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In that video on #16 is were it gets suspicious already, that is roughly 10 seconds faster all of a sudden compared to #17.

Personally i dont care about leaderboards, at all, but i would love to see a video on that track with that time or even less, if it is achievable without cheating one way or another.

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Ahh, the wonderful PC Leaderboards. Yeah, I already know how fubar they are. My time on Tupasentie (pc) would qualify as a top 50 on 360, even higher if the cheats taking the 'suicidal through the trees' shortcuts had been removed. I wouldn't have commented if you had said the pc Top 40 times are cheats. But your post says that ALL top 40 times are cheats, it doesn't specify a platform. Which is not true.

I know for a fact that about half the top 40 times on 360 are legit, because I've either followed the ghosts to check, or raced the guys posting the times in various competitions, both on the old DiRT3 forum and others.

Gerbie, any time below a 2.20 for Tupasentie is dubious at best.

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Leaderboard issues are something I really want to address. I'm sorry there is nothing we can do about it in previous games but I am confident we can do something about it in future. As for cuts, I'm a little more torn about that. As a rally driver the fastest way is not always on the road. I do however think that we can employ some more crafty level design techniques to ensure that the cuts that are taken are more inline with what is seen in real life rather than cutting between trees in a forest. Risk versus reward is the key. Hope that sets your minds at ease.

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Small addition here

I was playing some CMR04 today, and while working my way through a Spain stage in the Ford Puma (closish to my car :D), i heard some helicopter sound effects. I thought that was quite a cool addition, helping immerse me into rallying, knowing my awesome (not really) driving was being televised.
But lo and behold, round the next corner i actually see this helicopter just across from me! I thought it was just some clever sound effect, but i wasnt expecting to see a heli.

Now having played through DiRT 1 and 2, and a couple hours of 3, i can't think of ever seeing this. Its a small addition to the game, but i think it adds a lot.

Would be good for the replays too, to make it looks like its on TV. Sometimes catching the Heli blades in the shot, or the shadow of the heli.

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KickUp said:
As for cuts, I'm a little more torn about that. As a rally driver the fastest way is not always on the road. I do however think that we can employ some more crafty level design techniques to ensure that the cuts that are taken are more inline with what is seen in real life rather than cutting between trees in a forest. Risk versus reward is the key. Hope that sets your minds at ease.
Yup

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Ahh, the wonderful PC Leaderboards. Yeah, I already know how fubar they are. My time on Tupasentie (pc) would qualify as a top 50 on 360, even higher if the cheats taking the 'suicidal through the trees' shortcuts had been removed. I wouldn't have commented if you had said the pc Top 40 times are cheats. But your post says that ALL top 40 times are cheats, it doesn't specify a platform. Which is not true.

I know for a fact that about half the top 40 times on 360 are legit, because I've either followed the ghosts to check, or raced the guys posting the times in various competitions, both on the old DiRT3 forum and others.

Gerbie, any time below a 2.20 for Tupasentie is dubious at best.
I get carried away by feelings :)
is exaggeration to say that the 30-40 are cheats in "all" tracks ... but no matter if they are 2, 5 or 20... yes 2:20. That is the average in track. The porblema is caused when some competitors use a kind of time-out and super speed that sometimes seems to be a normal time, but when you download the ghost is a shame. Finland is a land of cheaters...same to rallyX and trophy. I think we should focus on things that are more important than makeup :)
Sorry for my english, hablo español.

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No worries Moto, I agree with you. I've complained about this sort of thing before, especially to poor Ice UK when he was Community Leader (I remember doing it quite loudly during one of the Community nights on DiRT2 when a wallrider/suicidal tree jumper was taking part. So much that the cheat I was moaning about tried to run me off the road). I even quit out of the old forum Mod RallyWill's Time Trial Tournament as I felt he was allowing unrealistic shortcuts to be used (Will wasn't pleased, he was my team mate in the tournament). They improved things in DiRT3, I have every faith that they will improve again for DiRT4, especially now that we have the double advantage of Paul Coleman being the Co Pilot of the DiRT playing/rally driving/forum member/Codies Staff John Tucker, striving for realism in the short cut department. (Was that brown nosey enough for you guys? :D )

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Also how about a make your own rally? like a creator or something?

also if the cars are turbocharged then put a boost gauge by the speedo or in it....

