Online Racing Etiquette 101 - The Racing Line and Track Position

[RTAnoskills 0]

This is not my work,  but I think its good advice,   

DomBomb32 - This is what you dont know, and the reason that YOU are the bad racer, and not ME.   

This was taken from http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/941103-gran-turismo-5/57778411
Cut n pasted here for ease. 
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Ever been online and been accused/accused someone of being a dirty racer? Been rammed and spun out? Hit someone and they spun out? It happens to everyone. Well I'm here to tell you about the most basic rule to remember when throwing around accusations:

Whoever has the racing line has the right of way (track position in racing speak).

I shouldn't need to tell anyone what the racing line is, but when it involves avoiding incidents it can be more than 'the optimum line around the track to keep the most speed'. The most common example of this online is two cars that are traveling side by side on a straight. One car has drafted the other, pulled alongside and they are now approaching a corner. The car that will be on the inside during the corner technically has track position, even if the corner is normally approached from the outside, and the outer driver must maintain his spot on the outside of the track through the corner.

However, that rule applies only when both cars are side by side (any part of the cars overlap lengthwise). If the outside car is ahead of the inside car by a car length or more (rear bumper in front of the inside cars front bumper) and is on the optimum racing line, the the outside car has track position and is therefore free to take whatever line he pleases through the corner. The inside driver MUST yield in this situation. If in actual F1, for example, this scenario happens and the inside driver fails to yield, an accident will most likely occur and the inside driver will be penalized by the stewards. With changing speeds, either of these scenarios can cross into the realm of the other very quickly, so you must be aware of the other car's position and closing speed as best you can. If you have any doubt, maintain your place on the track but keep your speed, so if you're on the inside and aren't sure if you're alongside the other car entering a fast corner, keep your position but don't keep accelerating should the other car move in front. Discretion is the better part of valor.

Some further tips to avoid incidents:

- Do not try to force a pass on a slower car, especially on very technical and narrow pieces of track like the beginning of the Nordschleife. Wait for a straight and pass.

- In the same vein, if you are being approached by a clearly faster car, give them space to pass. Otherwise you are very likely to both end up in the ditch, ruining your own race as well.

- Do not constantly block. In F1, cars are allowed to make one move across the track to block and must remain in that position while the trailing car either passes or fails on the original line.

- Don't race in rooms of 12-16 people doing a 2 lap race if you want clean races. The short length of the race and high amount of cars on track will make everyone very aggressive to make up as much ground as possible, a nightmare for clean racing. A nice 4-6 lap race with 6-12 people is much more satisfying and easygoing.

- Let the race develop in the first lap. Drivers of different skill and cars of different speed will naturally settle into a position, don't be too aggressive in this stage of the race.

- If you do spin out, don't rush to get back on track. Use the minimap to determine if any cars are fast approaching. Think: getting back onto a highway after stopping on the shoulder. Which also leads to...

- Don't assume you're a ghost or the ghost in front of you will remain one. They can change at the last second and you'll both spin out.

- Unfortunately, a lot of NA rooms are full of people who think they're right all the time, and will tell you so in their redneck accent using profanity (I'm American myself and have no shame admitting we have this stereotype for a reason). If this seems to be a common occurrence to you as well, join a European server and make some new friends.

- Similarly, don't go around making accusations constantly over small bumps, it just makes others lose trust in you and you might even end up getting kicked yourself. Racing is not an exact science. After everything you can do to avoid accidents, you can and still will have them. Live and let live.

And most importantly...

- Winning isn't everything. A clean 2nd place is much more satisfying than winning but having the guilt of taking someone out. Remember, there is no stat tracking in GT5, so its all about having fun.

By following these simple guidelines you can play both fairly and frustration free.

[SirDriftalots 0]

God I wish some people followed half these examples.
My personal pet peeve is being rammed off the track by someone in front of you having made a mistake and taking you out as a result of wanting to get straight back on the racing line.

