Med TC nerf affected PAD ability to compete in time trials

[JonWood551 0]

The point is that TC should not slow down car more then it should do based on how a realistic traction control system works. Why would one force TC to be  unrealistically slower than no-TC? Does not make any sense. If no-TC gamers want to compete they can still do this in custom lobbies or CM can make special public lobbies without TC. With this artificial nerf of TC this game will only serve a niche market of hardcore gamers.

[lolschrauber 2]

JonWood551 said:

The point is that TC should not slow down car more then it should do based on how a realistic traction control system works. Why would one force TC to be  unrealistically slower than no-TC? Does not make any sense. If no-TC gamers want to compete they can still do this in custom lobbies or CM can make special public lobbies without TC. With this artificial nerf of TC this game will only serve a niche market of hardcore gamers.

They actually can't. Have you tried hosting lobbies with banned assists? Pretty much 75% of people you meet will just quit as soon as they notice.

[emiack76 0]

Lol, ban the assists and nobody wants play anymore. 

[FRACTURED 30]

GavGav983526 said:

It's simple. TC makes a car faster in RL, it should do on the game. Up to people how they want to play the game, TC on or TC off. 

The usual girls whining online moaning about it.

Forget the TT leaderboards, they're just a **** swinging contest

They don't run TC in Formula One these days do they? And I don't ever recall Clarkson, May nor Hammond introducing the Stig with the words "Some say he turns on Traction Control".

Nice sexist comment there too. So who is doing all the whining and Moaning now? 

[JR6492 1]

GavGav983526 said:

It's simple. TC makes a car faster in RL, it should do on the game. Up to people how they want to play the game, TC on or TC off. 

The usual girls whining online moaning about it.

Forget the TT leaderboards, they're just a **** swinging contest

There is no TC in F1 in real life so it’s a moot point.

[pijin 49]

Y’all are practically butthurt snowflakes of the modern generation thinking they are entitled to equality with everyone regardless of whether they possess the skill or commitment to get there on their own.

I hope you guys live in a communist country where they’ll spoon feed your lazy selves whilst you walk around protesting rather than working to earn your keep. But by all means stay out of capitalist nations. You might actually have to work to earn your place in society! Crazy, Right? 

[DauntingConch 0]

GavGav983526 said:

It's simple. TC makes a car faster in RL, it should do on the game. Up to people how they want to play the game, TC on or TC off. 

The usual girls whining online moaning about it.

Forget the TT leaderboards, they're just a **** swinging contest

Silly comment, within the game, the traction options are meant to be an assist, not an advantatage.  The purpose of assists is to make the game more inclusive and accessible so that casual players don't have a huge learning curve before they can be competetive.

Regardless of it being faster in real life, it doesnt exist on the current 2017 cars somaking them faster with TC would be rather daft.

[FRACTURED 30]

GavGav983526 said:

JR6492 said:

GavGav983526 said:

It's simple. TC makes a car faster in RL, it should do on the game. Up to people how they want to play the game, TC on or TC off. 

The usual girls whining online moaning about it.

Forget the TT leaderboards, they're just a **** swinging contest

There is no TC in F1 in real life so it’s a moot point.

But there is in the game, in the form of TC that has been banned since 2008, making it a relevant point.

Listen up Cry baby, they aren't gonna get rid of it because you can't beat your little sister on TT. Yes they should do seperate online lobbies for assists, yes they should do seperate leaderboards on TT for assists, but CM have a bigger audience than you and your physics-defying childish demands.