Cars,
Saab 99? turbo?
Saab 96? 2stroke? V4?
Ferrari 308
Lancia ECV
Lancia 037
MK1 Escort
porsche 953
WRC Crs from current seasons
more works cars

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789ifyz said:
Agree with the majority on here of basically a better simulation of rallying.

Longer and narrower stages is a must for me, watch clips of rally Portugal and Mexico the stages are so tight and twisty its a real challenge.

Another must is to not reset 5 metres off the track, personally any reset ruins it for me, I want to take a wrong turn at a junction and have to be able to make my own way back.

Finally Spectators hear them from inside the car, however don't make a mistake of putting them straight on at a 90 degree bend, that would never be allowed in real life!

Other then that just make it as realistic as possible!

Yeah, any reset ruins it for me, too.


And speaking of spectator noise, how about a some different types of non-vehicle AI? Like different types of spectators,

spectators doing different things, larger groups on iconic marks that are included in some stages, but don't push it as far as naked people running in the snow.


Also, how about some wildlife? some cows, bull, oxen?, and other creatures depending on the country/track. they are among the dangers rally drivers face.


And, some non-racing transport e.g. random bike/quadbike, horse-riders etc.


If you're the first car on the road, you could come across closed gates.


Some of these are bound to be frustrating, so maybe they could be optionally toggled in a 'hazards' menu like,

Animals    On/off

gates        On/off

riders/bikers on/off

I mean that all sounds crazy but can't imagine it being too difficult to execute really! When you approach a closed gate do you have a choice of ramming it or watching your co-driver go open it and argue with stewards later :)
Why not? That would be fun.

I think I'd personally ram into it without bothering to slow down, (unless it's miles into a stage in career/tour mode, then I'd have flashbacks/rewinds turned off, and restarting a stage would break the momentum).

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How about nVidia Physx and/or AMD equivalent for particles, debris, stones, rocks, car parts, mud, glass, dung.... and turbulence for particles, rocks, leaves etc.

Also, PCSS, godrays, HBAO+, intel particle self-shadow and onto other particles thing from GRID 2, other visual goodies which will probably be included anyway, and 4k support

And this may sound like much, but what if all the stage maps, shakedown areas, service parks and/or areas, city/roads in between were all one huge map with NO non-physical bits.

And let us purchase cars, car-parts/upgrades, decide on H-shift or Sequential gearbox (depending on our own wheel set-up), buy left hand or right hand models, and start off in local rallies and rise to the WRC-type stuff, or even the events themselves if you can get the license. 
         Pretty sure others have said (some of) these before.

Oh, and separate careers for each discipline, with the most focus on Rally

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Bonus vehicles like those found in CMR04 would be awesome! Cars which you wouldnt normally see rallying, but are a lot of fun to do so. 

Things like the Ford Transit, Citroen 2CV and Mitsubishi Pajero.

Id personally like to see a Land Rover or two, maybe a Suzuki SJ like my old field car :P


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dreigo42 said:
How about the full Dakar? Make it happen Codies!
Dakar would be awesome, how would you want it to play though?
Live from Australia, i would love to answer this question ;) there have been a dakar game before, ans u could make it as the old cmr games, there are a few special stages and a small time to repair your car/ truck or motorcycle

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justbiglee what about you to add the Acropolis rally you had in in Colin mac rae 1-2 ..?
The rally of gods!
\m/
and many classic rally cars as many you had in Dirt 3...i love DIRT's 3 car list...

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This is more aimed at Codemaster's, than standard forum users'.

I'd like to return to Codies for rallying. As I approach 50 I've spent many years buying their stuff, paying for dlc, etc., etc.

I bought absolutely nothing in recent years, on purpose. The later titles sadly lost focus in my mind and became children's cash cows. Console projects that held little return value. Arcade handling, and a lack of care or responsibility that leaderboards were filled with cheat times that had little to do with skill - but everything to do with cutting corners, or basically driving through the scenery to record top times. Unrealistic, unrewarding and flawed beyond belief.