Or,  people who arent willing to seed first to a much faster driver, and rather ruin both racers efforts for a few measly xp points or credits. I mean the credit/xp difference is a lot less  between 1st and 2nd then say, 1st and last.

/rant

[RTAnoskills 0]

SirDriftalots said:

My personal pet peeve is being rammed off the track by someone in front of you having made a mistake and taking you out as a result of wanting to get straight back on the racing line
___________________________________________

I agree with that,  What really annoys me is when, the above happens, and the person who made the mistake then blames me,  for their mistake.  

[Operator1 4]

http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/comment/33215/#Comment_33215

Operator1 said:

...
National Auto Sport Association (NASA) Club Codes & Regulations
http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/ccr.pdf

"...Section 25.4 Rules for Overtaking

25.4.1 Passing General

The responsibility for the decision to pass another car, and to do it safely, rests with the overtaking driver... The act of passing is initiated when the trailing car's (Car A) front bumper overlaps with the lead car's (Car B ) rear bumper. The act of passing is complete when Car A's rear bumper is ahead of Car B's front bumper...

25.4.2 Punting

The term 'punting' is defined as nose to tail (or side-of-the-nose to side-of-the-tail) contact, where the leading car is significantly knocked off of the racing line. Once the trailing car has its front wheel next to the driver of the other vehicle, it is considered that the trailing car has a right to be there. And, that the leading driver must leave the trailing driver enough 'racing room.' ...

25.4.3 Right to the Line

The driver in front has the right to choose any line, as long as they are not considered to be blocking. The driver attempting to make a pass shall have the right to the line when their front wheel is next to the driver of the other vehicle...

25.4.4 Blocking

A driver may choose to protect his or her line so long as it is not considered blocking. Blocking is defined as two (2) consecutive line changes to 'protect his/her line,' and in doing so, impedes the vehicle that is trying to pass with each of the two (2) consecutive movements...

25.6 Off-course Excursions

The competitor is required to follow the marked course during competition and shall not gain an advantage by an off-course excursion. An off-course excursion is defined as leaving the marked course with all four wheels..."

FIA F1 Driving Protocol

http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/sporting_regulations/8683/fia.html

"20) DRIVING...

20.2 Drivers must use the track at all times. For the avoidance of doubt the white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not.

A driver will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with the track.

Should a car leave the track the driver may re-join, however, this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining any lasting advantage...

20.3 More than one change of direction to defend a position is not permitted.

Any driver moving back towards the racing line, having earlier defended his position off-line, should leave at least one car width between his own car and the edge of the track on the approach to the corner.

20.4 Any driver defending his position on a straight, and before any braking area, may use the full width of the track during his first move, provided no significant portion of the car attempting to pass is alongside his. Whilst defending in this way the driver may not leave the track without justifiable reason.

For the avoidance of doubt, if any part of the front wing of the car attempting to pass is alongside the rear wheel of the car in front this will be deemed to be a 'significant portion'.

20.5 Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted.

20.6 As soon as a car is caught by another car which is about to lap it during the race the driver must allow the faster driver past at the first available opportunity..."

[RTAnoskills 0]

racrguy66 said:

I would also like to say that in time trials is  by far the worst. I cant say how many times I have caught players and when I  try to pass them they deliberately swerve over and try to wreck and block you. I was invited by another driver to race in a time trial, and caught up to him and he continually blocked me so when I gave him a nudge to let him know he was holding me up in case there was any doubt (did it on a straight and did not not wreck him just tapped him) he became furious and had me voted out after the race. I tried to explain that he was given a head start and the right thing to do was to pull aside to allow me  to pass, he disagreed? Now am I wrong to assume this?  I always move if someone is close as to not ruin their chance at a good lap time and get off the racing line while I  do it. Comments?

Its a time attack.  A race against the clock.  Not a race against other cars. 
Codemasters should have realised this, and turned off collisions for all clock racing events. 

