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Operator1 said:

Juice29 said:
The wonderful Empty Box talks about why Project Cars may be a disappointment to some of you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eD7o_f7s0Y

LOL. Personally, I have yet to see an Empty Box video that I liked or agreed with. Even if he may be a somewhat informed & experienced sim racer, I find him to be an annoying speaker/presenter in his videos ...& full of feces. :)

The only pre-release "hype" (if it could even be called such) that I saw for Project CARS was simple user-created content, like YouTube videos (including ones good ol' @Hughesy has shared here). It's not like Slighly Mad Studios ever aired Super Bowl commercials with fireworks & bikini models & heavily doctored game footage that bore no resemblance to the actual game.

I don't recall any of the user-created pre-launch videos I saw ever hyping up wild claims about all the unbelievably amazing things in the game. Most of the videos I saw had little or no speech ("hype") at all - only game-play footage.

The videos' contents - the game's actual game-play, available features, visuals, & audio - spoke for themselves. No hype necessary. Nobody had to "sell" me on Project CARS because it sold itself when I saw it in action. (...That's a lesson other game companies could learn a lot from.)

Fundamentally, the core features & game-play offered by Project CARS are what make it a solid motorsport experience. It has a lot of things that fans of other motorsport-related games & sims have long been asking for - things like: qualifying, night racing, weather, pit stops, long real-world track list, detailed tuning, detailed cockpits, numerous driving camera perspectives, extensive customization of game config settings, no grinding/unlocking, etc.

I've been thoroughly enjoying the game so far. It's not "perfect" & it still has some technical issues (nothing that has rendered the game dysfunctionally unplayable for me) that will reportedly be patched, but it's been more than enough to hold my attention & keep me going back for more.

Don't know about most of what you say. Opinions on forums tend to be quite polarised on this game, either it is lacking or its the greatest thing since sliced bread. I think the guy is right. I get the impression there are a lot of people with VIs out there who are pushing the game like mad on various forums, so you need to be careful who to believe.

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Operator1 said:

Platy said:
You can't really call the mess they have in game right now a "pit stop"...

LOL. Very true. The pit stop system needs work.

Platy said:
...the game doesn't bring many new things to the table...

Indeed, it doesn't deliver many things that we haven't already seen in other games, but it does combine many of the separate things we've seen scattered across different games into one package.

That's one of the things I like most about the game as well. It6's kimnjd of like Grid Autosport except with  better graphics and a weather system that Grid doesn't have along with a pretty effective day/night transition as well which makes the game look and feel even moer spectacular. As I've done midnight races early evening races where the sun is low in the sky along with standard daylight races and it's all very spectacular and gorgeous looking.

I never expected it to really contain anything brand new in it because as you said it's all been done once or twice before at some stage but this game has put it all together and not many people can say they've done or even attempted it before P cars, which for me is what works in P cars favour. Have they got it all working perfectly? No. But at least they're brave enough to give it a try and in time hopefully they will get things better.

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dirt3joe said:
Don't know about most of what you say. Opinions on forums tend to be quite polarised on this game, either it is lacking or its the greatest thing since sliced bread. I think the guy is right. I get the impression there are a lot of people with VIs out there who are pushing the game like mad on various forums, so you need to be careful who to believe.

Understandable. I have no vested interest in getting others to buy Project CARS. I was not an early backer/investor. I'm not a Slightly Mad Studios employee or affiliate. I don't collect any funds from any monetized YouTube videos. My only hands-on experience with the game has been after its retail launch. I'm not out to convince anyone that Project CARS is the answer to all their prayers. I'm simply saying that I've been enjoying it - and considering the troubles that others have tolerated (& defended) from other games, much of the criticism towards Project CARS seems hypocritically unfounded.

Of course, every gamer will have their own opinions & preferences. For me, it's simply a matter of: does it have features I want? ...and is it actually functional (not defectively unplayable)?

The feature list, car list, & track list are all easily-accessible public information for anyone to decide whether or not it sounds like something that would interest them. All that, combined with ample game-play footage, was enough to convince me that it was well worth trying. In the words of Mark Ronson & Bruno Mars: "Don't believe me, just watch." ;)

A lot of it is a matter of individual experience & expectation. If you're coming from iRacing or RFactor & you're hoping for an "even more hardcore simulator," then Project CARS may not live up to your expectations. If you're coming from Forza, Gran Turismo, and/or GRID games & you're hoping for a more authentic-feeling motorsport vibe, then Project CARS may seem impressive. If you're coming from Mario Kart, Burnout, and/or Midnight Club & you're hoping for an arcadey bash-fest where you can "pimp your ride," then Project CARS may seem dull & tiresome.

