"Balanced Medium Traction Control"

[lolschrauber 2]

Jockmcbaird said:

no1freak said:

The thing is, that if you can handle the TC off, you ARE ALWAYS FASTER than the one with Medium. 

For or one reason, nothing is going to lower your power on curve exit when your wheels spin. Also on the curbs. Full throttle = full power. With tc on or medium: half power. 

The only „advantage“ Driving with TC is, that you’re car won’t spin. But tc off is always faster. And that is how it is in this game and always was. 

what a load of rubbish.... having TC off has not always been faster. ive played since 2010 and there was many a conversation had about the fact that medium traction gave many people the best of both worlds. i remember when 2011 was coming out there was talk of weight penalties being added to those that used medium and full TC. i have raced with many people that can race without TC but would still use medium traction as they could ultimately be more competitive with those that used TC. this game has been the same.... i look forward to the update and hope they have made it slower to use the assists, there is then an incentive to turn them off.

Yeah, medium TC gives you an advantage with setups if done right

[SgtKubica 1]

lolschrauber said:

Jockmcbaird said:

no1freak said:

The thing is, that if you can handle the TC off, you ARE ALWAYS FASTER than the one with Medium. 

For or one reason, nothing is going to lower your power on curve exit when your wheels spin. Also on the curbs. Full throttle = full power. With tc on or medium: half power. 

The only „advantage“ Driving with TC is, that you’re car won’t spin. But tc off is always faster. And that is how it is in this game and always was. 

what a load of rubbish.... having TC off has not always been faster. ive played since 2010 and there was many a conversation had about the fact that medium traction gave many people the best of both worlds. i remember when 2011 was coming out there was talk of weight penalties being added to those that used medium and full TC. i have raced with many people that can race without TC but would still use medium traction as they could ultimately be more competitive with those that used TC. this game has been the same.... i look forward to the update and hope they have made it slower to use the assists, there is then an incentive to turn them off.

Yeah, medium TC gives you an advantage with setups if done right

Do remember playing with a pad with little/no assists is extremely difficult. If Codemasters would rather see people buying a wheel but living out on the streets with no food and no bed, in poverty, so be it. But I'm not spending hundreds of pounds just to be 3-4 tenths quicker, and I don't expect others to either. Please remember we are not royalty @F1Support, we are normal humans living normal lives whers we work, eat, quarrel and die. (In other words, a lot of us don't have much money).

[LilBrown47 6]

FRACTURED said:

If its easier AND faster to race without assists it begs the question...why do people use the assists?

....or even why on almost every F1 game by Codies assists users dominated the TT leaderboards over and over again?!

;)

[FRACTURED 30]

SgtKubica said:

Do remember playing with a pad with little/no assists is extremely difficult. 

Its not really all that difficult. It takes a week to get used to the fact that the triggers aren't on/off switches and learn how to correctly apply pressure. 
The hard bit is getting the consistency and the easiest way to do it is just turn all assists off and never go back next time they release a game. Switching from Full or Medium TCS halfway through games life will cause problems as you know what your pace is with the assists and if you aren't beating them straight away you'll likely just turn them back on again out of frustration

Whereas starting a new game with No Assists and sticking with it you will see where you need to improve compared to the times of whoever you race with and you'll increase your ceiling.

This is an admittedly stupid comparison but an F1 driver doesn't jump in the car and pull out of the pits by mashing the throttle pedal as far back as it will go...
Guys need to have more faith in themselves and take the time to learn it. 

[LilBrown47 6]

no1freak said:

LilBrown47 said:

No assists should always be faster, especially as irl the drivers don't have any "assists" to help them rustle their F1 cars around the track, that's a no brainer.

Also, why should someone that paid time and effort into becoming a no assists driver be penalized for not using TC?

Isn't the reason to have TC in a racing game to make you drive on rails?

Or should it make you magically just as fast as someone that drives without it?

If so, where's the sense of competition here?

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/s

The thing is, that if you can handle the TC off, you ARE ALWAYS FASTER than the one with Medium. 

For or one reason, nothing is going to lower your power on curve exit when your wheels spin. Also on the curbs. Full throttle = full power. With tc on or medium: half power. 

The only „advantage“ Driving with TC is, that you’re car won’t spin. But tc off is always faster. And that is how it is in this game and always was. 

