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2017 Versace Italian Grand Prix

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Can anybody actually explain how Ricciardo starts behind Hulkenberg and Sainz despite qualifying third?
https://twitter.com/RacingLines/status/904081707732787200

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I have no idea. The whole process of applying grid penalties is stupid. You think they'd apply the penalties so each driver serves the full amount they need, but they don't. They do it based on whoever is first on track in practice sessions. It makes zero sense. So that might have something to do with it, but I still don't get why that means Ricciardo is 3 places behind Verstappen, despite being behind him on track.

The whole system needs totally re-working. No one likes these penalties, it takes the fun out of the racing seeing good drivers at the back through no fault of their own. And next year they somehow need to last the whole season on 3 power units, despite there being more races. It's not gonna happen, every single driver will take a penalty, I'm sure.

I don't know what the solution is. I don't think taking constructors points away is the thing to do. I think they should simply up the amount of power units they can use.

I know it goes against the whole philosophy of them saving money on the power units, but F1 is an expensive sport anyway, they spend so much on other stuff. I reckon just up the number to 5 or 6, and hopefully they won't have to serve the penalties as often.

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Going back to the F2 briefly, it turns out that Ghiotto has just been given a 5 second time penalty for cutting the chicane, so Fuoco wins. Why this decision took nearly 5 hours to make, I have no idea.

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Hughesy said:
Reub09 said:
What in the name of god was De Vries doing in the GP2 feature race, completely veered over on Leclerc and Leclerc hit the wall and finished last -_- 
It wasn't De Vries fault. Leclerc hit De Vries left rear tyre with his front wing, which gave De Vries a puncture, which then caused him to veer into Leclerc.

Charles can moan all he wants, but he caused it. And I'm glad he did, considering that Rowland - the only person close to Leclerc - went out thanks to his team not putting his wheel on correctly.

There's a vid on YT, check between 10 and 12 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW0QsYTRhRA
You're kidding me right? Did you actually watch the video you linked, De Vries swipes right across the track into Leclerc, Leclerc didn't hit him before that.
Well that's a little uncalled for. Why would I link a video if I hadn't watched it? I know you got new glasses a while back, but maybe you should get your eyes tested again Hughesy ;)

What I wish we had is onboard video from De Vries car, cos to me if you watch it in slowmo it looks like he's counter steering rather than steering towards Leclerc, but without onboard it's too hard to say for sure.
Awkward...

"De Vries also collected a penalty after the stewards judged him to have caused a collision with Leclerc out of the first chicane on the final lap: the Dutchman, who didn’t finish the race due to the puncture he collected in the collision, was given a drive through penalty, which was converted into a 20 seconds time penalty"

So yea nothing wrong with my eyes bud, you're the one having issues with your eyes as you told me and having to do eye exercises.  ;)

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MBKF1 said:
I have no idea. The whole process of applying grid penalties is stupid. You think they'd apply the penalties so each driver serves the full amount they need, but they don't. They do it based on whoever is first on track in practice sessions. It makes zero sense. So that might have something to do with it, but I still don't get why that means Ricciardo is 3 places behind Verstappen, despite being behind him on track.

The whole system needs totally re-working. No one likes these penalties, it takes the fun out of the racing seeing good drivers at the back through no fault of their own. And next year they somehow need to last the whole season on 3 power units, despite there being more races. It's not gonna happen, every single driver will take a penalty, I'm sure.

I don't know what the solution is. I don't think taking constructors points away is the thing to do. I think they should simply up the amount of power units they can use.

I know it goes against the whole philosophy of them saving money on the power units, but F1 is an expensive sport anyway, they spend so much on other stuff. I reckon just up the number to 5 or 6, and hopefully they won't have to serve the penalties as often.
I think 5 is a perfectly reasonable number. Tbh I think we need new engine rules altogether, these ones were badly written, are needlessly expensive, overly complicated and hopelessly unpopular. But, we have what we have and need a way to fix it. Realistically, 5 is (roughly) 4 races per part which is a realistic target.

Saying that, this is race 13 so they should just be getting to the fourth set of bits now, so maybe even 5 isn't enough.

