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Why do game developers release games that are not even finished?

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FRACTURED said:
Feel the love up in here.

  • Body is 15 personal attacks too short.
Once you've worked long enough as a software developer, you quickly learn that while you yourself may occasionally be clueless, the customer is always clueless. It's high time people stopped finding this sort of ignorance acceptable, especially without any contributions on their part.

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The customer is usually the least clueless person I would deal with. You've got to look to management for the really clueless people. 

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Development should dictate the release date.

In this case Codemasters have a yearly release so the release date is fixed permanently.

While people may not point the finger at the developers/publishers there are lots of things you can do to mitigate issues with a fixed release point.
  • Reduce Scope
  • Invest more in development
  • Invest more in testing
Unfortunately none of these seem to have been used, or at least not effectively.

So 3 reasons, a fixed release schedule + poor management + lack of investment. Maybe also a lack of talent or ability but that's hard to judge.

So basically like any crappy game/software/project.

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Retr0fly said:
Development should dictate the release date.

In this case Codemasters have a yearly release so the release date is fixed permanently.

While people may not point the finger at the developers/publishers there are lots of things you can do to mitigate issues with a fixed release point.
  • Reduce Scope
  • Invest more in development
  • Invest more in testing
Unfortunately none of these seem to have been used, or at least not effectively.

So 3 reasons, a fixed release schedule + poor management + lack of investment. Maybe also a lack of talent or ability but that's hard to judge.

So basically like any crappy game/software/project.

Many agree & know what the problems are & what can be done to address those problems, but (as my first post on this thread says) companies won't take the necessary measures to improve quality as long as it remains more profitable for them not to - and we (consumers) need to stop making it profitable to release badly defective games if we want better quality games at launch.


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Still £43 for Xbox. Ouch.

Another £13 off and game share with someone and maybe then it will be worth it.


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Because TECHNOLOGY. Chuck Yeager's Air combat worked out of the box BECAUSE IT HAD TO. platforms like Steam and the playstation network facilitate game developers being slack because, what the hell, we'll just bring out a 4gig day 1 patch. What we gain by being able to have DLC and changeable games we lose with 1/2 arse game releases, and codemasters have been the king of that with F1. i have honestly never seen a game released in this bad  a shape. Sure Sniper ghost warrior 3 was released without the promised multiplayer and 5 min load times BUT at least CI GAMES came straight out and said "we git this one wrong and we are sorry". And honestly their game was still more playable upon release than F1 2017 was / is

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Coffer said:
Operator1 said:

Coffer said:
Welcome to a world where you don't get to choose your release dates and you have to put out a yearly release for a sport infinitely more complex than football, with a team considerably smaller than EA's, all for the sake of the FIA. Even accounting for how lazy CM were in a lot of places with this release, there's only so much you can do before you have to put everything out and switch focus to the patching process.

F1 2017 is CodeMasters' 9th consecutive F1 game: they've had 9 years to work on polishing the functional quality of the series, and they reuse the same core game engine & many of the same game assets over multiple releases, so it's not like they start all over from a blank slate every year.

CodeMasters has been making multi-platform racing games for 20 years, so they should have more than enough experience & know-how by now to release games that don't have so many critical gameplay-impacting issues. Instead of learning from mistakes, they seem to repeat many of the same ones, along with making all new ones each release.
>they've had 9 years to work on polishing the functional quality of the series
Are you going to somehow tell me that they haven't polished the series significantly between F1 2009 and F1 2017?

>and they reuse the same core game engine
Are you saying that's a bad thing? What, would you rather they relied on the Unreal Engine like the absolute comedians at SimBin UK? Do you even have any idea how long it takes to develop a new engine? If you had any knowledge of the history of the series, you probably would, as that's why F1 2014 was delayed with a stop-gap game being released in its place.

>so it's not like they start all over from a blank slate every year
With certain issues, they absolutely do. You need only look at the transition between any of the first 4 games (2009->2012), or 2015->2016. Them being lazy with a good number of issues doesn't change the fact that they're still adding as in between iterations as can be added in a yearly release by a smaller company than EA on a more complicated series than FIFA.

