Med TC nerf affected PAD ability to compete in time trials

[emiack76 0]

The first F1 game had assists all the way through to the recent release it’s a major selling point for the casual players hence codies keeping it the game. There are other companies that produce the sim racers no doubt but I guess they must be tough to play for some. As for casual players being fickle it’s the hardcore who complained that those casual players are too fast for us because of the assists even after 100s of hours of practice!!! Not really a surprise that there is  a difference of opinion because they’ve changed the game to suit one side. 

[dirt3joe 0]

There's a view that nobody should care about any of this. That's wrong IMO.

Firstly if you were on MTC, now it is really difficult to improve your personal time if you were into hotlapping. I would be annoyed at this. I would want the ability to reset the times at least locally (I don't care about public boards) as there is no chance of improvement with the nerf.

Secondly "who cares" well lot's of people do. Esports is getting really big. Prizes can be massive. People take it seriously, there are professional players. You can argue its silly to take it seriously. But lots of things in life are silly. 22 blokes kicking a football around, that's silly. Strictly Come Dancing, that's pretty silly as well. So is "proper" F1. Who cares who wins that ? The bottom line is loads of stuff in life is pointless. But people dedicate a lot of time to all of these things and they lose their enjoyment and feeling of progression when they feel that time is wasted.

All this stuff needs to be sorted from Day 1 (I appreciate it's difficult), not a couple of months after release. The alternative is to announce a rebalancing period (say they will reset 3 months after release, including all controls and leaderboards) so everyone knows what to expect from Day 1.

[haydn23 5]

Well I believe there is an option to reset your time. I may be wrong however. Everyone has always wanted a separate leaderboard. 
I race on pad, and get top 50 on the leaderboards aswell. So it's not that bad at all. 
I wrote this when the thread was first made but left it as a draft cause i'm a spastic, kms.

[NickDahy 0]

To be honest this change has brought the pace of our league much closer together.  Now the fast driving assists guys will actually get penalized for using really low wing with abusive setups and getting slowed a little by TC. 

Some guys instead now have turned it off and learned in only a week or 2 and are maybe slowed down a few tenths until they master it.  They can't run that low wing now but are quicker in the traction zones, so really I think it is very healthy.

The physics have not changed one bit, so I do not understand that argument, it is only the TC assist that has changed because  non-assist drivers would see the physics change as well and there was not one at all.

[LilBrown47 6]

NickDahy said:

To be honest this change has brought the pace of our league much closer together.  Now the fast driving assists guys will actually get penalized for using really low wing with abusive setups and getting slowed a little by TC. 

Some guys instead now have turned it off and learned in only a week or 2 and are maybe slowed down a few tenths until they master it.  They can't run that low wing now but are quicker in the traction zones, so really I think it is very healthy.

The physics have not changed one bit, so I do not understand that argument, it is only the TC assist that has changed because  non-assist drivers would see the physics change as well and there was not one at all.

Exactly, same here in my league, people are finally starting to become better drivers.

All the ones complaining that assists shouldn't make them slower are just being absolutely ridiculous these days, as it doesn't take 10.000's of hours to become somewhat "competitive" with no assists at all, yet they indirectly claim that it's as hard as climbing up the deadly Mt. Everest on a cold stormy day.

Imho it's probably a very crazy combination of laziness, inability and or even the classic but golden "Dunning Kruger Effect" all at the same time that makes them "rebel" against a change that actually does massively improve competition to the point that "bad drivers" get weeded out if they refuse to improve......

[pijin 49]

GavGav983526 said:

pijin said:

@GavGav983526 you literally are repeating the same thing over and over without reading what I’m saying. It’s laughable that you suggest I don’t know what I’m saying but honestly, not even gonna bother responding to that at any length. instead, I will try to explain to you one more time why this TC doesn’t work like you want it to. Shut that voice inside your head up and read the whole thing before responding.

