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Balancing the books

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I really feel for the devs reading this forum. There's so many people whinging on here about the most obscure little details it's unreal.
 
Its human nature to only shout about something when your unhappy with it, and you never hear from the masses who are satisfied, so here's a little attempt to rebalance that. 

There is more moaning on this forum than on both forzas and project cars 2 forums put together, and both of those games have much more bigger issues that impact on gameplay, and in Forzas case, the devs don't even communicate at all. When f1 released the biggest problems were also patched extremely quickly by comparison.

I don't know where all the moaning is coming from, whether it's spoilt kids, people who play online with a controller or what.
But what I do know, is as a wheel user who only plays career, on Xbox one X, this racing game is outstanding. Both in looks and performance, and the force feedback (which is so hard to get right) is spot on, as with CM's other recent titles...even a flagship studio run by MS can't get that right 7 games later.

Codies, I for one appreciate the obvious love and attention that has gone into this game, (especially from the FFB guys) and I hope you continue to knock out these amazing racing games. You can rest assured there's plenty more who feel the same, you just can't hear them. 


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You misconstrue moaning for frustration. 

If you are happy that's wonderful.

But many aren't 

They paid 50+ pounds/dollars/euros, possibly money for a subscription to play online (console), maybe even a new wheel.

So when things interrupt their game, and then something else goes wrong, causes by bugs that shouldn't be in a game series Codemasters have been making for nearly a decade, 3 years of which is on a new engine, and when they ask for a little advice or clarification from the official forum they are ignored for weeks and then finally belittled when someone eventually bothers to answer...well that might be okay to some, me, I think it's pretty poor.

I personally don't play online, so those issues don't affect me, but I understand the frustration of those who do and j support their right to an explanation.

I haven't experienced much of an issue with the team mate bug, but accept many have, and they deserve answers.

I did find the safety car bug an annoyance...so I turned it off...but many felt like why should they, it should work.

Ultimately, the issue has gone from fairly standard, well natured inquiry into bugs and polite questions about the game, into more angry demands for answers after a total lack of awareness and accountability by Codemasters.

If you've been on the General Discussion page this last few weeks you'll have seen it turn. 

If you haven't trust me, it's not whining. 

So yes, praise them for the good stuff but hold them accountable for the bad stuff too...that's only fair.


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fishaac said:

There is more moaning on this forum than on both forzas and project cars 2 forums put together, and both of those games have much more bigger issues that impact on gameplay, and in Forzas case, the devs don't even communicate at all. When f1 released the biggest problems were also patched extremely quickly by comparison.


I fail to see the relevance of those games to the issues discussed on this forum. I've never actually played Project Cars or Forza. Just because another game *might* be more buggy, it doesn't mean that CM gets a free pass.

 I'm sure if you reported a burglary to the police, they wouldn't tell you "I'm sorry your house was burgled and you lost some valuables but there was another burglary where the victim lost more than you did, so we're only going to deal with his case. I'm alive and well though, thanks! Nice try! Case closed"

 I'm sure you wouldn't be showing the police much love in that case.

 Regards, a (rather old) spoilt kid.

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You misconstrue moaning for frustration. 

If you are happy that's wonderful.

But many aren't 

They paid 50+ pounds/dollars/euros, possibly money for a subscription to play online (console), maybe even a new wheel.

So when things interrupt their game, and then something else goes wrong, causes by bugs that shouldn't be in a game series Codemasters have been making for nearly a decade, 3 years of which is on a new engine, and when they ask for a little advice or clarification from the official forum they are ignored for weeks and then finally belittled when someone eventually bothers to answer...well that might be okay to some, me, I think it's pretty poor.

I personally don't play online, so those issues don't affect me, but I understand the frustration of those who do and j support their right to an explanation.

I haven't experienced much of an issue with the team mate bug, but accept many have, and they deserve answers.

I did find the safety car bug an annoyance...so I turned it off...but many felt like why should they, it should work.

Ultimately, the issue has gone from fairly standard, well natured inquiry into bugs and polite questions about the game, into more angry demands for answers after a total lack of awareness and accountability by Codemasters.

If you've been on the General Discussion page this last few weeks you'll have seen it turn. 

If you haven't trust me, it's not whining. 

So yes, praise them for the good stuff but hold them accountable for the bad stuff too...that's only fair.


Agree on all points. I just find the ratio of praise / critiscm unfair 

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fishaac said:
I really feel for the devs reading this forum. There's so many people whinging on here about the most obscure little details it's unreal.
 