>CodeMasters has been making multi-platform racing games for 20 years
Which means you probably know about TOCA Race Driver 3 and GRID, different yet equally wonderful examples of what they can do when they're not limited by the FIA and by having to put out yearly releases. The same goes for Dirt Rally - the difference between a game they were allowed to work on freely as their pet project compared to something they had to rush out just to hit their ridiculous deadline (Dirt 4, especially after the FIA took the WRC license away from them and gave it to Milestone in their mad quest to become even bigger comedians than those guys or SimBin UK) should be simple enough for even you to see.

>
Instead of learning from mistakes, they seem to repeat many of the same ones, along with making all new ones each release.
At this point, given your extreme ignorance of what game development implies as well as the actual plethora of issues within the game, I wouldn't be caught dead taking what "seems" to you to be the case seriously.
So are you gonna sit and tell me we don't see the same bugs crop up year in and year out?? That seems like making the same mistakes to me.And are you also gonna say this game isn't a bug infested unplayable mess?? Coz that seems like making all new mistakes to me??

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Coffer said:
Operator1 said:

Coffer said:
Welcome to a world where you don't get to choose your release dates and you have to put out a yearly release for a sport infinitely more complex than football, with a team considerably smaller than EA's, all for the sake of the FIA. Even accounting for how lazy CM were in a lot of places with this release, there's only so much you can do before you have to put everything out and switch focus to the patching process.

F1 2017 is CodeMasters' 9th consecutive F1 game: they've had 9 years to work on polishing the functional quality of the series, and they reuse the same core game engine & many of the same game assets over multiple releases, so it's not like they start all over from a blank slate every year.

CodeMasters has been making multi-platform racing games for 20 years, so they should have more than enough experience & know-how by now to release games that don't have so many critical gameplay-impacting issues. Instead of learning from mistakes, they seem to repeat many of the same ones, along with making all new ones each release.
>they've had 9 years to work on polishing the functional quality of the series
Are you going to somehow tell me that they haven't polished the series significantly between F1 2009 and F1 2017?

>and they reuse the same core game engine
Are you saying that's a bad thing? What, would you rather they relied on the Unreal Engine like the absolute comedians at SimBin UK? Do you even have any idea how long it takes to develop a new engine? If you had any knowledge of the history of the series, you probably would, as that's why F1 2014 was delayed with a stop-gap game being released in its place.

>so it's not like they start all over from a blank slate every year
With certain issues, they absolutely do. You need only look at the transition between any of the first 4 games (2009->2012), or 2015->2016. Them being lazy with a good number of issues doesn't change the fact that they're still adding as in between iterations as can be added in a yearly release by a smaller company than EA on a more complicated series than FIFA.

>CodeMasters has been making multi-platform racing games for 20 years
Which means you probably know about TOCA Race Driver 3 and GRID, different yet equally wonderful examples of what they can do when they're not limited by the FIA and by having to put out yearly releases. The same goes for Dirt Rally - the difference between a game they were allowed to work on freely as their pet project compared to something they had to rush out just to hit their ridiculous deadline (Dirt 4, especially after the FIA took the WRC license away from them and gave it to Milestone in their mad quest to become even bigger comedians than those guys or SimBin UK) should be simple enough for even you to see.

>
Instead of learning from mistakes, they seem to repeat many of the same ones, along with making all new ones each release.
At this point, given your extreme ignorance of what game development implies as well as the actual plethora of issues within the game, I wouldn't be caught dead taking what "seems" to you to be the case seriously.
So are you gonna sit and tell me we don't see the same bugs crop up year in and year out?? That seems like making the same mistakes to me.And are you also gonna say this game isn't a bug infested unplayable mess?? Coz that seems like making all new mistakes to me??
>the same bugs crop up year in and year out
Besides a couple of them which are indeed inexcusable, yes.

>unplayable mess
Yes, you'd have to be pretty far gone to say that this is actually unplayable. If you want a proper unplayable game, yet again, try playing Project Cars in its first few months.

