Unfair view rules, make DiRT games great again...

[BoTy quattro 0]

Really don't understand why the exterior view are avaible in "sim mode" on DiRT 4....It' s a no sense...
The problem is the same since DR and now D4....
Inside view (Cockpit or dashbord) are so much difficult, for many, many, many reasons, than bonnet view, most view played for sure...
But the leaderbord is the same one...Not possible and zero interest to run togheter, and compare time ! 
If the leaderbord are not splitted, those game really need a filter by view (inside/outside), like the filter (assist on/assist off).
Equality question Codemasters , first rules in sport !!! ;)

[Porkhammer 78]

Well I personally can't see anything out of the cockpit view in-game, whereas I can see everything from inside a car in real life. I don't see why I should restrict my view by 50% because of like three people moaning about equality.

No, bonnet cam is what works for me (and many others), so that is what we will use.

[caerphoto 323]

What Porkhammer said. If you restrict yourself to cockpit mode, all you're simulating is what you'd see out of a 24"-diagonal window. In a real car you have much higher field of view, can turn and move your head, can feel g-forces, etc.

[BoTy quattro 0]

Porkhammer said:

Well I personally can't see anything out of the cockpit view in-game, whereas I can see everything from inside a car in real life. I don't see why I should restrict my view by 50% because of like three people moaning about equality.

No, bonnet cam is what works for me (and many others), so that is what we will use.

Hi Porkhammer, with my respect !
If playing "sim game" in a bonnet view is your idea of "sim racing", well...Really not mine, ever...
The strange think so, why upload your video in Cockpit view...?
Think 80% of bonnet view player can' t set the same time in a inside view...but, they trust the leaderbord, easy way, unfair way...
So, is it indecent to ask a filter view inside/outside, to compare what is comparable...
Sorry, but an exterior view in a "sim mode"...Just ridicoulous...

[Porkhammer 78]

BoTyquattro said:

Porkhammer said:

Well I personally can't see anything out of the cockpit view in-game, whereas I can see everything from inside a car in real life. I don't see why I should restrict my view by 50% because of like three people moaning about equality.

No, bonnet cam is what works for me (and many others), so that is what we will use.

Hi Porkhammer, with my respect !
If playing "sim game" in a bonnet view is your idea of "sim racing", well...Really not mine, ever...
The strange think so, why upload your video in Cockpit view...?
Think 80% of bonnet view player can' t set the same time in a inside view...but, they trust the leaderbord, easy way, unfair way...
So, is it indecent to ask a filter view inside/outside, to compare what is comparable...
Sorry, but an exterior view in a "sim mode"...Just ridicoulous...

I record my replays from cockpit view because that's what my viewers seem to like most. However, I record weekly events "live", and there it is very apparent that I use bonnet view. It's not like I'm denying it.

Also, bonnet view is not really an exterior camera. A Dirt developer said so himself, though I don't remember who... but it was on the Steam forums.

[BoTy quattro 0]

Also, bonnet view is not really an exterior camera. A Dirt developer said so himself, though I don't remember who... but it was on the Steam forums.

"A DiRT dev said himself"...Strange opinion...Maybe, he drive cars like that so, i want see that... :D
More than try to find wobbly arguments, you can answer at the question about the filter, only way to have the equality..!

A reason that i really like iRacing ! Same rules for all "sim racers", just basics... ;)

[Porkhammer 78]

I have no opinions on filters myself, as I ignore leaderboards.

Maybe somebody that cares about results can answer.

[couger1981 89]

BoTyquattro said:

Also, bonnet view is not really an exterior camera. A Dirt developer said so himself, though I don't remember who... but it was on the Steam forums.

"A DiRT dev said himself"...Strange opinion...Maybe, he drive cars like that so, i want see that... :D
More than try to find wobbly arguments, you can answer at the question about the filter, only way to have the equality..!

A reason that i really like iRacing ! Same rules for all "sim racers", just basics... ;)

Just so you know the main Dev used to be or still is a rally navigator so i think they know what there talking about.