EDIT: Okay so moaning that you can't beat your little sister when she uses assists is bad, but moaning when you can't beat your own time after the developers implement a change isn't moaning. Okay boss, thanks for clearing that up :)


In the game the main intention of Med TCS is to ASSIST those who for whatever reason are unable to master No Traction, but don't like being bogged down by full TCS. So a new user can pick up the game with all assists on and as they become more proficient, they can turn off various Aids and up the difficulty. The Assists aren't included so that on Day one of release a brand new user can beat 110% AI and go #1 on leaderboards with the exact same time as the other 500,000 users (made up number)

• Automatic Gears to assists those who cannot concentrate enough to work left stick, left trigger, right trigger as well as operate the gears on a pad or wheel, as well as operate Fuel Modes and so on. Physical Limitations may  make this so. Thats fair enough.
•  Full Auto braking for those who cannot tell the difference between the red and green on racing line in game (color blindness perhaps), down to ABS Only for those who cannot help but lock up (or perhaps have hearing impairment and cannot hear the lockup so well). Finally ABS off for those who can modulate the brake either with a pedal or Trigger.
• Full Racing line is there for those who for whatever reason don't know the tracks. Can help users learn the tracks, but is just as likely to hinder them as they just follow the line and don't pay attention to the braking markers or optimal line (Baku...mind the castle...). Can be changed to corners only once a user learns the track a little more to help with braking zones and lining up complex sections.
• Auto Steering for...um...(I can't think of anything to say that won't come across as disrespectful to those who use it. They are at the level of the Teaspoon which was racing on Forza 7...)
• Full Traction Control for those who cannot modulate throttle well, or are using face buttons for accelerate rather than triggers or pedals or anything sensible - can kill exit speed if the TCS recognizes high levels of wheelspin or higher than required steering angles Car will bog down. Medium traction as a stepping stone from Full TCS to No TCS, slightly increased possibility of spinning out and decreased throttle overide so car doesn't bog down so much. Finally, TCS off for those who can modulate throttle and control a slide. Small assist included for pads due to lower fidelity of inputs compared to Wheel.  

 

[FRACTURED 30]

GavGav983526 said:

It doesn't matter why it's there. If its TC, it should work like TC. 

Wanna "assist" someone, do something else, give it another name. Weight penalty, "Aero effect reduction", "Engine cut out", something like that

Let's not defy physics.

Great come back. Stinks of "I can't come up with a legitimate response".

[DauntingConch 0]

Not really. You also have to consider the realism factor. And TC is an advantage. 

Now just for clarity, I'm a non assist player, but I stay away from MP, mainly because it's full of these whiny kid types 

So if I'm offline and wanted to compare or test it, I'd expect to be quicker than TC off. Because that's they way it is/would be if an F1 car had TC.

My point being, all these guys problem isn't the advantage of medium TC, It's that they aren't segregated, so are forced to compete on an uneven playing field.

Use 2 playing fields, rather than defying physics to cripple some on one.

I understand your point, but Codemasters intention is not to make the traction control as it would be in real life, it is intended as an assist to make the game accessible.  It wouldn't make sense from this perspective to make assist faster because that is how it would be in real life.  The game is not a sim, never has been.

You'd kill online if you segregated the assist users from others, so Codemasters are in a position where they need to try and balance these assists as best they can.  Just like the wheel vs pad arguements, the balance between medium TC and none are always going to be hard to get right. 

I also play with no traction or ABS but I'm in a league where the assists are allowed, so having them as balanced as closely as they can be benefits the league in attracting more players, we have 4 leagues with over 75 players now, you wouldn't get this size of league if assists users became segregated.  I've found the balance between medium and no traction pretty good so far and the recent changes hasn't appeared to slow our regular assist users dramatically, we can still both be competetive...

[JR6492 1]

GavGav983526 said:

JR6492 said:

GavGav983526 said:

It's simple. TC makes a car faster in RL, it should do on the game. Up to people how they want to play the game, TC on or TC off. 

The usual girls whining online moaning about it.

Forget the TT leaderboards, they're just a **** swinging contest

There is no TC in F1 in real life so it’s a moot point.

But there is in the game, in the form of TC that has been banned since 2008, making it a relevant point.

Listen up Cry baby, they aren't gonna get rid of it because you can't beat your little sister on TT. Yes they should do seperate online lobbies for assists, yes they should do seperate leaderboards on TT for assists, but CM have a bigger audience than you and your physics-defying childish demands.

