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We need to talk (physics mods discussion)

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First of all I would like to apologize for my english, it's not my first language, so this is a long post with bad english. Sorry.

But I need to do it. Since Dirt 4 I have lost my hope in finding a true successor to Dirt Rally. From the first moment I was almost sure we wouldn't see any big patch/improvement for Dirt 4. Unfortunately time gave me the reason. So, I have been trying different patches, games and solutions for the lack of Dirt Rally 2. I found RFPE for Dirt 4, but even admitting it makes some improvements it also has some stranges decisions. And my biggest problem with Dirt 4 it's I don't like your Stage. It's souless, repetitive and boring. I think it's a great idea but it is unfinished. Your stage can't be the main content of a rally game, it is a great addition to a rally game but we needd proper stages. I 've always thought Dirt Rally + Dirt 4 would be the perfect game, the content we always wanted from the beginning. Physics are another story.

In my desperation of finding a phsycis improvement I've tried the Dirt Rally RFPE. I have played a lot to Dirt Rally (+600 hours) so I understand the game, I know better this game and what it's happening with every car in each moment than what' is happening in similar conditions in Dirt 4. Since the beginning I could feel RFPE is not correct. Tarmac physics are terrible, are similar to Dirt Rally 2.0 physics but with less grip, it feels floaty and unresponsive. Grave is not so bad, you can feel more weight to the cars, more similar to Dirt Rally 1.0 but with less grip in the brakes, which makes the car more difficult to control, some times too much. It makes some improvements but it is neither perfect. 

This was my story with last Dirt games until I found "Alternate physics mod" in Racedeparment, a patch or improvement for RFPE. Oh my god, I have found my perfect physics. It's like a dream, tarmac is even better than Dirt Rally 1.0 physics. You feel the weight and the grip of the car, without nosense oversteering movement like RFPE. You need time and space to brake, but if you do it properly you can be very fast in the exit of  the turn. The moment of braking and the accelaration point it very accurate in my opinion. Gravel it's very nice as well. It's similar to Dirt Rally 2.0 physics but with a notch less of grip and so much weight in all cars. Finland it's so much better now. You also have to try Pikes Peak with the 208, oh my godness, so much grip, no slides, propper braking zones, more similar to a circuit game. 

Seriously, I beg you to everyone who loves Dirt Rally, or Rally games in general, to prove this amazing physics mod.  I am a happy rally gamer now.
I also would love that Codemasters could pay attention to this phsyci mod or similar real physic information. I am sure they are aware of it, and I susppect the problem it's not that it's difficult to implement these kind of physics, I am afraid the problem it's more a commercial and marketing problem. I expected that gamer/simulation modes would help to avoid this problem, maybe whe need three phsycis modes; gamer/simcade/simulation. Or maybe we only need a real hardcore simulator Dirt Rally 2.

The guy of Alternate physcis is using WRC information. It's impresive. Please give it a try:
http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/alternate-physics-0-3b-for-plugin-rfpe-0-4-gravel-improvement-all-cars-added.15552/

http://www.racedepartment.com/attachments/tarmac_grip_vs_slp_ratio-jpg.205243/
http://www.racedepartment.com/attachments/sno-ice-grip-vs-slp-ratio-jpg.205245/
http://www.racedepartment.com/attachments/tarmac-slip_angle-jpg.205249/
http://www.racedepartment.com/attachments/gravel-slp-angle-jpg.205250/

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Just tested it out, and DAMN i am impressed. It took me an hour to get used to it but it feels SO REWARDING. I used to hate the N4 Subaru, now i was giddy with joy going sideways with it. And the floatiness on tarmac is completely gone! I love this <3

Here's a little video; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKw4Mg7ZQXw

I haven't played dirt rally in a while, and the physics change everything so it's kinda bad but i think it shows the changes pretty well

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I played DR yesterday the first time in 6 months.
I looked at statistics/achievements in Xbox - and some strange numbers there.

From being one of 11% unlocking assigning a perk to engineer(I think it was named) it now said 7% unlocked this - meaning not many people of those added in 6 months understand the mechanics of it all.

If such a big part of gamers don't get essential parts something is missing - like tutorials and proper explantions how to make the most of the game. I mean I played 4-5 hours I think it was and unlocked this.

Things I don't understand fully is what effect is it if I repair car or not???
Does AI comparison make you drop in leaderboard or team ranking or similar????
It's a little cost to it - but otherwise the time added - how does it affect anything???

But Codemasters are not the only ones not having proper manuals or tuts.

Isn't the biggest chance of happy gamers if the more that actually understand deeper fundmentals and making it more fun. Well, fundmentals are racing and that you get on racing, but if they spend time developing manager features that nobody get - that is bad time spent for developers.

Other things that bother me is that game says my max speed is 165 km/h in Xbox statistics is says max speed 45.77 - and what that number is I have no idea. I posted as Xbox problem 8-9 months ago and Codemasters do nothing about it. It's all about PC gamers for them. Consoles get no updates.

