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Reading back through the thread...

I see that no demo is planned. I can only conclude that you do not have confidence in your game. If your game is a great game then a number one priority would be to get as many people playing a demo as possible.

Nobody who got stung with grid 2 is going to buy grid autosport without trying it first.
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How can a company strive so hard and get 95% of everything right and let that other 5% relegate the game to mediocre, at best? Upon the latest news, I feel that's what we are going to get with Grid:  Autosport.

Toca:  "The game allows, and sometimes requires, pit stops during which cars can get new tires, fuel, and repairs." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOCA_Race_Driver_3

Grid Autosport:  No pitstops. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=109056267&postcount=100

What game can seriously call itself "a more authentic racing game" without pitstops?

Without them, tire wear is virtually meaningless and you can't have any real damage model.

Too bad Codemasters just can't get out of their own way, because I think they have demonstrated they have the talent and the knowledge to make a truly authentic, broad-based racer for the console.
Balb0wa said:
"In fact, there are more circuits in GRID: Autosport than there are in Race Driver: GRID and GRID 2 combined " praise the lord
Thank you. It does sound great. Sounds like it had everything.

How can a company strive so hard and get 95% of everything right and let that other 5% relegate the game to mediocre, at best? Upon the latest news, I feel that's what we are going to get with Grid: Autosport.

Toca: "The game allows, and sometimes requires, pit stops during which cars can get new tires, fuel, and repairs." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOCA_Race_Driver_3

Grid Autosport: No pitstops. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=109056267&postcount=100

What game can seriously call itself "a more authentic racing game" without pitstops?

Without them, tire wear is virtually meaningless and you can't have any real damage model.

Too bad Codemasters just can't get out of their own way, because I think they have demonstrated they have the talent and the knowledge to make a truly authentic, broad-based racer for the console.
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@Loore

Can you explain a bit how the 5 disciplines are presented within the game, percentage wise?  Is the main focus on the Touring discipline? Are we talking about 25 % or 40 % of the content? Or are all the disciplines equally devided?

Will there also be a possibillity to take pictures during replays?





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Cap's already put in (most) of his (politely eloquent) thoughts :)

I agree with most of what you suggest but I liked having corner cut penalties when it worked but got p****d off with people avoiding the penalty zone entirely e.g Redbull ring 2nd corner sooo many people ran wide on the grass till just after the end of the kerbs and never got penalised. 

If you HAVE to include penalties please be aware of the malicious idiots who ram people off track to force a penalty on you
 in order to get past. if this happens i,e, you are NOT responsible for the "off" penalise the idiot behind as well or instead.

Running on the greenery needs to be seriously slower than the tarmac, it was ALWAYS this way in Grid 1, better yet, don't just lower acceleration but make it NO acceleration whatsoever till they return to the blackstuff.


Yep, if they implement corner cutting penalties properly this time round then I'm all for it but Grid 2 was a bit broken and as you say getting rammed by idiots and getting a corner cut penalty was not the way to do it. 

Hopefully our cars wont be catapulted forward when the car behind rams us, but Grid 1 still done it better though there were a few corner cuts that were never fixed, for the most part Codemasters made sure there were off track obstacles to stop most of them or made it a high risk strategy as in Grid 1's Spa race circuit at the Les Combes where you could gain a huge advantage by cutting the corner but if you misjudged it you lost a lot of time.

And yes I have been browsing the new forum since I found out about it yesterday and I see ol cap is definitely in fine form ;)




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i would like pitstops too some times but because mainly i am online player and i like more sort races between 3-5 laps (so no pitstops) is not a big problem for me..Grid 1 has not pitstops too but it was very good with competitive races...if you seek a good racing game with pitstops , you have to wait until november for project cars..:)

as well as i would like a flag's penalty system like this of formula 1 series or toca 3 , with notification's flags , too severe lvl or less , +seconds in the end of race , and not like this of grid 2..
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i would like pitstops too some times but because mainly i am online player and i like more sort races between 3-5 laps (so no pitstops) is not a big problem for me.
Your post just made me think of something.  I personally think a 3 to 5 lap race only encourages recklessness and too many 1st corner pile ups.  With that in mind......