Lol “childish demands”... just go on to TT for half an hour and learn to drive with TC off. It’s really not that hard even on a controller.

that has to be one of the most melodramatic responses I’ve seen in a while

[JR6492 1]

GavGav983526 said:

JR6492 said:

GavGav983526 said:

JR6492 said:

GavGav983526 said:

It's simple. TC makes a car faster in RL, it should do on the game. Up to people how they want to play the game, TC on or TC off. 

The usual girls whining online moaning about it.

Forget the TT leaderboards, they're just a **** swinging contest

There is no TC in F1 in real life so it’s a moot point.

But there is in the game, in the form of TC that has been banned since 2008, making it a relevant point.

Listen up Cry baby, they aren't gonna get rid of it because you can't beat your little sister on TT. Yes they should do seperate online lobbies for assists, yes they should do seperate leaderboards on TT for assists, but CM have a bigger audience than you and your physics-defying childish demands.

Lol “childish demands”... just go on to TT for half an hour and learn to drive with TC off. It’s really not that hard even on a controller.

that has to be one of the most melodramatic responses I’ve seen in a while

Erm, I'm sorry to make you look more stupid than you already have done yourself, but just a few posts up there poppet, is a post saying I'm not an assist player.

And to those assist players, don't feel you HAVE to play the game a certain way. Enjoy it how you play. Don't worry about those whining "turn TC off so I can win, waah"

So much melodrama

[IchmachneBarAuf 0]

I may be dumb but I don't see a huge difference in timetrial mode on med traction between before and after the patch.
I'm just astonished they changed the handling model or the effect of certain assists two months after launch and don`t wait for the new game F1 2018 with new leaderboards etc.

As a pad player who drives mostly on weekends only, I'm using the assists with which I'm fastest and can compete online.
How some people here in this thread can feel superior just  because they use less assists than others in a video game is beyond me.

I'd rather have them finally ghosting lapped cars in online modes, have steady rules for open lobbies with contant strict corner cutting enabled f.e. than them balancing the assists during the course of one edition.

[pijin 49]

GavGav983526 said:

JR6492 said:

GavGav983526 said:

It's simple. TC makes a car faster in RL, it should do on the game. Up to people how they want to play the game, TC on or TC off. 

The usual girls whining online moaning about it.

Forget the TT leaderboards, they're just a **** swinging contest

There is no TC in F1 in real life so it’s a moot point.

But there is in the game, in the form of TC that has been banned since 2008, making it a relevant point.

Listen up Cry baby, they aren't gonna get rid of it because you can't beat your little sister on TT. Yes they should do seperate online lobbies for assists, yes they should do seperate leaderboards on TT for assists, but CM have a bigger audience than you and your physics-defying childish demands.

I'm sorry, who told you the TC assists in the game is TC in the form of that which was in F1 pre-2008? I don't remember any post by Codies or anything saying, "If you're utter crap at driving, we have F1 2007 style traction control, so you can be slightly less crap at driving." 

This isn't F1 style traction control. It's the kind of traction control that would be in minivan. The kind that cuts you off at 9/10ths so you never get to 10/10ths or 11/10ths and spin out. It's meant to augment your mediocre skills (and this is simply factual, not an attack on you) so that you can play the game, a task which it achieves very well. It does not, ANYWHERE, say it is performance traction control a la Ferrari road cars and 2000s F1 cars, so quite making up the stuff like "good traction control on road cars and old F1 cars made you faster". That's true, but this isn't that kind of traction control. If you don't want to put in the time to practice and get good at time trial YOU SHOULD BE SLOWER. I don't know why that's so difficult to swallow for you snowflakes.

GavGav983526 said:

pijin said:

Y’all are practically butthurt snowflakes of the modern generation thinking they are entitled to equality with everyone regardless of whether they possess the skill or commitment to get there on their own.

I hope you guys live in a communist country where they’ll spoon feed your lazy selves whilst you walk around protesting rather than working to earn your keep. But by all means stay out of capitalist nations. You might actually have to work to earn your place in society! Crazy, Right? 

What political forum have I mistakenly stumbled on to?