There exists different kinds of TC for different goals. To decide which you use, you take a high level view of what problem you have and how to solve it. The problem in this scenario is not that cars aren’t going fast enough, rather, that players who can’t commit the time or have the skill are spinning out and losing control of their cars. Performance TC isn’t a good solution as you can still lose control quite easily. The better solution is a control oriented TC with some built in stability control that cuts the player off at 8 or 9/10ths in terms of driving at the limit. The two kinds are not mutually exclusive but generally control TC is not as fast outright. So no it is not unrealistic for TC to be slower.

And btw, the fact that my simple comment about capitalism and entitlement confused you is pretty laughable.

Oh we're still doing this?

I didn't say it confused me. I said it was designed to confuse to detract from the lack of point in the post. It didn't.

The fact you clearly couldn't read this and then have a pop at me about reading posts is indeed laughable. Every post you put up is you treading on a rake Sideshow Bob style it appears.

Laughable indeed.

Laughable is the fact that now you have completely gone away from considering and responding to the actual pertinent information in th post, hence conceding that you are indeed incorrect, or that you still cling to the same belief but have no defense for it and are resorting to attacking me out of frustration. Cheers for that.

Either way your confusion statement still highlights your own arrogance in your subtle assertion that everyone else here isn’t intelligent enough to comprehend it but somehow you are. That faux concern for their “confusion” was simply your arrogance showing through yet again, despite you obviously lacking the intelligence to comprehensively read my posts and instead resorting to using bits and pieces to support your narrative. You ought to work for the media

[pijin 49]

Where did I prove I don’t know what Tc does? I explained to you EXACTLY what TC can do based on what you design it for. The fact that you can’t read and comprehend that does not mean I don’t know what it does. It just speaks volumes for your comprehension skills (or lack thereof).

Also, usually the people to say “end of discussion” are the ones who have no response, so again, thanks for that. Glad I don’t have to continue after this

[Acerees 115]

Hotdogs or popcorn anyone... get ready Seconds out round 3.... ding ding ding 

[pijin 49]

Ha! Your accusing me of not being willing to listen to other opinions yet you’re the one saying “its already established” which again just highlights your hypocrisy.  And now you’re flagging my posts? This is just pettiness now, as up to now, I have given you more respect than you deserve considering how rude you are to everyone who disagrees with you. You've also effectively told me to hang myself, which falls much more under the "abuse" category than disagreeing with you. 

Judging by the amount of “disagrees” you have, you’re supposed “we” in your determination of some “alternative fact” is simply just you sitting in an echo chamber agreeing with yourself. How can you say the argument is “well settled” when hardly anyone has agreed with you? If anything, the argument is well settled, but against you judging by the posts on which you have gotten multiple "disagrees" (try not to cry).

You keep reverting this argument as an argument to what TC has done in F1 cars. Your assertion that TC can make cars faster is true. But it is not always the case. Go to Wikipedia and look. TC can be used to make cars easier/safer to drive or faster. In this case, TC is used to make cars easier to drive since some people need it, hence it does not necessarily need to make the car faster and can potentially make it slower. This is fact. What you say is a partial truth reformatted to promote your opinion. Just saying "oh the argument is settled" doesn't mean one thing if you've settled on the wrong thing.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traction_control_system) Of course now you are just going to find some "soundbites" out of context to support your argument, but hey, the more intelligent people on this forum will know what's what, even if you don't.

You can say what you want about me, but you have been the one who has turned a peaceful discussion into an ugly “insult all dissenters”. But if quoting Mark Twain makes you feel like a better person, then power to you. Irony is that you're the one who needs to take a closer look and learn to respect others opinions and be open to learning facts, but instead you insult and are the very person "dragging others down", except you fail at the "beating with experience" part.

I’m not here to seek approval from random internet folks, I’m here to explain facts. If you can't comprehend what I'm saying, or even bother considering it enough to give it an actual reply, then don't bother! You trying your hardest to say "conversation over" is simply your way of accepting that you have no fact-based replies and are instead relying on closing the discussion to avoid admission. Good rhetorical technique, but pretty easy to see right through.

