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2017 Mexicolan Grand Prix


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AMS97KRR said:
AMS97KRR said:
I like Max, but I've said this before about track limits, I hate the fact that today it is possible to pretty much drive around people whilst 98% off the road. It was inside the track by about an inch or two, As soon as he knew Vettel would do that, he had no intention of staying on track and he just made his own track up - so defensive manoeuvres at some parts of the track are basically pointless because the other guy can just use the run off area, crazy. Happened again with Massa and Vettel later on, both incidents should have been penalised in some form, although Massa was a bit out of control when he tried to force Vettel off. But still, I hate watching passes where the majority of the overtaking car is in no mans land, doesn't demonstrate much skill to me if you just drive it like a car park. 

I'm not really a fan of forcing people off either having said that, bit of a **** move in my view but it seems like a lot of people are ok with it. Whatever, start was very clumsy for several reasons.

Even though he'll never read it, congrats to Lewis for winning the title, he deserved it in the end, Ferrari let themselves down, as a team, once again. Unfortunately it felt more like an inevitability when it came rather than what I'd hoped for but I'm sure some of you guys are very happy anyway ;)


So wait, let me get this straight. You're saying that Verstappen deserved a penalty because Vettel forced him off in T1, and that Massa deserves a penalty because he forced Vettel off... Come on man, double standards.

And then you can't admit that Vettel drove like an amateur through the first corners by hitting Verstappen and Hamilton.

At least you congratulated Hamilton before insulting him I guess.
No I said Vettel and Verstappen should have been penalised really for going mostly off track whilst passing. I'm not a fan of doing that at all, my only slight gripe with Massa was that he appeared a bit out of control whilst doing it. As I said, I don't like forcing people off either but apparently that's pretty much ok now. 

I can congratulate him for doing a good job and insult him for being an idiot, that's fair I think. I don't see the need to take a stab at Nico, just why? Lewis is an interesting figure because I and a lot of others massively respect in the car Lewis for his driving skills, but don't like him outside the car because of things like that. Hearing stories about how he has acted in the past (Button, Sutil for example) doesn't do him any favours either. But anyway, this is not a thread for that. 

As for driving like an amateur, the second contact with Verstappen was a bit unavoidable, Max had such a turn in angle that he swiped completely over Vettel's side of the track, it was racing incident, maybe Vettel could have done more to avoid it, but Max equally might have - Vettel had to turn in at some point and it ended up being clumsy. It's been well confirmed by now that Vettel's front wing damage caused him to oversteer/understeer and that caused the Hamilton contact. 
I'm not sure why Vettel really needed to go so defensive, second would have done it and he had pace to potentially work the strategy. But I understand that he was just desperate.
Ok sorry, it read to me like you were saying it was fine for Vettel to push Verstappen off but not for Massa to do it to Vettel. I can't say I'm a fan of this whole pushing another driver off the track either. I've always been of the opinion that you should leave at least a cars width to the edge of the track when defending like that, because forcing another driver off the track is pretty dirty tactics.

I thought it was funny :p The thing about these stories though is that there's always stuff like that about every driver. Like Perez is a prima donna who can't accept his own failures, Wehrlein isn't much of a team player, Sutil glassed a Renault guy and gave him 24 stitches (not surprised Hamilton didn't stick up for him), and Schumi cheated a bunch of times. Oh and another, one of the guys I work with claims that the brother of his friend (yup one of those rumours) worked with Jolyon Palmer, and that Palmer was a stuck up **** who was only interested in getting himself ahead at absolutely everything, and only ever talked about himself and wasn't interested in anybody around him.

Where's it been confirmed? Most of the pundits were confused how Vettel hit Hamilton when Hamilton left him plenty of room. It looked to me from the onboard like Vettel was too keen to get on the throttle which gave him the oversteer that took him into Hamilton. And it was a fairly low speed corner so I'd imagine the downforce he'd lost from losing a small part of his wing in the Verstappen contact didn't play much part in that if any at all bud. I think the word you used is probably the right one though, it was desperate driving which unfortuantely made him clumsy.
Its cool, and yeah you're right, it's dirty. "ALL THE TIME YOU HAVE TO LEAVE DA SPACE" as Alonso would say. Good racing can't take place if you can just force people off.

The whole thing with Sutil is a bit weird but from what I understand, and I might be wrong, but Lewis basically abandoned him completely after that incident and despite acting nice to his face, he never turned up to talk with him when they agreed on it. Button is a reliable source in my opinion and he thought Lewis was a bit odd as well by the sounds of it. I don't get it to be honest, but seeing how few drivers he really speaks too, it makes sense for that to be the case. He's more interested in his outside circle of friends than his colleagues. Nothing wrong with that but most drivers have a lot of friends within F1, the better ones especially. As I've also heard, he doesn't get on well with people he see's as a threat. A bit of speculation on some of that but yeah. 

