Jump to content
Want to report an issue? Have a bug to report? Please look here first!!!! Read more... ×
Scheduled Updates and BETA Shutdown - 06/07/2020 Read more... ×
F1 2020 | KNOWN KEY ISSUES | READ ME!!! Read more... ×

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

F1 2017 - Unfair durability when not on 100%

Recommended Posts

Hi,

as we can see in the Steam discussion page, there are alot of people claiming that the part durability seems to be horrible when driving at 25% race length.
Actually it is not possible to race a full season with 25% race length properly.
I was able to confirm this, when doing a usual 25% race, I was end at 52% and even 61% for the engine - after just one race!

To find the root of the problem I made some tests.
The results of the tests in detail follows below, but before I have a short summary.

I did some calculation and come to this result:

25% race length: 1% wear per lap
50% race length: 0.5% wear per lap
100% race length: 0.25% wear per lap

Examples:

Lets say you do 20 laps in practice and 6 laps in qualify, you will end 
with a 25% race at:
P (20 * 1) = 20%
Q (6 * 1) = 6%
R (15 * 1) = 15%
= 41%

What about the same in 50%:
P (20 * 0.5%) = 10%
Q (6 * 0.5%) = 3%
R (29 * 0.5) = 14.5%
= 27.5%

And now the full 100%:
P (20 * 0.25%) = 5%
Q (6 * 0.25%) = 1.5%
R (58 * 0.25) = 14.5%
= 21%

What I actually expect from Codemasters, is that for Practice and Qualify the calculation for 100% races counts and only the race itself is adjusted accordingly.

E.G.:
25%
P (20 * 0.25%) = 5%
Q (6 * 0.25%) = 1.5%
R (15 * 1) = 15%
= 21.5%

50%
P (20 * 0.25%) = 5%
Q (6 * 0.25%) = 1.5%
R (29 * 0.5) = 14.5%
= 21%

100%
P (20 * 0.25%) = 5%
Q (6 * 0.25%) = 1.5%
R (58 * 0.25) = 14.5%
= 21%

Then it is always equal no matter of the race length.


Of course the values may differ a little, but it seems to fit well regarding values and observations the 10h I drove today.

Here my detailed test results.
(Unfortunatelly I was very late always at the exact amount of laps.)
P min mean practice with the most possible points at the most less possible laps. This is mostly about 7 to 9 laps
P max is always exact 30 laps in practice, to get the maximum on points.
Q min is just the quick qualify with only one lap
Q max is the 3 round qualification with always 3 up to 5 laps.


25% (15)
-------------
P min 12%
Q min 13%
R 23% (worst part 28%)
(7 + 1 + 15 = 23 * 1 = 23%)


25% (15)
-------------
P max 33%
Q max 42%
R 52% (worst part 61%)
(30 + 5 + 15 = 50 * 1 = 50%)


50% (29)
-------------
P min 6%
Q min 6%
R 16% (worst part 19%)
(7 + 1 + 29 = 37 * 0.5 = 18.5%)


50% (29)
-------------
P max 17%
Q max 22%
R 31% (worst part 37%)
(30 + 5 + 29 = 64 * 0.5 = 32%)


100% (58)
-------------
P min 3%
Q min 3%
R -not done yet-
(7 + 1 + 58 = 66 * 0.25 = 16.5)


100% (58)
-------------
P max 8%
Q max 9%
R -not done yet-
(30 + 5 + 58 = 93 * 0.25 = 23.25)


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Corrected the post because of some bad calculation. But on the end the main problem still exists that practice and qualify will have the same durability impact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yep, practice and qualy wear rates are broken in terms of scaling. How could they miss this in testing?!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nice job mate. R&d is kinda broken too because of that. I am investing in nothing but durability.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Very good work! This is what we all wanted to see. It's obvious that Codemasters doesn't have a testing team. There is no Q&A. "It compiles! Let's ship it!" They don't play their own game. They only do a few races for Youtube videos and that's it! How can they indeed miss something huge like this??? This is not a simple bug. This is total incompetence. The career is one of the big things of the game. I have seen better testing being done when I studied CS. I am frustrated as I already have spent many hours with the career and I feel like I have to do it all over again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Eptesicus said:
Yep, practice and qualy wear rates are broken in terms of scaling. How could they miss this in testing?!!

these new feature should have been given to the beta testers to make sure they work ect instead of getting them to test old slightly updated systems, the public matchmaking is disqualifying people ant end of qaully and then same on race

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed this. Im on xbox and im driving a Williams. The ICE is already at 80% after 2 races. Not right at all. This needs a fix. PLEASE CODEMASTERS SORT IT!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I retested with the today patch 1.5.
I had not much time and energy today to do all the test, so I have only some data, but I got the new values.

For 25% races the average wear is 0.65% per lap
For 50% races the average wear is 0.45% per lap
For 100% races the average wear is 0.25% per lap

So when do
30 laps Practice, 3 Laps qualify and the race the results will be for
25% = 31.2%
50% = 27.9%
100% = 22.75%

The values are better, yes, but still not good enough in my opinion.
Looks more like a compromise for me than a real fix.