Slight side note, but Hamilton and Grosjean are the only 2 drivers out of the 20 to start where they qualified. And even then, you could argue whether Grosjean did actually qualify at all as he was over 107%.

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I don't get why Grosjean is still 20th, despite everybody above him getting penalties and all that. Unless he starts from the pits.

As for Ricciardo starting behind Sainz and Hulk, I'm going to guess that they'll take the penalty on a theoretical grid of unlimited entries, meaning this:

Verstappen - 2nd - 20 grid penalties -> 22nd.
Ricciardo - 3rd - 25 GP ->28th.
Hulkenberg - 12th - 10 GP -> 22nd.
Alonso - 13th - 35 GP -> 48th.
Sainz - 15th - 10 GP -> 25th.
Palmer - 17th - 15 GP - 32nd.

And they do that starting from the driver who qualified the lowest on-track, which is why Hulkenberg (22nd) starts behind Verstappen (also 22nd).

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The whole penalty system is such a mess isn't it, if hardcore fans can't always work it out, casual fans have no chance. They really need to do something about it next season.

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Jiggy said:
I don't get why Grosjean is still 20th, despite everybody above him getting penalties and all that. Unless he starts from the pits.

As for Ricciardo starting behind Sainz and Hulk, I'm going to guess that they'll take the penalty on a theoretical grid of unlimited entries, meaning this:

Verstappen - 2nd - 20 grid penalties -> 22nd.
Ricciardo - 3rd - 25 GP ->28th.
Hulkenberg - 12th - 10 GP -> 22nd.
Alonso - 13th - 35 GP -> 48th.
Sainz - 15th - 10 GP -> 25th.
Palmer - 17th - 15 GP - 32nd.

And they do that starting from the driver who qualified the lowest on-track, which is why Hulkenberg (22nd) starts behind Verstappen (also 22nd).
Grosjean starts last because he had to apply to the stewards to start the race as he was over the 107% rule. That's the only one I properly understand.

I think it goes first off who informed the stewards of their intention (so that should be Renault) and then off who left the pits first in FP1.

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Hughesy said:
Hughesy said:
Reub09 said:
What in the name of god was De Vries doing in the GP2 feature race, completely veered over on Leclerc and Leclerc hit the wall and finished last -_- 
It wasn't De Vries fault. Leclerc hit De Vries left rear tyre with his front wing, which gave De Vries a puncture, which then caused him to veer into Leclerc.

Charles can moan all he wants, but he caused it. And I'm glad he did, considering that Rowland - the only person close to Leclerc - went out thanks to his team not putting his wheel on correctly.

There's a vid on YT, check between 10 and 12 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW0QsYTRhRA
You're kidding me right? Did you actually watch the video you linked, De Vries swipes right across the track into Leclerc, Leclerc didn't hit him before that.
Well that's a little uncalled for. Why would I link a video if I hadn't watched it? I know you got new glasses a while back, but maybe you should get your eyes tested again Hughesy ;)

What I wish we had is onboard video from De Vries car, cos to me if you watch it in slowmo it looks like he's counter steering rather than steering towards Leclerc, but without onboard it's too hard to say for sure.
Awkward...

"De Vries also collected a penalty after the stewards judged him to have caused a collision with Leclerc out of the first chicane on the final lap: the Dutchman, who didn’t finish the race due to the puncture he collected in the collision, was given a drive through penalty, which was converted into a 20 seconds time penalty"

So yea nothing wrong with my eyes bud, you're the one having issues with your eyes as you told me and having to do eye exercises.  ;)
How is that awkward? Sure, De Vries put Leclerc into the barrier, but I still don't think he did it on purpose. As Matt said, it looks like he's struggling for traction on the exit of the corner and Leclerc was in the wrong place unfortunately.

So I still think you are wrong to say he swiped right across into him.

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Grid penalty for Vandoorne now. Sky just said McLaren will officially axe Honda tomorrow and keep Alonso.

Also, 5 place gearbox penalty for Perez drops him from 9th to 10th on the grid, because F1.