The guy should have moved out of your way, as its not a race.   But people are idiots and wont.  
I tend to waste 1st lap of a time attack, to just drop right to the back,  Almost getting lapped by the guy who started 1st.  Atleast that way I have a clear track. 

[RTAnoskills 0]

racrguy66 said:

@Operator1   I take it from what i read  that I was correct . When he went wide in the turn I assumed that was the line he was going to take and did not know he was going to dive back down across the track. So from what i read about "leaving racing room" it was in fact NOT my fault.

Hey screwed up, he went wide, he SHOULD have stayed wide.  NOT your fault. 

[FOSTBITTEN 0]

I have posted some of the same types of ideas/complaints. But, after some thought I have came to this conclusion: While you think you have been done wrong or dirty by someone chances are they have a different side of the story and they swear they are right too. So unless you have a completely non-partial person that saw the incident nothing will be resolved. And even then it probably will still not be resolved. I am not saying this to take anyone's side I am just stating my thoughts and who knows I may be wrong.

There is one thing that does get me mad is when racing with a group of cars and you are giving the folks in front of you room into a tight section like a chicane and you get run over from behind. Then when you say something about to this person they don't apologize they instead say you are slow or were holding them up. Like you had anywhere to go in the 1st place. Most of the time though if this happens early in a race, you will beat them because their impatient ways will cost them again. 

[RTAnoskills 0]

FOSTBITTEN said:

I have posted some of the same types of ideas/complaints. But, after some thought I have came to this conclusion: While you think you have been done wrong or dirty by someone chances are they have a different side of the story and they swear they are right too. So unless you have a completely non-partial person that saw the incident nothing will be resolved. And even then it probably will still not be resolved. I am not saying this to take anyone's side I am just stating my thoughts and who knows I may be wrong.

There is one thing that does get me mad is when racing with a group of cars and you are giving the folks in front of you room into a tight section like a chicane and you get run over from behind. Then when you say something about to this person they don't apologize they instead say you are slow or were holding them up. Like you had anywhere to go in the 1st place. Most of the time though if this happens early in a race, you will beat them because their impatient ways will cost them again. 

Agree,  

But alot of incidents could be easily avioded, if these so called clean drivers actually demonstrated they know and understand and practise the above guidelines. 

Ive posted a video of the scenario you describe, when your allowing cars infront of you to do what the're doing,  LOL all I got was "Im constantly backing off"  "Im going too slow,"  "Id hit you if I were behind you"

When there is no where for you to go, because of a tight turn and 2 or 3 cars already scrapping over space,  the only option is to chill and wait.  That doesnt mean pull over and have a picnic, but just dont drive like there is a clear track ahead.

Its down to the car behind to make sure they dont hit the car infront of them in the braking zone. Or any other part of the track. 

How often does last place on the grid of an F1 race, scream down the inside of everyone at the start and cause a mass pile up?  

Even the fastest person on the track, uses their brakes, and wont be at FULL throttle all the time.  :smile:   

[scottishwildcat 184]

racrguy66 said:

This very thing happened to me this afternoon. Was racing at Brands Hatch and this is what happened, I was drafting til the final turn before the start finish straight and I had the inside line, ie the racing line, the other driver was outside and I was PAST his back door almost directly beside him and and he came  down across the track and hit me and almost spun. I slowed after let him go back by and sent hm a message "sorry thought you seen me" which he then replied  with something not so nice. So let me ask, with me being past his back door almost beside him, whos fault would you say that was. Input appreciated.  Thank you.

His fault I'm sure. But to be fair, unless you're racing with a 3rd person camera view (which I find almost impossible with a wheel), I still find it hard to judge with no mirrors and the vague proximity arrows just how close somebody really is. Sure if there's an arrow there at all you should assume you need to leave space, but without hitting the look left/righ button to be sure (which is also incredibly distracting) it’s sometimes very hard to tell who has track position. Might be useful if the arrows at least changed colour or something once there was no clear air between the cars...

