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This is exactly the problem I have with Your Stage. Every time after finishing a stage all I could remember of the stage was tiles or some of the tiles but not the stage itself and when the next stage came up and I was at the finish line all I could remember was those same tiles that were in the previous stage. And this made me feel like I'm driving the same stage over and over again or some sort of variation of that same stage.

I'm not saying it won't, but adding more tiles might not solve this problem after all because you would still remember the tiles or more likely some of the tiles but yet again not the actual stage (at least I can't). Unless there are like gazillion different tiles and some sort of limit how many times the same tile can be used in a single rally or even for the same stage. And even then it might not be enough, because even though D4's generated stages 'feel' repetitive and same it might be just an illusion and the stages are quite different from each other. It's just how the brain remembers things and puts it all together. At least in my case, I'm sure there are a lot of people who feel differently about it.

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dirt3joe said:
SamRWD said:
So why not use Your Stage with more tiles? That produces even more variety than fictional environment with roads, road surroundings, and everything else in between? 
More tiles won't solve the problem of repetition. The issue is when you look at a stage you look at it tile by tile so you remember the format of the tile no matter where it is in the stage. Even though there maybe be umpteen quadrillion combinations, it's the individual tiles that stick in the mind, not the entire combination.

There is a way round this, but as usual requires some effort which may not be totally trivial.
Are you responding to Your_Stage discussion in general, or to Open_World_Full_Of_Roads_That_We_Use_As_Stages I was responding to with the post you quoted?

If it is the latter, then Your Stage can be much less repetitive than that with the same amount of dev resources spent.

If it is about Your Stage in general, then either we get SDK released (separate topic on its own, I guess I already said how I see things, but I am more than willing to brainstorm that), or we will have a discussion what is more repetitive- one stage chopped into let say four sections or one stage chopped into Your Stage that generates much more variation than than four.

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Kuris said:
This is exactly the problem I have with Your Stage. Every time after finishing a stage all I could remember of the stage was tiles or some of the tiles but not the stage itself and when the next stage came up and I was at the finish line all I could remember was those same tiles that were in the previous stage. And this made me feel like I'm driving the same stage over and over again or some sort of variation of that same stage.

I'm not saying it won't, but adding more tiles might not solve this problem after all because you would still remember the tiles or more likely some of the tiles but yet again not the actual stage (at least I can't). Unless there is like gazillion different tiles and some sort of limit how many times the same tile can be used in a single rally or even for the same stage. And even then it might not be enough, because even though D4's generated stages 'feel' repetitive and same it might be just an illusion and the stages are quite different from each other. It's just how the brain remembers things and puts it all together. At least in my case, I'm sure there are a lot of people who feel differently.
This is how I feel about it. I like that it keeps you on your toes but it doesn't feel like you're driving through a real place. I don't know if adding more tiles would really fix that completely.

Another BIG issue I feel that it has currently is that there are only 2 different 'types' of terrain per location. There's a forest bit, and an open bit. That's it. It's just not enough, and if there are any more variations currently implemented I certainly haven't been able to spot them; they're just not distinct enough. One of the reasons Sweet Lamb in DR feels like a real place is the landscape has lots of small variations as there would be in real life, as opposed to just "Forest Part" and "Field Part."

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I think my biggest issue with the tiles is that I know in DR that an Australian hairpin left will always look identical, so the pace notes don't matter. And this is exactly the same problem as DR. I agree the stages feel less special, but the biggest issue to me is that the corners are all so memorable that it's. 

Someone above said that each tile needs variants, not just in scenery, but one that goes up, one that goes down, one that tightens, one that opens, a left and a right mirrored version, a version with a watersplash and one without. I couldn't agree more and this was what I was expecting and, a few hours in having memorised every corner in Wales and realised there are only two forest transitions and finishing tiles (maybe three, been a while since I played), was really disappointed by the lack of variety and the fact that the system just didn't seem to have any more unique kilometres of stage than DR.

And it's this that I feel lied to about. I remember an interview where they said (paraphrasing) "no, we can't remember the corners. A few of the Devs can because they've seen them many times, but you won't". And it feels just as bad as the "Dirt Rally has 6 stages per location" nonsense. Try being honest about these things and maybe we wouldn't be so disappointed and let down. Now yes, I'm overreacting and typical 'first world problem', but I don't think that's asking too much.

