McLaren Team Mate not getting engine updates?

[Coffer 122]

AdamFreeman said:

Kimi has had the worst of the luck on a clean weekend he is very close to vettel especially when you compare bottas and hamilton. 

He would have won at malaysia if he could have started. Could have won monaco and hungary so he is still pretty fast and ferrari will know this from the data.

And last race he did good as low as 15th and finished 5th

Especially given that they couldn't fully fix Kimi's car before parc ferme. At least in Suzuka you can mostly pin it on him since he crashed in the first place, but Bottas's car for instance was fixed just fine despite a similar crash and this is still an outlier compared to the many cases where he got screwed over through no fault of his own (extreme rear end damage at Monza, for instance).

Kimi's massively underrated this season.

[TeS Roland 19]

Coffer said:

AdamFreeman said:

Verstapen and ricciardo should be in the top 5drivers stats atleast

I'd say top 10 as they are both massively overrated, but for some reason they're extremely bad in this game. Prior to the patch, Massa was putting up a very strong fight against them in pretty much every race, and even Grosjean did the same in Spain for me, a track that should naturally be a good fit for the RB and a very bad fit for the Haas. Post-patch, Perez seems to be qualifying within a tenth of Verstappen every single time for me no matter the track, which, given the FI's good tyre wear and it being even faster now than the Williams was pre-patch (while still being miles off the RB), is concerning.

This isn't the first time this has happened either. In 2014 for instance, the Ferrari and McLaren drivers were shown to be weak in the game files, with Button being especially mediocre.

Verstappen overrated? See you in 10 years. Let's see if you still have the same opinion.

Maybe it's my orange glasses but in time he will be one of the all time greatest. Last time I saw drivers like that, it was Senna and Schumacher. Hamilton is not far off either.

[TeS Roland 19]

@Coffer
I agree with you that Kimi is underrated this season. Maybe Ricciardo is not absolute top, but Verstappen? Oh man. 

[pijin 49]

Kimi is underrated,
Max is (slightly) overrated
Daniel is (slightly) overrated
Vettel is (hilariously) overrated
Massa is (slightly) underrated
Maldonado is under the ground underrated
Palmer is the next Prost
Kvyat is Senna's reincarnate
.....

Think I lost the plot a bit there... Either way, this discussion is getting a bit of topic

[Coffer 122]

Raalte said:

@Coffer
I agree with you that Kimi is underrated this season. Maybe Ricciardo is not absolute top, but Verstappen? Oh man. 

Verstappen needs to learn to race first, and his pace isn't exactly good yet if he can't consistently beat someone who barely outscored JEV by one point. Even accounting for his endless car problems, he's not been very impressive this season.

Raalte said:

Coffer said:

AdamFreeman said:

Verstapen and ricciardo should be in the top 5drivers stats atleast

I'd say top 10 as they are both massively overrated, but for some reason they're extremely bad in this game. Prior to the patch, Massa was putting up a very strong fight against them in pretty much every race, and even Grosjean did the same in Spain for me, a track that should naturally be a good fit for the RB and a very bad fit for the Haas. Post-patch, Perez seems to be qualifying within a tenth of Verstappen every single time for me no matter the track, which, given the FI's good tyre wear and it being even faster now than the Williams was pre-patch (while still being miles off the RB), is concerning.

This isn't the first time this has happened either. In 2014 for instance, the Ferrari and McLaren drivers were shown to be weak in the game files, with Button being especially mediocre.

Verstappen overrated? See you in 10 years. Let's see if you still have the same opinion.

Maybe it's my orange glasses but in time he will be one of the all time greatest. Last time I saw drivers like that, it was Senna and Schumacher. Hamilton is not far off either.

Yeah, you may want to take off those orange glasses for a moment and actually look at his pace and racecraft a bit more. They're Codemasters tier. Without the overly lenient stewards, he'd be penalized almost every race.

Hamilton is also nothing compared to Schumacher. Since the second half of 2015 he's lost most of his luster. He's simply too accustomed to his monster of a car. It's not even a question of racecraft as that had already been declining in 2012, as was easily seen in China. I'd say he's matched Senna already, but it doesn't take much as Prost, Lauda and Hakkinen were all better than both, not to mention MSC. Vettel's got a much better chance of competing with those. Arguably Alonso too, but he's more busy complaining, ruining races and getting outscored by Vandoorne these days.

pijin said:

Think I lost the plot a bit there... Either way, this discussion is getting a bit of topic

Frankly, there's not much left to discuss about this patch besides the high number of bugs and oversights, which already have threads of their own, including this one in the technical section. Not much to do except wait for a fix.