Project CARS has some issues that Slightly Mad Studios has publicly acknowledged & committed to address. I don't think it has a higher number or greater severity of technical problems than any other recent games have had at launch, so it's no worse off than releases by other long-standing game developers. In my experience so far, none of the game's technical issues have been show-stoppers that bring the entire game to a grinding halt. What's important to me is that its issues don't hinder my ability to continue playing the game, and that the developers have acknowledged the issues & committed to fixing them (a commitment they've so far delivered on with post-launch patching).

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Operator1 said:

dirt3joe said:
Don't know about most of what you say. Opinions on forums tend to be quite polarised on this game, either it is lacking or its the greatest thing since sliced bread. I think the guy is right. I get the impression there are a lot of people with VIs out there who are pushing the game like mad on various forums, so you need to be careful who to believe.

Understandable. I have no vested interest in getting others to buy Project CARS. I was not an early backer/investor. I'm not a Slightly Mad Studios employee or affiliate. I don't collect any funds from any monetized YouTube videos. My only hands-on experience with the game has been after its retail launch. I'm not out to convince anyone that Project CARS is the answer to all their prayers. I'm simply saying that I've been enjoying it - and considering the troubles that others have tolerated (& defended) from other games, much of the criticism towards Project CARS seems hypocritically unfounded.

Of course, every gamer will have their own opinions & preferences. For me, it's simply a matter of: does it have features I want? ...and is it actually functional (not defectively unplayable)?

The feature list, car list, & track list are all easily-accessible public information for anyone to decide whether or not it sounds like something that would interest them. All that, combined with ample game-play footage, was enough to convince me that it was well worth trying. In the words of Mark Ronson & Bruno Mars: "Don't believe me, just watch." ;)

A lot of it is a matter of individual experience & expectation. If you're coming from iRacing or RFactor & you're hoping for an "even more hardcore simulator," then Project CARS may not live up to your expectations. If you're coming from Forza, Gran Turismo, and/or GRID games & you're hoping for a more authentic-feeling motorsport vibe, then Project CARS may seem impressive. If you're coming from Mario Kart, Burnout, and/or Midnight Club & you're hoping for an arcadey bash-fest where you can "pimp your ride," then Project CARS may seem dull & tiresome.

Project CARS has some issues that Slightly Mad Studios has publicly acknowledged & committed to address. I don't think it has a higher number or greater severity of technical problems than any other recent games have had at launch, so it's no worse off than releases by other long-standing game developers. In my experience so far, none of the game's technical issues have been show-stoppers that bring the entire game to a grinding halt. What's important to me is that its issues don't hinder my ability to continue playing the game, and that the developers have acknowledged the issues & committed to fixing them (a commitment they've so far delivered on with post-launch patching).

I think regarding the relative positioning of PCars and other "sims" yep that's one issue.

Developers releasing poor quality games is clearly a major issue for you. I think the difference between SMS and CM is CM has years of product releases under its belt for the world to judge it on. With SMS it's a different story. It's easy  to appear wonderful if you have no history, and its not so easy to be responsive if you have run out of cash. As can be seen from the forums, people get as mad over the bugs there as they do for the CM ones. And IMO there have been some pretty unpleasant bugs, surely issues with controllers should never have got past the testing stage on consoles. I think it's too early to judge SMS performance on what they have done so far in terms of quality/maintenance/additions. That's something only time will tell. My mind will remain open, but my gut feeling is, as I've discussed with Hughsey before, they are subject to the same fundaental contraints everyone is, despite the superficially different funding model.

Edit : As a final point I'd say I want Pcars to succeed. I play racing games, and the more available the better.

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dirt3joe said:
...Developers releasing poor quality games is clearly a major issue for you...

You betcha it is. :)

dirt3joe said:
...I think the difference between SMS and CM is CM has years of product releases under its belt for the world to judge it on. With SMS it's a different story. It's easy  to appear wonderful if you have no history...