@Loore

What will be the maximum number of laps allowable in MP?.

ta
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and yeh i agree. pretty stupid not bringin a demo out for this seeing as grid 2 was a big flop and no demo either. i wont be rushing out to buy this or preordering it.. you really need to release demos with games like this. not just think you can blag us off with txt and videos
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i would like pitstops too some times but because mainly i am online player and i like more sort races between 3-5 laps (so no pitstops) is not a big problem for me.
Your post just made me think of something.  I personally think a 3 to 5 lap race only encourages recklessness and too many 1st corner pile ups.  With that in mind......

@Loore

What will be the maximum number of laps allowable in MP?.

ta
20 laps max I read somewhere
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Early Access would really be a good point for this game.
I actually never bought GRID (I thought it was all about sliding) but GRID A really looks like a great game.

However, reading of all those who (kinda) dissliked GRID 2, and remembering all the usual bugs in F1 games - combined with the Codemasters words "We really listened" - I really see an Early Access as a "reunion" thing between CM and all its community!
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I see you all  talking in laps here.
Its more about time for me...10 mins per race always seemed a good number.
any longer and its kinda becoming endurance...which for me isnt fun.

I wouldnt like to do 20 laps at a long lap circuit like say spa...if its about 2 mins a lap thats 40 mins.[conservative estimate]
Thats way too long for me.


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early access or better a demo... 
and the real difference "we really listened" is support after release with bug fix and patch...
i still see comments on grid facebook of people asking for grid2 laps count fix on derby LOL
yeah 

there are features as text chat we will not see on release date, 
but maybe with a good support can be introduced with the first patch...
the same for spectator mode and for all bugs we will find playing...

this game is almost complete, we have back cockpit, handling, best lap times etc..
if they keep work on after release maybe we will see a better online lobby features,
like text chat and spectator mode from lobby that are both thing confirmed out of the game.

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early access or better a demo... 
and the real difference "we really listened" is support after release with bug fix and patch...
i still see comments on grid facebook of people asking for grid2 laps count fix on derby LOL
yeah 

there are features as text chat we will not see on release date, 
but maybe with a good support can be introduced with the first patch...
the same for spectator mode and for all bugs we will find playing...

this game is almost complete, we have back cockpit, handling, best lap times etc..
if they keep work on after release maybe we will see a better online lobby features,
like text chat and spectator mode from lobby that are both thing confirmed out of the game.

I can't agree more about the "aftersupport".
CM NEED to take some "working hours" away from developing into bug removing.
With Early Acces, many users would be able to report bugs while the game programmers are still on the subject, not moved into other tasks
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Goonertez said:
I see you all  talking in laps here.
Its more about time for me...10 mins per race always seemed a good number.
any longer and its kinda becoming endurance...which for me isnt fun.

I wouldnt like to do 20 laps at a long lap circuit like say spa...if its about 2 mins a lap thats 40 mins.[conservative estimate]
Thats way too long for me.


20 laps is a maximum, you can select a number of options starting from the 3 lap races. For a 10 minute fix you're probably looking at the 5-7 lap races depending on the circuit in question.
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Has it been confirmed there will no demo? I would really like to try this on my laptop before investing in something that may or may not run smooth on my machine. Better yet, do you need any PC testers? :)
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P308R said:
@Loore

Can you explain a bit how the 5 disciplines are presented within the game, percentage wise?  Is the main focus on the Touring discipline? Are we talking about 25 % or 40 % of the content? Or are all the disciplines equally devided?

Will there also be a possibillity to take pictures during replays?
All disciplines are equally divided. So, Career mode is broken down into five sections (one for each discipline). You can choose which discipline you want to race in and the more you progress through it, the more becomes available.