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Coffer said:
Operator1 said:

Coffer said:
>they've had 9 years to work on polishing the functional quality of the series
Are you going to somehow tell me that they haven't polished the series significantly between F1 2009 and F1 2017?

Not so much in terms of functional quality at launch. What good are new features, graphics, & physics if the game doesn't function properly until after multiple post-launch patches are released?

Coffer said:
>and they reuse the same core game engine
Are you saying that's a bad thing?

No - I'm saying reusing assets means less time & effort is required to develop each installment.

Coffer said:
...different yet equally wonderful examples of what they can do when they're not limited by the FIA and by having to put out yearly releases...

Other CodeMasters titles also had substantial gameplay-impacting issues at launch.

Coffer said:
...At this point, given your extreme ignorance of what game development implies as well as the actual plethora of issues within the game, I wouldn't be caught dead taking what "seems" to you to be the case seriously.

At this point, given your extreme tendency to defend broken games and sling personal insults, I wouldn't be caught dead trying to continue any further rational & civilized discussions with you.


>if the game doesn't function properly
Define 'properly'. There's no such thing as a bugless product. There are mediocre features, and especially undeniable extreme laziness on CM's part, but only a handful of bugs, none of which are gamebreaking. I've not even run into the quali fake times bug anymore after Russia, and I tested for it extensively on multiple tracks, including ones where I know it happened before like Australia.

>Other CodeMasters titles also had substantial gameplay-impacting issues at launch.
Mostly since they got the F1 license, which, again, you can thank the FIA for. Prior to that, no, the issues were minimal and their games were better.

>At this point, given your extreme tendency to defend broken games and sling personal insults, I wouldn't be caught dead trying to continue any further rational & civilized discussions with you.
I love how you're still defending your extreme ignorance even now. You absolutely deserve to be insulted for your inane idiocy and stubbornness, and the more you keep your mouth shut and instead focus on actually figuring out what's going on with your own little brain, the better. Not that I would expect anything of the sort from you since you take such great pleasure in talking about things you are completely clueless about.
Oh sorry codies turns out it was all the FIA's fault my humble apologies for criticising your broken game.

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Coffer said:
Operator1 said:

Coffer said:
>they've had 9 years to work on polishing the functional quality of the series
Are you going to somehow tell me that they haven't polished the series significantly between F1 2009 and F1 2017?

Not so much in terms of functional quality at launch. What good are new features, graphics, & physics if the game doesn't function properly until after multiple post-launch patches are released?

Coffer said:
>and they reuse the same core game engine
Are you saying that's a bad thing?

No - I'm saying reusing assets means less time & effort is required to develop each installment.

Coffer said:
...different yet equally wonderful examples of what they can do when they're not limited by the FIA and by having to put out yearly releases...

Other CodeMasters titles also had substantial gameplay-impacting issues at launch.

Coffer said:
...At this point, given your extreme ignorance of what game development implies as well as the actual plethora of issues within the game, I wouldn't be caught dead taking what "seems" to you to be the case seriously.

At this point, given your extreme tendency to defend broken games and sling personal insults, I wouldn't be caught dead trying to continue any further rational & civilized discussions with you.


>if the game doesn't function properly
Define 'properly'. There's no such thing as a bugless product. There are mediocre features, and especially undeniable extreme laziness on CM's part, but only a handful of bugs, none of which are gamebreaking. I've not even run into the quali fake times bug anymore after Russia, and I tested for it extensively on multiple tracks, including ones where I know it happened before like Australia.

>Other CodeMasters titles also had substantial gameplay-impacting issues at launch.
Mostly since they got the F1 license, which, again, you can thank the FIA for. Prior to that, no, the issues were minimal and their games were better.

>At this point, given your extreme tendency to defend broken games and sling personal insults, I wouldn't be caught dead trying to continue any further rational & civilized discussions with you.
I love how you're still defending your extreme ignorance even now. You absolutely deserve to be insulted for your inane idiocy and stubbornness, and the more you keep your mouth shut and instead focus on actually figuring out what's going on with your own little brain, the better. Not that I would expect anything of the sort from you since you take such great pleasure in talking about things you are completely clueless about.
What a douche!

