Please Nerf the Assists - Assists Users Exploiting Setups

[lolschrauber 2]

cheech219360 said:

lolschrauber said:

cheech219360 said:

BERTEL said:

yeah this is definitely true.. i do time trials a lot.. for example.. drive 15 laps on Spa best 1.44.688.  then only 3 laps with ABS low and TC medium ..  Bamm.. won almost 2 full seconds.  (using wheel). i think every track  top 10 TT times are assisted now.  

just been testing assist users setups. there is no way of keeping up with them with there setup undriveble without assist. this needs fixing.

Yep, it has always been like that. Make ultra fast setups that are undriveable and just turn on assists to nulify the terrible driveability. Bingo! Welcome to the top!

if i was todo this i'd smash the leaderboads howeve i want to stay assist free. dont see why i should use assisted buggy setups CM sould sort it out.

tbh my favorite saying with these games is "I don't use assists. just traction control on medium"

[RodrigoMendes 7]

Assists HAVE to be faster than. It's a simulator game, not in the same level like Assetto Corsa or rFactor, but they're trying to simulate. So assists NEED to be faster. A TC control mapped to performance is ALWAYS more faster than manual control. Same for ABS.

ps.: I use a wheel and no assists.

[cheech219360 0]

RodrigoMendes said:

Assists HAVE to be faster than. It's a simulator game, not in the same level like Assetto Corsa or rFactor, but they're trying to simulate. So assists NEED to be faster. A TC control mapped to performance is ALWAYS more faster than manual control. Same for ABS.

ps.: I use a wheel and no assists. so do i mate 

[RodrigoMendes 7]

cheech219360 said:

RodrigoMendes said:

Assists HAVE to be faster than. It's a simulator game, not in the same level like Assetto Corsa or rFactor, but they're trying to simulate. So assists NEED to be faster. A TC control mapped to performance is ALWAYS more faster than manual control. Same for ABS.

ps.: I use a wheel and no assists. so do i mate 

So what we can do? It's sucks, but it is the whay that should be.

The fix for it is finding people that play without assists in forums around the world. That's what I will do when I want to play online.

[lolschrauber 2]

RodrigoMendes said:

cheech219360 said:

RodrigoMendes said:

Assists HAVE to be faster than. It's a simulator game, not in the same level like Assetto Corsa or rFactor, but they're trying to simulate. So assists NEED to be faster. A TC control mapped to performance is ALWAYS more faster than manual control. Same for ABS.

ps.: I use a wheel and no assists. so do i mate 

So what we can do? It's sucks, but it is the whay that should be.

The fix for it is finding people that play without assists in forums around the world. That's what I will do when I want to play online.

The problem is that it's hard to find players to play with on an even playing field. Most lobbies obviously don't ban assists. Some super serious leagues do, but that's not what everyone is looking for. Plenty of people leave instantly when they notice that assists are banned. It's not just "oh go to a forum and you'll find enough people" as they also should be from around your region for better connection, which limits it even more.

The bigger point is that while assists should make you faster in real life, high skill should be rewarded in a video game, which doesn't happen here.

Wanna be competitive? Best use pit assist, medium TC and racing line. Also, definitely use T-Cam. < That's just a stupid thought already, don't make people do that.

[Rinehart27 25]

I disagree that the ABS assist is an advantage. You can definitely brake later and trail brake with more control. Basically you can feel more what the cars doing, so you can be faster. But its very difficult to master. No so sure about the TC though. I think medium is kinda the best balance. And anyway, I bet that is a closer setting to RL F1 than no TC assist, by the time those boffins have tinkered away with the mapping...

[ArthurRay 0]

So, even though I don't play online and only use time trials to practice driving without assists, you want to nerf me and make it hard for me to play in career mode?  Why make the game unplayable for those of us who are new and need the help?

[NickDahy 0]

TabascoXL said:

You are debating against a whole group of people, the ones that use assists, like myself, and say that the game should not be as rewarding for us as it is for you, driving with the assists off should be a challenge, thats the whole point, it should naturally be hard to play the game with assists turned off.

You are missing the point.  You do not turn them off for difficulty, you turn them off because there are no assists in real life and you want to drive realistically.   The assists should not gain you time, they should just help you keep the car on the track so you can improve as a driver.  Then once you can keep it on the track, you should be able to turn them off and go faster like what happens on all other games.

If the real cars actually had assists then I would be happy with them being on like real life.  Say with GT3 cars, I understand there is ABS and Traction Control in real life so yes you should be faster with them in that case.  F1 does not have stuff like that. 