For example, if you take Touring Cars. You'll start off racing with entry level cars and by the end of the career you'll be racing in the more powerful Touring Car Spec Cars.

There is no photo mode.
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SynGamer said:
Has it been confirmed there will no demo? I would really like to try this on my laptop before investing in something that may or may not run smooth on my machine. Better yet, do you need any PC testers? :)
At this time, there is no demo.
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The development time here concerns me.

Grid 2 was apparently in development for several years and, as we all know, it was utter rubbish. How can such a vastly superior game be released just a year after codemasters saw what a spectacular sales failure Grid 2 was?

Do codemasters understand why we don't trust them any more?  What happened to their 5% claim?  They said they left cockpit view out of grid 2 because only 5% of people use it. Now they are making a big fanfare about bringing it back. Why would you bring back something that only 5% of people used?
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Loore said:
SynGamer said:
Has it been confirmed there will no demo? I would really like to try this on my laptop before investing in something that may or may not run smooth on my machine. Better yet, do you need any PC testers? :)
At this time, there is no demo.
You have no confidence in your own game. It is the only conclusion that can be drawn.

There is no way I will be scammed again. I am going to make sure I play this before buying it. If that means I have to download it from a torrent then so be it.
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The development time here concerns me.

Grid 2 was apparently in development for several years and, as we all know, it was utter rubbish. How can such a vastly superior game be released just a year after codemasters saw what a spectacular sales failure Grid 2 was?

Do codemasters understand why we don't trust them any more?  What happened to their 5% claim?  They said they left cockpit view out of grid 2 because only 5% of people use it. Now they are making a big fanfare about bringing it back. Why would you bring back something that only 5% of people used?
Lotta sense being written here
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Common misconception that GRID 2 was being made for 'several' years, simply not the case :)

Completely understand if you've lost trust, I've said it before, will say it again - that's fine. It's entirely up to us to re-earn that trust. Regarding the 5%, obviously lessons have been learnt and we're not above admitting we made decisions that didn't go down well. I'd like to think that when looking at features to put in the game we don't just look at how many people used it, it's what's right for the game.

Even less people use split-screen but we still include that for example. Same as female audio names, the call for those are smaller than their male counterparts but it doesn't make them any less important.

Team have been working flat out around the clock to get Autosport finished.
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Loore said:
[Cut]
... I'd like to think that when looking at features to put in the game we don't just look at how many people used it, it's what's right for the game.

Team have been working flat out around the clock to get Autosport finished.
Refering to that, I have to ask (once more, sorry) why it was decided to leave out pitting?
GRID A seemes to be such a big step forward to semi-sim exept this.. imo.

Is it possible to reach implementing in any way?
Don't have to be a graphic explosion, just the car going in there and get a repair and/or fuel..
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I'm sure CM is driving the develop car into the right direction,
Be careful about online dynamics, rules, lobby, deadtime filling etc...
online of grid2 is something of unusable, and autosport born already with most of no-sense in common.
Online experience is not just race dynamics, there are a lot of stuff need to balanced.
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Loore said:
Common misconception that GRID 2 was being made for 'several' years, simply not the case :)



That isn't what the developers said in interviews before the release of grid 2.

In fact, they told us that they were able to take their time with grid 2 and we were also told that it was codemasters most expensive project ever.

You see, this is where you lose trust because you aren't being honest. Rather like your massaging of the sales figures.

Here is what your own website says about grid 2:

http://www.officialplaystationmagazine.co.uk/2012/09/07/grid-2-preview-players-are-going-to-feel-as-immersed-as-a-real-driver/

"In pre-production for two years, GRID 2 is now in full development on the latest evolution of the award-winning EGO Game Technology Platform. Following the success of GRID, which set new standards for damage, AI, visuals and introduced the Flashback time rewind feature - now adopted by many racing games – GRID 2 will again raise the gameplay and technological bar for motorsport gaming and remain true to the series’ core value – it’s all about the race."

