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Yes, very much agree with @dgeesio.

I stopped playing D4 quite quickly.

Still playing DiRT Rally, a lot!

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Just playing devil's advocate here - what if there isn't a specific date for updates locked in yet? We want to let you know it's coming, but we don't know when - surely slightly vaguer phrasing is better than no phrasing? We're working on the Clubs update and the accompanying patch which will include a suite of fixes, and as soon as we have a date, it'll be everywhere we can feasibly put it! But for now, it's just not something we can share. And while it's frustrating, it's a lot better than us making up a date and not delivering when the time comes because of an unforeseen issue - we just want to be sure. :)

Thanks for jumping in ChristinaMc. I get what you're saying about not wanting to announce a date. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. And you guys will catch hell when (if) the update rolls out because you can't please everyone. All apart of the biz I guess. At this point I'd just like to hear what happened at CM's after D4's release. I realize that will never happen but one can dream. And if someone says "nothing happened, this is the norm", I would laugh at the insanity.


There was a physics/bug discussion about D4 on a popular sim racing forum shortly after release. I took part in the discussion defending the game and mentioning what was said in the release day vid you guys did. The last comment was from a user who supposedly had bought previous CM games. The comment was something along the lines of "CM has your money now and could care less about supporting the game any further.". I really found that hard to believe at the time because I too sensed Paul and the team took pride in this project. Hence the pic in the OP.





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I think Codemasters did not expect what happened to DiRT4. So my best guess is they are working on a huge fix to get DiRT4 going again. The fix will be that huge that they can't even say how long it is gonna be. The thing is that i hope the fix is huge and good. Fix it so we have better physics, custom livery possibilities and less boring stages. As compensation (for the wait) we would also like to have a new country added and at least 5 new modern rally cars that were not in any previous DiRT game ;-). If that is not the fix then i am not sure if DiRT4 will be resurrected from the  pile of games that are gathering dust. Btw i agree i would rather have a date then waiting without knowing when it will be ready. Now the fix can be released next week or in december. I want to play DiRT4 and have fun so please get us a date or tell us why you cannot give us a date or give us a tool so we can edit every part of the game ourselves and create the best rally game for you and the fans.

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zissakos1 said:
 And while it's frustrating, it's a lot better than us making up a date and not delivering when the time comes because of an unforeseen issue -
I would like to disagree. Who says that?
I'd rather know an ETA and then be informed of why it can't be met, instead of being left not knowing anything.
This is exactly what the community is trying to say for months and I am really surprised that you still don't understand.
We all have jobs, with projects and deadlines, and we have all experienced unforseen issues ourselves, leading to last-minute-delays.
Nobody is going to hang you if you have to delay something, as long as you keep everyone informed about the reasons.
We are not all kids, you know.

I would like to disagree on your disagree. While this community is a little bit smaller and as such generally more polite, my experience with the F1 community on the other side of the Forum tells me that there is always going to be someone who will try to hang you because there has been a delay in the release date. And this person is possibly going to be as loud as five normal users who just say "well shame it has been delayed but it's better to have a working patch"

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ChristinaMc said:
Just playing devil's advocate here - what if there isn't a specific date for updates locked in yet? We want to let you know it's coming, but we don't know when - surely slightly vaguer phrasing is better than no phrasing? We're working on the Clubs update and the accompanying patch which will include a suite of fixes, and as soon as we have a date, it'll be everywhere we can feasibly put it! But for now, it's just not something we can share. And while it's frustrating, it's a lot better than us making up a date and not delivering when the time comes because of an unforeseen issue - we just want to be sure. :)

Just playing consumers' advocate here...

Silence, vague phrasing, and no commitments can look like unprofessional abandonment, and can cause communities to dissolve.

Open communications, clear statements, and attainable deliverables can look like professional support, and can cause communities to grow.

I'm sure you're already well aware of this, as game companies are typically very vocal & engaged with their communities when they want to stir up sales for upcoming releases. Going silent after release feels like a date who brings you flowers when they pick you up only to kick you to the curb later that night after they get what they want from you.

Of course nobody wants you to just "make up a date & not deliver." Set a realistic target & hit it. That's what professionals do. Game companies set & hit deadlines when they have a retail launch date, so why can't they set & hit deadlines for post-launch patches & updates? Is it because a retail launch is a payday & a patch release is not? If so, you can't count on many future paydays after consumers catch on.