I've always liked the openness and willingness to answer questions on here (until the recent radio silence), but I really don't trust Codemasters' marketing as far as I can throw it any more.

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Glad to see your stage in the spot light here, i agree with the people saying more tiles might not solve the problem, i really think if they just changed the scenery for the tiles they have it would make it better.

Im one of those people who also feels after i finish a stage then get on the line to next stage i get deja vu. I would catch myself saying here we go again.

Its funny i enjoyed going to career and driving the same stages over and over, i enjoyed that more than a random your stage. I have stopped playing been 2 months now, with no desire to contunue. 

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For me Dirt Rally stages were the better compromise, Surely because i have always dreamed to drive accurate mythical stages like Ouninpohja, the Col du Turini, Vergasen, Panzerplatte or Sweet Lamb. Even though I was not expecting Dirt Rally to die down that quickly after realease and was expecting a few more locations.

Something that could add more to this type of stages (that you drive again and again) could be variable road conditions.
For exemple if you drive on gravel, you road position could change the amount of gravel you would have to clean (meaning less grip if you start first), you could also sometimes find some big rocks on the middle of the road or some ruts in slow corners etc.
On tarmac in Germany , randomized cuts in corners could bring gravel and mud on the road, or puddles could appear in random places if it's raining.
In Monte Carlo, random ice patches, random snow parts under the trees or even spectators parking along the stage in a random location.
I think it would bring more unpredictability and would feel a lot less like Hillclimb/Time Attack and even more like a rally game.
(Sorry for my horrible english)

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Accro2008 said:
For me Dirt Rally stages were the better compromise, Surely because i have always dreamed to drive accurate mythical stages like Ouninpohja, the Col du Turini, Vergasen, Panzerplatte or Sweet Lamb. Even though I was not expecting Dirt Rally to die down that quickly after realease and was expecting a few more locations.

Something that could add more to this type of stages (that you drive again and again) could be variable road conditions.
For exemple if you drive on gravel, you road position could change the amount of gravel you would have to clean (meaning less grip if you start first), you could also sometimes find some big rocks on the middle of the road or some ruts in slow corners etc.
On tarmac in Germany , randomized cuts in corners could bring gravel and mud on the road, or puddles could appear in random places if it's raining.
In Monte Carlo, random ice patches, random snow parts under the trees or even spectators parking along the stage in a random location.
I think it would bring more unpredictability and would feel a lot less like Hillclimb/Time Attack and even more like a rally game.
(Sorry for my horrible english)

Implementing a Dynamic Weather / Stage system similar to what Pcars2 has would be a great alternative way to add greater longevity and interest for sure. It seems SMS already has the foundation for such a title and based on what they've done so far, they could be the ones to pull it off but, they need to be more focused and finish what they start in general.

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I too am disappointed with how Codies handled the PR and marketing. What they said about your stage and what they actually delivered are nothing alike. It's like saying that you're going to build a Ferrari and what you actually build is a soccer mom's Volvo. Yes, both are cars and have 4 wheels (I hope) but that's about it.

When they first talked about your stage and how amazing it's going to be. The optimist in me was like "Oh yeah, that is going to be awesome! Kudos CM." but the realist in me was more cautious and I was afraid that the whole system is a gimmick, just a bunch of tiles mashed together and we all know how that turned out. - All those millions of routes and almost infinite number of unique stages... Yep.

Maybe my expectations were just too high because of DR being such an amazing game.

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The core problem I think people have with Your Stage is that it ends up feeling dull and bland due to recognizing corners and, more importantly, the courses often don't really feel like roads you'd actually drive along but just an arbitrary course. If there were to be a YS 2.0, I'd hope that it would take a terrain, lay down roads and landmarks in a sensible, realistic manner and then plot an exciting course through that area in order to feel more real and sensible. At the moment, every corner is very recognizable but just as important, on Wales for instance every single corner is either offcamber or has massive bumps or has a rut in it and this can end up being very tiring because it feels like an entire, real-life rally has had its hardest corners and conditions ripped out and compressed into a single short stage in the game, which definitely isn't the real rallying experience. I don't know if that just comes down to the devs not having enough time to make less harsh versions of tiles or them having the Dark Souls thing happen where they honestly think that difficulty = quality.