Your hypothesis might work in certain circumstances, on one lap pace for instance, though on a whole race distance (especially in bad weather conditions) the clear answer is mostly: "No".

Why that is the case you indirectly concluded yourself already, it's because of consistency.

Consistency > Pace

Whereas a no assists driver needs to be like a robot to keep posting fast lap times over and over again, the assists user simply uses the brake and throttle paddles as a "on / off switch" whilst being (almost all the time and or sometimes) faster due to having less chances of making mistakes.

Throughout my "personal experience" (i conducted a series of tests revolving around the balance of assists with a bunch of friends of mine together on each F1 game so far) only F1 2013 had the balance of assists vs. no assists right, that game forced you to turn off the assists to stay competitive unlike its successors that got more or less worse with each following title to further amplify the goal of catering towards casuals in order to supposedly increase the sales.

Try it out yourself mate.

Do around a 100 laps (we did 300 each just to get more accurate data on total) on practice session without any assists on and do the maths to get your best possible delta times out of that run, afterwards repeat the same test but with medium TC enabled.

You'll will undoubtedly find out that medium TC is extremely close to no assists driving and makes a mediocre driver suddenly become "fast enough" to compete on a high level and if that mediocre driver gets a boost you can already imagine what would happen for someone who actually knows how to race, that assist will give that "pro" fella at least a boost of around 6 - 8 tenths over their no assists delta, which also explains why TT still is almost exclusively populated by assists runners despite those people clearly being able to drive without them......

Now i'm seriously out of here, gotta do me some sandwiches, have a good one!

:)

 

[auroboros 0]

What i get from all this is that pad users have loved the ability to use medium traction control to enjoy racing with proper speed through corners with the grip required to complete a race without flashbacks. I also see the other side of the argument as valid too. Thus I think league racing should enforce no assists for their sessions. I have no idea if that is possible because I dont touch multiplayer. If this isn't possible then codemasters have gone the wrong route here.
My bet is that a hell of a lot of people who raved about this year's handling model will quickly change their opinion and start to dispise the game all together because it is a fundamental part of their prior enjoyment if the patch has nerfed it so much. Will have to wait and see when all platforms have the patch, particularly consoles which are pretty much pad users.

[FRACTURED 30]

auroboros said:

 Thus I think league racing should enforce no assists for their sessions. I have no idea if that is possible because I dont touch multiplayer. If this isn't possible then codemasters have gone the wrong route here.

Lobby host can lock out assists. Great for league's. Not always great for Custom lobbies. Often guys couldn't see what assists were banned in the lobby search list, they'd join, realize they don't have their assists and either leave and find a new lobby, or drive like a complete tool trying to ruin it for everyone else whilst throwing abusive message and negative rep at people :)
They won't have nerfed it a lot, but hopefully enough to give people reason to at least give NA a try, even on pad. 
Over the course of a race they should gain back some of any perceived time lost, through being artificially consistent.

[echo321 0]

tbh, the medium tc almost feels like full tc. It is not possible to spin out with medium tc. No wheelspin in gears 1 and 2 and above there barely isn't any even with tc off.
And yeah, i felt like tc off is faster, tested it at spa, almost 0.4 seconds difference in favour of tc off for me.
Ah, and a questin: is it just me or do you lose not as much time driving on the curbs/kerbs with tc off? I'm new to tc off so i don't have thaat much experience...

and btw, tc off really isn't an issue with a pad. It's more about getting used to not go full throttle out of the slow corners.

[robin8f 29]

Are you joking? Medium traction control is ridiculously overpowered. It's much faster than no traction control while it should be slower than no traction control, it needs to be nerfed immensely.

[TAKIINOUE 5]

I see no reason why anything should change. My car acts like a drunk uncle when I remove TC. Even in a straight line! I use a pad with X-Box One. I also have no spare fingers to use manual gears. I need those for DRS and the menu to change fuel mixture, which I do regularly during a race.

 And for those who are saying it's natural that having TC (and other assists) off would be faster, I'm not so sure the history of F1 backs you up on this point. Williams put a load of assists on their cars in the early 90s and they went from a good team to total domination. Even Schumacher preferred to use the technology available when it was going to be banned in 2003 (I think it actually did get banned, then reinstated, then banned again).

 And having driven automatic and manual geared cars in the real world, there is NO difference in speed between the two. A car doesn't become slower because it's an automatic LOL. 

