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Dear Codies, you have to sort out first lap pace. It's a joke.


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stuzster said:
I have been driving Codies F1 games since 2010. For the last two years, I have done real-time careers on 2012/2013 (shadowing the real season) and from cockpit view with NO proximity arrows and NO assists, the thought of diving up the inside and nicking half a dozen places just doesn't enter my head.

I agree with the idea of holding back and am aware that it's possible to gain a lot at turn one - but in all honesty, with the assists OFF and with the limited view, I find myself naturally cautious in the opening laps, such that in nearly two years of 100% racing, I think I've only ever made up a spot or two off the line per race - often none at all. 

I agree the AI pace does need sorting for the opening laps, and even with my approach I still come across the odd moment - but it's worth trying to find a way to improve your experience of the game. Codies cannot please everyone...

Wynterdust said:
Although it's no remedy for the problem- don't treat it as a game on the first corner/lap. Would you chuck an F1 car into turn one on the inside of several cars in a real life situation? Drive below your limits for a lap. I do that myself and it makes the rest of the race more entertaining. It shouldn't be like that but for now that's all that can be done.
Couldnt agree more with this! Sure the AI need a big improvment when they are close together but the biggest problem I see is the ppl diving down the inside after braking stupid late just because they know the AI will back out and the player will always get the position! I ALWAYS try to drive as clean as possible and will never dive bomb down the inside just because I can! IF the player knew the AI would do nothing to avoid contact they would not go for these moves and make up 5 places in 1 braking zone. I know racing is about going as fast as you can but if the grid had 21 maldonado's it would make the player think twice about some of the over takes they make. 99% of the vids on youtube the player is using T-cam which gives miles better view! Stop using that unrealistic T-cam view, switch all hud off and it makes it much harder to decide if you have room for the overtake in the first place. Makes me laugh when ppl say cm games need to be more sim (I agree) but they use the T-cam because they dont like cockpit??? Bet all the real drivers would love to choose there fov!
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Tricking the AI into the thinking the racing line or track is 15% wider for the first lap might sort out the problem.  That way they may spread out going into the first few corners, rather than funnelling, practically single-file, down the racing line.  Trouble is modders cannot access the code.  Seeing as it's the last year CM will use this engine and it's certainly paid for itself, they could be good sports and allow us access to the relevant files for modding.
it would be a short fix yes but youd have the ai trying to go 2 cars wide into every single corner and dive bombing you everywhere   and probably taking you out on the first lap, we'll just have to wait hopefully the next engine for 2015 will be far more advance and be able to solve this issue 
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I think a lot of the problem is people having no fear of throwing cars into first corner. There is no risk with flashbacks and restart race options. That's not an option in real life so the drivers don't take the same risks. 90% of the overtakes I have seen on YouTube are the same. Throw it into the apex and hope the ai gets out the way. 
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if they fixed the slow lap 1 pace id be nowhere lol running on hard/professional AI atm damm arthritic hands wont do any better then that i was kinda stuck between intermediate and pro pace for last 2 season games but yeah i can match them for first few laps then its trulli train time afterwards and specialy on the primes i cant make primes work like i could in previous games doh (regrets damaging said cripple hands when younger sigh)
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I do most of my racing against humans, but I do sympathise. However, I've yet to find a game which shows much evidence any of the "I" in AI..

Believe me, CM would fix this tomorrow and maybe the extra power of PS4/XB1 will help them, but as you can see from watching Project Cars youtube videos, the AI there are c r a p too. It does need a fresh approach though - get these guys gently weaving into gaps etc.
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Not saying it ok but when you look at every other game the AI in them are shocking most off the time. The only racing game I own where they are really quick is grid autosport and they worse than online at taking you out so never had good wheel to wheel racing with them. Forza are far worse than codies games as they drive in formation much more than the F1 games do and most of the time its the same driver order. Codies AI are very week in some areas but imo the best overall AI as I feel If I only overtake like I would if I was go-karting overtaking is much harder which makes the racing more enjoyable for me. Its far to easy seeing the whole track, cars around you, arrows showing the position of the driver then brake 50m later than the AI knowing they will avoid contact at all cost! Id love for them to defend like crazy and go for insane overtakes but no other game offers this so cant be to hard on them with what they had the last 5 years. Each year the AI do get quicker and are slightly improved and this year they must be quite quick if the league guys cant win in a midfield car like they have every other year. I might be wrong but from what they have all said in the videos they are having fun racing the AI this year so I for 1 cant wait to jump into carrer mode! Only 2 days left now :)

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It would probably be good if someone at CM could clarify why it is so difficult to make the AI competitive on lap 1. Apparantly it is difficult considdering this is the fifth game in a row where it's possible to make up quite a few places in the first lap (and particuarly the first corner), even without pushing that hard.

If @Hatta could respond here that would be great. I am curious for the reason. Is it track limits that AI respect and therefor slow down, or something else.
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Tricking the AI into the thinking the racing line or track is 15% wider for the first lap might sort out the problem.  That way they may spread out going into the first few corners, rather than funnelling, practically single-file, down the racing line.  Trouble is modders cannot access the code.  Seeing as it's the last year CM will use this engine and it's certainly paid for itself, they could be good sports and allow us access to the relevant files for modding.
Theres no way there going to allow their code to go public the people who make Project Cars & Assetto Corsa would take it figure out the code and change a few lines.  Since all that happens in both those games are the cars running inton one another and ripping the cars apart.
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Tricking the AI into the thinking the racing line or track is 15% wider for the first lap might sort out the problem.  That way they may spread out going into the first few corners, rather than funnelling, practically single-file, down the racing line.  Trouble is modders cannot access the code.  Seeing as it's the last year CM will use this engine and it's certainly paid for itself, they could be good sports and allow us access to the relevant files for modding.
Theres no way there going to allow their code to go public the people who make Project Cars & Assetto Corsa would take it figure out the code and change a few lines.  Since all that happens in both those games are the cars running inton one another and ripping the cars apart.