[Acerees 115]

Round 4...... the body is willing but the text is too short

[pijin 49]

Some of y'all are enjoying this a bit too much.... :P

[Tanman024 0]

Preople who have converted from assist to no assist know how hard it is, and how difficult
it is to be quick again, so it’s annoying when in TT, you do a great lap with no assist, but see people with assist beating you. Assist should only have to power in a game in assisting a player drive the car, not to make him a faster driver than with the assist off. So Codie’s is doing the right thing in making med tc produce a slower lap, as now assist only help car control and not in a speed increase.

[DEECO 3]

I personally am enjoying the level of debating (now arguing) going on about semantics.

IF it is Traction Control on an F1 car, then Gav is right.

IF it is Traction Control as an ASSIST on an F1 car, then Pijin is right.

To be fair, you find the settings to turn it on and off under a category called ASSISTS.

But I also find it amazing/amusing how seriously some folk take the leaderboards....and this game as a whole. I get it to a degree....but still.

To each their own. I just wish people would recognize when they might be thinking "everyone should play the game the way I play the game." And then go have a beer and relax.

*Disclaimer: The poster is in no way, shape, fashion or form taking either side in this.

[1512marcel 457]

OMG, I love this forum and these discussions make it even better.

[pijin 49]

thanks @DEECO for reading and understanding the sides of the argument, and giving a good summary of it. Like you mentioned, TC is under a category called “assists” and hence would work as an assistance TC and not a performance TC. Odd that some cant understand that traction control under the assists menu is a “traction control assist”. Then again, these people usually result to insulting the intelligence of the author of the post rather than actually reading it... makes sense they can’t understand 

Totally agree with what you say though. I for one don’t think everyone should play the way I do (though gav thinks everyone should think the way he does). TC is there to help less casual players (like myself a couple of years back) be able to play without requiring hours of practice. If someone doesn’t have the time to invest, then power to them for using TC. That does not however imply they should be within any definable pace of the no assists users, because if you invest the time, you should be rewarded.

[DEECO 3]

DEECO said:

I personally am enjoying the level of debating (now arguing) going on about semantics.

IF it is Traction Control on an F1 car, then Gav is right.

IF it is Traction Control as an ASSIST on an F1 car, then Pijin is right.

To be fair, you find the settings to turn it on and off under a category called ASSISTS.

But I also find it amazing/amusing how seriously some folk take the leaderboards....and this game as a whole. I get it to a degree....but still.

To each their own. I just wish people would recognize when they might be thinking "everyone should play the game the way I play the game." And then go have a beer and relax.

*Disclaimer: The poster is in no way, shape, fashion or form taking either side in this.

pijin said:

thanks @DEECO for reading and understanding the sides of the argument, and giving a good summary of it. Like you mentioned, TC is under a category called “assists” and hence would work as an assistance TC and not a performance TC. Odd that some cant understand that traction control under the assists menu is a “traction control assist”. Then again, these people usually result to insulting the intelligence of the author of the post rather than actually reading it... makes sense they can’t understand 

Totally agree with what you say though. I for one don’t think everyone should play the way I do (though gav thinks everyone should think the way he does). TC is there to help less casual players (like myself a couple of years back) be able to play without requiring hours of practice. If someone doesn’t have the time to invest, then power to them for using TC. That does not however imply they should be within any definable pace of the no assists users, because if you invest the time, you should be rewarded.

Eeeeeeeeasy now.

Please re-read my disclaimer. 

[pijin 49]

DEECO said:

DEECO said:

I personally am enjoying the level of debating (now arguing) going on about semantics.

IF it is Traction Control on an F1 car, then Gav is right.

IF it is Traction Control as an ASSIST on an F1 car, then Pijin is right.

To be fair, you find the settings to turn it on and off under a category called ASSISTS.

