Project CARS

[RevolvingPrawn]

SamuelTrautman said:

that's why im strictly plug and play console gamer just cant be bothered with all that work you pc guys have to do all the time.

Yea it can certainly be a pain, but there is upsides to it though :p Like if it turns out I do have a problem then I'll be able to take out whatever the problem part is and chuck in one of the spares I have of most components, send it off for replacement under warranty and carry on gaming. With a console if something goes wrong you gotta send the entire thing away and not have anything to game on till it returns ;)

Plus with a powerful PC gaming on it is just so much better an experience than console, and there's the fact that PC's are a hell of a lot more versatile than consoles :p 

[Hughesy]

RevolvingPrawn said:

SamuelTrautman said:

that's why im strictly plug and play console gamer just cant be bothered with all that work you pc guys have to do all the time.

Yea it can certainly be a pain, but there is upsides to it though :p Like if it turns out I do have a problem then I'll be able to take out whatever the problem part is and chuck in one of the spares I have of most components, send it off for replacement under warranty and carry on gaming. With a console if something goes wrong you gotta send the entire thing away and not have anything to game on till it returns ;)

Plus with a powerful PC gaming on it is just so much better an experience than console, and there's the fact that PC's are a hell of a lot more versatile than consoles :p 

Yep very true, I've already been through two Xbox Ones, and I'm on my second PS4. Bare in mind I barely play them lol. The first Xbox was doa, disc drive was broken, the second was the squeaky fan (which the current one does if on too long but not as loud). The first PS4 the disc drive broke, all things that can easily be replaced/fixed without bother. With both consoles it took ages and I had to start from scratch downloading all my games, game patches and OS patches.

Both platforms have pros and cons depending on the individual. 

[Hughesy]

Getting annoyed, for some reason Pcars keeps crashing...lol I didn't have this problem  throughout development, but now the game is complete I do :s

[sjsharp2010]

Hughesy said:

Getting annoyed, for some reason Pcars keeps crashing...lol I didn't have this problem  throughout development, but now the game is complete I do :s

All games crash from time to time unfortunately. (I've just had DAI crash on me fortunately I had just saved it as I had just returned to Haven from the Hinterlands and fortunately when you change maps it automatically saves

[DarkRedslayer]

RevolvingPrawn said:

SamuelTrautman said:

that's why im strictly plug and play console gamer just cant be bothered with all that work you pc guys have to do all the time.

Yea it can certainly be a pain, but there is upsides to it though :p Like if it turns out I do have a problem then I'll be able to take out whatever the problem part is and chuck in one of the spares I have of most components, send it off for replacement under warranty and carry on gaming. With a console if something goes wrong you gotta send the entire thing away and not have anything to game on till it returns ;)

Plus with a powerful PC gaming on it is just so much better an experience than console, and there's the fact that PC's are a hell of a lot more versatile than consoles :p 

really depends on your preferred type of game, or input device.

sure you can use a controller on PC for FPS. but you'll be at a blatant disadvantage because of it.

[DarkRedslayer]

Hughesy said:

RevolvingPrawn said:i

SamuelTrautman said:

that's why im strictly plug and play console gamer just cant be bothered with all that work you pc guys have to do all the time.

Yea it can certainly be a pain, but there is upsides to it though :p Like if it turns out I do have a problem then I'll be able to take out whatever the problem part is and chuck in one of the spares I have of most components, send it off for replacement under warranty and carry on gaming. With a console if something goes wrong you gotta send the entire thing away and not have anything to game on till it returns ;)

Plus with a powerful PC gaming on it is just so much better an experience than console, and there's the fact that PC's are a hell of a lot more versatile than consoles :p 

Yep very true, I've already been through two Xbox Ones, and I'm on my second PS4. Bare in mind I barely play them lol. The first Xbox was doa, disc drive was broken, the second was the squeaky fan (which the current one does if on too long but not as loud). The first PS4 the disc drive broke, all things that can easily be replaced/fixed without bother. With both consoles it took ages and I had to start from scratch downloading all my games, game patches and OS patches.

