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Kerbs

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kevinkirk said:
Coffer said:
kevinkirk said:
Coffer said:
kevinkirk said:
When I say "ride the kerbs" I only mean in the minimal, unavoidable sense, or rather in situations where it is the best line out of a corner.
well if the line you are taking causes you to lose time over the curbs then it isnt the best line.
It only costs you time because the kerbs are exaggerated. Worse yet, a lot of them are interpreted by the game as being off the track, so even with perfect grip and traction on them you still lose power because the game thinks you're off-track.

EstrayOne said:
Borq said:
There are way too many kerbs in this game that are too high and will send you flying if you hit them. The most problematic for me have been turns 4 and 5 in Monza, 6 and 7 in Hungaroring and half of them in Baku. These are pretty damn annoying because they aren't nearly this high in real life.
They are though. drivers have trouble accelerating on kerbs in real life, you don't see it as well on TV
The Sochi pole lap invalidates your claim.

The curbs are suppose to challenging. They are not as challenging as they should be to be honest. They should be able to damage your car when you hit them wrong or to hard like in real life. I mean, we have car setup options. So indeed we need something concerning the track that gives us the need to use those options. If we don't have a reason to need to dial the car in with setups ,  then that makes the car setup options pointless. You see the cars bouncing all over the place in real life on them. Breaking suspensions, cracking the tub and so on. Some drivers like bottas I think it was, injured his back for hitting them to hard a year or two back.  So indeed the game needs to represent that part of racing a F1 car and the tracks they race on. 
Just because the Ferrari's suspension and steering are very vulnerable doesn't mean the kerbs should be that dangerous for every car, as Ferrari are the only ones who have had any issues whatsoever with that this year. The ones in Sochi in particular for instance are intended to be driven over, yet right now a number of them are much too tall compared to the real ones and even the ones that aren't are overly exaggerated or trigger the out-of-track bug.

And no, it's not a setup thing. I've tested that on 110% difficulty, with multiple flashbacks in the same corner to see how the car reacts every time. It's overdone compared to AMS, and given how shoddy the rFactor engine's implementation of kerbs is, it shows that CM are nowhere near as diligent regarding this issue as Reiza are.

>You see the cars bouncing all over the place in real life on them.
You don't see them jumping on the two left wheels at Monza on turn 1 for instance, so no.

>Some drivers like bottas I think it was, injured his back for hitting them to hard a year or two back.
You don't have to drive like an idiot like Bottas did in Australia that one time to run into issues with this game's kerbs.
something tells me if I comment that a stop sign is red, then you are going to reply it isn't. Curbs are suppose to be challenging just like real life. Just because you see LH making them look easy in a merc doesn't they are easy for every driver in every car. Now if you do or don't want the game to represent that reality, then that's another matter. Just keep in mind this is a game that wont let us even spin the car out when we are not on throttle. Cant we please have something reassembling real life like difficult curbs to add a little challenge in driving the car for pete sakes? Its almost boring,  I mean I have the brake pressure at 100 and bias all the way to the rear just to add some excitement and challenge to driving the car.
Your arguments are more like telling people to jump off a cliff and hoping people will listen. Kerbs are nowhere near that challenging if you have any idea how to take them and if they're actually done correctly, as they are in games like AC and AMS.

>doesn't they are easy for every driver in every car
Ericsson proves you wrong on a bi-weekly basis, especially in these cars. In real life, all it takes is a good setup and knowing how the kerbs will react. This doesn't help you in the game very much.

>Its almost boring,  I mean I have the brake pressure at 100 and bias all the way to the rear just to add some excitement and challenge to driving the car.
Let me guess, you're on the pad, right? The pad has brake assists this year.

pijin said:
If anything, kerbs are MUCH easier this year than last. Last year, you had to practice pretty hard to ride the kerbs, especially in slow corners. Im thinking those that mastered it last year find this years' quite good, while those that struggled don't like it still. Honestly, I feel like you HAVE to use Kerbs in some of the tracks this year to rotate the car, and can gain a lot of time on some tracks by doing so.
I mastered them with extreme ease last year when I dominated the Ultimate AIs with a Manor, as the cars suited me phenomenally well. This year they've taken a step back because they opted to listen to the F1 2013 fans.