But I also find it amazing/amusing how seriously some folk take the leaderboards....and this game as a whole. I get it to a degree....but still.

To each their own. I just wish people would recognize when they might be thinking "everyone should play the game the way I play the game." And then go have a beer and relax.

*Disclaimer: The poster is in no way, shape, fashion or form taking either side in this.

pijin said:

thanks @DEECO for reading and understanding the sides of the argument, and giving a good summary of it. Like you mentioned, TC is under a category called “assists” and hence would work as an assistance TC and not a performance TC. Odd that some cant understand that traction control under the assists menu is a “traction control assist”. Then again, these people usually result to insulting the intelligence of the author of the post rather than actually reading it... makes sense they can’t understand 

Totally agree with what you say though. I for one don’t think everyone should play the way I do (though gav thinks everyone should think the way he does). TC is there to help less casual players (like myself a couple of years back) be able to play without requiring hours of practice. If someone doesn’t have the time to invest, then power to them for using TC. That does not however imply they should be within any definable pace of the no assists users, because if you invest the time, you should be rewarded.

Eeeeeeeeasy now.

Please re-read my disclaimer. 

I read your disclaimer, pal, but your statement about TC being in an assists menu is basically the core of the point I’m making. It’s an assist. I appreciate that you are not “taking sides” but that caveat you made when comparing myself and Gav’s point of views is exactly the point I’m trying to make, just in a more eloquent manner. Not trying to forcefully yank you to my “side” but rather to identify the fact that you’ve helped make the point I’ve been trying to make for all this time but in a much more concise and comprehensive manner.

As for Gav’s rambling about it being undefined, well.. If he doesn’t realize why Codies put TC in, he is way more out of touch with reality than I first thought. It’s pretty obvious that it’s there to help less skilled or invested players, not to make the cars faster. It’s kind of absurd that he is still raving about that.

[FRACTURED 30]

DEECO said:To be fair, you find the settings to turn it on and off under a category called ASSISTS.

Perhaps this is why I subconsciously thought of it as AN ASSIST on my end of the argument (its not a discussion when someone consistently reverts to petty name calling...) rather than some sort of performance increasing system as in real life.

Wouldn't mind seeing what an F1 style car with full underfloor venturi's, suction fans, skirts,  twin chassis, suspension mounted wings, FRIC, exhaust blown diffusers and everything else they've banned over the years running self levelling actuated suspension,TCS/SCS/ABS and all that good technical stuff they mostly banned, could actually do. 45 second laps of Red Bull Ring would be fun.

[DauntingConch 0]

@GavGav983526  I have met with the Codemasters team during the Alpha testing of this game and the previous one.  As a group we discussed traction, one of the requests was that they ensure they balance it as best they can as it was an overpowered feature of the 2016 release.  Not at any point did the developer state its intention was to be a performance enhancing mod.

Whilst the intention could be spelt out clearer, there is not really any need to do this or to request Codemasters confirm it is.  You seem to be the only one arguing that it technically could be a performance mod because of the wording, but you're an intelligent guy and technically are right, but you know what this feature is intended to be and always has been in previous releases... 

I think it is more than speculation that people are saying it's an assist, but rather a well educated answer based on what it does in the game, the menu it is within and what it's purpose has been in previous releases of the game.  Whilst sometimes enterrtaining, I'm not sure why you're arguing this now unless it is to see how many people you can see will disagree with you?!

[DauntingConch 0]

GavGav983526 said:

DauntingConch said:

@GavGav983526  I have met with the Codemasters team during the Alpha testing of this game and the previous one.  As a group we discussed traction, one of the requests was that they ensure they balance it as best they can as it was an overpowered feature of the 2016 release.  Not at any point did the developer state its intention was to be a performance enhancing mod.