I believe an FIA spokesperson said that, "VET onboard video showed clearly that he didn't touch HAM deliberately in T3, but had oversteer and could not avoid" - Not sure if wing damage was mentioned at all actually but oversteer was seen as the cause of why it happened at least. 



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Totally twisting Buttons words, he already explained what he meant in an interview with BBC Breakfast. What he meant by odd was when he released stuff like telemetry data, I suggest you watch the interview. He used one word and the press jumped all over it as they do.
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Hughesy said:
Totally twisting Buttons words, he already explained what he meant in an interview with BBC Breakfast. What he meant by odd was when he released stuff like telemetry data, I suggest you watch the interview. He used one word and the press jumped all over it as they do.
I mean this article does suggest something else: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/button-hamilton-teammate-mclaren-weird-966284/

Hamilton does seem to come across a bit weird in Button's eyes, beyond just the telemetry thing, which he was clearly absolutely fuming about.

Reading all these stories about him, they do make him seem a bit weird. Obviously none of us know him on a personal level so I'm not going to say that he is definitely always like that, and I'd feel very confident saying he isn't a bad person. But if I want to form my opinion on Lewis the man and not Lewis the driver, I can only go on what sources we have at hand. Jenson, Sutil and others he has worked/been friends with seem fairly reliable, but you have to keep in mind you cannot fully trust them.
And of course I can judge him by his own actions off track, which at times (such as that quote above) have been questionable.

It goes both ways though, I thought Vettel was stupid to not just come right out and apologise for Baku. Admit he let his temper get out of control and people would respect that, and I find it silly when like in Mexico he complained about Massa forcing him out, but he already forced Max out. Could argue both are more in car related to be fair though, the first overlaps with off track because he had time to think about his actions, whilst in Mexico he didn't. Overall I prefer the way Vettel is, and you clearly like Lewis more, and that's ok.
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I've heard and read from several journalists and insiders of the sport that Jenson Button is nowhere near the nice chap he appears to be infront of the cameras. I guess we all know jack sh*t about their personalities. Reading about James Allison's praise for Lewis a few days ago, I can't help but feel that many people have the wrong perception of Lewis until they start working with him. I've heard the same kind of comments from Toto Wolff back in early 2013, from Bottas earlier this year, from Paddy Lowe, etc. Sure, none of them would have criticized Lewis openly, but the amount of praise he got was clearly more than the usual PR-stuff you say about your employees.
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Button doesn't even hide it that well. I said not too long ago, Button has a reputation for being a partyboy, yet somehow portrayed himself as a family man when he was with Jessica Michibata, who also has a party reputation. And then there is the BAR/Williams-situation, his issues with teammates, hints of it are out there, but for some reason, we've decided to ignore all of it and paint Button as a normal, classy gentleman of a chap. Maybe it's me, but calling your ex-teammate a weirdo in your book is not exactly gentlemanny.


Worked for Damon Hill. Who is actually a dick.
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Jiggy said:
Who gives a damn about Nico Tossberg? Honestly.
I know this is about as rhetorical as it can get, but I legit respect the dude. Basically abandoned his pregnant wife emotionally for the sake of a World Championship, that's elite mentality.

I don't miss him, as his driving style and his career in general was uneventful. Or BOOOOOORRRRRIIIIIIINGGGGGG.

But I respect him. For how much he gave up to win the title and how much he sacrificed to win it and how he immediately decided he wanted to be a family man when it paid off. Rosberg basically drove himself to the brink of insanity, just to beat Hamilton, somehow pulled it off and instantly admitted it was not something he could do all over again. That's determination.

Also says something about how insanely talented Hamilton must be that a pretty good driver in Rosberg had to go to such lengths to equal him.
Comment of the month! :mrgreen:
I never really thought about how much he must have given up last year, and it definitley takes balls to admit that and then bow out for your family.
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Mexicola said:
Jiggy said:
how is that possible, you own the grand prix mate
I work through proxies and intermediaries and your failure to understand that is why Holland isn't holding a Grand Prix.
HEY! YOU TAKE THAT BACK OR I'LL SWEAR I'LL USE THE FULL FORCE OF THE AMD AMX INTERNET DEFENSE LEAGUE AND WE WILL VOTE YOU DRIVER OF THE DAY IN BRAZIL AND THEN YOU'LL BE SORRY AS YOU'LL BE SOUGHT AFTER BY THE WORLD'S FINEST TRANSSEXUALS
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