Microsoft hands out refunds for Dirt 4 on base of false advertising.

[sqdstr 107]

tilithom said:

Ferranis said:

Plus the devs are aware of the problems. Do you think you get your results faster by being loud? Thats what badly raised little kids do.

I have heard that but have not heard that they are going to fix it. "Looking into it" is closest to that but please correct me if I have missed something.

And why do u think that's not the same? I personally wouldn't even look into something if I wouldn't want to fix it...

[Ferranis 54]

tilithom said:

Ferranis said:

Plus the devs are aware of the problems. Do you think you get your results faster by being loud? Thats what badly raised little kids do.

I have heard that but have not heard that they are going to fix it. "Looking into it" is closest to that but please correct me if I have missed something.

What more do you need? The time sheets of their employees? Enjoy it for what it is now - or don't. There are plenty of awesome games out there.

[tilithom 0]

Word that they are going to do something to it. not just look into it as that can mean nothing. I refunded it and are enjoying Dirt Rally more than ever, 4 was not for me but good that it's for some others.

[LightningFast90 0]

The funniest thing in the racing game world are people who complain about 'realism' in racing games without having ever driven anything even remotely similar to the cars depicted on the tracks or surfaces concerned,. The developers never promised anything more than a 'simulation' of driving a rally car, it is a small yet important distinction. Terms and words are so often misused or misunderstood on the internet! Imo Codemasters should be querying Microsoft for providing refunds on such extremely flimsy complaints...

[Fizzlenog 6]

fabzvii said:

Fizzlenog said:

tilithom said:

I find Rally better on physics and it's not even fair to compare stages. You can go trough same excact corner 3 times on stage in 4 and as track builder is not bad it were nearly not enough for me. Would be other story if they still had made career tracks on way they used to, now they lack sould and personality.

Is there any rally drivers word about handling? I have negative one about 4 from one but not someone anyone would have heard of I think.

Yes one rally driver that played dirt rally a lot says there is an issue with the dirt 4 handling particularly too much grip and that some cars feel weird.

Source?

I'll find it later but he has a popular video on dirt rally and you can tell it's him because he uses white racing gloves. Another video of a different rally driver playing rally in a triple screen setup saying how impressed with the physics on the game but did say rwd was a little off. Comments section on the videos have the opinions in there. You can probably just search rally driver/professional playing dirt 4 since they will all have a similar opinion that it feels bad/weird

[Fizzlenog 6]

LightningFast90 said:

The funniest thing in the racing game world are people who complain about 'realism' in racing games without having ever driven anything even remotely similar to the cars depicted on the tracks or surfaces concerned,. The developers never promised anything more than a 'simulation' of driving a rally car, it is a small yet important distinction. Terms and words are so often misused or misunderstood on the internet! Imo Codemasters should be querying Microsoft for providing refunds on such extremely flimsy complaints...

Lol what? The rally part of the game is broken if we are going by anything they said like dirt 4 being dirt rally but improved physics. The rallycross is spot on but rally is clearly not finished and shouldn't have been released yet. I have all kind of experience in the dirt, mud, sand, and gravel also 2 wheels and 4. Nothing I have driven came close to feeling like it has brutal traction control on

[fabzvii 4]

Fizzlenog said:

fabzvii said:

Fizzlenog said:

tilithom said:

I find Rally better on physics and it's not even fair to compare stages. You can go trough same excact corner 3 times on stage in 4 and as track builder is not bad it were nearly not enough for me. Would be other story if they still had made career tracks on way they used to, now they lack sould and personality.

Is there any rally drivers word about handling? I have negative one about 4 from one but not someone anyone would have heard of I think.

Yes one rally driver that played dirt rally a lot says there is an issue with the dirt 4 handling particularly too much grip and that some cars feel weird.

Source?

I'll find it later but he has a popular video on dirt rally and you can tell it's him because he uses white racing gloves. Another video of a different rally driver playing rally in a triple screen setup saying how impressed with the physics on the game but did say rwd was a little off. Comments section on the videos have the opinions in there. You can probably just search rally driver/professional playing dirt 4 since they will all have a similar opinion that it feels bad/weird

You probably mean Jonn_Rally ?

[KevM 44]

Ferranis said:

Man KevM... can't you just leave it be? Just don't play D4 and be done with it. The constant complaining gets annoying.

Your advice...  just don't play it?

I dont.

What I did do though, was pay for it.  To play it.  Which I don't do.

Kinda why this thread makes sense....

[JZStudios 631]

KevM said:

Ferranis said:

Man KevM... can't you just leave it be? Just don't play D4 and be done with it. The constant complaining gets annoying.

Your advice...  just don't play it?

I dont.

What I did do though, was pay for it.  To play it.  Which I don't do.

Kinda why this thread makes sense....

Huh, it's almost like when the game released and the shitshow that ensued when I said to just return the game was me being correct.
I just don't understand why people refuse to return things they don't like. It just sucks on PC because the refund policy sucks.