So there was 2 years of pre-production before the actual production started. I would think that is classed as several years in development.

It has certainly had more development than grid autosport.

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I do have a slight sense of fear about GRID Autosport. It seems announced and released far too quickly, almost as though Codemasters thought GRID2 didn't sell well enough, so they undid a bunch of things, re-added GRID1 features, popped in some tracks from GRID1 (okay re-textured) and some from F1, then whack it out as a new game.

I'd love to be proved wrong, but seeing the blurry in-car cam (similar to the mod for GRID2) and the list of things changed back to how they were with GRID1 (handling, cockpit, semi-sim, teams, etc), it does sound a bit rushed out.

I've watched the F1 games go from the brown/grey stained F1 2010, to something that almost approaches the colourful look of Grand Prix 4, and can't help but wish GRID Autosport had the same sort of naturalistic colouring, as seen in the TOCA Race Driver series.

I also yearn for the range of vehicles/championships in the TOCA games. I thought Codemasters had cornered the market with TOCA Race Driver 3, never before in any game had so much varied, well, autosport (heh) been collected into one game. And much of it based on real-life cars or championships. I wish we could have some more of that, ducking from classic F1 to rally, to truck racing, touring car, GT, lawnmowers...!

Anyway maybe that's a ghost of Codemasters' past. It's a bit of a shame. Although get some real life championships into GRID Autosport and I'll change my mind! The fields of identical IndyCars in GRID2 just didn't seem very realistic...

Maybe for GRID Autosport 2 you could start with a handful of licensed series, then add more via DLC? Who here would buy a game with nothing but the BTCC in it, for example, then add the championships/series they want to, later? Anyway food for thought, I'm rambling now.

p.s. I hope Brands Hatch is in GRID Autosport, as it'll then have been in all the TOCA/Race Driver/GRID titles...
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In this interview on gamestm:


http://www.gamestm.co.uk/features/grid_2_interview/


The interviewer asks the developer:

"games™: You’ve discussed previously that the long development time has enabled the studio to better realise its vision for the sequel. What advancements have you made that wouldn’t be possible a few years ago"

So Clive Moody, at some point, has said that the development time of Grid 2 was long.

So was it long Loore? Or is Clive Moody wrong?

My point remains. This autosport game is rushed compared to Grid 2. I would be interested to know how you have managed to produce a superior game in less time.


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NO FLASHBACKS!!!!


Mini tournaments/events based on one car class, same as Grid 1



No tuned cars, we want an even playing field, rather than being out raced by the minority who know how to tune their cars better than us mere mortals / non petrol heads :D

No corner cutting penalties, instead use off track obstacles to stop players cutting corners or drastically slow the car down when it drives over grass/gravel etc, just like Grid 1.

End of screen stats to include
Current WR
Best Lap
Personal Best indicator against each player for all to see


A return of Grid 1's Time Trial, none of that silly Time Attack nonsense.


No cockpit view - fixed
DLC mess - fixed
Handling - fixed
Online Ram fest - ???



agree, very important !!
+1
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Longer than GRID Autosport, 2 years development still isn't 'several' that many believe happened, that's a couple.

Autosport isn't rushed by any means, it's all been planned out to a meticulous level and the team have worked incredibly hard to get the game to where it is now. 
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Maybe for GRID Autosport 2 you could start with a handful of licensed series, then add more via DLC? Who here would buy a game with nothing but the BTCC in it, for example, then add the championships/series they want to, later? Anyway food for thought, I'm rambling now.

I would! Or a WTCC game. Or like in the past a combination of series. BTCC, WTCC, DTM, V8 Supercars etc.
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Loore said:
Longer than GRID Autosport, 2 years development still isn't 'several' that many believe happened, that's a couple.

Autosport isn't rushed by any means, it's all been planned out to a meticulous level and the team have worked incredibly hard to get the game to where it is now. 
The two years was just pre-production. The actual production was at least another year. So that is 3 years.