Ha. Funny. But if you actually stopped to think about it, this whole argument is borne out of a subconscious sense of entitlement present in all too many millennial, and impressed upon them by educational systems that promote the "everyone is a winner". Newsflash. Thats not how the world works.

[Finn 0]

GavGav983526 said:

Btw, the cringey millennial educational bullsh1t. Drop it, you don't sound smart, and it's a game ffs. Get a life.

And stop tagging all my factual posts "Disagree", it's pathetic.

I think everyone including yourself could take your advice on it being a game with respect to this argument over the definition of video game traction control. 

[pijin 49]

GavGav983526 said:

Btw, the cringey millennial educational bullsh1t. Drop it, you don't sound smart, and it's a game ffs. Get a life.

And stop tagging all my factual posts "Disagree", it's pathetic.

Ha! That's funny, because what you just said exemplifies the same "millennial bullsh!t" again! Do you know why I disagree with your posts? Because I disagree! Shocking right? That people can have an opinion other than your own? It's not personal, I just disagree with what you said (and btw, those are all opinions, or half-facts).

This is what I mean when I say snowflake. You freak the heck out when someone disagrees with you because you are a closed-minded individual who thinks their always right. If you can't learn to respect opposing opinions, or at least debate them respectfully, then your life is going to be miserable. 

It is Traction Control on an F1 car, and we know how Traction Control works on an F1 car. It's not a different TC because you say it is. It is TC, TC makes F1 cars faster, simple as that.

Don't know why you are calling me a snowflake btw (I take it a snowflake is someone who doesn't play the game the way YOU want them to play it) I have already stated I am a non TC user. Someone else who can't read.

Tbh, on your last point, it's more borne out of spending decent money and wanting a fair crack of the whip. What my point is, is  that if you want to use TC for a close game, do it with other TCers, instead of mixing it with non TCers and basically having whoever loses moan on here like a child.

And in addition to that, if assist users are gonna be penalised to bring their pace in to line, incorrectly implementing TC is not the way to do it.

Again, TC developed by F1 teams for F1 cars makes it faster. There are different kinds of traction control, and for different purposes. Unfortunately, the purpose its used for in this game is similar to the way its used in road cars to keep people from losing control. Just because this game has F1 cars and traction control doesn't mean it has to replicate the exact same traction control used for F1 cars. That's not even close to being a valid extrapolation since technically no one knows how traction control would affect a 2017 F1 car since no 2017 F1 car has TC. 

[CaptainAust 1]

Forgive me if this has already been said but wouldn't thr best result be having The offine career mode have the option of FULL, MED, MED (ONLINE) and OFF. and the online racing only having FULL, MED (ONLINE) and OFF???

I have a wheel and only just went to TC off this year. I raced one season on Med TC PS4(patch 1.6).  I switched the TC back to Med after 1.9 to see what all the fuss of the change was. Fair enough i get that it has to be slower than TC off, im happy with that, but the overall handling is way off now. The fast chicanes at Melbourne are a gamble now with way to much understear and the front end getting light as you go into the corner (its nothing to do with my driving style by the way, nothing has changed pre or post patch,  with tc off or med  i drive consistent). It feels like codies couldn't make the car slow enough on corner exit to make the necessary time gap difference between the 2 so they've changed the entry too. Im pretty sure changing the TC shouldn't result in understear via a light front end, any changes made should be felt in the rear.

As i said,, can't we just have the online offine option for MED TC and when playing online only the online model? Surely that will make everyone happy. 

[DEECO 3]

Milanpop said:

Why didn`t they just added +0.3, or whatever, sec for assists on in TT? Why change the handling all together?

This is the best suggestion I've seen yet.

[pijin 49]

GavGav983526 said:

People disagreeing with you does not mean they are milennial blah blah. I have no issue with people disagreeing, but you click disagree on a post that states a fact. Eg, TC would make an F1 car faster. Where did I freak, you are actually make sh it up. But because someone stood up to your opinion, you say they are closed minded or don't respect other peoples opinions. You're a hypocrite.