[Slowish 0]

JZStudios said:

KevM said:

Ferranis said:

Man KevM... can't you just leave it be? Just don't play D4 and be done with it. The constant complaining gets annoying.

Your advice...  just don't play it?

I dont.

What I did do though, was pay for it.  To play it.  Which I don't do.

Kinda why this thread makes sense....

Huh, it's almost like when the game released and the shitshow that ensued when I said to just return the game was me being correct.
I just don't understand why people refuse to return things they don't like. It just sucks on PC because the refund policy sucks.

Well, that's true enough; the refund policy is a joke when it comes to setting up hardware while the clock is ticking. Setting up my controllers used up almost all the 2 hours due to the handbrake menu scrolling bug; add to that, default setups that require lot's of tuning just attempting to correct obvious handling issues only to get a rough idea of the results - good luck.

[Fizzlenog 6]

fabzvii said:

Fizzlenog said:

fabzvii said:

Fizzlenog said:

tilithom said:

I find Rally better on physics and it's not even fair to compare stages. You can go trough same excact corner 3 times on stage in 4 and as track builder is not bad it were nearly not enough for me. Would be other story if they still had made career tracks on way they used to, now they lack sould and personality.

Is there any rally drivers word about handling? I have negative one about 4 from one but not someone anyone would have heard of I think.

Yes one rally driver that played dirt rally a lot says there is an issue with the dirt 4 handling particularly too much grip and that some cars feel weird.

Source?

I'll find it later but he has a popular video on dirt rally and you can tell it's him because he uses white racing gloves. Another video of a different rally driver playing rally in a triple screen setup saying how impressed with the physics on the game but did say rwd was a little off. Comments section on the videos have the opinions in there. You can probably just search rally driver/professional playing dirt 4 since they will all have a similar opinion that it feels bad/weird

You probably mean Jonn_Rally ?

Yes him

[JZStudios 631]

Slowish said:

JZStudios said:

KevM said:

Ferranis said:

Man KevM... can't you just leave it be? Just don't play D4 and be done with it. The constant complaining gets annoying.

Your advice...  just don't play it?

I dont.

What I did do though, was pay for it.  To play it.  Which I don't do.

Kinda why this thread makes sense....

Huh, it's almost like when the game released and the shitshow that ensued when I said to just return the game was me being correct.
I just don't understand why people refuse to return things they don't like. It just sucks on PC because the refund policy sucks.

Well, that's true enough; the refund policy is a joke when it comes to setting up hardware while the clock is ticking. Setting up my controllers used up almost all the 2 hours due to the handbrake menu scrolling bug; add to that, default setups that require lot's of tuning just attempting to correct obvious handling issues only to get a rough idea of the results - good luck.

Yet people defend it and get mad when I say I want my money back.
I'm still falling back on "I can buy any pair of Puma's, expensive, cheap, on sale, doesn't matter, wear them for a month, send them back and get my money refunded."
A 2 hour refund policy is a joke. People attack me saying I should know EVERY facet of a game before I buy it. Gee, doesn't that make the experience fun?

[Ferranis 54]

The thing I don't understand is this: You bought it and it was not for you, ok - and sometimes a refund is not possible, which sucks. But why use more time on it on the forums? If I buy a game and it sucks I deinstall the game and move to something different. Complaining on the forums is about the last thing that comes to mind. It will change nothing and consume times and nerves for nothing.

[KevM 44]

The guys listen to the opinions on the forum, hence early access DiRT Rally

In my opinion, they found the X Factor with V2 handling & DR was hugely successful as it was a real leap forward in Rally simulation.

When planning D4, the team faced the red pill blue pill decision.  

DR is too hard & too niche?  Tone it down & capture a wider customer base?
or
DR is challenging & rewarding?  People bought into the authenticity, make it even more authentic & take Dirt to the next level?


I think they took a chance on commercial viability & missed the mark with what made DiRT Rally appealing


So, to answer your question.  I guess I just live in hope that we get D4v2 handling and I can enjoy the effort the team have put into making D4.  IMO, D4 with DR handling, would be awesome.  The UI, the visual tweaks, the soundtrack, the track generator are all fantastic, but wasted on me due to the mad handling.  I can't accept the Rally mess.  Not in the same game as the awesome rallycross physics.... that proves the team CAN do it.  I just can't get my head round why they HAVENT??

[LightningFast90 0]

Fizzlenog said:

LightningFast90 said:

The funniest thing in the racing game world are people who complain about 'realism' in racing games without having ever driven anything even remotely similar to the cars depicted on the tracks or surfaces concerned,. The developers never promised anything more than a 'simulation' of driving a rally car, it is a small yet important distinction. Terms and words are so often misused or misunderstood on the internet! Imo Codemasters should be querying Microsoft for providing refunds on such extremely flimsy complaints...