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Coffer said:
kevinkirk said:
Coffer said:
kevinkirk said:
Coffer said:
kevinkirk said:
When I say "ride the kerbs" I only mean in the minimal, unavoidable sense, or rather in situations where it is the best line out of a corner.
well if the line you are taking causes you to lose time over the curbs then it isnt the best line.
It only costs you time because the kerbs are exaggerated. Worse yet, a lot of them are interpreted by the game as being off the track, so even with perfect grip and traction on them you still lose power because the game thinks you're off-track.

EstrayOne said:
Borq said:
There are way too many kerbs in this game that are too high and will send you flying if you hit them. The most problematic for me have been turns 4 and 5 in Monza, 6 and 7 in Hungaroring and half of them in Baku. These are pretty damn annoying because they aren't nearly this high in real life.
They are though. drivers have trouble accelerating on kerbs in real life, you don't see it as well on TV
The Sochi pole lap invalidates your claim.

The curbs are suppose to challenging. They are not as challenging as they should be to be honest. They should be able to damage your car when you hit them wrong or to hard like in real life. I mean, we have car setup options. So indeed we need something concerning the track that gives us the need to use those options. If we don't have a reason to need to dial the car in with setups ,  then that makes the car setup options pointless. You see the cars bouncing all over the place in real life on them. Breaking suspensions, cracking the tub and so on. Some drivers like bottas I think it was, injured his back for hitting them to hard a year or two back.  So indeed the game needs to represent that part of racing a F1 car and the tracks they race on. 
Just because the Ferrari's suspension and steering are very vulnerable doesn't mean the kerbs should be that dangerous for every car, as Ferrari are the only ones who have had any issues whatsoever with that this year. The ones in Sochi in particular for instance are intended to be driven over, yet right now a number of them are much too tall compared to the real ones and even the ones that aren't are overly exaggerated or trigger the out-of-track bug.

And no, it's not a setup thing. I've tested that on 110% difficulty, with multiple flashbacks in the same corner to see how the car reacts every time. It's overdone compared to AMS, and given how shoddy the rFactor engine's implementation of kerbs is, it shows that CM are nowhere near as diligent regarding this issue as Reiza are.

>You see the cars bouncing all over the place in real life on them.
You don't see them jumping on the two left wheels at Monza on turn 1 for instance, so no.

>Some drivers like bottas I think it was, injured his back for hitting them to hard a year or two back.
You don't have to drive like an idiot like Bottas did in Australia that one time to run into issues with this game's kerbs.
something tells me if I comment that a stop sign is red, then you are going to reply it isn't. Curbs are suppose to be challenging just like real life. Just because you see LH making them look easy in a merc doesn't they are easy for every driver in every car. Now if you do or don't want the game to represent that reality, then that's another matter. Just keep in mind this is a game that wont let us even spin the car out when we are not on throttle. Cant we please have something reassembling real life like difficult curbs to add a little challenge in driving the car for pete sakes? Its almost boring,  I mean I have the brake pressure at 100 and bias all the way to the rear just to add some excitement and challenge to driving the car.
Your arguments are more like telling people to jump off a cliff and hoping people will listen. Kerbs are nowhere near that challenging if you have any idea how to take them and if they're actually done correctly, as they are in games like AC and AMS.

>doesn't they are easy for every driver in every car
Ericsson proves you wrong on a bi-weekly basis, especially in these cars. In real life, all it takes is a good setup and knowing how the kerbs will react. This doesn't help you in the game very much.