Both platforms have pros and cons depending on the individual. 

and award for worst luck ever goes too...

[Hughesy]

sjsharp2010 said:

Hughesy said:

Getting annoyed, for some reason Pcars keeps crashing...lol I didn't have this problem  throughout development, but now the game is complete I do :s

All games crash from time to time unfortunately. (I've just had DAI crash on me fortunately I had just saved it as I had just returned to Haven from the Hinterlands and fortunately when you change maps it automatically saves

No this was crashing every time I launched it. Then when I went to play GTA Online with @RevolvingPrawn it kept crashing, so I quickly figured out (even though I'd been drinking) that it was the driver. So deleted and reinstalled and all is well :) Playing Pcars whilst being a little drunk is fun :D

[Hughesy]

Feeling a little shaky after last nights drinking, but it's time to play Pcars :D

[sjsharp2010]

Hughesy said:

sjsharp2010 said:

Hughesy said:

Getting annoyed, for some reason Pcars keeps crashing...lol I didn't have this problem  throughout development, but now the game is complete I do :s

All games crash from time to time unfortunately. (I've just had DAI crash on me fortunately I had just saved it as I had just returned to Haven from the Hinterlands and fortunately when you change maps it automatically saves

No this was crashing every time I launched it. Then when I went to play GTA Online with @RevolvingPrawn it kept crashing, so I quickly figured out (even though I'd been drinking) that it was the driver. So deleted and reinstalled and all is well :) Playing Pcars whilst being a little drunk is fun :D

yeah sometimes it's because of a problem sometimes it's the game at least you found out what it was in my case it was just the game crashing. As I just rebooted it and it worked fine after that.

[Hughesy]

@RevolvingPrawn Just bought the DLC, and posted a nice screenshot on Steam of the Bentley GT3. It looks lush, now to see what it can do B)

[Platy]

Couldn't find any decent online lobbies this afternoon. The bug where you can't change your car view is extremely annoying.

[Hughesy]

Can't say I've ever experienced that, is it only when playing online? Maybe the host has it locked to a certain view.

[Platy]

Yeah, its only online. I believe its when you join while a session is in progress it locks you to bumper view. You also can't go out on track. Only happens in some lobbies too, its very strange.

[Hughesy]

Ah, does sound annoying. I haven't played online yet, so that would explain why I haven't had that bug. Hope they patch it soon. I'm loving the Bentley Continental GT3, it's probably my favourite car from the pack, although the BMW V12 is also awesome. :)

[Hughesy]

If there was one license I wish SMS could get, it would be BTCC, this sim would be perfect for it. :D

Great.... In career mode if I make a pit stop my tyres are all punctured once I leave the pit lane :rage: 

[Hughesy]

I started a new career, but this time going the GT route as the ai are so much better in those cars. For the first two races in the Clio cup I won easily on 100% difficulty, but the third event at Silverstone I'm over 1.5 seconds slower than the ai. Not sure why though as I'm really pushing, I just can't get near them on this track :(

[Platy]

I struggled in the Clio Cup at Silverstone. AI are amazing there, not so much at the other tracks. I think its the type of corners that allows them to be quick.

[Hughesy]

Glad it's not just me :joy: I went and did practice mode and did lap after lap, but couldn't get near what first place had set in career mode. Doesn't really matter as I have a huge points advantage, so I'll just get as many points as possible.

[Platy]

http://www.projectcarsgame.com/home/announcing-project-cars-2

Its April 1st right?

[Hughesy]

Platy said:

http://www.projectcarsgame.com/home/announcing-project-cars-2

Its April 1st right?

Nope, this was known about long before Pcars even came out. Is now the time to announce it? No it's not, but it's going to be in development for a few years. The reason being its crowd funded again, so they want people to invest early while there's a buzz about the game.

[scottishwildcat]

Platy said:

http://www.projectcarsgame.com/home/announcing-project-cars-2

Its April 1st right?

Tricky one for them, to be fair. It's perfectly normal for developers to start working on their next game as soon as or more usually before the current one launches, even though they plan to support the current one for some time. But the crowdfunding model inevitably means that schedule makes them look a bit money-grabbing.