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OP is right. The game is playable since day one, but c'mon, this is not near close to a finished game. A lot of patches in less than 2 weeks only proves it.

CM should be more responsible with launch date.

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All games have a production deadline, if it is not ready in time, then its normal procedure to release it if it 's playable and patch all bugs afterwards.

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I have no problem with any of it if they reduced the game's price accordingly. Hahahahahahaha. Ha. Hahaha. Reading that back after typing it, its bloody hilarious.

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Coffer said:
Coffer said:
Operator1 said:

Coffer said:
Welcome to a world where you don't get to choose your release dates and you have to put out a yearly release for a sport infinitely more complex than football, with a team considerably smaller than EA's, all for the sake of the FIA. Even accounting for how lazy CM were in a lot of places with this release, there's only so much you can do before you have to put everything out and switch focus to the patching process.

F1 2017 is CodeMasters' 9th consecutive F1 game: they've had 9 years to work on polishing the functional quality of the series, and they reuse the same core game engine & many of the same game assets over multiple releases, so it's not like they start all over from a blank slate every year.

CodeMasters has been making multi-platform racing games for 20 years, so they should have more than enough experience & know-how by now to release games that don't have so many critical gameplay-impacting issues. Instead of learning from mistakes, they seem to repeat many of the same ones, along with making all new ones each release.
>they've had 9 years to work on polishing the functional quality of the series
Are you going to somehow tell me that they haven't polished the series significantly between F1 2009 and F1 2017?

>and they reuse the same core game engine
Are you saying that's a bad thing? What, would you rather they relied on the Unreal Engine like the absolute comedians at SimBin UK? Do you even have any idea how long it takes to develop a new engine? If you had any knowledge of the history of the series, you probably would, as that's why F1 2014 was delayed with a stop-gap game being released in its place.

>so it's not like they start all over from a blank slate every year
With certain issues, they absolutely do. You need only look at the transition between any of the first 4 games (2009->2012), or 2015->2016. Them being lazy with a good number of issues doesn't change the fact that they're still adding as in between iterations as can be added in a yearly release by a smaller company than EA on a more complicated series than FIFA.

>CodeMasters has been making multi-platform racing games for 20 years
Which means you probably know about TOCA Race Driver 3 and GRID, different yet equally wonderful examples of what they can do when they're not limited by the FIA and by having to put out yearly releases. The same goes for Dirt Rally - the difference between a game they were allowed to work on freely as their pet project compared to something they had to rush out just to hit their ridiculous deadline (Dirt 4, especially after the FIA took the WRC license away from them and gave it to Milestone in their mad quest to become even bigger comedians than those guys or SimBin UK) should be simple enough for even you to see.

>
Instead of learning from mistakes, they seem to repeat many of the same ones, along with making all new ones each release.
At this point, given your extreme ignorance of what game development implies as well as the actual plethora of issues within the game, I wouldn't be caught dead taking what "seems" to you to be the case seriously.
So are you gonna sit and tell me we don't see the same bugs crop up year in and year out?? That seems like making the same mistakes to me.And are you also gonna say this game isn't a bug infested unplayable mess?? Coz that seems like making all new mistakes to me??
>the same bugs crop up year in and year out
Besides a couple of them which are indeed inexcusable, yes.

>unplayable mess
Yes, you'd have to be pretty far gone to say that this is actually unplayable. If you want a proper unplayable game, yet again, try playing Project Cars in its first few months.
Imagine you're fighting for championship for the entire season and sooner or later AI is going to put dry tires on even though it's starting to rain already and it's only going to intensify. You stretch your stop by 1-2 laps, put on Inters\Wets and you win because AI are not capable of doing that. Same thing with Safety Car.

Technically you can say this game's playable but I can't. I can't imagine how I would keep my motivation to play after even one race's results are compromised. If you can play a game like that - good for you but do you really think that it's okay for the offical F1 game to be that sloppy? You really think I demand too much from it?

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