SMS has history - they've developed a few racing games on multiple platforms.

I don't want to get into any unpleasant studio-vs-studio debates, but I think the difference between SMS & CM is that SMS seems to be attempting to deliver what enthusiasts want & raise the bar, while CM games seem to be barely keeping up with (or even lagging behind) current trends & standards. Despite all of CM's experience, they don't seem to be learning much from their mistakes or responding better to customer feedback.

dirt3joe said:
...I think it's too early to judge SMS performance on what they have done so far in terms of quality/maintenance/additions. That's something only time will tell...

Indeed, it's still early days for Project CARS. The retail game has only been publicly available for 3 weeks. I think it's off to a relatively good start compared to other games. Nobody should believe the "hype," but the criticisms of Project CARS deserve at least an equal amount skepticism as the praise.

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I think it would be better to compare CM's Dirt Rally with Project Cars as they both come from the same funding scheme and neither are entirely restricted by licencing.

CM definitely listened to the community when producing Dirt Rally, so criticisms of their customer feedback and learning from their mistakes are a bit unfounded in this respect. It has taken them a while to do though.

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Platy said:
I think it would be better to compare CM's Dirt Rally with Project Cars as they both come from the same funding scheme and neither are entirely restricted by licencing.

CM definitely listened to the community when producing Dirt Rally, so criticisms of their customer feedback and learning from their mistakes are a bit unfounded in this respect. It has taken them a while to do though.

Agreed. Although I have some misgivings about DiRT Rally (which I don't care to debate), CM's overall approach to it so far does seem better than some of their other efforts - even if they are late to finally get on-board. ;)

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dirt3joe said:
Operator1 said:

dirt3joe said:
Don't know about most of what you say. Opinions on forums tend to be quite polarised on this game, either it is lacking or its the greatest thing since sliced bread. I think the guy is right. I get the impression there are a lot of people with VIs out there who are pushing the game like mad on various forums, so you need to be careful who to believe.

Understandable. I have no vested interest in getting others to buy Project CARS. I was not an early backer/investor. I'm not a Slightly Mad Studios employee or affiliate. I don't collect any funds from any monetized YouTube videos. My only hands-on experience with the game has been after its retail launch. I'm not out to convince anyone that Project CARS is the answer to all their prayers. I'm simply saying that I've been enjoying it - and considering the troubles that others have tolerated (& defended) from other games, much of the criticism towards Project CARS seems hypocritically unfounded.

Of course, every gamer will have their own opinions & preferences. For me, it's simply a matter of: does it have features I want? ...and is it actually functional (not defectively unplayable)?

The feature list, car list, & track list are all easily-accessible public information for anyone to decide whether or not it sounds like something that would interest them. All that, combined with ample game-play footage, was enough to convince me that it was well worth trying. In the words of Mark Ronson & Bruno Mars: "Don't believe me, just watch." ;)

A lot of it is a matter of individual experience & expectation. If you're coming from iRacing or RFactor & you're hoping for an "even more hardcore simulator," then Project CARS may not live up to your expectations. If you're coming from Forza, Gran Turismo, and/or GRID games & you're hoping for a more authentic-feeling motorsport vibe, then Project CARS may seem impressive. If you're coming from Mario Kart, Burnout, and/or Midnight Club & you're hoping for an arcadey bash-fest where you can "pimp your ride," then Project CARS may seem dull & tiresome.

Project CARS has some issues that Slightly Mad Studios has publicly acknowledged & committed to address. I don't think it has a higher number or greater severity of technical problems than any other recent games have had at launch, so it's no worse off than releases by other long-standing game developers. In my experience so far, none of the game's technical issues have been show-stoppers that bring the entire game to a grinding halt. What's important to me is that its issues don't hinder my ability to continue playing the game, and that the developers have acknowledged the issues & committed to fixing them (a commitment they've so far delivered on with post-launch patching).

I think regarding the relative positioning of PCars and other "sims" yep that's one issue.