But they've finished with this game engine.  What harm can it do if it goes into the public domain?  t doesn't need to be all of it, just the files relating to A.I.  They should let it be studied, so others can learn, it was a very good engine. They've gotten five year's use and a lot of money out of it.  Tweaking 2014 would keep us happy until 2015 :)
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Tricking the AI into the thinking the racing line or track is 15% wider for the first lap might sort out the problem.  That way they may spread out going into the first few corners, rather than funnelling, practically single-file, down the racing line.  Trouble is modders cannot access the code.  Seeing as it's the last year CM will use this engine and it's certainly paid for itself, they could be good sports and allow us access to the relevant files for modding.
Theres no way there going to allow their code to go public the people who make Project Cars & Assetto Corsa would take it figure out the code and change a few lines.  Since all that happens in both those games are the cars running inton one another and ripping the cars apart.

But they've finished with this game engine.  What harm can it do if it goes into the public domain?  t doesn't need to be all of it, just the files relating to A.I.  They should let it be studied, so others can learn, it was a very good engine. They've gotten five year's use and a lot of money out of it.  Tweaking 2014 would keep us happy until 2015 :)
When they say F1 2015 will be "starting from a clean sheet", it's not literal. For example, some of the "engine" in F1 2014 will date right back to Toca Touring Cars - in fact, you can tell by the way the AI still has a tiny bit of the attitude from TOCA (Maldonado springs to mind). If you've got PC, check the car files out - as I recall "T-cam" is in there as "bonnet cam". 

I'd say the term "New stage of evolution" would be more appropriate and no way are they giving their competition their roots. They can however add more intelligence to what's already there, especially with more powerful CPU.
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But they've finished with this game engine.  What harm can it do if it goes into the public domain?  t doesn't need to be all of it, just the files relating to A.I.  They should let it be studied, so others can learn, it was a very good engine. They've gotten five year's use and a lot of money out of it.  Tweaking 2014 would keep us happy until 2015 :)
You've been banging on about this for a while now with obviously no response from Codies. CM will never let their competition learn their AI without a heavy sum of money involved. This is their biggest advantage over other racers.
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For the life of me, I cannot believe that people are saying it is acceptable to purposely not overtake cars on lap 1 to get enjoyment out of the game.
Thats like having an open goal in the first few minutes of a FIFA match and missing on purpose to make it a closer match.

its suggestions like that, that make Codemasters think people are satisfied with below par AI and so they don't need to improve it. 
Its quite simple to make AI cars on the inside realise that there is sufficient gap to move into.. I've seen games like Forza 4 with AI that actively seek space and opportunities to overtake. 
To the idiot who said that cars shouldn't be 2-3 wide at every corner? Go watch the last race from Sunday. They were 2-3 wide for 3 laps! They settle in and gaps appear. 

If you charge £40 for each unit of your product that you have apparently spent a whole year designing. This is something basic you'd expect to work at the very least!
ive never seen a game that would require the player to have to 'hold back' for a period of time to play the game properly! Sorry, but that's absolute stupidity!!

the very purpose of a racing game is to 'race' and 'overtake'. You think we should purposely not do that just because Codemaster's have a flaw in their design?
tell them you're not happy to 'workaround' things and maybe (long shot as always) it will be fixed.
No one's saying it's acceptable, just that it's the best way to get full enjoyment out of the game. Seriously try and name one game where the AI isn't easy to overtake on the first lap. There is no such game.
I play Forza a lot and they absolutely do not actively seek space and opportunities to overtake as you say. Forza and Gran Turismo are probably the worst racing games for it! Even worse so as they do it on every lap of the race rather than just the first.
If it was as easy to fix as people here make it out to be, then don't you think it would have already been done? Clearly it isn't easy as no company has found a way to do it yet.
Yes that is what you're supposed to do, but when the AI is trying to replicate how drivers race in real life and the player is doing what no driver would ever do just because they know it's safe to do so then you're going to get these problems.
Until a company finds a solution to it and you don't want to at least try and treat the game as if it were real (which is what most sim racers want isn't it?) then you're most likely going to be disappointed with the AI in every racing game there is. We just have to hope the new gen tech can help this somewhat.
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Dez0808 said:
I've noticed in a lot of YouTube videos people gaining places at first corner and then spend rest of race holding the ai up or falling back. No kers should help ai over take. You could counter act drs with full kers in 2013 
That's because people dive through corners and earn positions through exploiting AI stupidity, and sometimes they bump their way through the crowd. This results in them being in a position where their pace is too slow compared to the AI around them. The AI in front of the player leave him or her behind, while the AI behind the player are too passive to make risky overtakes, or the player yet again exploits AI stupidity by driving in such a way that they know the AI won't overtake, whereas a player with a literal brain would have.
They win the race on intelligence and the ability to predict the AI, rather than pure pace.
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hola said:
Setups the same again for the fifth time. 3-1; 11-1/11-11; 3-8; etc etc... Good job Steve once again
Setups are actually much easier now lol no more gearbox...only part of my setup i really had to work on in f1 2013, rest were basically 1-1/11-11 etc etc
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