>Its almost boring,  I mean I have the brake pressure at 100 and bias all the way to the rear just to add some excitement and challenge to driving the car.
Let me guess, you're on the pad, right? The pad has brake assists this year.

pijin said:
If anything, kerbs are MUCH easier this year than last. Last year, you had to practice pretty hard to ride the kerbs, especially in slow corners. Im thinking those that mastered it last year find this years' quite good, while those that struggled don't like it still. Honestly, I feel like you HAVE to use Kerbs in some of the tracks this year to rotate the car, and can gain a lot of time on some tracks by doing so.
I mastered them with extreme ease last year when I dominated the Ultimate AIs with a Manor, as the cars suited me phenomenally well. This year they've taken a step back because they opted to listen to the F1 2013 fans.
why are we still debating this when super slow mo in the race broadcasts shows exactly how curbs are? They literally show in broadcasts super slow mos of the car on 2 and 3 wheels, looking like it going to burst into pieces from vibrating so bad when going over curbs. In the shots the wheels look like they are going to vibrate off the rim in these shot yet here I am still trying to point out curbs are difficult.

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kevinkirk said:
Just keep in mind this is a game that wont let us even spin the car out when we are not on throttle.
You greatly miss understand the aero efficiency of a modern F1 Car.....

This year the cars can achieve beyond 6G's Lateral,
They achieve a downforce ratio of 1.1 at around 100kph, (which means the car has now doubled its weight)

At 180kph the downforce ratio is roughly 2:1

At 300kph you are a small Island.
palmer and every other driver that has spun backwards off the track this year for various different reason would probably debate you on that. lol, That downforce is only working when going forward and the air is going over the wings like it should. Once the car is sideways even slightly the downforce immediately  drops away because air isn't going over the wings/car like it was designed to. That's the way downforce works on every car in every series

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I mastered them with extreme ease last year when I dominated the Ultimate AIs with a Manor, as the cars suited me phenomenally well. This year they've taken a step back because they opted to listen to the F1 2013 fans.
I'm sorry, I just can't believe that some people are finding the 2017 kerbs harder to handle than 2016. In 2016, I felt I couldn't take kerbs flat out even in higher speed corners. The only thing I can find different is kerbs rotate the car more this year, so maybe clipping the inside kerb while turning into a high speed corner in say, COTA or Suzuka can potentially unbalance the car..

Out of curiosity, what kind of aero setups are you running? I ran front-biased aero throughout 2016, but now, I almost always run either symmetric or even rear biased.. Not for kerbs, but more because I feel like most of the time to be gained in this game is by being confident in traction out of corners, but it could be the knock-on effect is that kerbs easier to take for me. I also run softer rear shocks than front, again, intended for traction, but maybe it helps with driving on kerbs as well.

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@kevinkirk

If you're talking about the rear dropping away on turn in or mid corner then yeah i do agree that this should be occurring much easier during Free Practice 1 etc, especially on low speed corners as the track surface at that stage should in theory be absolutely shithouse in most cases, Ie.. Dusty green track etc.

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kevinkirk said:
Coffer said:
Your arguments are more like telling people to jump off a cliff and hoping people will listen. Kerbs are nowhere near that challenging if you have any idea how to take them and if they're actually done correctly, as they are in games like AC and AMS.

>doesn't they are easy for every driver in every car
Ericsson proves you wrong on a bi-weekly basis, especially in these cars. In real life, all it takes is a good setup and knowing how the kerbs will react. This doesn't help you in the game very much.

>Its almost boring,  I mean I have the brake pressure at 100 and bias all the way to the rear just to add some excitement and challenge to driving the car.
Let me guess, you're on the pad, right? The pad has brake assists this year.
why are we still debating this when super slow mo in the race broadcasts shows exactly how curbs are? They literally show in broadcasts super slow mos of the car on 2 and 3 wheels, looking like it going to burst into pieces from vibrating so bad when going over curbs. In the shots the wheels look like they are going to vibrate off the rim in these shot yet here I am still trying to point out curbs are difficult.
Because as I said several times before, Vettel's Sochi pole lap proves you wrong in every way imaginable.

>They literally show in broadcasts super slow mos of the car on 2 and 3 wheels
It's never as extreme as what the game does. Try taking the first Monza hairpin the way the real cars do at the same speed they take it, and you'll hop much more than they did.

