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Random Grid Order

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Loore has told us that the dev team think that the current grid order in playlist lobbies (IE player with highest number of points is 1st) is a good idea. Personally I think it sucks and random grid order would make things far more interesting. Please vote if you would like random grid order to be part of a future update.

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better than Random, make it Standings Reversed.

if you are good enough to be in front, you should be good enough to overtake everyone.

most of the times, whoever starts first, wins. especially if they are okay/good drivers. Reverse Standings grid order would make everybody work hard for the win ;)

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... And all the orange tags circuit sweepers start in from to wait for us to pass close by. :(
There should be option to filter tag colors in room and warn guys that crash and goes out of color range ONCE.
let say I start a race for white and green racers only, a green guy cause accident and goes yellow, he get warned, he did it again he get disqualifief and kicked of room.
yellow, orange and red could not join in and get message to improve behavior on race to join in.

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If you want to start at the front you got to earn being there, you do that by winning and gaining points over the people around you.... I love it! If you cant win or gain points over the people around then you deserve to start near the back with the people who race at the speed you race at.

If you finish last every race why should you start first? you just be nuisance to everyone behind you, it will be like grid 2 again, every race you will have the wreckers, trolls and people who cant drive or just learning the game will just get in the way and ruin your races....most of time on purpose..... its unfair on people who are fast.

so no, leave it as it is. if you want random or reverse grid order then go into custom races.

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better than Random, make it Standings Reversed.

if you are good enough to be in front, you should be good enough to overtake everyone.

most of the times, whoever starts first, wins. especially if they are okay/good drivers. Reverse Standings grid order would make everybody work hard for the win ;)
No it would turn it into a Grid 2 ram fest, as the good drivers would have to start behind the idiot drivers all the time.   

Meaning you have to fight to get past half the lobby.   
Random is the only fair way.  

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SASBlink said:
If you want to start at the front you got to earn being there, you do that by winning and gaining points over the people around you.... I love it! If you cant win or gain points over the people around then you deserve to start near the back with the people who race at the speed you race at.

If you finish last every race why should you start first? you just be nuisance to everyone behind you, it will be like grid 2 again, every race you will have the wreckers, trolls and people who cant drive or just learning the game will just get in the way and ruin your races....most of time on purpose..... its unfair on people who are fast.

so no, leave it as it is. if you want random or reverse grid order then go into custom races.
What he said.

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Its boring starting in the front all the time, 

It gets tiring when you have to start next to the same idiot who wants to nail you before you reach the start line.  

Random would  solve the problem, and keep moving racers and idiots around, 

I like the current system, but its not a fair system. 
I have no problem starting from the back,  but I have a massive problem if I have to do it EVERY race.   

Thats exactly why I used 3 save games in Grid 2,  so I can decide where I start. 

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This weekend I had a curious experience... I as in a Custom Race which had reverse grid order, no flashbacks and full damage. I couldnt race. My car was continuously destroyed by people who dont understand what a breaking point is and when side by side think the strategy is to ram the other to the wall... So no, reverse grid no thanks. Random grid is better but gives luck an even bigger part, which is also unfair, in my perspective.

Now, I also dont think that starting based on lobby points is fair, because again is not a matter of skill, but a matter of how much time you spend in a room.

For me the only thing fair and which I guess is closest to having a qualifying session, is to have the grid mirror the results from previous race.

For people that are slower or average having a mix grid may be fun, but for the fastest guys is a problem, not that its not enjoyable, because if you are fighting fair drivers, it really is, but unfortunately most of the times that's not the case.
I have enjoyed random grids many times, although I find them unfair due to the luck factor, but reverse grids I only enjoyed in one situation: ghost racing (no collisions).

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@VGspeedPro -  Id say its that random luck factor that makes it fair.  

Everyone gets a chance to get pole position,  Start last and get nailed, or start in the middle, 

Id like to see an auto lobby points reset, when one person reaches 200 points, Reset everyone to 0.  That would put an end to people leaving lobbies because the guy in 1st place, had 500 ponts.  

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I don't know why people moan so much about dirty racers. is like complaining about bad weather in England. pointless.

not everybody is as good driver as you are (or claim to be)

yes, there are people who, intentionally, ram you off the track for the fun of it. if that happens, learn how to live with it. if you are not happy, go play Custom Cups only with your small circle of friends.

8 times out of 10 there will be a newbie or a troll in a Playlist room. deal with it B)

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@RTAnoskills, I see your point there but im strongly against reverse order and mixed in playlists, people come and go so you wont be starting next to the idiots all the time and if you do get bored of starting first all time you simply join another one....

The grid 2 disaster  still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I play reverse order in custom races quite regularity, its good there as you almost always trust the people you play with so its quite fun overtaking and battling with people you trust to race fairly. In playlists its "dog eat dog" mentality you cant trust people to race fairly, if people race dirty then they slow themselves down and eventually drop down the pecking order so you wont have to deal with them, though i admit starting at the back when you join and having to deal with  these unfair racers while you gain points to start in front of them is  annoying so there is pro and cons to it.

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@VGspeedPro -  Id say its that random luck factor that makes it fair.  

Everyone gets a chance to get pole position,  Start last and get nailed, or start in the middle, 

Id like to see an auto lobby points reset, when one person reaches 200 points, Reset everyone to 0.  That would put an end to people leaving lobbies because the guy in 1st place, had 500 ponts.  
I was just going to bring this up as a " best of both worlds " I think " split second " had this and it worked good

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I don't know why people moan so much about dirty racers. is like complaining about bad weather in England. pointless.

not everybody is as good driver as you are (or claim to be)

yes, there are people who, intentionally, ram you off the track for the fun of it. if that happens, learn how to live with it. if you are not happy, go play Custom Cups only with your small circle of friends.