Lol what? The rally part of the game is broken if we are going by anything they said like dirt 4 being dirt rally but improved physics. The rallycross is spot on but rally is clearly not finished and shouldn't have been released yet. I have all kind of experience in the dirt, mud, sand, and gravel also 2 wheels and 4. Nothing I have driven came close to feeling like it has brutal traction control on

So? Did I at any point in my post suggest that they had it right? Don't think so. My point was that Codemasters have produced a simulation of rallying, whether a consumer feels that it is realistic or not, is no basis for a refund as it is a subjective viewpoint only. Fyi speaking of personal experience in order to justify a viewpoint over that of another is a slippery slope my friend as you don't always know the experience levels of the other. :)

[KevM 44]

LightningFast90
Codemasters have produced a simulation of rallying, whether a consumer feels that it is realistic or not, is no basis for a refund as it is a subjective viewpoint only. 

Simulation & Subjective...  they don't really go together in the same sentence 

Either it's a simulation or it's an interpretation.  If it's an interpretation, they can't call it simulation, as that's false.  
Clearly, we don't need to be Kris Meeke to realise that a car can't actually do what it does in-game.  (Not even the broken C3 WRC). :)

[Ferranis 54]

You realize that you are playing on a personal computer at home? And that it is a game?
It can only do so much. The simple parts are simulated and the complicated ones are not. 

[tilithom 0]

Ferranis said:

 The simple parts are simulated and the complicated ones are not. 

And that pretty much sums up why people are pissed.

[LightningFast90 0]

KevM said:

LightningFast90
Codemasters have produced a simulation of rallying, whether a consumer feels that it is realistic or not, is no basis for a refund as it is a subjective viewpoint only. 

Simulation & Subjective...  they don't really go together in the same sentence 

Either it's a simulation or it's an interpretation.  If it's an interpretation, they can't call it simulation, as that's false.  
Clearly, we don't need to be Kris Meeke to realise that a car can't actually do what it does in-game.  (Not even the broken C3 WRC). :)

Simulation is by definition an 'imitation' not an absolute like for like. So the interpretation of the accuracy of a simulation is indeed a subjective experience. Say you buy an imitation Rolex on a beach while on holiday your interpretation of the accuracy of the imitation is a personal view, eg if you  have never owned a Rolex your view of the imitation may be different to someone who does own one, ergo its is a subjective viewpoint. Don't doubt for a second that codemasters had a legal person look over their advertising before it goes to press, the word simulation would have been carefully chosen to avoid lawsuits. Sorry I love semantics. :)

[KevM 44]

OK

DiRT Rally - was believable Replica Rolex
DiRT 4 Rallycross - very believable Replica Rolex, even weighs the same as a real one
DiRT 4 Rally - Looks vaguely like a Rolex, but doesn't tell the time.  So is it a watch?  Or just a bracelet that shouldn't be called a watch or a Rolex?

why can they do it with D4 rx, & DR, but make a blunder they aren't correcting with D4 Rally?

[LightningFast90 0]

In your opinion...as that is only what your statements are. Don't get me wrong though, I agree with you...on a few points :)

[Etirion 2]

KevM said:

OK

DiRT Rally - was believable Replica Rolex
DiRT 4 Rallycross - very believable Replica Rolex, even weighs the same as a real one
DiRT 4 Rally - Looks vaguely like a Rolex, but doesn't tell the time.  So is it a watch?  Or just a bracelet that shouldn't be called a watch or a Rolex?

why can they do it with D4 rx, & DR, but make a blunder they aren't correcting with D4 Rally?

I highly doubt they are just sitting on their asses and not doing anything, they did say they are looking into it and you dont just look into things and then do nothing about it. There are two handling modes for a reason, it'd be a stupid waste of development time to just go and put 2 handling modes in but make them both arcade, just one with more speed. I do agree that rally right now isnt right, but compared to DR you can feel the improved aero and weight. They will fix things I feel pretty confident about that, the question is just how long it will take and how much improvement will there be. And simply just repeatedly saying that its wrong doesnt help anyone.

[Madhun1967 51]

Im sure CM going to have a measured response to address the concerns one way or another.What i dont like is the sporadic (at best) responses if any,to the Sim crowd. As in EA Dirt ,we had a constant dialogue with devs,which was sooooooooooo nice.The true sim reviewers have some issues with the title,and would be nice to hear soon to see what can still be fixed.

[KevM 44]

Has the aero been an improvement if it's had such an adverse effect on car balance?

3-4 weeks ago, I would have doubted the team are sitting doing nothing ( i honestly still don't think that the case).  As mentioned, we have always had great interaction, reassurance & feedback from CM on this forum.  I suppose the radio-silence is just becoming concerning.

[Madhun1967 51]

^ aero wasnt needed.Its needed in a F1 sim,or a WRC 2017 spec sim,IMHO.Lot of other stuff needs ironed out first.Tires,car weight etc.