[TeS Roland 19]

Coffer said:

Raalte said:

@Coffer
I agree with you that Kimi is underrated this season. Maybe Ricciardo is not absolute top, but Verstappen? Oh man. 

Verstappen needs to learn to race first, and his pace isn't exactly good yet if he can't consistently beat someone who barely outscored JEV by one point. Even accounting for his endless car problems, he's not been very impressive this season.

Raalte said:

Coffer said:

AdamFreeman said:

Verstapen and ricciardo should be in the top 5drivers stats atleast

I'd say top 10 as they are both massively overrated, but for some reason they're extremely bad in this game. Prior to the patch, Massa was putting up a very strong fight against them in pretty much every race, and even Grosjean did the same in Spain for me, a track that should naturally be a good fit for the RB and a very bad fit for the Haas. Post-patch, Perez seems to be qualifying within a tenth of Verstappen every single time for me no matter the track, which, given the FI's good tyre wear and it being even faster now than the Williams was pre-patch (while still being miles off the RB), is concerning.

This isn't the first time this has happened either. In 2014 for instance, the Ferrari and McLaren drivers were shown to be weak in the game files, with Button being especially mediocre.

Verstappen overrated? See you in 10 years. Let's see if you still have the same opinion.

Maybe it's my orange glasses but in time he will be one of the all time greatest. Last time I saw drivers like that, it was Senna and Schumacher. Hamilton is not far off either.

Yeah, you may want to take off those orange glasses for a moment and actually look at his pace and racecraft a bit more. They're Codemasters tier. Without the overly lenient stewards, he'd be penalized almost every race.

Hamilton is also nothing compared to Schumacher. Since the second half of 2015 he's lost most of his luster. He's simply too accustomed to his monster of a car. It's not even a question of racecraft as that had already been declining in 2012, as was easily seen in China. I'd say he's matched Senna already, but it doesn't take much as Prost, Lauda and Hakkinen were all better than both, not to mention MSC. Vettel's got a much better chance of competing with those. Arguably Alonso too, but he's more busy complaining, ruining races and getting outscored by Vandoorne these days.

pijin said:

Think I lost the plot a bit there... Either way, this discussion is getting a bit of topic

Frankly, there's not much left to discuss about this patch besides the high number of bugs and oversights, which already have threads of their own, including this one in the technical section. Not much to do except wait for a fix.

You mean that same driver that outscored Vettel with 71 points?

Verstappen is one of the few drivers that can truly race. Good in overtaking, good in defending and fast in the rain. Check Brazil 2016 and the 1st lap of China 2017. Sometimes he's maybe a bit too eager and aggressive. But that's not a bad thing in my opinion. Maybe your defenition of to racing is different than mine. 

For me Vettel seems to be a bit overrated. He's fast in 1 lap but in traffic he's not that good. Being good in traffic, good in overtaking, defending and driving in the rain are the main traits a good driver has. Vettel doesn't have all of them on a high level. He's just fast when there is nobody around. 

But I doubt if we will ever agree. Seems your perception of a good driver is very different than mine. I see Senna as 1 of the greatest. You already said 5 names that you think are better. I fully disagree on that.

[AdamFreeman 224]

Vettel went from 20th to 4th and nearly got a podium so that would go against the bad in traffic thing.

Hamilton is bad in traffic just whinges! Even when hes infront actually he whinges preparing his excuses incase he loses the win.

[Coffer 122]

Raalte said:

You mean that same driver that outscored Vettel with 71 points?

Verstappen is one of the few drivers that can truly race. Good in overtaking, good in defending and fast in the rain. Check Brazil 2016 and the 1st lap of China 2017. Sometimes he's maybe a bit too eager and aggressive. But that's not a bad thing in my opinion. Maybe your defenition of to racing is different than mine. 

For me Vettel seems to be a bit overrated. He's fast in 1 lap but in traffic he's not that good. Being good in traffic, good in overtaking, defending and driving in the rain are the main traits a good driver has. Vettel doesn't have all of them on a high level. He's just fast when there is nobody around. 

But I doubt if we will ever agree. Seems your perception of a good driver is very different than mine. I see Senna as 1 of the greatest. You already said 5 names that you think are better. I fully disagree on that.