[FOSTBITTEN 0]

@racrguy66 I am gonna say the situation you described above was YOUR FAULT!!!! Because you said you hit the brakes. He did it on purpose he knew what he was doing. He saw you and figured he would either wreck you or kill your momentum or both. Now do me proud and next time shine that chrome horn up for him and show him how the horn works! 

But don't do it on the 1st laps of the race. If you can hold off until the last corner of the last lap then dump him. I have been doing this to people who have decided to rough me up on the 1st part of the race. Then whoopsie! I didn't mean to do that.. Too bad you can't get me back until next race. Then we can do it all over again!  B)

[fanticUA 0]

Cute, let's talk about culture of... playing (racing... driving...) ? :)

If you make "First Contact"  don't be surprised when we have a "Close Encounter"

This is not my word...

[kimdurose 0]

FIA F1 Driving Protocol
20.7 - Any instances of overtaking will result in disciplinary action. Races should only be won by the team with the smartest pit stop strategy, cleverest spreadsheets, or Italian red paintwork.

[FOSTBITTEN 0]

The race at Brands Hatch is the race I was speaking of. Some folks had a conversation on here about blocking and one person said something to the effect of "Senna would say bolck them if they are faster than you". My reply : "Earnhardt would say if someone is blocking you then spin them". I am from the U.S. and I speak with a southern accent. So that would pretty much tell you what I think of people trying to block me. Just wait as long as you can to turn them around.

I define blocking as someone who goes out of their way to make sure you cannot pass them, by pushing you off the track or worse yet squeezing you into a wall. Then it is game on because they probably did this way too early in the race. 

[fanticUA 0]

kimdurose said:

FIA F1 Driving Protocol...

s***, stupid rules, stupid races...

[XoxFlukeXox 38]

kimdurose said:

FIA F1 Driving Protocol
20.7 - Any instances of overtaking will result in disciplinary action. Races should only be won by the team with the smartest pit stop strategy, cleverest spreadsheets, or Italian red paintwork.

That needs to be changed to German grey paintwork... unfortunately lol.

[SASBlink 1]

http://www.carthrottle.com/this-is-how-badly-you-need-to-drive-to-get-disqualified-from-gp2/

I will just leave this here....

@fanticUA
You can mark it as spam but this would be you if you actual did race in RL.

[RTAnoskills 0]

fanticUA said:

Cute, let's talk about culture of... playing (racing... driving...) ? :)

If you make "First Contact"  don't be surprised when we have a "Close Encounter"

This is not my word...

No....Its my word.  It means.....if you T-bone me, dont cry when I smash your car off every wall or solid object in the game. 

So if you pull your signature move at the 1st turn, dont cry when people show YOU how much they appreciated it. 

[FOSTBITTEN 0]

racrguy66 said:

@FROSTBITTEN I too am /was a  fan of "THE INTIMADATOR".  I  m not as much  of a fan of NASCAR as say BTTC or V8  SUPERCARS but no one drove like Dale..  Thanks so much for the kind words. You really made me laugh. I race on the PS3.  If you  also,, hit me up for a race. Promise you won't need your chrome horn lol. Not that  I am saying I am faster, just won't block ya mate.

I play on the 360 and it is F-O-S-T-B-I-T-T-E-N with no 'R' in it. It's no problem it is a play on my last name "Fost". You are not the 1st person and will not be the last. I had a guy send me a msg one-time that said "You misspelld your gamertag dumass!" I sent one back telling him I am glad he caught that and I am not a real good speller...

One of the reasons Earnhardt drove the way he did was because he started racing 3 or 4 nights a week or more. And working during the day just so he could pay for his racing and eat! So he had to race hard just to keep going. So many drivers came up this way. Like Petty, Allison, Pearson, Yarborough & Waltrip. Then before them guys like Junior Johnson left the track to go deliver moonshine. So that is one of the reasons Earnhardt drove the way he did, because he had to.

