gives an advantage against people who use a single monitor.
Hey guys... Please, read and try to under the post....
If you wan' t play bonnet view, coz you have a single or you think it' s most realistic, or you are fater than the inside view,
or what you want, play like that, well, really not the, or mine problem...
But be classy to admit the DiRT games need to have a split leaderbord or a view filter because the difficulty is really not the same...
If you don' t under that, do the test...Play dashcam view few hours, maybe after, would be logical for you too...

 

I'm telling you again. Inside view is not realistic. It's your choice. If you want to handicap yourself just do it and stop complaining.

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Bybukas said:
Bybukas said:

Inside view is not realistic. It looks cool and may give an illusion it's realistic but it's not. It limits your view angle too much. In real life your view angle is much wider. Inside view should only be used with triple or ultra wide screens. But then again, it gives an advantage against people who use a single monitor.
Hey guys... Please, read and try to under the post....
If you wan' t play bonnet view, coz you have a single or you think it' s most realistic, or you are fater than the inside view,
or what you want, play like that, well, really not the, or mine problem...
But be classy to admit the DiRT games need to have a split leaderbord or a view filter because the difficulty is really not the same...
If you don' t under that, do the test...Play dashcam view few hours, maybe after, would be logical for you too...

 

I'm telling you again. Inside view is not realistic. It's your choice. If you want to handicap yourself just do it and stop complaining.
He's not complaining, Bybukas. He just want to be given the option of racing against other people that use the same driving view.

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Bybukas said:
I'm telling you again. Inside view is not realistic. It's your choice. If you want to handicap yourself just do it and stop complaining.
Cheer Bybukas, please, be nice and correct...
First, "I'm telling you again. Inside view is not realistic..." Wow, god speak...It' s your own opinion, me, i can respect it...But, is it the verity, not sure...
Second, "
If you want to handicap yoursefl..." So you admitt is an handicap, glad to hear that !
I can under you are completely agree with me f
or a view filter so, not your style to race with avantages, i imagine :)
And yes, some players want be closer to "real racing conditions" !

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Coz, yes the exterior view give an unfair avantage, obvious and indisputable...
Well, I dispute this. It's not an unfair advantage, because you can use it too, you just choose to deliberately handicap yourself for the sake of "realism".

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caerphoto said:
because you can use it too
I can, sure... I want, never... Interest=0, for me...
Glad to read that, you admit, you too, it' s an avantage. Perfect, we are agree !

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tbtstt said:
Loeb is a newb. He'll never win anything. 
If you mean in SimRacing, it' s 100% true...
In you mean in IRL, just respect the champion he is...

But it' s not the object here...please tbtstt...Maybe an opinion about a view filter ?  ;)

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But it' s not the object here...please tbtstt...Maybe an opinion about a view filter ?  ;)
Well I partially agree with your original post, as I don't think using the camera view(s) behind the car is very realistic.

Having said that, I never find the cockpit view very realistic when playing a driving game on a single screen setup. Sure, having the cockpit in your vision gives you some details you'd see when you drive, but cockpit views always limit your peripheral vision and, to me, that's not realistic. My vision isn't restricted like that when I drive in real life, so I don't like it in game. I use the bonnet cam as, to me, it gives the best balance. Offsetting the bonnet cam (to be on the correct side of the car for the steering wheel) would be a nice option to improve the realism of that view.

I actually find it a bit annoying that the bonnet cam is included in the "external view" category in the game, as it means I have earned slightly less of a bonus when playing through the career as I have had to leave "External Camera" enabled!

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