>You mean that same driver that outscored Vettel with 71 points?
Need I remind you that Trulli outscored Alonso in 2004 while he was at Renault? The same goes for Button outscoring Hamilton during their time together, or Irvine matching Schumacher for much of 1999 before Silverstone. Everyone has bogey seasons. It's how you do at your best that is worth any sort of judgment, and right now, Ricciardo would be utterly annihilated by Vettel, the same way Alonso would annihilate Trulli and Hamilton would annihilate Button.

>Verstappen is one of the few drivers that can truly race. Good in overtaking, good in defending and fast in the rain. Check Brazil 2016 and the 1st lap of China 2017. Sometimes he's maybe a bit too eager and aggressive. But that's not a bad thing in my opinion. Maybe your defenition of to racing is different than mine.
It doesn't take much to be fast in the rain in a Red Bull. Being fast in an incompetent car in the rain like the modern Ferraris (barring the 2012 one which was a literal Merc in those conditions) is a much better indication of skill in those conditions, and even then, it's more down to the setup than anything else (as Stroll and Ocon showed through their higher-than-usual downforce setup at Monza, with Vettel and Raikkonen conversely going the other way around in a car that was already terrible in the rain and suffering as a result). Your mention of Brazil makes you lose even more credibility, as Ricciardo's helmet fogged up. You can't race with a fogged helmet in the rain, as Lorenzo proved in much of 2015 in MotoGP, and the Red Bull was, as Ricciardo and Verstappen both showed earlier in the season, dominant in the rain to begin with, being much faster than even the Mercedes, just as it is this year as well.

And if that's what counts to you as being 'good' in overtaking and defense, then I fear for the state of the sport if these are the kind of fans the new lenient stewards have brought in. You wouldn't survive long in an actual racing environment.

>He's fast in 1 lap but in traffic he's not that good.
Only because his 'traffic' is usually made up of drivers who are incompetent in wheel to wheel racing and are assisted by the current Red Bull-backed terrible stewarding (Ricciardo, Verstappen, both of whom heavily rely on touring car strategies to do anything whatsoever, as China and Silverstone showed) or who have much better engines and are thus nearly impossible to overtake (Hamilton, Bottas). Or malevolent, like Alonso, who nowadays seems to have a nice habit of blocking people intentionally.

>Vettel doesn't have all of them on a high level.
He's dominant in the rain. Problem is, rain is no longer the equalizer that it was many years ago, so now it's almost entirely down to the car, as shown many times in 2008 (negatively for Ferrari) and 2012 (positively for Ferrari). None of those traits are anywhere near as important as outright pace either, of which he has the absolute most of the current field by a big margin, with only the inconsistent Verstappen coming anywhere close right now. I would also not consider hitting people or running them off when you don't have the line to be good traits either, and I'd wager most competent simracers wouldn't either.

>I fully disagree on that.
A lot of it seems to come down to you simply having less information. It doesn't take much to analyze the drivers of the last few decades, and once you do, Senna, with his extreme Honda backing, constant better engines than his teammate and permanent preferential status from a dominant McLaren, completely falls apart. Schumacher, Vettel, Prost, Hakkinen, Lauda and arguably Alonso and Hamilton are all better at the very least.

[Coffer 122]

AdamFreeman said:

Vettel went from 20th to 4th and nearly got a podium so that would go against the bad in traffic thing.

Hamilton is bad in traffic just whinges! Even when hes infront actually he whinges preparing his excuses incase he loses the win.

Much more importantly, he went from the pit lane to 3rd in the 3rd best car in Abu Dhabi 2012, and was robbed of a win from last place on lap 1 in Brazil the same year with a completely broken car that was costing him boatloads of time per lap, in conditions that were perfect for his title rival's car. You can thank Red Bull's broken radio on lap 52 for that, as it cost Vettel a full lap, without which he would've ended up ahead of Button.

[TeS Roland 19]

Coffer said:

Raalte said:

You mean that same driver that outscored Vettel with 71 points?

Verstappen is one of the few drivers that can truly race. Good in overtaking, good in defending and fast in the rain. Check Brazil 2016 and the 1st lap of China 2017. Sometimes he's maybe a bit too eager and aggressive. But that's not a bad thing in my opinion. Maybe your defenition of to racing is different than mine. 

