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Codies, what is this?
Do you have any idea of what's going on in the real world? Where do you get your information? In what world does the Honda engine currently stand where you think they stand? Are you watching the races?
I was hoping to finally start a career in McLaren, because I'm not a masochist and I was hoping that Codies would eventually update the Honda engine to be below Renault, but above Sauber's, which is where they actually stand in the real world. But nope, can't have that apparently.
Oh well, here's to another 2 months of waiting until (if) Codemasters decides to actually use real world data for their "performance updates".

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You're very optimistic if you think that Honda is above any other current F1 engine, including Sauber's almost 2 year old Ferrari.

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Ho3n3r said:
You're very optimistic if you think that Honda is above any other current F1 engine, including Sauber's almost 2 year old Ferrari.
Oh, I'm sure of it, all I have to do is look at actual results, and not media stories and quips from Eric Boullier.

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I can't believe that they didn't even touch in Mclaren's performance. They are still bottom of the grid fighting with Sauber in this new patch! What is this??Have you guys at Codemasters seen the real life's Grands Prix?

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The cars still start with their Australia specs. If anything the update is a bit ridiculous for the balance at the start of the season as it makes Williams much weaker than they should be in Melbourne.

The problem doesn't lie with the Honda engine's starting performance, but rather with the fact that the upgrades are equal, which isn't going to change in this game. Just focus your upgrades on the engine as you were before.

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Their problem is coming late to the party and going through a complete redesign during the process.

The Ferrari engine from last year seemed for a lot of this season to still be producing more power, and thats an engine getting no development. Now it's hard to tell as Sauber haven't had much to invest in the rest of the car. But it's definitely behind the Other 3 manufacturers.

If not for a decent looking chassis, a preference for running relatively high aero, and two quality drivers they'd have nowhere near the 20 something points they have even now. 

McLaren chassis/aero or whatever they coded maybe needs a bump. But I don't know if I would put the Honda ahead of anything yet.


I hope the Honda is spot on next year for the TR and then maybe Red Bull in 19 get a good factory engine partner and we have 3 teams really fighting for everything.




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Tiovon said:
Ho3n3r said:
You're very optimistic if you think that Honda is above any other current F1 engine, including Sauber's almost 2 year old Ferrari.
Oh, I'm sure of it, all I have to do is look at actual results, and not media stories and quips from Eric Boullier.

Honda is the worst engine, above NONE. The only thing getting them up the field is their aero, which is doing a hell of a lot, but that engine is about as useless as a boat anchor, Codemasters have gotten it correct

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The Mclaren is as fast as the Sauber in the speed traps in real life while at the same time running more downforce than the Saubers. That proves that the Honda is ahead of the Ferrari engine in the Sauber.

I'm with Tiovon on this. The fact that they haven't updated the Mclaren (which is the team that has improved most as the season has gone on) is frankly ridiculous. They need to put the Honda engine in between the Renault and Sauber engines. That will then put them in the correct position (about equal to Haas and Toro Rosso) on the overall chart. I'm honestly surprised that they haven't updated them since they're the most obvious improvement this year.

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The Mclaren is as fast as the Sauber in the speed traps in real life while at the same time running more downforce than the Saubers. That proves that the Honda is ahead of the Ferrari engine in the Sauber.

I'm with Tiovon on this. The fact that they haven't updated the Mclaren (which is the team that has improved most as the season has gone on) is frankly ridiculous. They need to put the Honda engine in between the Renault and Sauber engines. That will then put them in the correct position (about equal to Haas and Toro Rosso) on the overall chart. I'm honestly surprised that they haven't updated them since they're the most obvious improvement this year.
It is now. It wasn't at the start of the season, which the game is still intending to model as otherwise career mode would be broken. The only problem is the overly simple R&D table - it just has upgrades that no teams had at all at the start of the season and they're all equal, when they should've expanded it with upgrades that some teams and engine suppliers have from the get-go and others haven't. This would've also allowed for tweaks to the starting reliability, as the early season McLaren is simply much too reliable in the game.

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I think we cannot discuss about performances only, but results in the game. The new chart might be ok on the high side but if that turns into a Fer/Merc, Red Bull and Force India every time with 8 drivers in this order is not realistic. At the moment in the game McLaren is not anywhere near to compete for Q3. 