8 times out of 10 there will be a newbie or a troll in a Playlist room. deal with it B)

or kick them out

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@revesburger  They do get dealt with, very swiftly too,  But I dont want to have to do it, every race.  

At the moment, if I join a lobby, there will be some idiots,  I will have to start behind them,  they will attempt to take me out, when I attempt to pass clean, they will get binned, their friends will get binned, and I will end up starting infront of them.  And they can start at the back calling me dirty.  

I would love to join a lobby, where I dont have to do that.  

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I guess the reactions I had to my comment more or less show Codemasters is correct. I give a solution that removes the "luck factor" and the "how much time you are in a lobby factor", and is only based on skill (of course you can have a bad race and then start from the back, but mainly is a matter of skill from as soon as you finish a race in that lobby), and on those replies people say essentially 2 things: its good to have luck play a factor (which everyone knows is great for competition, thats why all sports look to have it as much as possible) and the next one is "you have to learn to deal with the unfair players, since you cant do anything to avoid them" (which as we all know is very fun and a great thing that should be encouraged in gaming).

Oh well...

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Here's my two pesos.

I actually like the current system. I've been playing long enough to know who's faster than me and who's not, so I know what I'm capable of when I enter a playlist. I see it as a mini career mode; work your way up to the top and reap the benefits of winning. First thing  look at is the point values of everyone in the room, and I take note of who's starting on pole. Then I figure how many races will it take me to get up towards the front of the Grid. Most cases, I aim for a podium finish since I have to work my way up to the front. Some cases once I'm through (if I get through), I'm too far to catch the leader. Other times, I can close the gap. Either way, there's a bit of strategy involved. The thing to remember is patience. You're not gonna win every race, but you can set yourself up for success if you're careful in your first few races.

Now, random grid order would be fine with me as well, but I've had instances of random grid orders in custom cup where I've started bottom four in 2 of 3 races, and back half in all 3. But, it would give newcomers to a lobby a fairer shot at winning right off the bat.

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I would love to join a lobby, where I dont have to do that.  
Custom Cups with friends :)

...and on those replies people say essentially 2 things: its good to have luck play a factor (which everyone knows is great for competition, thats why all sports look to have it as much as possible) and the next one is "you have to learn to deal with the unfair players, since you cant do anything to avoid them" (which as we all know is very fun and a great thing that should be encouraged in gaming).

agree with both statements

@TUSMBOX I like the way you think :)

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This is probably more of a idea for the future games rather than something that might be implemented now, but I personally would like to see global hot lap rankings established for all car class/courses and used to set the grid, regardless of time in lobby or points standings.  (Player lvls are linked to Gamertags, but irrelevant to pace, would rather see global Hot Lap rankings coded to/displayed by Gamertags rather than player level. Heck, I am more interested in the opponent CAR lvl than the player lvl. )  Perhaps knowing that all players in front at the start are faster paced would prevent some of the carnage in turn one. 

One feature of Forza4 I liked was after any race or hot-lapping session (basically TT), you can immediately see your fastest lap in that class/course and where it ranks. Database information includes the date of the lap, the car used, assists on/off, upgrades/stock, dirty/clean lap, etc. This feature covers all car classes and courses and displays this info for all players. 

If a player has no lap time established for a particular car class/course, that player is automatically placed in the grid behind those with an established lap time for that class/course. Clean, violation-free lap times would have priority over any "dirty" times**;  as long as you are hitting things and/or straying off track, you start near the back. 

** ala Forza 4 - for those not familiar,  in that game, any lap time (racing or hot lapping, SP or MP) with an off-track violation or contact with any vehicle or  barrier (this would take care of "wall-riding"), automatically registers below any clean lap. A clean lap will always rank higher than a dirty lap, no matter how fast. In this scenario, for those without any experience with a specific class/course, the only way to move forward in the grid would be to race a smooth, clean lap to establish a lap time better than others in the lobby. Patience, effort and consistent pace would gradually be rewarded as a player could move forward in the grid over several races featuring that particular class/course. OR, go to SP/TT to establish a screaming hot lap for any car class/course, then start near the top of the grid online (basically, qualifying before entering the lobbies) . 

New to MP gaming entirely, so just my 2 cents after a few weeks online. Having my ignorance explained to me will make me less ignorant, so feel free to tell me (as nicely as possible, please) why this is a bad idea... of course you will, why am I even asking. 

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I dont see why there is a discussion.  All options should be available for the host to select.  I personally find random to be the fairest and its the only way I host a room.

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I would love to join a lobby, where I dont have to do that.  
Custom Cups with friends :smile: 

Nah, I prefer the randomness of the online lobbies.  I will just continue to smash idiots out of the lobby.   
I like racing with my friends, but against other people aswell.  Not everyone in a public playlist is a dirty noob. 

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I don't know why people moan so much about dirty racers. is like complaining about bad weather in England. pointless.

not everybody is as good driver as you are (or claim to be)

yes, there are people who, intentionally, ram you off the track for the fun of it. if that happens, learn how to live with it. if you are not happy, go play Custom Cups only with your small circle of friends.

8 times out of 10 there will be a newbie or a troll in a Playlist room. deal with it B)

I've learnt to live with it... I just ram them back lol.

Re the grid order... IMO random grid order is better for all the reasons ppl have given above. 

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No thanks... im a mediocre racer at best and I dont think it would be fair to place me out front where I would impede better racers. I also like the challenge of working my way towards the top of a room where i can try to follow the race lines and braking points of the pros of this game and get a little better myself. As for the crashers they eventually get kicked. Leave it the way it is so that people who are trying to get better can learn from the people out front.

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