That said, given how well the first one sold, you'd think they could fund the first bit of development with profits from that... but then it might not inspire confidence if they start asking for money halfway through development, either.

[Platy]

Asking to crowd fund a 2nd game when the 1st one isn't finished is a joke. No issue with them working on a 2nd game, just asking for money again is stupid. Such a greedy thing to do, but it sums up the industry well.

Release a game a month ago... "Give us money so we can make a 2nd one!" 

[scottishwildcat]

They've never claimed the first one is finished, nor is there any suggestion that any of the money they're asking for now will be used for their planned ongoing support of pCars 1. That's the rod they've made for their own back... what they're doing is completely normal development practice for privately funded companies, but it's hard to make it sound attractive when they're asking for the funding from us.

[Platy]

It doesn't matter if they've claimed its finished or not. The game has been out 6 weeks, they've just had a massive influx of sales due to the Steam summer sale and now that's ended they've gone "hey look, we're going to make a new game, buy in now for little to no reward other than an overpriced early access experience and you can get to enjoy Ian Bell's shitty attitude to everyone who has a slight issue with his game on a 2nd forum."

The announcement should have waited several months, let the first game get up to a higher standard that fits the attitude of the head of studio then let people buy into their overpriced EA. They've gone about this poorly, and while they can silence the critics on their own forums they've got a whole internet out there that disagrees with their practices.

[Hughesy]

That bit about Bell made me lol. I've said many times over the past few years that his attitude is awful, constructive criticism wasn't allowed. One time early in development I said there was a problem with manual gearbox when using the clutch, there was a massive delay in downshifts causing the back end to spin out. He said it was fine and I was moaning about nothing and a few other choice words thrown in. A few months later in the build notes it said "fixed an issue with delayed downshifts when using the clutch" 

He's always had a bad attitude.

[Platy]

The funniest ones for me are when people post videos of the bad AI, which he loves and hates any criticism of. He usually replies with things like "you were too slow, left a big gap, learn to treat them like they're human". Yeah, just because the guy is slower or there's a gap there doesn't mean the AI should drive into you, that's not how humans drive so stop saying your AI is humanlike.

I had a look at the sign up prices, honestly I was shocked that they're so high for a 2nd game in the series. Also seems like if you sign up today you'll be able to start with the pre-alpha already. I just feel this is a dangerous precedent to set, its feels to me like an extreme version of Early Access which already has dangerous flaws.

[Hughesy]

Yea I agree, for the first game funding started at £10 I think, but you then had to pay the rest once the game was released. I do think it's really bad announcing it already, even as a early backer of the first game I think this is very wrong.

[Platy]

£50 is the lowest price this time, no way is the game going to be (or should be) that on release. You're basically paying an extra £10-£20 for the early access.

[Operator1]

While SMS has indeed been more responsive than other game companies when it comes to direct community engagement & releasing patches, I disagree with committing any resources to a sequel (or DLC) while the current version still needs significant work to function fully & properly...

...But anyone who feels that way should definitely avoid saying so to SMS or its studio head, or else they'll instantly label you as an "idiot member of the lunatic fringe" & ban you.

Why would I pay for the "privilege" of providing feedback during "early access" phases when they've publicly demonstrated such hostility towards any feedback that isn't grossly gushing with flattery?

I've been enjoying Project CARS while being lucky enough to not be affected much by its technical issues, but the company's (& community's) common responses to legitimate & civil critiques & concerns leave a lot to be desired. Anything other than cult-like devotion & cheerleading seems to swiftly incur the vengeful wrath of the studio head & his sycophantic supporters.

It's a real shame. I'd like to support their efforts, but I can't support their attitude. Even though I like the game, its "community" is systematically being filtered down to a one-sided herd that I don't want to be associated with.


...P.S. - @Hughesy : I appreciate your candor about your experiences as an early backer. Many of the "WMD Members" on the public forum often come across like pompous elitists who view themselves as part of an "early access master race" while the rest of us are merely "post-launch peasants."