A franchise lost in it's own inability to do the right thing by the genre, and its money spending fans. Harsh, but quite true. I've said it - until I am blue in the face, that making a full on sim with assists is entirely possible. Why do people like driving rally cars, if it isn't the challenge, if it isn't driving down roads twice as fast as we know we should do. I want nothing less than a full on RBR beater.

Modern day kick-ass visuals. But visuals modelled on real stage scenery of the world. It doesn't matter if "official" licences as such aren't held. Include a livery editor for free - or even cheap via dlc. It would make more sense for revenue to charge for it because not all drivers' want to spend hours creating real liveries. With the official WRC licence taken, if the cars are included, liveries can be created by the buying public if they wish.

I'd rather have lots of long tracks, with real life assists-off driving, than any amount of content that'll take time to create and get in the way of what really matters. Which to me is the look, feel and challenge of driving rally cars quickly. I don't care for virtual interviews, driving from stage to stage, etc. I'd rather you spend the 2 months that it would take to create all the other non-essential (in my view) parts on making the handling as close to real as possible - when driven with assists off. I completely understand why people like those features - I'm not knocking that. We are all different. But Geoff Crammond proved years ago, you could build realism, and keep the "pick-up and play" drivers' happy, with an array of assists.

I'd like every terrain modelled. Mud, clay, gravel, tarmac, shale, etc., etc. But more than that I want to drive stages like they appear in real life. Affected by snow, rain, damp, fog, ice patches, wet leaves, mud that builds on a stage as it ages, puddles, aqua-planning., etc. Miss a pace note and I want my inside wheel punctured by boulders if I mess up big time. If other people don't - they can turn off that realism and dumb their own game down to whatever level makes them happy. It's about the buzz and adrenalin. Not everyone wants to suffer retirements, or limping back to end finishing line.

Why would I be happy in 2014 to settle for less than a full on rally experience? Seriously, playing safe and banging out sub-standard stuff now is not an option. Not if you want countless sim fans like me to return to your franchise. I want realistic lighting, different times of day modelled. Night. Just like we'd see in real life. I want real ruts, pot holes, just like RBR used. Game-changers! I want rally put back on the map, no pun intended.

I want replays to die for. Look at your opposition and take their best features and make them look silly. We shouldn't need to explain what will make a kick-ass rally experience. I want narrow stages, like many of you. I want to see almost photo realism as I drive towards a finish line. I want stages 4 or 5 times longer than the average that we saw in Dirt 2 and 3. RallyX would be an awesome "extension" of the rally franchise. Even if I had to pay to add the cars/tracks. I don't expect all of this for nothing. I don't expect Codies to go out of business building the ultimate rally title. But please, sort the basics. I hope Codies have the balls to trash what was beyond repair, and leave it behind. I'd love Codies to give me every reason to return and buy your next rally title on multiple platforms like I used to do before.

By the way, real driver endorsement means nothing if the engine, the physics, and tracks don't become more realistic. It just becomes boring marketing. I can promise Codies that clever marketing practises won't get me back to your franchise spending money on your hard work. Turn out reworked stuff based on what I've played before and I won't be buying it. I certainly won't be buying it without trying it first either. Even if that means waiting for reviews to land. I'm tired of playing arcade titles, that hold no long term challenge or appeal. I don't mind driving a track in reverse, as long as it takes 12 mins or longer to drive. I also don't want reverse tracks at the expense of new creations either. I'm looking for a huge challenge - higher concentration to finish stages etc., etc. Just like real life. The emphasis has already turned towards you (Codies) proving to me that you care. I'll buy any amount of dlc you offer. Historic cars, new events like Goodwood for example, livery editor etc., etc. But first I want the base game to blow me away.

None of this half-way house rubbish. None of the "we'll put night racing in next time". Seriously, if you can get me back to your franchise, I'd be very happy - but anything less than hard work and commitment on your part will be pretty much a waste of your time as far as I am concerned. I did support you, and supported you well. Like many world-wide I help you become what you are today. In the end though - you took a lot of my money, whilst trying to slap my face. I didn't appreciate it - which is why you've had nothing ever since. You are a self-claimed racing studio. Your efforts need to improve 400% for that marketing to become reality. But I will support you again if you give me reasons to.