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Hughesy said:
Hughesy said:
Reub09 said:
What in the name of god was De Vries doing in the GP2 feature race, completely veered over on Leclerc and Leclerc hit the wall and finished last -_- 
It wasn't De Vries fault. Leclerc hit De Vries left rear tyre with his front wing, which gave De Vries a puncture, which then caused him to veer into Leclerc.

Charles can moan all he wants, but he caused it. And I'm glad he did, considering that Rowland - the only person close to Leclerc - went out thanks to his team not putting his wheel on correctly.

There's a vid on YT, check between 10 and 12 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW0QsYTRhRA
You're kidding me right? Did you actually watch the video you linked, De Vries swipes right across the track into Leclerc, Leclerc didn't hit him before that.
Well that's a little uncalled for. Why would I link a video if I hadn't watched it? I know you got new glasses a while back, but maybe you should get your eyes tested again Hughesy ;)

What I wish we had is onboard video from De Vries car, cos to me if you watch it in slowmo it looks like he's counter steering rather than steering towards Leclerc, but without onboard it's too hard to say for sure.
Awkward...

"De Vries also collected a penalty after the stewards judged him to have caused a collision with Leclerc out of the first chicane on the final lap: the Dutchman, who didn’t finish the race due to the puncture he collected in the collision, was given a drive through penalty, which was converted into a 20 seconds time penalty"

So yea nothing wrong with my eyes bud, you're the one having issues with your eyes as you told me and having to do eye exercises.  ;)
How is that awkward? Sure, De Vries put Leclerc into the barrier, but I still don't think he did it on purpose. As Matt said, it looks like he's struggling for traction on the exit of the corner and Leclerc was in the wrong place unfortunately.

So I still think you are wrong to say he swiped right across into him.
Exaclty, so I was right. If you look at the onboard of the car behind you can clearly see him swipe across him. If that wasn't the case he wouldn't have been given a penalty, so there's nothing wrong with my eyes as you said. You said Leclerc hit him and gave him a puncture, which then caused him to veer into Leclerc, but they didn't happen, the puncture was caused from him swiping into Leclerc. If Leclerc hit him and caused the puncture, he'd be the one to get a penalty 
 
@fIsince08 Still seems odd to me, it's not like the Renault engine is a lot more powerful or reliable than Honda. Honda are rubbish, but McLaren get a lot from being with them. The only engine I'd actually ditch Honda for is Mercedes, but obviously they don't want to supply them.

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Hughesy said:
Hughesy said:
Hughesy said:
Reub09 said:
What in the name of god was De Vries doing in the GP2 feature race, completely veered over on Leclerc and Leclerc hit the wall and finished last -_- 
It wasn't De Vries fault. Leclerc hit De Vries left rear tyre with his front wing, which gave De Vries a puncture, which then caused him to veer into Leclerc.

Charles can moan all he wants, but he caused it. And I'm glad he did, considering that Rowland - the only person close to Leclerc - went out thanks to his team not putting his wheel on correctly.

There's a vid on YT, check between 10 and 12 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW0QsYTRhRA
You're kidding me right? Did you actually watch the video you linked, De Vries swipes right across the track into Leclerc, Leclerc didn't hit him before that.
Well that's a little uncalled for. Why would I link a video if I hadn't watched it? I know you got new glasses a while back, but maybe you should get your eyes tested again Hughesy ;)

What I wish we had is onboard video from De Vries car, cos to me if you watch it in slowmo it looks like he's counter steering rather than steering towards Leclerc, but without onboard it's too hard to say for sure.
Awkward...

"De Vries also collected a penalty after the stewards judged him to have caused a collision with Leclerc out of the first chicane on the final lap: the Dutchman, who didn’t finish the race due to the puncture he collected in the collision, was given a drive through penalty, which was converted into a 20 seconds time penalty"

So yea nothing wrong with my eyes bud, you're the one having issues with your eyes as you told me and having to do eye exercises.  ;)
How is that awkward? Sure, De Vries put Leclerc into the barrier, but I still don't think he did it on purpose. As Matt said, it looks like he's struggling for traction on the exit of the corner and Leclerc was in the wrong place unfortunately.