Developers releasing poor quality games is clearly a major issue for you. I think the difference between SMS and CM is CM has years of product releases under its belt for the world to judge it on. With SMS it's a different story. It's easy  to appear wonderful if you have no history, and its not so easy to be responsive if you have run out of cash. As can be seen from the forums, people get as mad over the bugs there as they do for the CM ones. And IMO there have been some pretty unpleasant bugs, surely issues with controllers should never have got past the testing stage on consoles. I think it's too early to judge SMS performance on what they have done so far in terms of quality/maintenance/additions. That's something only time will tell. My mind will remain open, but my gut feeling is, as I've discussed with Hughsey before, they are subject to the same fundaental contraints everyone is, despite the superficially different funding model.

Edit : As a final point I'd say I want Pcars to succeed. I play racing games, and the more available the better.
SMS is full of staff who made GTR 1 & 2 which to this day are top notch sims, and obviously the Shift series. They weren't bad but they were badly restricted by EA on what they were allowed to do, plus they got NFS placed in the name which really didn't help. This game is a sim and was made for wheels, game pad was a second thought. Yes a lot of console players use controllers, but it's always going to be better using a wheel. I'm sure it'll get better, but throughout development wheel support has been the main focus.

Thats where this differs to Forza or GT. They're both made with controllers in mind and wheels thought about second which is the wrong way to do it for a racing sim IMO.

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just had my first blast around Bathurst, wow what a track. aussie guy suggested we do it with the time going at x60 so went from day to night a few times over the race, im speechless at what project cars can offer.

also done a new kind of racing tonight, midnight driving line racing with no headlights, what a fecking laugh we all had. all you can see is the racing line when its pitch black and the red light on the back of the formula a car, would not advise in a public lobby with randoms but with mates its a good laugh. just make sure you have the damage turned off as everyone will crash off and into each other. each to there own but personally I loved it.

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Hughesy said:
Goes from defending this game to deleting it :joy: Nice one.
Just the AI. There are too many little bugs that pissed me off and made me quit. The biggest one is the FFB glitch where the FFB inverts at low speeds.

I deleted because with the FFB glitch my patience bottom out very quickly and I can use the room for something else til the patch comes to fix Fanatec issues.

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Hughesy said:
Goes from defending this game to deleting it :joy: Nice one.
Just the AI. There are too many little bugs that pissed me off and made me quit. The biggest one is the FFB glitch where the FFB inverts at low speeds.

I deleted because with the FFB glitch my patience bottom out very quickly and I can use the room for something else til the patch comes to fix Fanatec issues.
Can't say I've ever had that happen with the 4 wheels I've used over the whole course of development 

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Hughesy said:
Hughesy said:
Goes from defending this game to deleting it :joy: Nice one.
Just the AI. There are too many little bugs that pissed me off and made me quit. The biggest one is the FFB glitch where the FFB inverts at low speeds.

I deleted because with the FFB glitch my patience bottom out very quickly and I can use the room for something else til the patch comes to fix Fanatec issues.
Can't say I've ever had that happen with the 4 wheels I've used over the whole course of development 
Im on PS4 and its a problem known to the devs along with the clutch not working on the CSR and countless issues with other fanatec wheels. 

Luckily the CSR had the least issues so the game is still playable. It's just been really hot and I've had very little patience lol.

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Well finally bought this.

Had only about 10 hours worth of play so far, so too early to make too many statements.

I play this on xbone and controller. On the plus side it's a lot of fun. Graphics can be great. It's got some nice cars. On the negative I would say the graphics quality can be variable, with stuttering, frame drops etc. The car roster is a bit on the small side.

Playing with the controller for me is much more difficult than say grid autosport, but is probably comparable to dirt rally. The handling certainly has more "nuances" (for want of a better word) than GA. This might be more compatible with "sim" like racing, whether it is compatible with a good gaming experience is another issue. I think there is a tendency for casual users to pile in and go for the fastest cars, which are quite difficult to control. Something like formula C is much more manageable. TBH the F1 cars (Lotus 98T) don't feel that different to cms F1 2013 to me. 

I guess if I had something I was disappointed with it would be the lack of timing information. For a racer I would have thought it would be pretty much essential, and a thing that is missing from many of the cm titles. Things like being able to snap to the fastest lap of a practice session or race, or to see the lap time for every lap of a race. This may be in there, but I haven't found out how to do it yet.

So overall so far my impression is that it is a good game, but not a great one. I wouldn't recommend it to other console owners unless they were really into virtual racing.

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The Formula A are pretty awful tbh. Haven't tried them on a wheel, but on a controller they're ridiculous. Struggle with understeer when turning then oversteer when touching the accelerator.

