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2017 Winest Auto Singapore Grand Prix

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The start if anyone is keen: IMO Vettel was fault in this case
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WQQCksRmug&feature=youtu.be

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Nah, it definitely was Kimi. And maybe a hint of Vettel for cutting across like that.

Oh fucking piss off Renault, ruined a podium for Hulkenberg.

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Well yeah Vettel was silly to come across anyway, no need to take the risk just as Verstappen said. 

It's just a shame that such a good setup for the race turned into that. And now the race we have gotten has been a real borefest frankly.

Edit: Seeing Verstappens on board a few times it does look like Vettel was never going to hit Max, looks more like Kimi caused the initial contact. Hard to say though and kind of irrelevant as it's a racing incident anyway, it's just disappointing for the race.

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Jiggy said:
Hulkenberg 3rd though, I'm staying in case something shocking happens.

If he DOESN'T get the podium today, he'll overtake Sutil as the driver with the most GP's without a podium.

He might get a win today with a very good Renault.
Look mate, we all like a beer or two. But being drunk around this time of the day just isn't cool.
This could apply to everyone saying the crash at the start was someone's fault. It was just a silly racing incident. Which for the sixth billion time involves the Ferraris and Max Verstappen. 

Obviously Alonso's crash cannot be considered a racing incident. That's genuinely the most amount of bad luck I've seen a driver get in the history of F1

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Jiggy said:
Yeah, I'd like to give my opinion without being called drunk, thank you.
And I would like to be able to play guitar like Eric Clapton. Unfortunately that's not going to happen either.

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Disappointing day but only in so much that Vettel lost a potential win. There was little hope of the title anyway and that's just evaporated to no hope. 

I don't really understand the blame being given to Vettel though (and I have no problem giving the blame to Vettel when it's legitimately his fault [Spa 2016]). His move was agressive but fair. It was Kimi who turned in to Verstappen to start the carnage off when there was still space on the inside. If he'd kept going straight it would've been avoided. 

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Tbf Seb, this one gif in particular is pretty damning if you ask me:

https://media.giphy.com/media/Eyr8R1dAItpPG/giphy.gif

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Tbf Seb, this one gif in particular is pretty damning if you ask me:

https://media.giphy.com/media/Eyr8R1dAItpPG/giphy.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmVyfTUCbNU
(Skip to 0:20)


Wanna know the difference? There was a third car which Seb couldn't possibly see.

The move was within the rules and a penalty for any of the three drivers would be a complete and utter joke.

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I think it was a racing incident but was a stupid move by Seb. His main title rival is way down the field, you don't need to be so aggressive at the start - particularly in these conditions. It doesn't really matter if Verstappen, or even Raikkonen, gets past him. Stay ahead of Hamilton at T1 and see what comes.

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fIsince08 said:
I think it was a racing incident but was a stupid move by Seb. His main title rival is way down the field, you don't need to be so aggressive at the start - particularly in these conditions. It doesn't really matter if Verstappen, or even Raikkonen, gets past him. Stay ahead of Hamilton at T1 and see what comes.
100% disagree. Not only is that a terrible attitude for a racing driver to have, but everyone knows at Singapore whoever makes it to turn 1 first wins the race. The only exceptions to that in the race's entire history is when Hamilton retired in 2012 and Renault cheated in 2008. 

It was absolutely imperative that Verstappen and Raikkonen stayed behind him. For that I have no problem with the aggressiveness of Seb's move. 

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VetteIfan said:
fIsince08 said:
I think it was a racing incident but was a stupid move by Seb. His main title rival is way down the field, you don't need to be so aggressive at the start - particularly in these conditions. It doesn't really matter if Verstappen, or even Raikkonen, gets past him. Stay ahead of Hamilton at T1 and see what comes.
100% disagree. Not only is that a terrible attitude for a racing driver to have, but everyone knows at Singapore whoever makes it to turn 1 first wins the race. The only exceptions to that in the race's entire history is when Hamilton retired in 2012 and Renault cheated in 2008. 

It was absolutely imperative that Verstappen and Raikkonen stayed behind him. For that I have no problem with the aggressiveness of Seb's move. 
As if Raikkonen would be allowed to take the win. And I still disagree. Banking points for second, so long as Lewis stayed behind, would have given him a six point lead leaving the race rather than being 28 behind. Championships are won with consistent podiums.

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Jiggy said:
Yeah, I'd like to give my opinion without being called drunk, thank you.
And I would like to be able to play guitar like Eric Clapton. Unfortunately that's not going to happen either.
More referring to the Carpa-comment. Yours was banter, I'm cool with that.