DC, thanks for your insightful response. It's very interesting, and I understand why people would want it balanced. Your last line there is interesting and could be key. You don't appear to go further though. Now under no circumstances does telling the select few (YouTube 8?) what the intention isn't categorically state what the intention IS, but it would have been interesting if they HAD said what their intention was. I don't disbelieve you. But I'm sure you'll agree CM could be clearer, particularly with those outside the Y8.

What does concern me reading that, is that my point hasn't been exhibited by  those there. I've made a vialid point -See below - and yet its not one one of these people thought of. Are they game fans, are they YouTubers who play F1, or are they fans of the sport who want to replicate it. The people at this thing are a different debate completely, been had a while ago I believe, but this whole thing could and would have been clarified if any of those guys shown attention to detail. That's not to criticise your work DC.


Whilst the intention could be spelt out clearer, there is not really any need to do this or to request Codemasters confirm it is. 

I think the need from CM to confirm is purely opinion, for which I respect yours, if disagree.

You seem to be the only one arguing that it technically could be a performance mod because of the wording, but you're an intelligent guy and technically are right,

Thank you for making this important point DC. I am right (I'm also intelligent, but that hasn't been questioned by anyone of note, so I'll leave it there.). I am correct in what I am saying. It is a small detail, and is pedantic, but it's correct. Attention to detail is expected and is not crimeAnd as you yourself allude to, it's the wording, something that could be easily fixed. But as you say, I am right. You got it yourself right there in one paragraph, some can't take it from 1000s and 1000s in a 7 page thread. Thank you.

but you know what this feature is intended to be and always has been in previous releases... 

There are two factors that make me say that isn't the case.

1, it's called TC. They call it anything else, it's not TC, it doesn't matter. They then have artistic license to do what they like with it.

2, in every game so far, it has made the cars faster, thus doing what TC would do.

Those 2 aren't applicable, then I could say that's what it is intended for. And as 2 appears to be being modified, I believe 1 should too.

But I do see why others think what they do.

I think it is more than speculation that people are saying it's an assist, but rather a well educated answer based on what it does in the game, the menu it is within and what it's purpose has been in previous releases of the game.  Whilst sometimes enterrtaining, I'm not sure why you're arguing this now unless it is to see how many people you can see will disagree with you?!

With due respect DC, without confirmation it is speculation, to the definition of the word. But again I can see why people make that educated guess.
Im certainly not seeing how many different people disagree with me, as you said, I'm correct, I'm fine with that. The disagrees say more about those than me. I'm just making a valid point about realism. I have always argued this point btw. I hope you can see my point of view.

Cheers

Always a pleasure debating with you.  I'm glad you recognise it is pedantic what we are discussing, but respect something you want to pursue, because you're not incorrect. 

Yes the testing was with the Youtube guys, but there were also a handful of forum members also there too, all of which are regular contributers to the forum, so it wasn't a publicity excerise, there is genuine intent from Codemasters to get a well rounded view from a variety of user bases.  The reason no one questioned the terminology was because we were all on the same page of what the purpose of it was, therefore there was no questioning of the name.  As you've said it is pedantic and you're are the only one questioning the wording, I don't think that means you need to be concerned at the level of testers as we were giving high level comments on a game in its Alpha stage, most of the screens were place holders, old assetts etc...

I know you're point of view, as I've said before I do see it, I'm also not after any argument, I like discussing things as a grown up and would stop commenting if it became personal or non objective.  Your point is valid about realism, we had similar discussion last year.   It is just not how this game or previous games have intended the TC assist to be, so when making the argument it should be faster, I do understand but again would not be how the assist is intended to be and thats why it has been nerfed by Codemasters.  As wrong as you see the wording, in my opinion, the TC should be balanced so there is no outright advantage over the non assist users.

Please dont take every word so literal as well, my schooling was not very good, so I sometimes use words or sentences which are not ideal but explain my point as best I can.  Hence my comment about intelligence, I wasn't doubting yours but I dont write as well and didn't want it to lessen my point of view!