I agree with @dirt3joe, good game but not great. Missing a lot of obvious things that bring depth like lap times (can't even see specific sector times when you're in the pits), even a proper telemetry system. They go on about how the tyres are simulated and all this various calculations which means the AI has to run a dumbed down version or we'd only get 2 cars on track, yet I can't look through the telemetry and compare it to other laps.

Good game for console, but nothing special or fantastic about it. Its fun though unless you're up against the AI, or have to make a pit stop, or it starts raining. 

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Platy said:
The Formula A are pretty awful tbh. Haven't tried them on a wheel, but on a controller they're ridiculous. Struggle with understeer when turning then oversteer when touching the accelerator.

I agree with @dirt3joe, good game but not great. Missing a lot of obvious things that bring depth like lap times (can't even see specific sector times when you're in the pits), even a proper telemetry system. They go on about how the tyres are simulated and all this various calculations which means the AI has to run a dumbed down version or we'd only get 2 cars on track, yet I can't look through the telemetry and compare it to other laps.

Good game for console, but nothing special or fantastic about it. Its fun though unless you're up against the AI, or have to make a pit stop, or it starts raining. 
Formula A are pretty much F1 cars AFAIKT. When I played them straight off I found them very hard. There is also a lot of screen judder/camera shake. I can't figure out whether that's because the track is bumpy and it's really like that or it's frame stuttering.

When I moved to formula C these were much more fun to race, but still needed careful attention. On of the differences in Pcars is that understeer is a lot more prevalent IMO.  I can't really remember ever getting heavy understeer in GA. I think this is probably because although understeer is a real possibility in the real world, in the game world people find it quite annoying, its like you jam the controller all the way over and still nothing happens. Oversteering is much easier to deal with by feathering the throttle. My guess is the more arcade type games don't implement understeer so much because of this. I've heard the settings on PCars affect the car perfomance more, and that the default settings are far from the best. So maybe there is some tinkering to be done. That said, your average casual racer doesn't want to spend hours arsing around with car settings and controller settings. To be honest I would prefer the cars to be a be more drivable in the default state, but I'm willing to put the effort in to coax out a bit more performance and fiddle with the setups. My guess is that 75% of console owners wouldn't be though.  

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I'm not going to bother with car setups until they've put out a new patch, I expect the patch will change the characteristics of tyres (heating them up, grip levels, etc) as there's some issues with that right now.


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Platy said:
I'm not going to bother with car setups until they've put out a new patch, I expect the patch will change the characteristics of tyres (heating them up, grip levels, etc) as there's some issues with that right now.


A patch came out for Xb1on May 28th I think - 1.3. I don't know whether I am playing it with the patch or not. The steering for me on controller is challenging, but not impossible by any means.  My guess is that the patch is installed - I will check.

June 5th sees another patch, but I think this is bigger and rolls out across all platforms. My guess is they pushed the XB1 patch forward because they were getting so much grief from people about the handling.

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The 1.3 patch on Xbox was to fix the controller problems, had a few other little fixes too. The bigger patch should hopefully fix the issues with the AI not being affected by tyre wear and rain and such.

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dirt3joe said:
Formula A are pretty much F1 cars AFAIKT. When I played them straight off I found them very hard. There is also a lot of screen judder/camera shake. I can't figure out whether that's because the track is bumpy and it's really like that or it's frame stuttering.
you know you can change that in the display settings? plenty advice about that on the official forum.

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Platy said:
The Formula A are pretty awful tbh. Haven't tried them on a wheel, but on a controller they're ridiculous. Struggle with understeer when turning then oversteer when touching the accelerator
if as you say you are not bothered about setups then why say the cars are ridiculous, a few simple changes and you could solve those problems easily.

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Platy said:
The Formula A are pretty awful tbh. Haven't tried them on a wheel, but on a controller they're ridiculous. Struggle with understeer when turning then oversteer when touching the accelerator. 
if as you say you are not bothered about setups then why say the cars are ridiculous, a few simple changes and you could solve those problems easily.

Because I pretty much only play online and setups don't save at the moment (another issue with the game). I'll stick to all the other cars for now, just avoid Formula A. It might be a problem with Azure though, had trouble with GT3 cars around there and the Formula A car was fine at Monza.

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