Now I can see why Senna got so frustrated when driving against the Williams with Active Suspension! :persevere:

[Operator1 4]

I'm not convinced any in-game assists should, in principle, be built to intentionally slow players down. Assists should help players who struggle without assists to stay on-track and keep up with the pack so they're less of a danger to other drivers around them - and so they can enjoy & progress in the game where they otherwise might not without assists. If assists slowed players down, it would defeat the purpose of assists.

Choosing to optionally deactivate/disable assists can be a way of increasing the level of challenge/difficulty for players who want it, but I don't think deactivating/disabling assists should provide any guarantee of faster laps. It's up to the driver to make the most of their choice to disable assists, whether it's by changing their driving technique, changing their tuning setup, changing their controller/wheel settings, practicing more, and/or any combination of those. The reward for driving well without assists is personal satisfaction and maybe some in-game achievements/trophies.

Deactivating/disabling assists is also no guarantee of authenticity/realism. For all we know, maybe the in-game effects of having assists enabled cause in-game cars to actually feel more like their real-world counterparts feel to drive. I'm not saying all the same in-game assists are present in all real-world cars; I'm saying in-game assists are nothing but check-boxes that toggle certain parts of the game's programming on & off, and there's no assurance the programming accurately reflects reality either way.

I think a better option than separate leaderboards would be more leaderboard filters. Players could get as granular as they want when comparing their times to other players who use the same options if players could filter on each leaderboard column/field (ABS, TCS, custom tuning setup versus default tuning setup, wheel versus gamepad, etc. - and every possible combination of each).

I also believe all players are on a level playing field with each other when all of the same in-game options are available to all players without requiring any illegitimate exploits or hacks. If ticking an in-game check-box on or off makes a difference in somebody's lap times, that same check-box is on every player's screen for everyone else to use as well. The fact that some do not select certain check-boxes is their choice, and they have to accept how their choice affects their lap times. It's up to each player to make the most of their chosen game options. If checking a box in a racing game results in me having more fun and/or getting faster laps, why wouldn't I check that box? If checking a box in a racing game results in me having less fun and/or getting slower laps, why would I check that box?

When I hear/read gamers complain about 'overpowered' assists & assist-using 'arcade kids' in racing games, I can't help but be reminded of Call Of Duty snipers who complain about 'no-skill spray-&-pray' SMG players who wouldn't stand a chance against them in a 1v1 snipers-only lobby. QQ. If you pick a harder gun, expect a harder challenge, especially against players who don't use the same harder guns. They didn't make CoD just for snipers.

[stephensmattlee 239]

I do kind of wish it was more like f1 2013, the assists on it slowed you down so much compared to the AI that you had no choice but to master the game without assists to be fast enough  :D

[lolschrauber 2]

stephensmattlee said:

I do kind of wish it was more like f1 2013, the assists on it slowed you down so much compared to the AI that you had no choice but to master the game without assists to be fast enough  :D

People don't like challenge, they just want to be fast for bragging rights.

"I don't use assists, just TC on medium"
"I don't use assists, just racing line"

Every other racing game ever: "I use cockpit cam because it's realistic"
Every other racing game ever when it comes to F1 cars, or F1 game itself: "I use T-Cam because *insert stupid excuse here*"

Heard those sentences way too often.

I love the people who claim that T-Cam is no assist or advantage, yet they absolutely need it to hit the apex. It's really pathetic.

[ImDyingYouIdiot 0]

stephensmattlee said:

I do kind of wish it was more like f1 2013, the assists on it slowed you down so much compared to the AI that you had no choice but to master the game without assists to be fast enough  :D

The assist system in previous years was horrid.

They actually tempered with the car's performance. Meaning you raced effectively not a proper F1 car if you needed assists. While I only used stuff like the racing line in previous years, and even now here and then, I didn't approve in the slightest with those penalties for assist user. After all, as some have already pointed out, some people *have* to use assists, or maybe they simply aren't skilled enough without them, so why should they be punished?

If anything, I could understand those sort of disadvantages in multiplayer, even though there are better solutions like more lobby options etc., but certainly not in the singleplayer. As for time trials, again as some pointed out, separate lists would be an ideal solution.

[lolschrauber 2]

ImDyingYouIdiot said:

some people *have* to use assists, or maybe they simply aren't skilled enough without them, so why should they be punished?