The remnants of this series' supporters have begged CodeMasters to throw them a bone, but their pleas seem to fall on deaf ears. I'm not sure much success can be expected if you try to resuscitate the game & community after starving them of information & post-launch support to the point of being on their dying breath. "Coming soon" has been worn out & doesn't work anymore when the game & community have one foot in the grave. The time to act is now, before flat-line.

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What bothers me most about this situation is that this whole launch and post-launch felt like a complete abandonment of everything positive about the Dirt Rally experience. Past Codies releases have had a reputation of being released, maybe hotfixed a little, then gone completely quiet until the next game. Dirt Rally felt like a step away from that, with better communication and transparency resulting in a product that felt more honest. With that positive experience I put my trust in Dirt 4, but instead it's just back to the usual affair. Game is released, some hotfixes are done, and major issues are hardly even acknowledged, let alone addressed. We don't need a timeframe or estimated release date, just tell us what you're working on at least!

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BadD0g said:
What bothers me most about this situation is that this whole launch and post-launch felt like a complete abandonment of everything positive about the Dirt Rally experience. Past Codies releases have had a reputation of being released, maybe hotfixed a little, then gone completely quiet until the next game. Game is released, some hotfixes are done, and major issues are hardly even acknowledged, let alone addressed.


That's a shame. Obviously they have to make a profit to keep the doors open. It would seem that they are at least making a profit on the initial launch of these games so why not continue supporting a game and profit along the way with DLC's? They grow a solid player base which could serve as solid sales when the next title is released. Perhaps there's no profit in DLC's? Perhaps they are the slum lords of developers and just go for the quick buck? Who knows.  :\




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I for a change am waiting to find some free time and replay career with RFPE. Codies are never getting another $ from me. 

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If only Codemasters would give their fans a specific date for the release of a patch/update, instead of just saying "we're working on it" from time to time, I'm sure there wouldn't be this much bad energy here... I like the game, but it is annoying to be stuck in limbo to be honest. 

Just playing devil's advocate here - what if there isn't a specific date for updates locked in yet? We want to let you know it's coming, but we don't know when - surely slightly vaguer phrasing is better than no phrasing? We're working on the Clubs update and the accompanying patch which will include a suite of fixes, and as soon as we have a date, it'll be everywhere we can feasibly put it! But for now, it's just not something we can share. And while it's frustrating, it's a lot better than us making up a date and not delivering when the time comes because of an unforeseen issue - we just want to be sure. :)
At this point I've lost almost all interest in every racing game. The only one that's caught me by surprise is PCars 2 which is fairly good, but waiting for months for something to happen in D4 after removing my precious Greece and replacing it with the generally atrocious handling of Australia has prevented from doing anything but messing about a bit in the DirtFish area and doing my comparison screenshots.
I have 8 hours into this game.

I mean, I tried to not play Dirt Rally too much, because the stages get a bit repetitive, and I've only got 80 hours, but that's exactly 10 times as much playtime.

I've been holding out waiting for something, anything along the lines of any amount of news or information and there hasn't been any. The only thing there has been mention of is clubs, of which I have zero interest in.I kind of wish you did Roadbooks like the BeamNG guys, they just take a partial screen of what they're working on and the community scrambles to find out what it is, y'know, kind of like how it was during the DR release.
I don't know. I'm honestly kind of disappointed, and I'm already past the Steam Refund period, so I might have to just follow suit and uninstall it.

Oh, and @ChristinaMc,
httpcapnauxcomwp-contentuploads201305leslienielsenjpg

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I'm at the point of giving up on CM titles altogether - especially since neither DR / D4 run smoothly on my new system build and everything else I've played runs silky smooth, even in VR. I'm just not sure it's worth the effort to diagnose the issues.

I still have Pcars2 for RallyX and RBR for some Rally stages from time to time. Between D4 handling, WRC7 and SLRE lacking controller support, it's been one let down after another lately. Pcars2 is turning out a bit better than I expected and has a decent amount of RallyX content and some nice features.

It's still a sad state of affairs though to have reached this point.  I don't really think titles designed for consoles can meet expectations when it comes to the standards we enjoy on PC; the only racing titles that work decent on multiple platforms are designed for PC and are then ported / converted to consoles. It just doesn't work the other way around, certainly not for Simulations.

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I agree with most of the comments in here, and I just have a simple question to you guys. How did Dirt 4 get so many great reviews before and after the release? It can’t be just because they got a free game to review. Anyway, I will never ever again trust games website reviews, and will only buy a game, after reading ordinary players reviews! 

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I don't trust other users taste in general. It was funny when I was reading in the forum that D4 felt more realistic.