From the developer point of view (I am) I think Codemasters has a general problem with this. This wear on 25% or 50% is not easy to solve.
I think there is no "calculation factor" which says that for 25% races the wear is multiplied by anything, I think it is solved by the overall lifespan for each part only. The wear on the track is always the same no matter how long the race will be.

It got developed with focus on the 100%, then the problem appeared, what to do if the user drives only 50% or 25%. Its is impossible with the same lifespan because then an engine lasts three times longer than for 100% races.
So they decided to just decrement the overall lifespan of the parts.

In the current patch 1.5 the "fix" is only that this overall lifespan is incremented a little.
People wo drives only the minimum on 25% races, so about 7 laps practice and 1 lap qualify, will win from this situation, they engines will last longer in compare to the same strategy for 100% races.

Anyway. I think this issue would need a much more deeper investigation and change in the code by Codemasters. Maybe not fixed at all and we have to life with this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Great post. I'm sure they will be able to fix it as they just need to tweak it a bit more and make the parts last longer for 25% and 50%  and get rid of any scaling for practice and quali.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm worried that CODEMASTERS have now made career mode almost unplayable for those that dont do 100% and there is little going back. The glitchiest/bug filled F1 game yet?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They will fix it. They have to, with forza, project cars 2 and gran turismo on the horizon they will have plenty of competition!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Apparently the update hasn't completely fixed it. Not sure by what percentage it has improved things. I hope they sort the scaling out. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The thing is it can favor 25% races now if you are doing less than 20 laps in practice. So I wouldn't call it unplayable :smile:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I did 8 laps in practice in both 25% and 100% and wear was twice as high in the shorter race length practice
Of course it is high! When you combined it with race your wear will be much less than 100%

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In my oringinal career with sauber I had 18% wear at the end of the first race after doing 17 laps in practice and two qualifying laps. Is there anyone who has done career in 100% to compare? 

I still think if they completely remove any scaling from the practice and qualifying it would be much better and would fix the problem. We shall see what happens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well, that would be nice. But I don't think they will.
I think its a more deep problem there. The wear per lap is always the same, no matter of the race length.
For sessions configured to 20% or 25% they just decreased the overal durability of all parts.
And of course, when doing 30 laps practice for parts which lasts only 150 laps, its more % wear instead of for parts which lasts 370 laps.

There is no scaling used actually. It would need to invented. And thats a hard task I think.

I don't think there will be any additional fix. We have to life with it like it is now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I guess they would have to make the engine parts more durable during practice and then when you race the durability changes. So practice durability is normal and then race it's set to race length.

If it effects the ai as well then it still needs looking at as that is probably causing the ai to wear their engines out quickly as they will do so many laps in practice.

I love the racing in the game but it seems to be full of issues more so than previous years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Looking at FP1 and 2 today, Bottas did 50+ laps. On the game that would be impossible even on 100% as 5 races would take 250 laps out of the 300 lap lifespan of the PU and gearboxes. The lifespab really needs upping on the game.

Also the gearbox rules are not quite correct, teams use practice ones in fp1 and 2 then races ones for fp3, quali and race. The rules class the 6 evens it needs to last as fp3, quali and the race. Not fp1 and 2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
After the update and with some durability upgrades the wear doesn't seem to be a problem at all anymore for me on 50% distance. I'm halfway through season 2 and I can make the 6 races on each gearbox. It actually looks like I'll be able to make the entire season without a single penalty or DNF because of component failure. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
@F1Support

there is a chance they might scrap this durability thing for next years game. It's been a flop and I don't think people really care about needing to change gearboxes...yada yada ya. Go back to F1 2016 r&d structure. Either that or make it optional. The more complicated the career gets, the more there is to go wrong. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks for the updated calculations, @devicenator !

T
his is getting ridiculous, Codemaster!! It's a damn math problem and nothing else, so it really can't be that difficult to fix it...!!

Before the patch: 99 laps life span, hardly enough for 2 races (including practice) without having major gearbox- and enginge problems. After the patch: 150 laps lifespan. +50 %, so obviously still not close to what you need if you try to complete all practice programmes! You really don't get that? I mean, you don't even differ between "one shot qualifying" ond "full qualifying", for god's sake...!!!

Ok, le'ts do some maths: 17-20 practice laps minimum (because wear for out- and in-lap seems to be similar to a fast lap) + qualifying (at least 3-5 laps but only if you don't make it to Q2) + race (15 laps) means we need an absolute minimum of 35 laps per race!! And then we still don't have a chance to add some free practice laps, second attemps for programmes or a long run (but ok forget that as we talk about 25% career). Still, no Q2, no Q3...

So, even if you set life span to 200 laps, it's hardly enough for 25% career - it might just be enough to survive 4 races. Not by driving carfully, but still just by doing the absolute minimum of practice laps. With 250 laps we might get closer... Don't forget that even then we will quickly reach a level where technical defects appear, long before we get to 100% wear of any engine part. But at least, this can be handled with the developement element...

(oh, just by the way: in 50% career, lifespan is 209 laps... now please do your maths yourself...)

So PLEASE FIX THAT ISSUE, it's really getting annoying. I love car handling in F1 2017, it's really fun to play! Also the element of Vehicle Management is interesting - but together with other amateurish bugs and glitches, it just makes career mode a f****** joke...! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×