[BoTy quattro 0]

Just so you know the main Dev used to be or still is a rally navigator so i think they know what there talking about.

So, he navigate, or drive a car like that : 
- Seat always at the center of the car (right or left hand drive)...
- Never have any rain on the windshield, a windshield broken, windscreen wiper running...
- and so many détails, but sorry, havn't the words in english, but everybody see what i mean...

Or maybe, he can' t set a correct time in a inside view, not the only one... ;)

[WeamDreaver 12]

I use inside view for immersion, but not for realism.
Using cockpit view on a single screen is anyting but realistic. We have already missing inputs from seat of pants and many other sensory information. Crippling our main input, the driving view, with a tiny 2D window for our field of view is not making it any more realistic.

The cockpit view is quite unrealistic, unless you have a triple screen setup or at least something like TrackIR.
This goes especially for a rally game, where you are supposed to go sideways, which is indeed even more hard when you are unable to look into the direction you're going but instead are forced to always look straight out of the car.

[ALF 8]

So, you "want" everyone using cockpit cam, in a Sim, but then doesn't someone who has big triples wouldn't be in advantage over someone who plays on a (e.g.) 19" single screen?

I play in Hood/Bonnet cam ( single screen here ) exactly because of what @Porkhammer says in his first post. Altough, i agree that Leaderboards should have way more Filters, being what cam/view you play, one of them.

[kobeshow 0]

When I first played D4 I was under the impression that you could restrict the camera to inside views only in MP, but of course that is the only option that is not enforceable. It was kind of a letdown for me.
Codies could have just tied it to the fearless difficulty aswell, there are ways to solve these kind of issues but I don't think CM really care about that part of their game.

Porkhammer said:

Well I personally can't see anything out of the cockpit view in-game, whereas I can see everything from inside a car in real life. I don't see why I should restrict my view by 50% because of like three people moaning about equality.

No, bonnet cam is what works for me (and many others), so that is what we will use.

And mister "I don't care about anything, but feel the need to justify everything" is just cute. Who would restrict your views? NOBODY, you allegedly don't care about leaderboards or MP so who would exactly stop you from using bonnet if CM included an option for people in fearless mode to be thrown together in MP/Leaderboards (for example, other ways to solve this aswell).

The only problem I see with this is that the almost lifeless MP part of the game would be dead for the few people who try to race with inside views only.

[Fedemaisonnave 48]

I use bonnet view because in a 19 inch screen if I play on cockpit view I Will see 10inches of road, while a guy with a bigger screen would see the same size as I see in bonnet cam, and I don't want to split the leaderboards in screen size

[Porkhammer 78]

kobeshow said:

Porkhammer said:

Well I personally can't see anything out of the cockpit view in-game, whereas I can see everything from inside a car in real life. I don't see why I should restrict my view by 50% because of like three people moaning about equality.

No, bonnet cam is what works for me (and many others), so that is what we will use.

And mister "I don't care about anything, but feel the need to justify everything" is just cute. Who would restrict your views? NOBODY, you allegedly don't care about leaderboards or MP so who would exactly stop you from using bonnet if CM included an option for people in fearless mode to be thrown together in MP/Leaderboards (for example, other ways to solve this aswell).

I was just asking, trying to make sense of stuff. Tone down the aggro, little man. Sheesh. Eat pizza or pet a dog or something.

[caerphoto 323]

Porkhammer said:

kobeshow said:

Porkhammer said:

Well I personally can't see anything out of the cockpit view in-game, whereas I can see everything from inside a car in real life. I don't see why I should restrict my view by 50% because of like three people moaning about equality.

No, bonnet cam is what works for me (and many others), so that is what we will use.

And mister "I don't care about anything, but feel the need to justify everything" is just cute. Who would restrict your views? NOBODY, you allegedly don't care about leaderboards or MP so who would exactly stop you from using bonnet if CM included an option for people in fearless mode to be thrown together in MP/Leaderboards (for example, other ways to solve this aswell).