[robin8f 29]

TAKIINOUE said:

I see no reason why anything should change. My car acts like a drunk uncle when I remove TC. Even in a straight line! I use a pad with X-Box One. I also have no spare fingers to use manual gears. I need those for DRS and the menu to change fuel mixture, which I do regularly during a race.

 And for those who are saying it's natural that having TC (and other assists) off would be faster, I'm not so sure the history of F1 backs you up on this point. Williams put a load of assists on their cars in the early 90s and they went from a good team to total domination. Even Schumacher preferred to use the technology available when it was going to be banned in 2003 (I think it actually did get banned, then reinstated, then banned again).

 And having driven automatic and manual geared cars in the real world, there is NO difference in speed between the two. A car doesn't become slower because it's an automatic LOL. 

No traction control is perfectly drivable with a controller, manual gears as well, if you don't like the current button layout you can change it to whatever you like. I understand your point that in real life traction control was faster than no traction control, but of you want that realism then my logical response is: there is no traction control anymore in real life, so why should it be there in the game? It's in the game to make it easier for the casual players to race, without the need to learn how to drive without traction control. The disadvantage for using traction control should then be that that would be slower than no traction control. Either learn to drive without and be faster or don't invest the time but be slower.

[TAKIINOUE 5]

I already have a custom button layout, and can see no real way to use manual gears. I do use the menus a lot, and DRS. It's hard to explain over the Internet, but it would be extremely awkward to use any more buttons. I even have trouble keeping it on the road when my engineer tells me he has an alternative strategy lol.

 But once you release a game (as Codies have with F1 2017), it is not then fair to ruin it for those of us who use TC. If they wanted to do this, then they should have done it from the start. Like I said in another post, if it aint broke don't fix it. 

[robin8f 29]

Like I said in another post, if it aint broke don't fix it. 

Well it is broken, because medium traction control is extremely overpowered.

[Coffer 122]

lolschrauber said:

no1freak said:

The thing is, that if you can handle the TC off, you ARE ALWAYS FASTER than the one with Medium. 

For or one reason, nothing is going to lower your power on curve exit when your wheels spin. Also on the curbs. Full throttle = full power. With tc on or medium: half power. 

The only „advantage“ Driving with TC is, that you’re car won’t spin. But tc off is always faster. And that is how it is in this game and always was. 

I doubt you're always faster. Especially rain can be hard as balls sometimes.

I reckon if you're really good at using the throttle, you should still be faster. It was absolutely no contest in 2016 as even with the extreme power of the medium TC, you'd gain more time through drifting and generally inducing a bit of controllable oversteer. Up to a certain point medium is more comfortable for sure, but once you get close to WR pace, sliding is just about better.

[robin8f 29]

Coffer said:

lolschrauber said:

no1freak said:

The thing is, that if you can handle the TC off, you ARE ALWAYS FASTER than the one with Medium. 

For or one reason, nothing is going to lower your power on curve exit when your wheels spin. Also on the curbs. Full throttle = full power. With tc on or medium: half power. 

The only „advantage“ Driving with TC is, that you’re car won’t spin. But tc off is always faster. And that is how it is in this game and always was. 

I doubt you're always faster. Especially rain can be hard as balls sometimes.

I reckon if you're really good at using the throttle, you should still be faster. It was absolutely no contest in 2016 as even with the extreme power of the medium TC, you'd gain more time through drifting and generally inducing a bit of controllable oversteer. Up to a certain point medium is more comfortable for sure, but once you get close to WR pace, sliding is just about better.

Medium traction control was clearly faster than no traction control in F1 2016.

[Coffer 122]

robin8f said:

Coffer said:

lolschrauber said:

no1freak said:

The thing is, that if you can handle the TC off, you ARE ALWAYS FASTER than the one with Medium. 

For or one reason, nothing is going to lower your power on curve exit when your wheels spin. Also on the curbs. Full throttle = full power. With tc on or medium: half power. 

The only „advantage“ Driving with TC is, that you’re car won’t spin. But tc off is always faster. And that is how it is in this game and always was. 

I doubt you're always faster. Especially rain can be hard as balls sometimes.

I reckon if you're really good at using the throttle, you should still be faster. It was absolutely no contest in 2016 as even with the extreme power of the medium TC, you'd gain more time through drifting and generally inducing a bit of controllable oversteer. Up to a certain point medium is more comfortable for sure, but once you get close to WR pace, sliding is just about better.