>In the shots the wheels look like they are going to vibrate off the rim
That's what you get for basing your weak arguments on "looks". The tyres can easily withstand that in real life, and on the rare occasions when they can't (Silverstone this year or in 2013), it's because Pirelli are idiots.

kevinkirk said:
kevinkirk said:
Just keep in mind this is a game that wont let us even spin the car out when we are not on throttle.
You greatly miss understand the aero efficiency of a modern F1 Car.....

This year the cars can achieve beyond 6G's Lateral,
They achieve a downforce ratio of 1.1 at around 100kph, (which means the car has now doubled its weight)

At 180kph the downforce ratio is roughly 2:1

At 300kph you are a small Island.
palmer and every other driver that has spun backwards off the track this year for various different reason would probably debate you on that. lol, That downforce is only working when going forward and the air is going over the wings like it should. Once the car is sideways even slightly the downforce immediately  drops away because air isn't going over the wings/car like it was designed to. That's the way downforce works on every car in every series
You seriously have very little knowledge of F1 if you're simplifying it to that extent.

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pijin said:
I mastered them with extreme ease last year when I dominated the Ultimate AIs with a Manor, as the cars suited me phenomenally well. This year they've taken a step back because they opted to listen to the F1 2013 fans.
I'm sorry, I just can't believe that some people are finding the 2017 kerbs harder to handle than 2016. In 2016, I felt I couldn't take kerbs flat out even in higher speed corners. The only thing I can find different is kerbs rotate the car more this year, so maybe clipping the inside kerb while turning into a high speed corner in say, COTA or Suzuka can potentially unbalance the car..

Out of curiosity, what kind of aero setups are you running? I ran front-biased aero throughout 2016, but now, I almost always run either symmetric or even rear biased.. Not for kerbs, but more because I feel like most of the time to be gained in this game is by being confident in traction out of corners, but it could be the knock-on effect is that kerbs easier to take for me. I also run softer rear shocks than front, again, intended for traction, but maybe it helps with driving on kerbs as well.
>In 2016, I felt I couldn't take kerbs flat out even in higher speed corners.
I have no idea what kind of setups you were running then, because even with ones that very clearly should suffer on kerbs (strong suspension etc) I could take them just fine in most cars. The only one I had any real trouble with was the Renault, which was by far the worst car in 2016 and generally required running with low diff settings and general crazy setups.

>The only thing I can find different is kerbs rotate the car more this year
I'm not even noticing that - if anything you could use them in that sense to a much better degree in 2016 if you fiddled with your throttle. The jumps are much more noticeable, as is the fact that a lot of them are interpreted as being off-track and thus triggering the power loss.

>so maybe clipping the inside kerb while turning into a high speed corner in say, COTA or Suzuka can potentially unbalance the car..
Yep, not noticing that. The esses on both tracks are much easier this time around and largely uninteresting. I always go purple in them relative to both the 110% AI. At COTA in particular the kerbs are overly harmless, the exact opposite of the usual problem.

>Out of curiosity, what kind of aero setups are you running?
Generally depends on the track. Sometimes I run 1 more at the front, sometimes I run it equal. It's largely no different between 2016 and 2017 for me and I've found few cases where I had to run completely different wing settings compared to 2016 in the Haas (and the Manor in that game).

>but now, I almost always run either symmetric or even rear biased.
There's your problem. Which car are you driving? Because the vast majority of the time, that's slow in just about every car I've tried other than the Toro Rosso, which is so far the worst car in the game.

>Not for kerbs, but more because I feel like most of the time to be gained in this game is by being confident in traction out of corners
To me so far it's entirely down to carrying as much speed into the corners as possible. The traction shouldn't be an issue as the AI is weak at that outside of long corners, where it simply has far more front grip than the player on 110%.

>I also run softer rear shocks than front, again, intended for traction, but maybe it helps with driving on kerbs as well.
I largely do the same and it does help a little bit, but in general compared to last year's game you have to go a fair bit softer, which slows you down in other places. I'm starting to reach a point where it's worth bumping the rear up again, but it's nothing like 2016 where by the end of my time with that game I was almost universally running it harder at the rear than the front and generally favoring oversteer as the Haas and the Manor were monstrously quick when powersliding with them, especially in the rain.

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