[TheKazzyMac 0]

I haven't seen you on GAS yet. o_o
I remember racing you on Grid 2 though... then again I rarely ever do custom cups because of those damn AI glitches / l-lap indy oval things.

[FOSTBITTEN 0]

I generally race in in the Everything, Touring, or Open Wheel. When I get on that is. Lately I have been too busy to play any length of time.

[revesburger 0]

RTAnoskills said:

- Unfortunately, a lot of NA rooms are full of people who think they're right all the time, and will tell you so in their redneck accent using profanity (I'm American myself and have no shame admitting we have this stereotype for a reason). If this seems to be a common occurrence to you as well, join a European server and make some new friends.

- Similarly, don't go around making accusations constantly over small bumps, it just makes others lose trust in you and you might even end up getting kicked yourself. Racing is not an exact science. After everything you can do to avoid accidents, you can and still will have them. Live and let live.

And most importantly...

- Winning isn't everything. A clean 2nd place is much more satisfying than winning but having the guilt of taking someone out. Remember, there is no stat tracking in GT5, so its all about having fun.

By following these simple guidelines you can play both fairly and frustration free.

these are the only worth reading point to me. especially the last one

I may not be the winner type but at least I know how to keep myself out of trouble

[FOSTBITTEN 0]

racrguy66 said:

@FOSTBITTEN i find it hard to (wait no I dont) believe that someone would have the stones to tell ya YOU spelled YOUR gamertag wrong. The more I hear about people in general, the more I think my dog Is smarter than most lol.

Yes I am sure your dog is smarter than most folks. I know my dog is too. That was an exact quote fromt the guy. He spelled dumbass wrong and mispelled, mispelled! That was the day I learned that people are just too dumb, & should have to take a test to reproduce.

As far as cheaters are concerned that have to cheat at a game that literally costs you money to play it. They should also have to take a reproduction test as well. 

And I also see a trend that seems to back on the upswing. The trend of because I gave you plenty of room that, that means you are soft and going to let them run all over you. Courtesy is lost on some people. But if you find a couple people that appreciate it. Well you just got an unofficial teammate that will you help out when they can. So yeah finishing 2nd sometimes can benefit you later.

[TheKazzyMac 0]

Yeah, I've noticed a few people who will take me as 'soft' because I attempt to avoid collisions and because I'll brake early when I'm on the inside because I know I won't get into the corner without hitting them and will take that as an excuse to assume I'm easy to pass.

I'm easy to pass if I know I'm not entitled to the corner, lol, and then these people who take me as 'soft' get upset when the roles reverse, I take a corner because I'm ahead and on the outside, and they then end up using me as a wall around the corner. Some of the best races I've had have been ones where people have been cautious enough but thrown that one 'daring' move at a point where it's obvious enough to react to and nobody's been driven off a track by it.

Had some good races with Blink yesterday. I need to get better at Bathurst, he kept losing better than I did!

[DukeAgain 0]

@FOSTBITTEN‌ "And I also see a trend that seems to back on the upswing. The trend of because I gave you plenty of room that, that means you are soft and going to let them run all over you. Courtesy is lost on some people. But if you find a couple people that appreciate it. Well you just got an unofficial teammate that will you help out when they can. So yeah finishing 2nd sometimes can benefit you later."

Couldnt agree more!

and cheers for the message last night,was a hard lobby to race clean in!

[SASBlink 1]

@kazzymac, Yeah we had some really good ones mainly because like you said, me and you gave eachother room at the first few corners and carried the speed... we left the pack behind by a good 5 -6 secs by the 2nd corner because they all tried to muscle their way past each other and slowed themselves down....

It was also good to see that fanticUA could not get anywhere near us, I guess those msgs he sent to everyone was  just all big talk ha.