So I still think you are wrong to say he swiped right across into him.
Exaclty, so I was right. If you look at the onboard of the car behind you can clearly see him swipe across him. If that wasn't the case he wouldn't have been given a penalty, so there's nothing wrong with my eyes as you said. You said Leclerc hit him and gave him a puncture, which then caused him to veer into Leclerc, but they didn't happen, the puncture was caused from him swiping into Leclerc. If Leclerc hit him and caused the puncture, he'd be the one to get a penalty 
 
@fIsince08 Still seems odd to me, it's not like the Renault engine is a lot more powerful or reliable than Honda. Honda are rubbish, but McLaren get a lot from being with them. The only engine I'd actually ditch Honda for is Mercedes, but obviously they don't want to supply them.
Not even gonna bother cos this'll just end up with us arguing and falling out. You can't possibly think De Vries hit him on purpose though?

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Driver of the day for me is Ricciardo, shame the race wasn't a few laps long so we could see him race Vettel. Hamilton and Bottas faultless today.

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Reub09 said:
Camera man has good taste :P keeps zooming in on Strolls sister haha
I have no problems with this.

Merc breezed it, bloomin heck. That was a brilliant shot of Hamilton and Bottas in formation at the end as well.

Not the most exciting race in history, but they can't all be exciting. Shame for Verstappen once again, he has just zero luck this year. Decent effort from Ocon and Stroll, they couldn't have done much better given their equipment.

And yep, McLaren and Honda are absolutely no longer after today. Another double retirement. I honestly believe that with Renault power, McLaren won't win a championship for another 10 years anyway.

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Also, I was right about Versace and Lewis Hamilton at this Grand Prix!

https://www.instagram.com/p/BYk62PbFIdi/?hl=en&taken-by=donatella_versace

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Lance strolling everyone but Lewis. Hats off to both of them, and Ocon. Lol at Ferrari, even though they will come back stronger.
lmao, no need to be so modest Dan. Singapore may be a bump in the road but other than that Hamilton is gliding to his 4th world title. 

Anyway the races at Monza are never good these days. Luckily the podium makes up for it.

My main takeaway from the race and the trend I've seen this season is Stroll's race craft is very poor. In terms of pure speed he's now shown on a few occasions this season that he has raw potential, but he's way too passive in wheel to wheel combat. Meanwhile Ricciardo is extraordinary in this department, but we already knew that.

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Might be on purpose, he was hyper aggressive in F3 and is probably looking to avoid trouble in his rookie season.

Max at the other hand ruined his own race twice in three races as I feel like the incident with Massa could've been avoided by backing off. Shame too, because he was looking at a good comeback result, looking at where Ricciardo ended up, maybe a podium even too. Overall it's clear he's frustrated and it's a season to forget.

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VetteIfan said:
Lance strolling everyone but Lewis. Hats off to both of them, and Ocon. Lol at Ferrari, even though they will come back stronger.
lmao, no need to be so modest Dan. Singapore may be a bump in the road but other than that Hamilton is gliding to his 4th world title. 

You said the same thing post Silverstone. Then Ferrari dominated in Hungary and had the better race car in Belgium. Monza was always going to favour Mercedes, so I don't see how Lewis is gliding to his 4th world title here, but I doubt you believe that yourself.

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You said the same thing post Silverstone. Then Ferrari dominated in Hungary and had the better race car in Belgium. Monza was always going to favour Mercedes, so I don't see how Lewis is gliding to his 4th world title here, but I doubt you believe that yourself.
So Ferrari won on the track hand built for their car, the only race they won all summer. You can't expect the title battle to go to the wire based on that

Having the potential slightly better race car isn't worth much in 2017 when the fastest qualifying car is unpassable and usually on a one stop strategy. Ferrari have proven that a few times in 2017. 

I believe what I see in front of me. And that is that Ferrari have won one race since Monaco, they're the second fastest qualifying car in most instances, they can't overtake a Mercedes' in a straight fight and after Singapore they have no favourable tracks coming up. All they can rely on now is bad luck striking Hamilton. 

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