There are different TCs for different cars, but we're driving F1 cars, so  which type of TC do you think we should get? Come on now. It's an F1 car game, and due to history we know what effect TC has on an F1 car. Maybe you didn't watch F1 before 2008, in which case I forgive you, you may not know/remember.

No-one knows how TC would affect a 2017 F1 car? Don't be so naive. It doesn't take a genius now.

By freak out I mean you insulting every single person here who has an opposing opinion. Not just me, but pretty much everyone else on this forum who disagreed with you. Being rude and belittling is not the way to deal with opposing opinions. Having a respectful discussion is, which you have already proven to be incapable of, and instead take simple things like the disagree button personally. I disagree, so I click the button end of. I don't give a hoot who you are, but I disagree. Whether or not you think its a fact is irrelevant because its would a fact based on your incorrect preconceived notions.

As for clicking the disagree, you're assertion that TC would make an F1 car faster is on the assumption that the TC implemented was designed with the intent of performance. Like I've said, if you put a saloon car TC in it, it would slow it down (don't think of a reply yet, finish reading the post). So it is not strictly a fact, but rather a result of your assumption. 

As for my supposed naiveté, I mean there is no reference for what a 2017 F1 car can do with traction control, so you really can't argue it should be 0.X seconds faster, because its never been done. 

Back to the meat of the issue, you are making assumptions. Yes, we are driving F1 cars, but the intent of the TC isn't to make it faster.  Traction Control exists on a scale between max performance and max control. Just because F1 is about performance doesn't mean this should be for max performance simply because real F1 cars of today don't have TC. I know F1 cars had TC before 08, but they were designed to make the cars faster. This TC is designed to prevent loss of control. Those two are not mutually exclusive, I concede, but you can't have max of both and call it realistic. (The pre 08 cars were not impossible to spin, even in the dry. I just searched 04 F1 spin, and got a clip of Schumi spinning in the dry.) All they did is move it further towards "more control" which slows it down incidentally.

You have to take a high level view (and think) of why the assist is being put in the game, or what problem existed, that they added TC to solve? The answer to that is simple: to help people who are not capable or don't have the time to learn no-TC. And guess what people who need TC do without TC? They lose control of their cars because they can't drive without it. Now which form of TC would best fix that? Performance or control? With this rationale, reason would say control, but if you still can't understand what I'm saying (not even agree, just understand it), then I can't do much.

[Sabba7h 14]

What they should do is add an option to clear your personal best, if it's solely based on an unbeatable time and not on your ranking. They nerfed assists because they were faster than no assists. Have you seen the PC laptimes? Almost two weeks ago now someone did a 27 at China with auto gears and TC on. A whole three seconds faster than the guy in second with no assists.

In real life, traction control is there to limit the amount of power to the wheels to ensure each one has 100% grip at all times. And I can't tell you how many times I've found a controlled slide to be faster in certain corners than 100% grip at all times, since I turned off assists. I've cut down my delta times to the top in a clean half.

Anyways, I know you said you don't want to learn no assists, but TRL Limitless for example is stupid fast on a pad and he drives with no assists. And I get it, the assists -> no assists learning curve is extremely steep. What can help you though, is turning up the throttle and brake linearity to around 15-35 or thereabout. It gives you that secure feeling of TC and ABS but the control you can only get without it. And once you feel comfortable, start turning it off gradually.

Also, and this could just be me, but the added element of having to correct a mistake makes it much more interesting and realistic to me because now I have to catch slides. It's also SO much more rewarding to see that you're beginning to make huge gains without any help.

TL;DR: Assists were nerfed because people were getting unrealistic laptimes with them. That shouldn't be the case when it's the other way around in real life. If it's about getting faster, believe us when we say the way to go is to dump assists altogether.

[oner7 29]

Hey TC users be slow at TT, what is the problem. You are not pro therefore you cannot shouldnt couldnt beat the TC off top drivers. If you are complaining about not being at the top of the table by beating TC off drivers, this is pointless.