Red Bulls cannot finish higher than 3rd place (unless crazy combinations)

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The thing is: their chassis in the game is nowhere near as good as it should be, compared to their performances in real life. Engine is terrible, but even still, they can reach Q3 quite often due to their good aero package. So why in the performance charts Mclaren don't have a good Aero/Chassis ? Have a look at their performance at the Singapore GP in real life and then compare it with the game at the same track and you'll see why this thread is important.

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Yes the engine is terrible. But it's not THAT terrible. Their chassis should be improved slightly but it should still be behind Red Bull to balance the power improvement that SHOULD be applied.

Coffer said:

It is now. It wasn't at the start of the season, which the game is still intending to model as otherwise career mode would be broken. The only problem is the overly simple R&D table - it just has upgrades that no teams had at all at the start of the season and they're all equal, when they should've expanded it with upgrades that some teams and engine suppliers have from the get-go and others haven't. This would've also allowed for tweaks to the starting reliability, as the early season McLaren is simply much too reliable in the game.
The game is intended to model the performance in based on where each team is at the point in time when the patch is released. They've done that since 2015.
Sure, if it gave Mclaren a bigger bonus per engine upgrade than the other teams then that would be absolutely fine having them start where they are now. But each team gets the same bonus completely negating any upgrade you get making it, on the whole, pointless to play them.

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This games lacks of options and customization. It's not the Codemasters but the F1 governor body...

Every major sports games has licenses but some sort of editor.

Team performances should be editable...

I'm not talking about drivers and transferts...

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sirio994 said:

Team performances should be editable...
This. This right here would solve all the performance issues. Just putting this would mean they don't even have to bother with a performance update since we could just do it ourselves. Could even continue past season 10 as we could just set it to where each team was at the end.

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sirio994 said:

Team performances should be editable...
This. This right here would solve all the performance issues. Just putting this would mean they don't even have to bother with a performance update since we could just do it ourselves. Could even continue past season 10 as we could just set it to where each team was at the end.
This game has a short life. The release date is in august and the season ends in november.

An editor would give us the opportunity to change teams performances, why not even replace drivers to make it ar least playable when the next season begins...

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The Mclaren is as fast as the Sauber in the speed traps in real life while at the same time running more downforce than the Saubers. That proves that the Honda is ahead of the Ferrari engine in the Sauber.

I'm with Tiovon on this. The fact that they haven't updated the Mclaren (which is the team that has improved most as the season has gone on) is frankly ridiculous. They need to put the Honda engine in between the Renault and Sauber engines. That will then put them in the correct position (about equal to Haas and Toro Rosso) on the overall chart. I'm honestly surprised that they haven't updated them since they're the most obvious improvement this year.

You contradict yourself, you say that the Honda is equal with the Ferrari in speed traps, but have more downforce, more downforce can also be an advantage for some tracks and speed. That aero kit does a hell of a lot for McLaren, the real test with be at the upcoming rounds, Austin, Mexico, Brazil. If they aren't on pace, then the aero is doing the work

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sirio994 said:
sirio994 said:

Team performances should be editable...
This. This right here would solve all the performance issues. Just putting this would mean they don't even have to bother with a performance update since we could just do it ourselves. Could even continue past season 10 as we could just set it to where each team was at the end.
This game has a short life. The release date is in august and the season ends in november.

An editor would give us the opportunity to change teams performances, why not even replace drivers to make it ar least playable when the next season begins...
Of course they won't do that though. This whole series is geared toward making sure each rendition is outdated enough by the time the new season starts to assure the majority won't want to keep playing it and will want to buy the new one. Sadly.

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mceci1 said:
The Mclaren is as fast as the Sauber in the speed traps in real life while at the same time running more downforce than the Saubers. That proves that the Honda is ahead of the Ferrari engine in the Sauber.

I'm with Tiovon on this. The fact that they haven't updated the Mclaren (which is the team that has improved most as the season has gone on) is frankly ridiculous. They need to put the Honda engine in between the Renault and Sauber engines. That will then put them in the correct position (about equal to Haas and Toro Rosso) on the overall chart. I'm honestly surprised that they haven't updated them since they're the most obvious improvement this year.

You contradict yourself, you say that the Honda is equal with the Ferrari in speed traps, but have more downforce, more downforce can also be an advantage for some tracks and speed. That aero kit does a hell of a lot for McLaren, the real test with be at the upcoming rounds, Austin, Mexico, Brazil. If they aren't on pace, then the aero is doing the work
My point was that even while running more downforce they have the same top speed as the Saubers. In other words, if they were to run the same downforce setting as the Saubers then the Mclaren's would actually be faster than them in a straight line meaning the Honda is more powerful than the Ferrari unit Sauber are using. Honda should be in the gap between Renault and Sauber on the powertrain chart.
On the overall chart they should be 7th, slightly ahead of Toro Rosso and Haas.