Point taken. Then why should skilled players be punished? This crap is becoming meta. Even good people use assists to be even faster. People rage quit as soon as they see that assists are banned in lobbies. People bragging how much better they are just because of their assists. 

Just yesterday I deleted someone from my friends because he was annoying the hell out of me. "Hurr durr I'm 1.5 seconds faster than you" - yeah, with medium TC and ABS (racing line as well, obviously) to make it easy for him to play a ridiculously undriveable setup. Such amazing skill!

[Operator1 4]

lolschrauber said:
...why should skilled players be punished?...

Choosing to deactivate/disable optional assists does not "punish" players - it only provides additional challenge for players who want it. It's supposed to be harder, both by design & by the player's choice. That's not a "punishment" - it's an optional feature. "Harder" does not mean better or more authentic/realistic or "the way it's meant to be played" - it just means "more difficult."

[PJTierney 4,908]

Let's look at what should be the most competitive area of the game at the moment: F1 Esports

In a competitive environment players will use every single advantage they can find to get a better score/time.

If Assists are truly better then the top of the leaderboards should have plenty of assist users present.

https://f1esports.com/leaderboard

(Yes, I am aware there is a score multiplier for disabling assists, but if assists are that much stronger than non-assists as some people have been claiming then it should be possible to overcome this multiplier handicap, should it not?)

[lolschrauber 2]

Operator1 said:

lolschrauber said:
...why should skilled players be punished?...

Choosing to deactivate/disable optional assists does not "punish" players - it only provides additional challenge for players who want it. It's supposed to be harder, both by design & by the player's choice. That's not a "punishment" - it's an optional feature. "Harder" does not mean better or more authentic/realistic or "the way it's meant to be played" - it just means "more difficult."

Making it literally impossible to drive with those meta time trial setups that are used to drive faster than anything you've ever seen has nothing to do with challenge in the slightest. It's punishing.

[lolschrauber 2]

PJTierney said:

Let's look at what should be the most competitive area of the game at the moment: F1 Esports

In a competitive environment players will use every single advantage they can find to get a better score/time.

If Assists are truly better then the top of the leaderboards should have plenty of assist users present.

https://f1esports.com/leaderboard

(Yes, I am aware there is a score multiplier for disabling assists, but if assists are that much stronger than non-assists as some people have been claiming then it should be possible to overcome this multiplier handicap, should it not?)

Are you serious with that last bit? Of course assists are a lot faster. No, they won't overcome that handicap because it's done right.

The score multiplier, as you said, is what keeps it balanced. You're still a lot faster with assists, but that doesn't matter in this scenario because the way the event is treated, it's balanced out. This element of balance doesn't exist in the regular modes that people are playing, which is why people are rightfully complaining.

Honestly this is nothing new. I remember a friend asking if I wanna drive in his league as a reserve driver. Sure, I said and went on to the first race. Had some problems, but I was on P3 with a good pace, it was a pretty easy podium actually.

"Oh it starts raining? Oh all the others are actually using traction control? Oh they're easily 2 seconds faster than you now?" Yay! Fun and balanced!

[FRACTURED 30]

Operator1 said:

lolschrauber said:
...why should skilled players be punished?...

Choosing to deactivate/disable optional assists does not "punish" players - it only provides additional challenge for players who want it. It's supposed to be harder, both by design & by the player's choice. That's not a "punishment" - it's an optional feature. "Harder" does not mean better or more authentic/realistic or "the way it's meant to be played" - it just means "more difficult."

Yes, it punishes no assists racers. Good luck getting clean or full lobbies, you are getting auto spun by anybody with assists on whilst they always end up pointing right direction - if you keep assists on...Or half the grid drops immediately because they can't face their natural unassisted pace if you have assists off.

It's not necessarily more difficult either. It just means you use your brain and all the range of travel of your RT/R2/Accelerator. With TCS people just treat accelerator as an on off button. ABS on just put the pressure at 100 and brake 25, or 50m later and let the ABS do the rest.
And then wonder why the guy in front keeps good pace but appears to be brake testing you every braking zone..."oh yeah he is running no assists so can't brake so late. I'll just edge him off track here with a well placed side swipe, at the end of the day he gets the penalty anyways and I can just drive away, not really knowing the track but able to follow a green or red line."

[marsal79 0]

inthink we need to wait 8 weks longer.. non assist drivers (like me) will become faster and faster.. assist driver cant improve that much!

[CompLex1986 18]

Also, how do you want controller users to keep up with wheel users if you want to punish assist players?