Medium traction control was clearly faster than no traction control in F1 2016.

Up to a certain point. If you're good enough to consistently induce slides correctly to the point where you're challenging for WRs, it's slower in the rain. That's how I got one.

The slides were much, much more OP. If anything, the only thing that limited them was the Mercedes being absolutely awful to drive. With "equal" cars, the Haas was much faster than the Mercedes, something which still seems to apply in this game.

[SgtKubica 1]

robin8f said:

Coffer said:

lolschrauber said:

no1freak said:

The thing is, that if you can handle the TC off, you ARE ALWAYS FASTER than the one with Medium. 

For or one reason, nothing is going to lower your power on curve exit when your wheels spin. Also on the curbs. Full throttle = full power. With tc on or medium: half power. 

The only „advantage“ Driving with TC is, that you’re car won’t spin. But tc off is always faster. And that is how it is in this game and always was. 

I doubt you're always faster. Especially rain can be hard as balls sometimes.

I reckon if you're really good at using the throttle, you should still be faster. It was absolutely no contest in 2016 as even with the extreme power of the medium TC, you'd gain more time through drifting and generally inducing a bit of controllable oversteer. Up to a certain point medium is more comfortable for sure, but once you get close to WR pace, sliding is just about better.

Medium traction control was clearly faster than no traction control in F1 2016.

No way! I, myself used to be a no traction control runner and I was bleedin' quick. When I tried medium traction, I will admit it was a lot easier, but I was 4-6 tenths off my best lap times with no TC. The same applies with this game. There is no issue here. I am faster than the guys I race with and most of them run medium TC (don't say they are slow because we are all in the top 800 on most tracks in time trial).

[AlexF1RT 0]

robin8f said:

Are you joking? Medium traction control is ridiculously overpowered. It's much faster than no traction control while it should be slower than no traction control, it needs to be nerfed immensely.

Medium TC is not so fast as it was before patch 1.9. I tested this in trial mode and I am slower than before. They made few adjustments for medium TC so ...if "it needs to be nerfed immensely" as you say , this means Full TC assists will be very fast than medium or TC off.

[KevRusski 0]

With regard to people being lazy, not spending enough time etc.  Some of you guys need to be in your fourties, have 2 very young children, be getting up at 6:30am to travel to work, not finishing putting the kids to bed until 7:30pm then spending an hour doing daily jobs before you sit down for the first time in the day.

I bet those people struggle to muster the concentration to be at least quick in TT (top 10%).

I`m not talking about myself here by the way......whistles

[Coffer 122]

KevRusski said:

With regard to people being lazy, not spending enough time etc.  Some of you guys need to be in your fourties, have 2 very young children, be getting up at 6:30am to travel to work, not finishing putting the kids to bed until 7:30pm then spending an hour doing daily jobs before you sit down for the first time in the day.

I bet those people struggle to muster the concentration to be at least quick in TT (top 10%).

I`m not talking about myself here by the way......whistles

Even in that situation, the only one stopping you is yourself. I'm similarly busy these days as a result of my job but I could still put in the occasional WR attempt every now and then if I wanted to (which I usually don't as I don't care about TT). Once you're used to it, it doesn't take long to get the sort of concentration that you need in order to do well in TT, and after that, even just an hour a day gives you ample time to set a few decent attempts, especially if you restart as soon as you're way off.

[Armando17 0]

AlexF1RT said:

robin8f said:

Are you joking? Medium traction control is ridiculously overpowered. It's much faster than no traction control while it should be slower than no traction control, it needs to be nerfed immensely.

Medium TC is not so fast as it was before patch 1.9. I tested this in trial mode and I am slower than before. They made few adjustments for medium TC so ...if "it needs to be nerfed immensely" as you say , this means Full TC assists will be very fast than medium or TC off.

What is the difference in terms of time now with TC medium?
2-3 tenths slower than it was before?

[patronas 14]

SgtKubica said:

lolschrauber said:

Jockmcbaird said:

no1freak said:

The thing is, that if you can handle the TC off, you ARE ALWAYS FASTER than the one with Medium. 

For or one reason, nothing is going to lower your power on curve exit when your wheels spin. Also on the curbs. Full throttle = full power. With tc on or medium: half power. 