I really hope Codies fans, and rally fans get the experience they deserve. You can and should get RBR handling, with assists bolted on so that you can recreate the exact experience that you want from a rally title. I'd also like to see full integration for friends. I hardly play multiplayer "live" with friends. I game more by setting challenges for friends offline. I want to be able to view stage times, even better I'd like to view replays of their hard work/crashes too. I want to see those magic-save moments when they almost lost control. I want to view splits, I also thought the DiRT social stuff was ok too, when you got updates about your friends when you booted the game.

I want to see you use: realistic type physics, realistic images of tree/shrubs etc for stage scenery and other standing objects, nice detailed car models, all the weather conditions that real drivers face, all road surface types and hazards that each world stage provides, mixed surfaces too, awesome audio for every aspect, build anti stage-cutting routines that work & test them to destruction, I want to be able to take pics from replays, I want replays that look lifelike, awesome arrays of supported wheels and amazing FFB, multi-camber designs, jumps that make your heart go in your mouth if you are spinning slightly as you leave the track, proper "Colin's Crest" moments.

I want it all! Why do I want this Codemasters? Because rallying is the some of its parts. Give me a dozen important things, and leave 2 out of the equation - and you will fail because you won't be delivering anything that different from what you have done before.

I'll tell you now, if you can get me to one of your studio's and impress me I can g'tee you'll be on the right track. You may have a larger audience on console, I completely understand why - but you've always failed to impress the PC sim driver. I own both. If you get the next rally game right, you could put the modders out of business and give nobody a reason to support modding on RBR or RF ever again. It's yours for the taking, but it will mean building a different project on PC to console.

It's yours for the taking Codemasters. I for one, hope that this year - your balls will be big enough to finally build a full rally experience worthy of Colin's name again. Build a rally game that you should have bought to the table several years ago...

Cheers

Wain

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Fantastic post @555WRC !

I agree with a vast majority of what you wrote. The next game needs to have the authentic core experience, which people will want to expand on with DLC tracks/cars or subscription. 

I think that @KickUp being the first one to click 'Agree' on your post is the #1 sign/hint many of us wanted to see.

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A lot of people were upset that Codemasters started using DLC with DiRT 3 because a lot of the DLC were already on the disk when it was released, so hope their a bit more organised this time around and add extra content that's not already on the disk.

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Hello I'm Furkan. my first wish is more focus on rally for example 10 country, 10 stages . more s2000 cars, more wrc cars, r5 car every rally car must be in this game . dirt series satisfy only game in the game world.

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good post 555WRC  i agree in most you say..i love old colin mac rae subaru 555 too ..:))
As you see codies , all members here ask for more semi-sim handling - physics for your upcoming games (next  dirt , grid) and not too arcade as you have in your latest games (dirt 3 , grid 2)
Its up to you to give us what we want...

:-h

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i'd love to see Global Rallycross championship. Less Arcade.
less gymkhana and drift.
Rally America stages
Dirt 2 was better than Dirt 3.
Dirt showdown i don't like. Please include only existing real cars.
Dirt 2 soundtrack was best.
Multiplayer with smoother collisions.
All new cars teams and liveries.
SRT USA TEAM also Rallycross.

Also please exclude Flashbacks in Multiplayer. That's not fair =(

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1. Take back CMR rally mode: stages with repairing time.
2. Take back CMR damage system: for example broken springs or engine overheating.

Here are two main problems of modern DIRT.

Handling is cool in DIRT anyway. I like it.  

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1. Take back CMR rally mode: stages with repairing time.
2. Take back CMR damage system: for example broken springs or engine overheating.

Here are two main problem of modern DIRT.

Handling is cool in DIRT anyway. I like it.  
So you don't like it when a car gets damage?

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Awesome post @555WRC, hard to disagree with anything you've said and understand where you are coming from. I think you'll like what we've got up our sleeve but I get that we need to win you back - hopefully we will :)

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