For me Vettel seems to be a bit overrated. He's fast in 1 lap but in traffic he's not that good. Being good in traffic, good in overtaking, defending and driving in the rain are the main traits a good driver has. Vettel doesn't have all of them on a high level. He's just fast when there is nobody around. 

But I doubt if we will ever agree. Seems your perception of a good driver is very different than mine. I see Senna as 1 of the greatest. You already said 5 names that you think are better. I fully disagree on that.

>You mean that same driver that outscored Vettel with 71 points?
Need I remind you that Trulli outscored Alonso in 2004 while he was at Renault? The same goes for Button outscoring Hamilton during their time together, or Irvine matching Schumacher for much of 1999 before Silverstone. Everyone has bogey seasons. It's how you do at your best that is worth any sort of judgment, and right now, Ricciardo would be utterly annihilated by Vettel, the same way Alonso would annihilate Trulli and Hamilton would annihilate Button.

>Verstappen is one of the few drivers that can truly race. Good in overtaking, good in defending and fast in the rain. Check Brazil 2016 and the 1st lap of China 2017. Sometimes he's maybe a bit too eager and aggressive. But that's not a bad thing in my opinion. Maybe your defenition of to racing is different than mine.
It doesn't take much to be fast in the rain in a Red Bull. Being fast in an incompetent car in the rain like the modern Ferraris (barring the 2012 one which was a literal Merc in those conditions) is a much better indication of skill in those conditions, and even then, it's more down to the setup than anything else (as Stroll and Ocon showed through their higher-than-usual downforce setup at Monza, with Vettel and Raikkonen conversely going the other way around in a car that was already terrible in the rain and suffering as a result). Your mention of Brazil makes you lose even more credibility, as Ricciardo's helmet fogged up. You can't race with a fogged helmet in the rain, as Lorenzo proved in much of 2015 in MotoGP, and the Red Bull was, as Ricciardo and Verstappen both showed earlier in the season, dominant in the rain to begin with, being much faster than even the Mercedes, just as it is this year as well.

And if that's what counts to you as being 'good' in overtaking and defense, then I fear for the state of the sport if these are the kind of fans the new lenient stewards have brought in. You wouldn't survive long in an actual racing environment.

>He's fast in 1 lap but in traffic he's not that good.
Only because his 'traffic' is usually made up of drivers who are incompetent in wheel to wheel racing and are assisted by the current Red Bull-backed terrible stewarding (Ricciardo, Verstappen, both of whom heavily rely on touring car strategies to do anything whatsoever, as China and Silverstone showed) or who have much better engines and are thus nearly impossible to overtake (Hamilton, Bottas). Or malevolent, like Alonso, who nowadays seems to have a nice habit of blocking people intentionally.

>Vettel doesn't have all of them on a high level.
He's dominant in the rain. Problem is, rain is no longer the equalizer that it was many years ago, so now it's almost entirely down to the car, as shown many times in 2008 (negatively for Ferrari) and 2012 (positively for Ferrari). None of those traits are anywhere near as important as outright pace either, of which he has the absolute most of the current field by a big margin, with only the inconsistent Verstappen coming anywhere close right now. I would also not consider hitting people or running them off when you don't have the line to be good traits either, and I'd wager most competent simracers wouldn't either.

>I fully disagree on that.
A lot of it seems to come down to you simply having less information. It doesn't take much to analyze the drivers of the last few decades, and once you do, Senna, with his extreme Honda backing, constant better engines than his teammate and permanent preferential status from a dominant McLaren, completely falls apart. Schumacher, Vettel, Prost, Hakkinen, Lauda and arguably Alonso and Hamilton are all better at the very least.

I only gave a few examples. In F3 and at STR he already showed he's a star in the making. He will be multiple word champion. Probably beating alot of Schumacher's records. 

You're the first one I encounter that is a real pessimist about Verstappen. I was at the Austrian GPS this year and people would start a conversation with me about how good Max is. Happened about 18 times that weekend. Didn't encountered somebody who had your opinion. 
However, I respect your opinion. 

Let's agree to disagree.

Cheers 

[LeoCardoso 31]

F1Support

October 12

I can tell you that it's not going to be fixed in 1.9 on console (nor PC which is already live). Otherwise there is nothing further to report.


*McLaren team-mate bug

[Punition 36]

They are way to slow to patch important stuff... They know it 1 month ago before the release of 1.9.... 

[TeS Roland 19]

@F1Support

I saw the notes for 1.10 and there was no fix for this bug on it. Will it ever be fixed? Are you guys still working on it? It's been like this since release!