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i think the problem is / was me included we had little time to try it it was said to be new so expect to be new. so when things felt a little odd or off its like okay its new. i must try and practice  " new " then when you felt some of the changes like weight of the cars and some tracks events are actually better than dirt rally its like hold on this is decent. it takes time to see things arent totally right. so by launch it was too late. as i put earlier at launch i was pissed off at myself for not going to a early preview of the game cause maybe input would of helped.

as for gaming reviewers and magazine type people look at any big studio game they gunna rate it decent anyway 99 percent of the time. its the business isnt it. you wont see other devs slating other devs games either. the new thing for media or is it even new is be positive about anything. even when its bad or terrible or whatever just be positive.its false doesn't solve or help anyone but that's just how media works. being negative all the time though is exactly the same. i uninstalled dirt 4 the other day and about a month a go removed the dirt 4 logo from my youtube.

my whole channel was set just for promoting the game wanting to help show the great rally game it could be.i felt let down by how its turned out and gutted. wrc 7 has been played recently to fill the void.which sadly to say is better than dirt 4. which coming from someone who wants that next codie racing rally game stings a little when you have to go else where to get what cant be given.

hopefully its just a blip and teh next rally title is a proper game not just some push out cash grab.

as for club patch why even make that ? by the time that comes out will there even be enough player base to have clubs ? no one is playing it. should just of focused all the time on handling fix and adding real locations in which would of made most happy again. the thing is that amount of work might aswell go to the next game and probably what is actually happening.

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Funniest argument I read over and over again, is, that the stages in D4 are so boring and DR was much better...!

In DR we had 2 stages per country, split and reversed to get 8 stages at all. Every player who did more than 50 hrs in DR knew all the stages by heart! It became a hotlaping event...
Of course, the tiles for the stages are finite in D4's your-stage, but the surroundings change. And while the corners repeat, the order changes and so do the surroundings...
For me most stages are still challenging and with over 140hrs of D4 they're not boring at all...

All this negative moaning is getting on my nerves...

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Dirt rally was better.most or majority know that. doesn't make it wrong its your opinion.you can like any game you like.that is fine. for eg someone was slating dirt 4 and claimed Dirt 2 was the best game ! i had to look at my screen twice and then say WTF ? but...if thats what you like cool.

the thing with your system on short stages not too bad but on long ones its like you trapped in a loop.3/4/3/4/3/4 no lie. one of the australia events is just like that.

you need real events.it especially in dirt rally sim type environment brings that feeling you rallying the same event maybe your hero is rallying or the event you will never get to go on. so it adds. a auto generated track/event just is kinda cold. no soul or anything to it. just auto computer blah blah. people want to think ooh you can actually rally that finland stage or welsh stage. its really important.

with bland handling or bad handling and a cold computer stage generated theres no real feel to dirt 4. obviously thats my opinion.

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dgeesi0 said:
for eg someone was slating dirt 4 and claimed Dirt 2 was the best game ! i had to look at my screen twice and then say **** ? but...if thats what you like cool.
Yeah. I was surprised to see people still citing DiRT 2 as their favourite game in the series!  
dgeesi0 said:
Dirt rally was better.most or majority know that. doesn't make it wrong its your opinion.you can like any game you like.that is fine. 
It's possibly because of my preference in rally car classes but I am in the minority: my first choice in the series is still, for the moment, DiRT 4. 

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LutzM said:
Funniest argument I read over and over again, is, that the stages in D4 are so boring and DR was much better...!

In DR we had 2 stages per country, split and reversed to get 8 stages at all. Every player who did more than 50 hrs in DR knew all the stages by heart! It became a hotlaping event...
Of course, the tiles for the stages are finite in D4's your-stage, but the surroundings change. And while the corners repeat, the order changes and so do the surroundings...
For me most stages are still challenging and with over 140hrs of D4 they're not boring at all...

All this negative moaning is getting on my nerves...

I was that way the day of and the following weeks of release. My thought process was that D4 was a step forward in this genre and that they would surely support it in the way of timely bug fixes (not referring to physics or My Stage) and future updates even if in the form of DLC's.




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dgeesi0 said:
The thing with your system on short stages not too bad but on long ones its like you trapped in a loop.3/4/3/4/3/4 no lie. one of the australia events is just like that.

You need real events. Especially in a rally sim type environment brings that feeling you rallying the same event maybe your hero is rallying or the event you will never get to go on. So it adds to the experience. An auto generated track/event just is kinda cold. No soul or anything. Just auto computer blah blah. People want to think ooh you can actually rally that finland stage or welsh stage. Its really important.