They are not getting any more of my money, that is for sure. These sequels are just for milking money of the crowd.

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Looks nice (not sure how it compares on RFPE, but judgning from your footage, it looks nice indeed!).
Just one thought, on Radedepartment you can read:

"Previous version I erroneously thought values for wet gravel were independently set which is why heavy/medium gravel felt like mud even in dry conditions."

Does it mean DR doesn't have separate values for wet/ dry gravel?

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Just gave this a try.

First of all. It completely fixes the floaty feeling on tarmac. The FFB is tight, and the cars are not moving like crabs anymore. Very nice!

However, gravel grip is just too low in my opinion. It basically feels like you are sweeping the roads of heaps of loose gravel all the time.
It's especiallynoticeable in the RWD cars. There is zero bite to the tires when driving the Fiat 131 on gravel. It feels like you are using standard road tires on a gravel road. Grooved competition tires dig in the road much more than what many people think.

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@bogani
I have to disagree, it definitely doesn't feel like road tires. look at the speeds in the video above, no normal tire would actually grip that much on gravel. At least my Opel doesn't :D

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@bogani
I have to disagree, it definitely doesn't feel like road tires. look at the speeds in the video above, no normal tire would actually grip that much on gravel. At least my Opel doesn't :D

Road tires might have been a bit of an exageration, the point is the grip is just way too low for being competition tires.

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I don´t know. I think gravel is very nice, the more weight give more inertia at high speed. I don't feel the grip too low, maybe a bit, but I am not sure, I only lose grips at high speeds in medium corners, I like it. I have more problems with the understeering in tarmac, specially in the exit of the corners. The guy behind this mod is making some tweaks. What I love more about this mod is the weight of the car, after playing other games is the worst thing I find in official Dirt Rally physics.

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I think you guys underestimate the grip proper rally tires gives you. As I said, the 4WD cars feels like you are sweeping the roads of heaps of loose gravel.

The RWD cars doesn't bite the gravel anywhere close to what they should. Vanilla grip is actually pretty close in my opinion.

I agree that the cars understeer a bit too much on tarmac. I also tend to lock up the brakes a bit too easy, but the greatest improvement is that the mod removes the floating around on tarmac.


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bogani said:
I think you guys underestimate the grip proper rally tires gives you. As I said, the 4WD cars feels like you are sweeping the roads of heaps of loose gravel.

The RWD cars doesn't bite the gravel anywhere close to what they should. Vanilla grip is actually pretty close in my opinion.

I agree that the cars understeer a bit too much on tarmac. I also tend to lock up the brakes a bit too easy, but the greatest improvement is that the mod removes the floating around on tarmac.


Gravel tyres have grip, yes.  But the cars weigh something too & a driver on gravel does have to manage that weight-shift & Power/braking.  The grip is there, but if you are driving hard or aggressively, the car will be floating beyond the thresholds of tyre-grip.  The WRC cars have the power to easily punch through the grip & they have the weight to swing out beyond too.  

If the mod accurately adds weight, the car ‘should’ feel floaty to an extent.  If they just used vanilla weight but mess with actual grip value, the play will feel dreadful.

A big test is replicating a Scandinavian flick.  If they’ve got the balance right, it should require a lot of driver balance & happen slow & wide

Id love to try it to see...

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KevM said:
bogani said:
I think you guys underestimate the grip proper rally tires gives you. As I said, the 4WD cars feels like you are sweeping the roads of heaps of loose gravel.

The RWD cars doesn't bite the gravel anywhere close to what they should. Vanilla grip is actually pretty close in my opinion.

I agree that the cars understeer a bit too much on tarmac. I also tend to lock up the brakes a bit too easy, but the greatest improvement is that the mod removes the floating around on tarmac.


Gravel tyres have grip, yes.  But the cars weigh something too & a driver on gravel does have to manage that weight-shift & Power/braking.  The grip is there, but if you are driving hard or aggressively, the car will be floating beyond the thresholds of tyre-grip.  The WRC cars have the power to easily punch through the grip & they have the weight to swing out beyond too.  

If the mod accurately adds weight, the car ‘should’ feel floaty to an extent.  If they just used vanilla weight but mess with actual grip value, the play will feel dreadful.

A big test is replicating a Scandinavian flick.  If they’ve got the balance right, it should require a lot of driver balance & happen slow & wide

Id love to try it to see...

The RWD cars in vanilla DR really is a great achievment as the tires actually feel like the dig in the surface in a similar way they do in real life. This mod takes away that feeling.

It improves certain things, but some things needs work.

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I agree, but the vanilla cars need a bit more weight to get the pendulum going 

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any news from CM on patch or anything !? cant seem to find anything lately  
I can't seem to find anything ever since July. Could be just me though :D

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2-3 weeks ago there was a post from CM about readying something ........................... was wondering if Reddit or anything has any other updates

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