I still really do enjoy Dirt 4, and I hope they keep working on Your Stage and don't just go back to the classic system of making stages, but there are some core design decisions that have me very puzzled.

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Kuris said:
I too am disappointed with how Codies handled the PR and marketing. What they said about your stage and what they actually delivered are nothing alike. It's like saying that you're going to build a Ferrari and what you actually build is a soccer mom's Volvo. Yes, both are cars and have 4 wheels (I hope) but that's about it.

When they first talked about your stage and how amazing it's going to be. The optimist in me was like "Oh yeah, that is going to be awesome! Kudos CM." but the realist in me was more cautious and I was afraid that the whole system is a gimmick, just a bunch of tiles mashed together and we all know what that turned out. - All those millions of routes and almost infinite number of unique stages... Yep.

Maybe my expectations were just too high because of DR being such an amazing game.
This exactly is how i was when i heard about d4, i knew i shouldnt pre order but did it anyway because my brain said, dude they made Dr this has to be better and generated staged yes please, not to mention the people who apparently were picked to play this game early clearly dont ever memorize anything or just didn't play for more than 3 hours. 

I was already seeing the flaws 3 hours in and it only got worse the more i drove. 

Pc2 RX is pretty damn good id like to see SMS do a rally game now. 

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Mystx24 said:
Kuris said:
I too am disappointed with how Codies handled the PR and marketing. What they said about your stage and what they actually delivered are nothing alike. It's like saying that you're going to build a Ferrari and what you actually build is a soccer mom's Volvo. Yes, both are cars and have 4 wheels (I hope) but that's about it.

When they first talked about your stage and how amazing it's going to be. The optimist in me was like "Oh yeah, that is going to be awesome! Kudos CM." but the realist in me was more cautious and I was afraid that the whole system is a gimmick, just a bunch of tiles mashed together and we all know what that turned out. - All those millions of routes and almost infinite number of unique stages... Yep.

Maybe my expectations were just too high because of DR being such an amazing game.
This exactly is how i was when i heard about d4, i knew i shouldnt pre order but did it anyway because my brain said, dude they made Dr this has to be better and generated staged yes please, not to mention the people who apparently were picked to play this game early clearly dont ever memorize anything or just didn't play for more than 3 hours. 

I was already seeing the flaws 3 hours in and it only got worse the more i drove. 

Pc2 RX is pretty damn good id like to see SMS do a rally game now. 
I have PC2 on PC and nobody play  RX mode online for some reason... 
I like RX in PC2 too but the grip levels are too high thats why i guess its not popular in online..
About DIRT 4 is not that bad but become boring soon and online is dead since release.. Dirt rally is better game
I dont think Dirt 4 can be recoved with any "shocking" DLC , i belive codies must go on and release probably any new Grid - Toca game or any new concept in cooperation with evolution studios devs..

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PC2 WRX grip is not too high... If you tune your car accordly! (default setups are so "wonky" :/ )
About Dirt 4... Is not that bad, is abandoned! I still hope that Codies do some kind of magic to bring the game a new shine.

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PC2 tires are super responsive to air-pressure settings so one can actually affect the grip-levels quite a lot by raising the air-pressure alone. Some cars are said to have the default pressures set too low to begin with but, the suspensions are also super soft with little to no ARB applied so it's worth experimenting with.  I think PC2 RallyX is currently the best option outside of the MP aspect being high priority.

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Re your stage, the first time anyone tries this sort of stuff it is bound to not be so good.

For me it's great that codies chose to take a risk and innovate and to offer this feature and I really hope they get the chance to refine it and make it better for their next game.

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I think a mix of both types of stages will be awesome, I think that the tiles are real stages, so you have:
DiRT Rally length location:
2x Wales
2x Sweden
Montecarlo
Germany
Finland
Spain
Greece
Michigan
Australia
You have 11 DR Styles locations, and you make tiles from them and you have also 11 YS Locations.With all that locations and some more (3 or 4) DiRT Rally 2.0 would be a serial killer

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