[Operator1 4]

FRACTURED said:
Yes, it punishes no assists racers. Good luck getting clean or full lobbies, you are getting auto spun by anybody with assists on whilst they always end up pointing right direction...

Disallowing/disabling assists in lobbies does not guarantee clean racing.

If you're not using assists and you get hit by someone who is also not using any assists, you would spin the same way as you would if you get hit by someone who is using assists.

How would anybody know whether or not anybody else in a lobby or on a leaderboard is using any assists if the game did not provide any on-screen assist indicators and if players didn't admit/volunteer that information themselves? If nobody could tell, would anyone care?

[patronas 14]

I think assists vs non assists should be totally equal if anything assist should make u a bit faster driving with out assists shouldent be just about having ur name on top of a leader board should be for the challenge and satifaction and  like said in previouse post look at the top times on the event leaderboard all non assist users at the top so if it  

[lolschrauber 2]

Operator1 said:

FRACTURED said:
Yes, it punishes no assists racers. Good luck getting clean or full lobbies, you are getting auto spun by anybody with assists on whilst they always end up pointing right direction...

Disallowing/disabling assists in lobbies does not guarantee clean racing.

If you're not using assists and you get hit by someone who is also not using any assists, you would spin the same way as you would if you get hit by someone who is using assists.

How would anybody know whether or not anybody else in a lobby or on a leaderboard is using any assists if the game did not provide any on-screen assist indicators and if players didn't admit/volunteer that information themselves? If nobody could tell, would anyone care?

Assist users can be more reckless and many of them are.

[FRACTURED 30]

Operator1 said:

Disallowing/disabling assists in lobbies does not guarantee clean racing.

NOPE, BUT IT DOES A PRETTY GOOD JOB. HAVE YOU COME ACROSS MANY NO ASSISTS GRIEFERS??? NO ASSISTS DRIVERS, ON THE WHOLE, ARE CLEANER BECAUSE THEY KNOW CONTACT CAN MESS THEM UP AND THEY ARE DRIVING THE TRACK AND NOT THE GREEN LINE.

DISABLING AUTO BRAKING DEFINITELY GUARANTEES LESS ACCIDENTS  B)


If you're not using assists and you get hit by someone who is also not using any assists, you would spin the same way as you would if you get hit by someone who is using assists.

YOU WILL BOTH BE AWARE THAT TOUCHING WILL LIKELY LEAD TO A CRASH SO YOU'LL ALLOW SPACE FOR EACH OTHER OR SOMEONE WILL BE REMOVED FROM THE LOBBY. IF YOU DO CONTACT, BOTH CARS ARE AFFECTED. ASSISTED CAR REACTS COMPLETELY DIFFERENTLY. PENALTIES TEND TO BE ASSESSED AGAINST THE UNASSISTED DRIVER EVEN IF HE DIDNT INSTIGATE CONTACT.


How would anybody know whether or not anybody else in a lobby or on a leaderboard is using any assists if the game did not provide any on-screen assist indicators and if players didn't admit/volunteer that information themselves? If nobody could tell, would anyone care?

YOU CAN TELL IN THE WAY THEY CANT DRIVE A TRACK BUT CAN DRIVE TO THE RACE LINE...USUALLY BECAUSE THEY ARE GOING INTO THE BACK OF YOU UNDER BRAKING BECAUSE UNFORTUNATELY THE LINE CANT ACCOUNT FOR THE FACT THE BRAKING NEEDS ADJUSTED TO ACCOUNT FOR THE EXTRA TOW AND THE FACT THERE IS A FREAKING CAR IN FRONT.

Most of the guys who I know use assists, that I race with, it's fine because they know the issues in the game. So they'll be clean...but that does not happen in random online lobbies. 

On Topic. 

At the start it used to ask what your level was or would pull that based on previous games. If you select Amateur it should Have all assists on, Intermediate Auto with braking only DRL but TCS/ABS on, advanced TCS med, no DRL no ABS gears manual and suggested, Expert turn them all off obviously.

If you use assists you should be allowed to race in quick race modes and custom lobbies where assists allowed is specified.

In career limit the top teams to those who don't need the assists that are banned IRL.

But default for online racing should be Assists off and a toggle is flicked to Allow a certain level of assisted users in. 

[FRACTURED 30]

CompLex1986 said:

Also, how do you want controller users to keep up with wheel users if you want to punish assist players?

There are still built in assists to help. Many many racers do so unassisted on pad. It's simple after some trying but who wants to try when it's easier to just run all the assists and turn the difficulty down until we win.