F1 2017: Extra Engine Parts/Grid Penalties

[martbloke 668]

Just seen Tiametmarduk's 3rd career video. As he was going to qualify last (known before qualy from practice) he decided to spare his 1st 4 engine parts and order a 5th part for each part giving him a 5th brand new engine with no real penalty. Now I don't know the official rules for extra parts and penalties, but do you not have to use the 1st 4 of each part before being able to order a 5th, 6th, and more?

Seems a bit open to abuse in this situation if you ask me with no penalty at all given but actually seems to be giving an advantage to you for later in the season - would now have more engine parts to choose from without taking a penalty. 

Surely if you've only used 1 part then f you order a 5th, that should be your 2nd part not 5th, no?

[hcehce419 0]

I asked the same question two days ago

http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/55801/two-problems-after-watching-bens-video-engine-supplier-and-regulations#latest

Replies are " You don't need to use all 4 before you add a 5th. Obviously by adding a 5th part you take a penalty."

[jinCHEZ 0]

It's also something I wondered for my own career as I'm doing it as well. But even if it's not allowed in this way in real-life, I think it's fine for the game that it's been made more convenient because in real-life in theory you could just change an engine every practice session as you can do in the game so you are "allowed" to take a 5th etc. This way where you can just straight get a new one is just a bit more convenient.

[martbloke 668]

hcehce419 said:

I asked the same question two days ago

http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/55801/two-problems-after-watching-bens-video-engine-supplier-and-regulations#latest

Replies are " You don't need to use all 4 before you add a 5th. Obviously by adding a 5th part you take a penalty."

Ah sorry, didn't see your original thread. Still don't agree that it should be allowed but ah well there you go. 

[CompLex1986 18]

I don't understand why this is a problem. If they were already close to last place, then they were probably not going to get any points anyway.

[ImDyingYouIdiot 0]

GavGav983525 said:

So it's basically last years engine rules, and not this years? Interesting.

Nope. This would also be possible in real life.

Teams could've taken a penalty at the first race for a 5th engine. But you're not allowed to take a 6th, 7th and so on at the same event. Or rather you could, but you'd be only allowed to use the *latest* engine. Meaning you'd be still stuck with 5 engines and not for example seven.

Heck, you could take a fresh PU and subsequent penalty at every single race. But who would be desperate enough to do that. Apart from McLaren, of course.

[hcehce419 0]

martbloke said:

hcehce419 said:

I asked the same question two days ago

http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/55801/two-problems-after-watching-bens-video-engine-supplier-and-regulations#latest

Replies are " You don't need to use all 4 before you add a 5th. Obviously by adding a 5th part you take a penalty."

Ah sorry, didn't see your original thread. Still don't agree that it should be allowed but ah well there you go. 

It was kinda confusing, but I don't think it matters that much at the end of the day.

[martbloke 668]

CompLex1986 said:

I don't understand why this is a problem. If they were already close to last place, then they were probably not going to get any points anyway.

So my thinking was this ..... You're going to be consistently in the bottom 4 places for at least the 1st 4, 5 or 6 races. So as there would be minimal impact of penalties to you being this far back, you can add all 6 new engine parts in these 6 races giving you 10 lots of 6 engine parts come the 7th race with minimal wear to use through the next 13 races. By this time you would have also evolved your R&D to such an extent that you can now run midfield pushing for points. You now have a distinct advantage over all those cars regarding engine wear with very, very little chance of getting a grid penalty to hamper your chances of points whereas by this time the normal midfield runners have worn engines and/or could take penalties due to new parts. 

In real life, there is also a penalty in that of the cost of a new engine so the smaller teams wouldn't really go down this route is expect but in a game, you don't get this penalty. It would've been good if say you either have to use the 4 parts in some respect before you can get your 5th+ parts or there is an R&D cost to buying the extra parts as well as the penalty. The teams have to spend to make the extra parts so why not have this also in game. 

That's where I was coming from and I know you can choose not to do this if you were in say the McLaren, but the option is always there and just seems a bit of a loophole to the point of limiting number of parts ... to try and get costs down by penalising the team who exceed this quota. There just doesn't seem to be a penalty in this respect especially as you know the AI are not programmed to do the same or even have the capacity to think 'Oh we're crap this race so it might be an opportune moment to get new parts in for future races although I still have 3 decent engines left'. 

I apologise if they are programmed like this (and would applaud Codies) but just don't see it. 

[jinCHEZ 0]

You are right. You should lose money for new engines so remove resource points in game. Also I believe in real life you need a new part if that part is upgraded, havent tested yet but dont think its in the game like that.

[CompLex1986 18]

martbloke said:

CompLex1986 said:

I don't understand why this is a problem. If they were already close to last place, then they were probably not going to get any points anyway.

So my thinking was this ..... You're going to be consistently in the bottom 4 places for at least the 1st 4, 5 or 6 races. So as there would be minimal impact of penalties to you being this far back, you can add all 6 new engine parts in these 6 races giving you 10 lots of 6 engine parts come the 7th race with minimal wear to use through the next 13 races. By this time you would have also evolved your R&D to such an extent that you can now run midfield pushing for points. You now have a distinct advantage over all those cars regarding engine wear with very, very little chance of getting a grid penalty to hamper your chances of points whereas by this time the normal midfield runners have worn engines and/or could take penalties due to new parts. 