[emiack76 0]

GavGav983526 said:

DauntingConch said:

GavGav983526 said:

DauntingConch said:

@GavGav983526  I have met with the Codemasters team during the Alpha testing of this game and the previous one.  As a group we discussed traction, one of the requests was that they ensure they balance it as best they can as it was an overpowered feature of the 2016 release.  Not at any point did the developer state its intention was to be a performance enhancing mod.

DC, thanks for your insightful response. It's very interesting, and I understand why people would want it balanced. Your last line there is interesting and could be key. You don't appear to go further though. Now under no circumstances does telling the select few (YouTube 8?) what the intention isn't categorically state what the intention IS, but it would have been interesting if they HAD said what their intention was. I don't disbelieve you. But I'm sure you'll agree CM could be clearer, particularly with those outside the Y8.

What does concern me reading that, is that my point hasn't been exhibited by  those there. I've made a vialid point -See below - and yet its not one one of these people thought of. Are they game fans, are they YouTubers who play F1, or are they fans of the sport who want to replicate it. The people at this thing are a different debate completely, been had a while ago I believe, but this whole thing could and would have been clarified if any of those guys shown attention to detail. That's not to criticise your work DC.


Whilst the intention could be spelt out clearer, there is not really any need to do this or to request Codemasters confirm it is. 

I think the need from CM to confirm is purely opinion, for which I respect yours, if disagree.

You seem to be the only one arguing that it technically could be a performance mod because of the wording, but you're an intelligent guy and technically are right,

Thank you for making this important point DC. I am right (I'm also intelligent, but that hasn't been questioned by anyone of note, so I'll leave it there.). I am correct in what I am saying. It is a small detail, and is pedantic, but it's correct. Attention to detail is expected and is not crimeAnd as you yourself allude to, it's the wording, something that could be easily fixed. But as you say, I am right. You got it yourself right there in one paragraph, some can't take it from 1000s and 1000s in a 7 page thread. Thank you.

but you know what this feature is intended to be and always has been in previous releases... 

There are two factors that make me say that isn't the case.

1, it's called TC. They call it anything else, it's not TC, it doesn't matter. They then have artistic license to do what they like with it.

2, in every game so far, it has made the cars faster, thus doing what TC would do.

Those 2 aren't applicable, then I could say that's what it is intended for. And as 2 appears to be being modified, I believe 1 should too.

But I do see why others think what they do.

I think it is more than speculation that people are saying it's an assist, but rather a well educated answer based on what it does in the game, the menu it is within and what it's purpose has been in previous releases of the game.  Whilst sometimes enterrtaining, I'm not sure why you're arguing this now unless it is to see how many people you can see will disagree with you?!

With due respect DC, without confirmation it is speculation, to the definition of the word. But again I can see why people make that educated guess.
Im certainly not seeing how many different people disagree with me, as you said, I'm correct, I'm fine with that. The disagrees say more about those than me. I'm just making a valid point about realism. I have always argued this point btw. I hope you can see my point of view.

Cheers

Always a pleasure debating with you.  I'm glad you recognise it is pedantic what we are discussing, but respect something you want to pursue, because you're not incorrect. 

Yes the testing was with the Youtube guys, but there were also a handful of forum members also there too, all of which are regular contributers to the forum, so it wasn't a publicity excerise, there is genuine intent from Codemasters to get a well rounded view from a variety of user bases.  The reason no one questioned the terminology was because we were all on the same page of what the purpose of it was, therefore there was no questioning of the name.  As you've said it is pedantic and you're are the only one questioning the wording, I don't think that means you need to be concerned at the level of testers as we were giving high level comments on a game in its Alpha stage, most of the screens were place holders, old assetts etc...

I know you're point of view, as I've said before I do see it, I'm also not after any argument, I like discussing things as a grown up and would stop commenting if it became personal or non objective.  Your point is valid about realism, we had similar discussion last year.   It is just not how this game or previous games have intended the TC assist to be, so when making the argument it should be faster, I do understand but again would not be how the assist is intended to be and thats why it has been nerfed by Codemasters.  As wrong as you see the wording, in my opinion, the TC should be balanced so there is no outright advantage over the non assist users.