Also, back on the start, Kimi turned in on Verstappen like Vettel turned in on Webber in Istanbul 2010. Thought he was in front, cut across too soon and right rear gets clipped by left front. It's a very subtle movement, but a movement nonetheless. So that's why it's on Kimi mostly. Lack of spatial awareness.

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Jiggy said:
Also, back on the start, Kimi turned in on Verstappen like Vettel turned in on Webber in Istanbul 2010. Thought he was in front, cut across too soon and right rear gets clipped by left front. It's a very subtle movement, but a movement nonetheless. So that's why it's on Kimi mostly. Lack of spatial awareness.
I'm not so sure. If you look at Kimi's on board and where his front tyre is against the white line, it hardly moves at all. Compare that to Vettel's on board from Turkey 2010 and it's clear he moves over far more aggressively. Here's some screenshots of both, and it's clear to see how much Vettel moved over in Turkey, while for Raikkonen it hardly changes.




Compare that with the one from today...




For both of these, the first picture is when they are behind the other's front wheel, and the final picture is the exact frame before contact is made.

Therefore I do not blame Raikkonen at all for this. Vettel is 100% at fault here, but I think it was correct to call it a racing incident. He clearly wasn't expecting Raikkonen to have had such a mega start.

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In terms of the rest of the race, it was a big shame they all had that crash because it robbed us of a potentially brilliant fight for the win. Raikkonen or Verstappen could've been leading into T1, and with Hamilton and Alonso having great starts they could've all been going for it.

Hamilton must've had the biggest grin on his face when he saw Vettel spinning. To be honest, it was lucky that he took such a tight line through the exit of T3 so he was able to avoid Vettel. If he followed Vettel's line he could've well been caught up in that.

It was good to see Palmer finally get some luck, but yet again, it shows that Renault have made a great move by signing Sainz for next year. What a brilliant drive! Hulkenberg so unfortunate, when on earth will that podium come?!

Also, did anyone else have their heart in their mouth when Magnussen went past Massa on the straight? Literally an inch closer and that would've been a plane crash, as Brundle calls it.

But yeah, championship is basically game over now. Even if Hamilton does have a DNF in the last 6 races, he should still have the upper hand over Vettel at all the remaining circuits. What a shame this crash happened today.

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It's not over at all.

I'm a pessimist and I don't think it is, not just yet. Give it another couple of races.

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fIsince08 said:
As if Raikkonen would be allowed to take the win. And I still disagree. Banking points for second, so long as Lewis stayed behind, would have given him a six point lead leaving the race rather than being 28 behind. Championships are won with consistent podiums.
If he got in to the lead with Verstappen in 2nd then he wouldn't have had much choice but to take the win.

But no, that's wrong. You can't win a championship without winning races, and winning races where you've got a car advantage and you can inflict maximum damage. That's how ships are won. "Banking points" is what Vettel did at Monza and Spa. 

This is especially potent this year for Vettel seen as since Spain he's had a general car disadvantage and will probably have going forward.

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MBKF1 said:
Jiggy said:
Also, back on the start, Kimi turned in on Verstappen like Vettel turned in on Webber in Istanbul 2010. Thought he was in front, cut across too soon and right rear gets clipped by left front. It's a very subtle movement, but a movement nonetheless. So that's why it's on Kimi mostly. Lack of spatial awareness.
I'm not so sure. If you look at Kimi's on board and where his front tyre is against the white line, it hardly moves at all. Compare that to Vettel's on board from Turkey 2010 and it's clear he moves over far more aggressively. Here's some screenshots of both, and it's clear to see how much Vettel moved over in Turkey, while for Raikkonen it hardly changes.




Compare that with the one from today...




For both of these, the first picture is when they are behind the other's front wheel, and the final picture is the exact frame before contact is made.

Therefore I do not blame Raikkonen at all for this. Vettel is 100% at fault here, but I think it was correct to call it a racing incident. He clearly wasn't expecting Raikkonen to have had such a mega start.
It's very much true that Vettel's movement was much more severe than Kimi's. But I did describe it as a subtle movement and it was subtle enough to initiate contact. Might be a bit harsh to pin it on him, but if he moved any other direction, then he would've been clear. There was enough space on the left for him to do so. So overall, it's a case of Ferrari's disregarding cars around them and the collision could've been easily prevented.


As for the championship, it's definitely over. Vettel needs to be punching above his weight in 6 races and Hamilton needs to suffer from severe bad luck in 6 races. And you don't tend to get bad luck when you start from pole.

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