If you cannot adjust your throttle then you should use TC, so the game cuts the thruttle for you and you lose time. It is simple.

If you are beating TC off TOP drivers by using TC then there is something wrong. And CM realizes that mistake and fixed it.

And now you are crying because you lose something that has given to you, but in reality it shouldnt be that way.

Before patch 1.08, when you use TC, the car was stable but also fast at the corner exits which is not real.

So if you want to speed up, you should work a little bit and try to learn how to drive without TC. That should be the way to beat TC off drivers. Not to exploid the setup and abuse the error of the game. 

[oner7 29]

If you increase your wing angles, you will be fast and stable at the corners. But meanwhile you will be slow at the straights.

You cannot cry for your lowered top speed, while getting more downforce.

It is the balance of the life. Win-Win strategy is not valid for that situation.

If you are intended to use TC then you should accept losing time at corner exits.

[speeddemon8021 0]

Nickk28 said:

Look, I get that in career you can adjust difficulty, etc I made peace with that

But in time trials there is just no way to break your pre-patch lap times let alone climb the rankings with a pad post Nerf. 

I am a casual player, not going to invest in a wheel, it’s not practical and will look ridiculous... so I like to pick up and play with a pad. 

But the days of trying to improve your personal best and climb the ranking in time trial are over post nerf patch. 

Either separate out the leaderboards for pad pad users or fix the tc back to pre patch. 

No, I don’t want to learn how to drive with TC off on a pad. 


Please listen Codies. 

There is a very simple way to beat your time trials..... turn TC off.It just seems to me people just want to jump onto a game and be fast straight away without actually putting time and effort into it.Well on F1 2013 you had to turn the assists off to set good times or compete in leagues and guess what that's how it is now,it's the best thing codies have done in a long time.So now the choices are put effort into learning no assists or be slower then where you want to be,that for me is exactly how it should of been in the first place now the incentive is there to go no assists.And for those that don't like that well atleast you have Mario Kart you can drive around assisted to your hearts content.

[speeddemon8021 0]

Milanpop said:

So they made a change that affects the whole game just because someone was complaining about lap times in one mode? Specifically Time Trial? This change doesn`t affect only TT, it affects online leagues and single player. If its ok for part of the community to screw up the rest of the game just so they can brag about their TT times then so be it but its incredibly stupid and selfish. Why didn`t they just added +0.3, or whatever, sec for assists on in TT? Why change the handling all together?

Most of the online leagues don`t ban assists, traction i mean, and since there are 20 racers the gap in skill can fluctuate. Now there is another element that increases the gap and i know that driving 50% race on assists off on pad is frustrating, especially in the rain.

The main problem in TT is corner cutting but i don`t see any of you "prosimHamiltons" complaining about that.

Your wrong your wrong your wrong your wrong your wrong your wrong! It's naff all to do with time trial it's people being artificially quick with ridiculous set ups that had people "moaning".

[speeddemon8021 0]

GavGav983526 said:

JR6492 said:

GavGav983526 said:

It's simple. TC makes a car faster in RL, it should do on the game. Up to people how they want to play the game, TC on or TC off. 

The usual girls whining online moaning about it.

Forget the TT leaderboards, they're just a **** swinging contest

There is no TC in F1 in real life so it’s a moot point.

But there is in the game, in the form of TC that has been banned since 2008, making it a relevant point.

Listen up Cry baby, they aren't gonna get rid of it because you can't beat your little sister on TT. Yes they should do seperate online lobbies for assists, yes they should do seperate leaderboards on TT for assists, but CM have a bigger audience than you and your physics-defying childish demands.

As has been explained dozens of times in other threads the TC on this game is not meant to be representative of real life TC but is an "assist" to help lesser skilled players keep the car on the black stuff,what it is not meant to be is a magic wand that suddenly makes slow people fast and lets them run ridiculous set-ups and suffer next to no tyre wear.It was clearly imbalanced and codies to there credit actually did something about it.Now if people would spend that same amount of time practising as they do whining and complaining on here you might actually start to like the change.