I was just asking, trying to make sense of stuff. Tone down the aggro, little man. Sheesh. Eat pizza or pet a dog or something.

I think CM must have killed his dog or something, given the anger here.

[kobeshow 0]

ahaha ... you guys thought I was agressive? What a few caps letters can do. Too bad one cannot read intonation.
You calling me "little man", and telling me to "pet a dog" is more belitteling and unpolite than me writing one word in all caps. You were not asking anything, there wasn't even a questionmark in your sentence. "I don't see why I should X because of few people Y" is usually a very entiteled position and apparently that can't be too far off since I have struck a nerve here it seems.

Have a nice day.

[Porkhammer 78]

kobeshow said:

ahaha ... you guys thought I was agressive? What a few caps letters can do. Too bad one cannot read intonation.
You calling me "little man", and telling me to "pet a dog" is more belitteling and unpolite than me writing one word in all caps. You were not asking anything, there wasn't even a questionmark in your sentence. "I don't see why I should X because of few people Y" is usually a very entiteled position and apparently that can't be too far off since I have struck a nerve here it seems.

Have a nice day.

I was joking... dude, lighten up.

[Indigo121 0]

I'm always astounded of seeing POV videos of racing games online, including by some very popular youtubers, where like 85% of the screen is static cockpit. Do people watch these?

Because of the way the eye works with its depth of field and focus, when you drive a car pretty much a 100% of your vision is the outside. There is really nothing "simulation" about cockpits in games. The most realistic simulation, given that a screen is flat, would be just the outside, with maybe a blurry edge of the windscreen at the very edges, just for effect. PCars almost nailed that, but even they zoomed out too much.

[BoTy quattro 0]

Indigo121 said:

Because of the way the eye works with its depth of field and focus, when you drive a car pretty much a 100% of your vision is the outside. There is really nothing "simulation" about cockpits in games. 

Everyone can give is POV about that...
But, it' s not the question of the tread...I want remember it, guys !
Can we run in a same leaderbord or without filters for an so huge difference of difficulty ? Equality question....

[shadow118 18]

Steering wheel (the physcial one), "windshield" (the monitor), another steering wheel (the in-game one), another windshield (the in-game windshield) - yup, cockpit view is realistic /s/

[Indigo121 0]

BoTyquattro said:

Indigo121 said:

Because of the way the eye works with its depth of field and focus, when you drive a car pretty much a 100% of your vision is the outside. There is really nothing "simulation" about cockpits in games. 

Everyone can give is POV about that...
But, it' s not the question of the tread...I want remember it, guys !
Can we run in a same leaderbord or without filters for an so huge difference of difficulty ? Equality question....

But dude, there are so many other factors to success: wheel or gamepad, wheel and pedal quality, screen size, triple or one screen, how much time to drive (in real life race drivers all get the same time on the track), is wife yelling at you to grow up. So many factors.

[madwak 0]

If you want a really strange experience try bonnet cam with a VR headset. The cockpit cam works great in VR as you can turn your head into the slide :smile:

[shadow118 18]

madwak said:

If you want a really strange experience try bonnet cam with a VR headset. The cockpit cam works great in VR as you can turn your head into the slide :smile:

For VR maybe, but for a single monitor it's not the best option

[caerphoto 323]

Didzis said:

Steering wheel (the physcial one), "windshield" (the monitor), another steering wheel (the in-game one), another windshield (the in-game windshield) - yup, cockpit view is realistic /s/

I have the in-game wheel turned off, and the view moved as far forward as possible, so the view is mostly just windscreen for most cars. Unfortunately some cars (e.g. most of the R5s) have huge dashboards so I can't get the view how I like it all the time.
Might have to give bonnet cam a go; means enabling exterior views though, which alas means slightly less money.

[KevM 44]

In fairness, D4 does dashcam quite well.  I really enjoy using it but don't expect to be as quick