[SASColfer 56]

Can't believe this isn't fixed or mentioned in 1.10. The team mate battle is completely dead after season 2. 

[SASColfer 56]

Half bump half evidence. 

McLaren top of the performance tree.
Qualified 1st in Malaysia in inters conditions, Stoffel P2. 
He gets demolished on the straights in the dry race and finishes P8. 

Team mate is also currently 8th in the standings after 15 races. We've had the best car since Australia. 

[Maxsirman 0]

I don't know what to say this is so relative, I am in season 2 and Fernando was qualifying 19 to 20 before I began purchasing engine upgrades (I dedicated season 1 to reliability)...
Now he is around 14... I have 4 minor upgrades and getting stronger...

Why I say this is relative (because there should be a compromise if we don't start fresh with our career progression on upgrades)...

I am at monaco in season 2, I refuse to start again... So far I am very very happy with last patch... But i believe starting fresh is the only way to be sure

[TeS Roland 19]

Definitely there is a bug with McLaren. I check the speedtraps in Q1 at Suzuka in season 3. There is a 15 KPH gap between Alonso and me
http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/59193/career-all-2nd-drivers-slow-engine#latest

[Liaveil 137]

Is it possible to get demoted back to second driver rather than being straight up fired? (although I guess that won't matter if the Mclaren's suddenly speed up when I'm in another team) If it's possible I'll use my second Mclaren career to get myself dropped to second to see if it's just related to the AI being second driver since I have most of the engine upgrades done already in that save. Save time on blasting through even a new 5 lap career.

[echo321 0]

No clue what/how, but Wehrlein(my teammate) just got from grind place 14 to 6th in the race at Brazil, 3rd season. It didn't seem that he was affected by this bug this time... normally he drops back after the start to somewhat p16-p18... But not this time... he had really strong pace, no missing straightlinespeed... I'll check this further next race, see if i can "cause" this again...

[s00zster 262]

Add me to the list of Alonso's despondent teammates.

PC, 1.9 (new save but it's happened on older saves) and even if Alonso is right behind me and should be getting a slipstream on a straight, he slowly drops back when we're supposed to have equally powered cars. He never makes gains during races other than through pit stops and DNFs - he's always stuck trailing people, and usually finishes around 17th.

Barring "easy" tracks like China and Austria (where I tend to overachieve), we qualify pretty close, within 0.3 and sometimes he has a better fastest lap during the race than me, like last night at Spa when I was 12th and he was 17th. It's peculiar.

It's almost as if there's a database setting somewhere that's put his aggression to 0 and backs off when there's a car in front of him, because if it was a case of not receiving upgrades, then he shouldn't be faster than me at times... unless I'm just rubbish! :p

All I want is to know that eventually, he and I will be on the podium together. One day. Poor Fernando.

Edit: Forgot to state that I've got 4 minor engine power upgades fitted, and currently saving points for a major engine power upgrade.

[Liaveil 137]

Okay, I had some time to mess around today and I sacrificed one of my Mclaren saves to test it out. But from what I can see, being first driver or second driver makes zero difference. Got 8/9 power upgrades and as expected, while I was first driver, Alonso was solidly slowest in the speed traps and I just drove past him. Got myself demoted to second driver just in time for Texas with a nice long straight to test out on and I'm still faster in a straight line and Alonso is still slowest in the speed traps at 188mph while the Saubers, who we are ahead of in the powertrain graph are doing 191/192mph and I myself am able to hit 193/194. I did all 3 practice sessions several times and it was always the same.
So I can only conclude that the bug isn't at all related to first/second driver but just the Mclaren team mate as a whole.

[s00zster 262]

Monza, Alonso qualified 0.4 ahead of me in.. yes, 17th. I was 18th. But again, in the race, he just drifted back and I was able to get up to 12th again (even though I spun off on lap 1 and had to catch up and got my strategy spot on when it rained). I was able to keep up with Magnussen and stay ahead of Stroll.

I'm *so* much faster than the Saubers now, but Alonso has issues just keeping up with them. He's usually in among them and never once gets ahead.

[AdamFreeman 224]

Gp2 engine indeed!                          

[TeS Roland 19]

@CmRachel @F1Support

Is this being worked on? Starting to lose patience with this bug. The lack of communication on this bug already pisses me off. Can we finally get a statement about this bug? 

[MJB5990 0]

I thought someone posted that it was a complicated fix?