In real life, there is also a penalty in that of the cost of a new engine so the smaller teams wouldn't really go down this route is expect but in a game, you don't get this penalty. It would've been good if say you either have to use the 4 parts in some respect before you can get your 5th+ parts or there is an R&D cost to buying the extra parts as well as the penalty. The teams have to spend to make the extra parts so why not have this also in game. 

That's where I was coming from and I know you can choose not to do this if you were in say the McLaren, but the option is always there and just seems a bit of a loophole to the point of limiting number of parts ... to try and get costs down by penalising the team who exceed this quota. There just doesn't seem to be a penalty in this respect especially as you know the AI are not programmed to do the same or even have the capacity to think 'Oh we're crap this race so it might be an opportune moment to get new parts in for future races although I still have 3 decent engines left'. 

I apologise if they are programmed like this (and would applaud Codies) but just don't see it. 

Why would you run midfield after the 7th race? Aren't the other teams R&Ding as well?

[aaron685 1]

I have the game since last  Friday as I'm reviewing it. I don't know if it's a bug or not but in Career during the second half of the season I had Saubers and McLaren Hondas starting way inside the top 10. Palmer was on pole in Abu Dhabi. This is season 1, the reason being of course is the top teams were taking a lot of penalties during the final few races. It makes the races more exciting sure but it's not realistic. 

[martbloke 668]

CompLex1986 said:

martbloke said:

CompLex1986 said:

I don't understand why this is a problem. If they were already close to last place, then they were probably not going to get any points anyway.

So my thinking was this ..... You're going to be consistently in the bottom 4 places for at least the 1st 4, 5 or 6 races. So as there would be minimal impact of penalties to you being this far back, you can add all 6 new engine parts in these 6 races giving you 10 lots of 6 engine parts come the 7th race with minimal wear to use through the next 13 races. By this time you would have also evolved your R&D to such an extent that you can now run midfield pushing for points. You now have a distinct advantage over all those cars regarding engine wear with very, very little chance of getting a grid penalty to hamper your chances of points whereas by this time the normal midfield runners have worn engines and/or could take penalties due to new parts. 

In real life, there is also a penalty in that of the cost of a new engine so the smaller teams wouldn't really go down this route is expect but in a game, you don't get this penalty. It would've been good if say you either have to use the 4 parts in some respect before you can get your 5th+ parts or there is an R&D cost to buying the extra parts as well as the penalty. The teams have to spend to make the extra parts so why not have this also in game. 

That's where I was coming from and I know you can choose not to do this if you were in say the McLaren, but the option is always there and just seems a bit of a loophole to the point of limiting number of parts ... to try and get costs down by penalising the team who exceed this quota. There just doesn't seem to be a penalty in this respect especially as you know the AI are not programmed to do the same or even have the capacity to think 'Oh we're crap this race so it might be an opportune moment to get new parts in for future races although I still have 3 decent engines left'. 

I apologise if they are programmed like this (and would applaud Codies) but just don't see it. 

Why would you run midfield after the 7th race? Aren't the other teams R&Ding as well?

Well potentially pushing midfield but with a distinct advantage in engine wear, this could give you an extra boost versus the other teams to make it seem like midfield is easily achievable. Besides, if it is a little similar to 2016, I found the AI did not develop R&D as much as myself. 

Hey, it's just a theory at this stage as of course it hasn't released yet for me to get my hands on it and test so there may be no advantage but still would love that extra parts cost the team say in resource points to help make sure there is a proper penalty to the player. 

[martbloke 668]

aaron685 said:

I have the game since last  Friday as I'm reviewing it. I don't know if it's a bug or not but in Career during the second half of the season I had Saubers and McLaren Hondas starting way inside the top 10. Palmer was on pole in Abu Dhabi. This is season 1, the reason being of course is the top teams were taking a lot of penalties during the final few races. It makes the races more exciting sure but it's not realistic. 

A little worrying,

[SingaporeTrackLizard 101]

No you don't have to. The issue we have is in game you can stock up on parts whilst irl you can't this year after Hamilton's loophole exploiting at spa last year.

[Sadler 1]

haitch40 said:

No you don't have to. The issue we have is in game you can stock up on parts whilst irl you can't this year after Hamilton's loophole exploiting at spa last year.

The game is correct. You can't stock up on parts every weekend. Ive just qualified 20th in Melbourne so took a 5th part for all my engine (and a massive penalty which doesnt hurt me). The game now wont let me add a 6th or 7th engine (as in real life). I can move freely around my 5 units now. Ive gone back to unit 1 for the race but now have 5 sets in my pool instead of 4.

[KevinPnika 0]

aaron685 said:

I have the game since last  Friday as I'm reviewing it. I don't know if it's a bug or not but in Career during the second half of the season I had Saubers and McLaren Hondas starting way inside the top 10. Palmer was on pole in Abu Dhabi. This is season 1, the reason being of course is the top teams were taking a lot of penalties during the final few races. It makes the races more exciting sure but it's not realistic. 

I hope that get's fixed if that is true. Massive realism killer.