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mceci1 said:
The Mclaren is as fast as the Sauber in the speed traps in real life while at the same time running more downforce than the Saubers. That proves that the Honda is ahead of the Ferrari engine in the Sauber.

I'm with Tiovon on this. The fact that they haven't updated the Mclaren (which is the team that has improved most as the season has gone on) is frankly ridiculous. They need to put the Honda engine in between the Renault and Sauber engines. That will then put them in the correct position (about equal to Haas and Toro Rosso) on the overall chart. I'm honestly surprised that they haven't updated them since they're the most obvious improvement this year.

You contradict yourself, you say that the Honda is equal with the Ferrari in speed traps, but have more downforce, more downforce can also be an advantage for some tracks and speed. That aero kit does a hell of a lot for McLaren, the real test with be at the upcoming rounds, Austin, Mexico, Brazil. If they aren't on pace, then the aero is doing the work
My point was that even while running more downforce they have the same top speed as the Saubers. In other words, if they were to run the same downforce setting as the Saubers then the Mclaren's would actually be faster than them in a straight line meaning the Honda is more powerful than the Ferrari unit Sauber are using. Honda should be in the gap between Renault and Sauber on the powertrain chart.
On the overall chart they should be 7th, slightly ahead of Toro Rosso and Haas.

You have to account for the fact the Sauber is a pig and therefore they can't get the same kind of exit speeds as the McLaren, so they could be equal at the speed traps and still much slower overall. I don't think many disagree about where the team should be placed but it needs a higher rating for everything other than engine, it's overall bar should be in or just below the midfield, but does the game have the ability to have a team be much better on one style of circuit than another as in real life?

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  Honda should be in the gap between Renault and Sauber on the powertrain chart.
On the overall chart they should be 7th, slightly ahead of Toro Rosso and Haas.
one sentence they should be between Renault engine and Sauber (last years ferrari) engine ...
then  in the next sentence they should be above the Renault engine and (current) Ferrari engine..
LOL
the renault engine in the Redbull, Renault and Toro Rosso cars ARE THE SAME engine
so putting the honda engine power above Toro Rosso, would put it above the Renault and Red Bull teams... and no person on the planet would
agree that is factual.  Even less people than NONE would believe its more powerful than this years Ferrari engine.

the Honda engine is garbage, they get passed like they are driving with the handbreak on when on straights.
the only reason they are zippy in corners is because of the chassis.
Can it beat Sauber current engine... sure that's in the realm of believable.

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Tiovon said:
Codies, what is this?
Do you have any idea of what's going on in the real world? Where do you get your information? In what world does the Honda engine currently stand where you think they stand? Are you watching the races?
I was hoping to finally start a career in McLaren, because I'm not a masochist and I was hoping that Codies would eventually update the Honda engine to be below Renault, but above Sauber's, which is where they actually stand in the real world. But nope, can't have that apparently.
Oh well, here's to another 2 months of waiting until (if) Codemasters decides to actually use real world data for their "performance updates".

Don't start a career with McLaren. They didn't fix the teammate performance bug.

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Yes the engine is terrible. But it's not THAT terrible. Their chassis should be improved slightly but it should still be behind Red Bull to balance the power improvement that SHOULD be applied.

Coffer said:

It is now. It wasn't at the start of the season, which the game is still intending to model as otherwise career mode would be broken. The only problem is the overly simple R&D table - it just has upgrades that no teams had at all at the start of the season and they're all equal, when they should've expanded it with upgrades that some teams and engine suppliers have from the get-go and others haven't. This would've also allowed for tweaks to the starting reliability, as the early season McLaren is simply much too reliable in the game.
The game is intended to model the performance in based on where each team is at the point in time when the patch is released. They've done that since 2015.
Sure, if it gave Mclaren a bigger bonus per engine upgrade than the other teams then that would be absolutely fine having them start where they are now. But each team gets the same bonus completely negating any upgrade you get making it, on the whole, pointless to play them.
And they've finally realized that that model is a mistake, hence why the starting point of the teams is exactly the same as before. It was ridiculous in 2016 and completely broke the immersion.

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