[DarkRedslayer]

There does seem to be a very elitist tone among the fanboys and the devs. Seen people asking for rewind, and getting eaten alive by the elitist swine on the board.

Honestly, IMO, No racing game should exist in today's world, that has offline play, and not have rewind. Its a great tool for people learning, and to make glitches far less annoying. And with how wonky the physics in Pcars is on some vehicles, a rewind feature would do the game well.

[Platy]

No idea why people shoot down a rewind feature when the game has a car reset feature that damages online play.

One thing I'd like to see in a racing game is the ability to select a few corners that you can repeatedly practice.

[dirt3joe]

Operator1 said:

While SMS has indeed been more responsive than other game companies when it comes to direct community engagement & releasing patches, I disagree with committing any resources to a sequel (or DLC) while the current version still needs significant work to function fully & properly...

...But anyone who feels that way should definitely avoid saying so to SMS or its studio head, or else they'll instantly label you as an "idiot member of the lunatic fringe" & ban you.

Why would I pay for the "privilege" of providing feedback during "early access" phases when they've publicly demonstrated such hostility towards any feedback that isn't grossly gushing with flattery?

I've been enjoying Project CARS while being lucky enough to not be affected much by its technical issues, but the company's (& community's) common responses to legitimate & civil critiques & concerns leave a lot to be desired. Anything other than cult-like devotion & cheerleading seems to swiftly incur the vengeful wrath of the studio head & his sycophantic supporters.

It's a real shame. I'd like to support their efforts, but I can't support their attitude. Even though I like the game, its "community" is systematically being filtered down to a one-sided herd that I don't want to be associated with.


...P.S. - @Hughesy : I appreciate your candor about your experiences as an early backer. Many of the "WMD Members" on the public forum often come across like pompous elitists who view themselves as part of an "early access master race" while the rest of us are merely "post-launch peasants."

lol. It sounds like your love affair with project cars has ended. Who'd have thunk it ? SMS turn out to have exactly the same issues as any other games studio.

A quick look at the forum does not make pretty reading. Well, you pay the price for having a forum full of group think and yes men.

Regarding project cars 2, mysteriously now when you stump up your  cash and bust a gut doing dev work for them it appears that you get no share of the profits. Wonder why that is.

FWIW I am still enjoying pcars. It hasn't been out of the XB1 for weeks. Not a perfect game by any means, but still a very impressive effort. I hope they fix the bugs though, and I have a sneaking suspicion PCars 2 will not do as well as Pcars 1 because of the mess they made of the console releases.

[MastaVonBlasta]

dirt3joe said:
Regarding project cars 2, mysteriously now when you stump up your  cash and bust a gut doing dev work for them it appears that you get no share of the profits. Wonder why that is.

Oh yeah! Didn't realise it until you've pointed it out - there's no mention of profit distribution with pCARS2!

And who knows... maybe there won't be any with pCARS1 as after reading some of the articles the whole arrangement smells dodgy and I feel for the fellas who have 'invested' £25k...

[Platy]

I think if they had gone about this in a better way then there wouldn't have been such an outcry. Instead of a massive announcement that made PC2 the focal point, they should have gone down the route of talking about PC1 and what their plans for it were and at the end of that announcement had a bit about their future, PC2 and how you can buy in if you're interested. That way casual players still see PC1 being important and it shouldn't upset as many people.

Too late for that now. 

[Operator1]

dirt3joe said:
lol. It sounds like your love affair with project cars has ended. Who'd have thunk it ? SMS turn out to have exactly the same issues as any other games studio...

If you had read more carefully, you'd have seen me clearly say that I like the game & the game studio's responsiveness. What I don't like is the general attitude coming from the game studio & its community. Compare it to Gordon Ramsay: good chef with an awful personality.

[APR193]

Not surprised they'd decided to make a sequel this early or put some thought into what was going to be in it, but announcing it a month after the game came out and with it still being in the state that it is in is never going to win you any fans. Very bad publicity

[DarkRedslayer]

I just don't get why they need fan funding again already.