Also, the developers described the process as "long". They talked about how they were able to take their time. In one interview they say it actually started after grid 1 was released but they had to wait for the technology to catch up.

You are being just as disingenuous as you were on the old forum, Loore.

When someone has to start arguing about the definition of "several" then you know they are in trouble.
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A few of points for you doubters (I'm one of them also).

1) CM asked several gamers to their HQ, said visit happened in November last year, (21st if memory serves me, I was one who was invited but was unable to attend due to work).  The purpose of the visit was to re-engage the gaming community, let us tell them what was so wrong with G2 and also what we wanted to see from future games. 

2) More importantly was that the visitors were getting the opportunity to test upcoming releases. Those that attended had to accept to a non disclosure agreement.

3) For there to be a playable Alpha code, development had to be ongoing for some considerable time prior to the visit.

4) Given the above points (especially getting old skool gridders involved), I suspect the intervening months have been about addressing the visitors views, reviews and input regarding the state of gameplay of the Alpha code, giving 5 months between the visit and Grid Autosports announcement.

On a personal note, lack of text chat from day 1 (for Me anyway) is a pain but there's always Steam (for PC users anyway) but this is restricted to your friends.

Pit stops imo are a waste of time, effort and the resources needed to include them, they weren't in Grid 1, Grid was never a SIM it was a crossover concentrating on the RACING, not the bells and whistles.

Don't get me wrong here, pitstops do add a strategy element but aren't a deal breaker regarding any driving game (for me anyway), Same can be said of practice and qualifying, a nice feature to have but, only if you want it or use it.

On the whole I'm encouraged but as many others here have said the lack of trust is still inhibiting any desire to pre-order. A Demo or early access WOULD put our fears/hopes to rest one way or the other, It would also likely increase the numer of pre-orders (IF they've indeed got it right this time).

In the long run I doubt I'll pre-order until or unless there is a demo or we can get some serious input from those who were at the visit to HQ
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P308R said:
@Loore

Can you explain a bit how the 5 disciplines are presented within the game, percentage wise?  Is the main focus on the Touring discipline? Are we talking about 25 % or 40 % of the content? Or are all the disciplines equally devided?

Will there also be a possibillity to take pictures during replays?





would have thought everything would be treated equally they have been in the previous games anyway I think
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One thing that does concern me about Grid Autosport...

Grid 2 was clearly aimed at teenage, american "fast and furious" fans. Those, I suspect, were the people online doing all the ramming. They will now be attracted to this Grid Autosport game, thinking it is aimed at them too.

I do not want to pay a large sum of money for this game and find that online is full of 12 year old rammers. I suppose the only answer is to watch the forum for the first week or 2 after release and see what the consensus is.

The problem with that though is that by the time you buy the game, everyone else is 2 weeks ahead of you and it is very hard to catch up.
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@Loore

I just popped in GRID1 again last night and played for a few hours. One of the big things that bugged me that I don't believe has been discussed yet is that the races in career mode are too short. Most races being only a couple of laps long isn't realistic and really breaks the immersion. In my opinion, races need to be at least 10 laps long to be really engaging. I know that a lot of people don't want really long races, but can't you just have the option like in the F1 games where you can choose the race length? Then everybody will be happy. It isn't that difficult to implement something like that is it? I know it's been said that there aren't going to be pitstops, but tire wear can just be rescaled like in the F1 games.
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Got the news today and pre-ordered after seeing the preview video and from what I read. As a big motorsport racing game fan I loved GRID1 and was so looking forward to GRID2. But man was I disappointed with that game. Never bothered to finish it. Hate it. I want back to basics real track based racing. Realistic scenarios and realistic challenging AI. I HOPE this version brings that to life and is not another disappointment. Can't figure why they are releasing for PS3 and not PS4 however? Anyone at Codemasters got the answer to that?
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