I agree that the hand made stages in DR add so much to the game's Rally experience. Trouble is part of the player base gets tired of the same tracks (DLC's! DLC's! DLC's!) and rightfully claims that after a while you memorize the stages which detracts from the true Rally experience. I get that as well.

I also get that in My Stage's current form, the stages don't look as good. They're not bad, but you just don't get the same immersion and as you said, when you run those long stages it really does get repetitive.

But, my opinion is that I excepted My Stage for what it is. I bought the game knowing they were going to be generated stages. What I don't understand is why CM's doesn't defend it and support it. I'm no dev but why not add more tiles? That would've put out a lot of the fires in the beginning. Or at the very least they could've said "We're adding more tiles as we go.". Even that would've satisfied a lot of people. Adding more tiles couldn't be that much more of an expense for them and would have gone a long way in establishing a stronger user base which equals more sales.

Ultimately I think the game should've released with real Rally stages (imported from DR?) for the career and have My Stage as the feature to carry the players beyond the Career. Even with that My Stage needs more tiles and areas.

In today's gaming market games are released with issues. Depending on the level of issues I can deal with it. But I don't understand a developer that releases something like D4, slaps some hotfixes on it and lets it be. Support your product. Build your player base. Create loyal followers. Create new purchasable content. That will improve your numbers on future titles.

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Ok if not full patch notes , codemasters should give us at least a little taste about what we should expect..
With some many good racing games this period people will leave Dirt 4 for ever no matter what dlc or new content will come later..

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Ok if not full patch notes , codemasters should give us at least a little taste about what we should expect..
With some many good racing games this period people will leave Dirt 4 for ever no matter what dlc or new content will come later..
I think i am one of these people who wont come back, to many other games that are as good handling wise or better, and are actually immersive in terms of stage creation, you just dont get that on the seat of your pants driving in D4, its oh hey look there goes that same fence and tree and embankment followed by oh shit did i just go in a circle swear i just took that road 1 min ago. Pc2 has me hooked now, along with wrc 7 which is surprisingly good after the stutter was patched. Its to little to late now, common bugs like Ai times, snow setup bug, setup bug which allows your setuo to read 0 req. Ill try it again if physics get overhauled or your stage gets more tiles, could care less about clubs at this point.

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The ideal situation would be to have some real stages and your stage in addition
It is exactly what I had proposed back when in the DiRTy Gossip Thread there were rumors about a Codies WRC game: use three or four real stages from that location, which would be very long (20+km) and iconic (Col de Turini, Sweet Lamb, Ouninpohja...) and then have Your Stage generate other shorter stages to get some new roads to drive on. It would be awesome

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LutzM said:
Funniest argument I read over and over again, is, that the stages in D4 are so boring and DR was much better...!

In DR we had 2 stages per country, split and reversed to get 8 stages at all. Every player who did more than 50 hrs in DR knew all the stages by heart! It became a hotlaping event...
Of course, the tiles for the stages are finite in D4's your-stage, but the surroundings change. And while the corners repeat, the order changes and so do the surroundings...
For me most stages are still challenging and with over 140hrs of D4 they're not boring at all...

All this negative moaning is getting on my nerves...
I agree, I prefer Your Stage over DR stages any day. Of course YS is not perfect and I already pointed out ideas how to improve it.

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SamRWD said:
LutzM said:
Funniest argument I read over and over again, is, that the stages in D4 are so boring and DR was much better...!

In DR we had 2 stages per country, split and reversed to get 8 stages at all. Every player who did more than 50 hrs in DR knew all the stages by heart! It became a hotlaping event...
Of course, the tiles for the stages are finite in D4's your-stage, but the surroundings change. And while the corners repeat, the order changes and so do the surroundings...
For me most stages are still challenging and with over 140hrs of D4 they're not boring at all...

All this negative moaning is getting on my nerves...
I agree, I prefer Your Stage over DR stages any day. Of course YS is not perfect and I already pointed out ideas how to improve it.
whatever, your stage is underdeveloped and totally predictable.

in DiRT Rally you have few stages but you'll never get through the same corner over and over, every turn is different, and i'm not talking about the background. Angles, width of the road, jumps, pits, rocks, trees.

in DiRT 4 you will race in the same corner multiple times even in the shorter generated stages, with the same obstacle, the same background, the same width... And they could even recycle tips and things from DiRT 1-2-3-Rally and even Showdown.

IDK how this cannot be boring.
Re-Volt used a better track editor than this and you have only 8 pieces to use

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