Please dont take every word so literal as well, my schooling was not very good, so I sometimes use words or sentences which are not ideal but explain my point as best I can.  Hence my comment about intelligence, I wasn't doubting yours but I dont write as well and didn't want it to lessen my point of view!

No worries, DC, lot of good stuff in there, and believe me, that was a post was alot more sensible and intelligent than several I've replied to on here.

I'm not arguing anything you've said, you've acknowledged what I'm trying to say and the validity therein.

All I'll say or clarify, rather ironically, is that I'm NOT an assist user myself, I am a pad non-assist user. Nor do I use TC ;) So I don't have a vested interest in this argument. I have an interest in enjoying an experience as close to F1 through this game as I can.

Out of interest if you know, as I dont. How did CM nerf TC in 1.9? Did they literally reduce traction on the cars, or did the cars have the same traction but were slower due to an invisible weight or grip penalty?

The last question there is really what a lot of us would like an answer too. 

Please post if you find out. 

Cheers. 

[pijin 49]

GavGav983526 said:

Out of interest if you know, as I dont. How did CM nerf TC in 1.9? Did they literally reduce traction on the cars, or did the cars have the same traction but were slower due to an invisible weight or grip penalty?

 As far as I can feel when playing it, they basically reduced the slip threshold for when the TC engages to reduce power and wheelspin. While in the past you got basically the perfect amount of slip to help the car really punch out of corners, now it feels like it bogs a little more because it cuts power before you get to that level. Though I've seen some report random oversteer as a result, so not sure quite what that comes from.

GavGav983526 said:

No worries, DC, lot of good stuff in there, and believe me, that was a post was alot more sensible and intelligent than several I've replied to on here.

Nice not so subtle dig there, mate. Perhaps if you'd actually reread my posts (minus the communism stuff lol), you'd realize that I've been making much the same points. Though cheers to @DauntingConch for being able to put across that point in a much more eloquent manner.

[pijin 49]

@GavGav983526 I'm no orator, so I don't claim to have the best ability to explain things, so I don't mind acknowledging that DC did a better job explaining it. I wasn't trying to discredit what you were saying, but rather trying to get across that the interpretation that Codemasters took in the implementation of traction control didn't line up with your implementation. I did concede in multiple occasions that you weren't strictly incorrect, but were taking a different interpretation. Again though, DC definitely got to the point a lot better than I did. I didn't really go personal until you started the belittling though... 

[DauntingConch 0]

@pijin @GavGav98352 Unfortunately I know as much as you guys do on what Codies have done to nerf the traction, after the alpha testing we joined in the larger beta group testing and after the release, that section of the forum goes very quiet.

If I were to speculate, I would agree with pijin's post about them cutting the power, when TC is on full it cuts power out really early and users get a bogged down feeling coming out of corners.  I assume they have just brought the medium setting closer to the full when rebalancing it...

I don't use TC either, last year the game was much harder without TC, the cars were a handul and really skitty, this year they feel much more planted and a lot easier to drive without TC on, I assume this is why people on medium TC are complaining they've lost the feeling of the car as the nerfing has got rid of any rear end sliding. 

Personally I agree with the balancing, from racing in a league of mixed assists, the racing has become a lot closer.  But again just personal opinion...

[VOOVman 0]

Xbox one player here!

I drive without assists on pad. I'm currently 0.5 - 1 second slower to top10 players on the TT leaderboards!  Not great.. I already know I'm not a alien  B)

My opinion on the topic.. It is possible to compete without assists in TT! you just have to invest time into the game to gain the rewards! Personally I have NEVER had problem with assist driver's Medium tc should not of been nerfed 100% brake pressure abs exploit is the problem what should of been fixed!

Btw I'm more causal than hardcore :p