The only „advantage“ Driving with TC is, that you’re car won’t spin. But tc off is always faster. And that is how it is in this game and always was. 

what a load of rubbish.... having TC off has not always been faster. ive played since 2010 and there was many a conversation had about the fact that medium traction gave many people the best of both worlds. i remember when 2011 was coming out there was talk of weight penalties being added to those that used medium and full TC. i have raced with many people that can race without TC but would still use medium traction as they could ultimately be more competitive with those that used TC. this game has been the same.... i look forward to the update and hope they have made it slower to use the assists, there is then an incentive to turn them off.

Yeah, medium TC gives you an advantage with setups if done right

Do remember playing with a pad with little/no assists is extremely difficult. If Codemasters would rather see people buying a wheel but living out on the streets with no food and no bed, in poverty, so be it. But I'm not spending hundreds of pounds just to be 3-4 tenths quicker, and I don't expect others to either. Please remember we are not royalty @F1Support, we are normal humans living normal lives whers we work, eat, quarrel and die. (In other words, a lot of us don't have much money).

Totally agree well said 

[KevRusski 0]

Coffer said:

KevRusski said:

With regard to people being lazy, not spending enough time etc.  Some of you guys need to be in your fourties, have 2 very young children, be getting up at 6:30am to travel to work, not finishing putting the kids to bed until 7:30pm then spending an hour doing daily jobs before you sit down for the first time in the day.

I bet those people struggle to muster the concentration to be at least quick in TT (top 10%).

I`m not talking about myself here by the way......whistles

Even in that situation, the only one stopping you is yourself. I'm similarly busy these days as a result of my job but I could still put in the occasional WR attempt every now and then if I wanted to (which I usually don't as I don't care about TT). Once you're used to it, it doesn't take long to get the sort of concentration that you need in order to do well in TT, and after that, even just an hour a day gives you ample time to set a few decent attempts, especially if you restart as soon as you're way off.

You are right, I am the only one stopping myself, but thats because I feel getting to bed before im totally knackered, looking after the house and spending as much time with my wife and kids means more to me than conquering this game with no TC. Which most people would think is commendable.

My mistake is not just "doing it" when I am on the game and putting up with being crap for a while. The reason I do this is because I am nearly always very tired by the time I get to sit down and just wanna have some fun and chill. I take your point though...........but only if you take mine haha

[KevRusski 0]

by the way, im not suggesting TC should be quicker than no TC.  I dont think it should be that way.

[Coffer 122]

KevRusski said:

Coffer said:

KevRusski said:

With regard to people being lazy, not spending enough time etc.  Some of you guys need to be in your fourties, have 2 very young children, be getting up at 6:30am to travel to work, not finishing putting the kids to bed until 7:30pm then spending an hour doing daily jobs before you sit down for the first time in the day.

I bet those people struggle to muster the concentration to be at least quick in TT (top 10%).

I`m not talking about myself here by the way......whistles

Even in that situation, the only one stopping you is yourself. I'm similarly busy these days as a result of my job but I could still put in the occasional WR attempt every now and then if I wanted to (which I usually don't as I don't care about TT). Once you're used to it, it doesn't take long to get the sort of concentration that you need in order to do well in TT, and after that, even just an hour a day gives you ample time to set a few decent attempts, especially if you restart as soon as you're way off.

You are right, I am the only one stopping myself, but thats because I feel getting to bed before im totally knackered, looking after the house and spending as much time with my wife and kids means more to me than conquering this game with no TC. Which most people would think is commendable.

My mistake is not just "doing it" when I am on the game and putting up with being crap for a while. The reason I do this is because I am nearly always very tired by the time I get to sit down and just wanna have some fun and chill. I take your point though...........but only if you take mine haha

Yeah it's completely acceptable and understandable, my point is simply that if you want to do it, the option is there and you can use your currently available time for it. It's all down to priorities in the end, and when you've got that little free time, they tend to shift quite drastically, so something like setting good times in TT quickly becomes unimportant.

It still wouldn't hurt to try and get used to it every now and then, even for just 5-10 minutes at a time. The better you are, the more enjoyable these games tend to be. I wouldn't fault you in the slightest if you didn't feel like it though, as I myself, even as a hugely competitive person, have mostly shifted back to reading and playing less competitive games these days since they're a better source of fun and relaxation and require far less effort.