[scottishwildcat]

The most compelling reason I can think of is that they want feedback on what they're doing from day one again (which is good, right?), and asking for £50 before you get access to those feedback channels is certainly a good way to filter out the people who'd inevitably sign up just to slag it off and complain.

[DarkRedslayer]

Just seems a bit greedy.

[Operator1]

DarkRedslayer said:

I just don't get why they need fan funding again already.

scottishwildcat said:

The most compelling reason I can think of is that they want feedback on what they're doing from day one...

Normally, I would agree - but given how badly they seem to react to anything less than glowing praise, I'm not sure "feedback" would be their primary reason for taking on early backers.

Personally, I think the whole "paid early access" craze that's spreading throughout the industry is little more than a scheme to get consumers to pay to test, saving the game companies from the expense of paying more actual testers (a bit like Tom Sawyer fooling others into paying him to do his fence-painting work for him)... And the whole thing seems even more fishy to me when a game is still released-to-retail with numerous game-impacting issues even after so many "paid early access" testers were involved & reporting those issues all along.

[scottishwildcat]

Well, at the end of the day, it will succeed if enough people like what they're doing and back them again, and it will fail if people feel like they're being fleeced and don't. Which, in a way, is more refreshingly transparent than what goes on at a lot of companies.

[Platy]

They don't need the money to make the next game, they just want to get people in to help develop it.

I just tried playing some online on PS4 for the first time in a couple of weeks, its made me want to get rid of the game. So many bugs that ruin the game. Joined a lobby, can't join qualifying so I wait, no problem don't mind starting from the back, race starts and I'm locked in bumper cam, try to adjust my HUD and the game crashes.

Previous lobby there was someone wrecking cars, only one care in a full lobby, but because the kick process is so awful he gets to stay in the lobby and ruin everyone else's fun. I feel like lots of really obvious things have been overlooked. You just have to look around other racing games and their online play and work out where they've gone wrong and improve on them, is it really that difficult?

[Platy]

Played this game for the first time since the 2.0 patch dropped. I guess I need to redo all my controller handling settings because the cars just feel so light and twitchy now, like they're not connected to gravity.

Also, get rid of the car reset function!!!

[AMSKRR]

Just been playing this recently and Je sus Christ the AI is the worst. Like they have no idea where I am.

Apparently Je sus is censored? 

[Platy]

Fairly decent read about PCars2.

http://pretendracecars.net/2015/07/18/we-played-the-beta-of-project-cars-2-so-you-didnt-have-to/

[Hughesy]

Ian Bell being a bell end  as per usual. Haven't read it all yet, but it is indeed a interesting read

Edit: Read it all now, confirms everything I thought. Top tip, don't invest. Ian Bell is so far up his own arse he doesn't  know what the sun looks like...

[Operator1]

Platy said:

Fairly decent read about PCars2.

http://pretendracecars.net/2015/07/18/we-played-the-beta-of-project-cars-2-so-you-didnt-have-to/

That article links to another very interesting one illustrating the tendency for SMS to ban those who don't obediently fall in line with the herd (& its shepherd):

http://pretendracecars.net/2015/01/31/wmd-forums-turn-into-a-mess-as-slightly-mad-studios-begin-removing-users-questioning-the-direction-of-project-cars/

Project C.A.R.S = "Community Assisted Racing Simulator" ...they got the graphics, audio, & physics down pretty good, but they really need a lot more work on the "community" and "racing" aspects.

[Hughesy]

Yea I posted here about them banning people who said anything negative, even in a constructive way. Many who backed the game got banned for simply saying something is broken or needs improving. It's why I stopped posting on WMD a few years into development, as there was no point as all they wanted was yes men.

[Syn]

pCARS was the first game I EVER returned after opening (didn't know I could before...), it was that disappointing. I'm hearing reasonably positive things regarding update 2.0, but I'll be waiting until this is <$20 in the bargain bin/used to buy again. I'm really hoping Assetto Corsa turns out well for console. Though I'll be waiting for reviews first.

[RevolvingPrawn]

Project cars is actually better than Assetto Corsa by a long way imo. So if you didn't like PCars then I wouldn't hold your breath for AC.