Its human nature to only shout about something when your unhappy with it, and you never hear from the masses who are satisfied, so here's a little attempt to rebalance that. 

There is more moaning on this forum than on both forzas and project cars 2 forums put together, and both of those games have much more bigger issues that impact on gameplay, and in Forzas case, the devs don't even communicate at all. When f1 released the biggest problems were also patched extremely quickly by comparison.

I don't know where all the moaning is coming from, whether it's spoilt kids, people who play online with a controller or what.
But what I do know, is as a wheel user who only plays career, on Xbox one X, this racing game is outstanding. Both in looks and performance, and the force feedback (which is so hard to get right) is spot on, as with CM's other recent titles...even a flagship studio run by MS can't get that right 7 games later.

Codies, I for one appreciate the obvious love and attention that has gone into this game, (especially from the FFB guys) and I hope you continue to knock out these amazing racing games. You can rest assured there's plenty more who feel the same, you just can't hear them. 


I completely agree with you. I'm still disappointed that the Teammate bug isn't getting fixed, but I just started a new Career a few days ago and honestly, its not the biggest deal in the world. Apart from 1-off glitches I've seen people have, which every game ever made EVER has, Career mode is still so much fun and I certainly plan to get through all 10 seasons. CM are great developers, but it's just the fact they have to release a game every year which is what makes it hard. I almost wanna see them take a CoD approach and have FOM contract a 2nd developer to start making F1 games, so CM and some other dev can alternate years thus allowing a full extra year of production and still allow F1 games every year.

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TAKIINOUE said:
fishaac said:

There is more moaning on this forum than on both forzas and project cars 2 forums put together, and both of those games have much more bigger issues that impact on gameplay, and in Forzas case, the devs don't even communicate at all. When f1 released the biggest problems were also patched extremely quickly by comparison.


I fail to see the relevance of those games to the issues discussed on this forum. I've never actually played Project Cars or Forza. Just because another game *might* be more buggy, it doesn't mean that CM gets a free pass.

 I'm sure if you reported a burglary to the police, they wouldn't tell you "I'm sorry your house was burgled and you lost some valuables but there was another burglary where the victim lost more than you did, so we're only going to deal with his case. I'm alive and well though, thanks! Nice try! Case closed"

 I'm sure you wouldn't be showing the police much love in that case.

 Regards, a (rather old) spoilt kid.
It's relevant to me because I enjoy simracing, I bought all titles when they released within the same time frame, and f1 has been the better all round product to date. 

Comparing a video game to a burglary is kind of my point here..

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The comparison is not actually between a game and a burglary, it was to show that just because x is bad, it doesn't mean that y being bad is acceptable. 

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All I can speak from is my own experience which has been very positive with f1. 
They patched the big issues quickly, with the exception of the more recent problems they couldn't fix they have communicated well, and it's my go to wheel game, something I really didn't expect.

Again, in my humble opinion, true pain is having a vested interest in the forza franchise. Every time they balls it up, every time they ignore the community and don't respond, every time they get so close to getting it right and miss the mark. 
SMS always release project cars about 3 months too early and whilst it ends up great about 3 patches later it's a hot mess on launch, but at least they interact with the community, even the CEO makes a regular appearance. 

I'm not saying all that makes CM's ignorance of  late acceptable, but In my opinion they could be a hell of a lot worse and are the best of a bad bunch let's say 

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fishaac said:
All I can speak from is my own experience which has been very positive with f1. 
They patched the big issues quickly, with the exception of the more recent problems they couldn't fix they have communicated well, and it's my go to wheel game, something I really didn't expect.

Again, in my humble opinion, true pain is having a vested interest in the forza franchise. Every time they balls it up, every time they ignore the community and don't respond, every time they get so close to getting it right and miss the mark. 
SMS always release project cars about 3 months too early and whilst it ends up great about 3 patches later it's a hot mess on launch, but at least they interact with the community, even the CEO makes a regular appearance. 

I'm not saying all that makes CM's ignorance of  late acceptable, but In my opinion they could be a hell of a lot worse and are the best of a bad bunch let's say 
Sorry, you think that they've "communicated well" about recent issues?

Are you trolling, or just assuming that is the case but not knowing for sure?

Trust me, they haven't done much of anything until very recently, and only then after weeks of not communicating at all.

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The issue is, a new F1 game is released every year.  And every year, there are problems.

When it becomes unacceptable, is when bugs won't get fixed "because we don't have time", and then the whole thing gets abandoned because they're too busy working on F1 2018, and nothing that's wrong with F1 2017 (and believe me, there is plenty) will ever get fixed.  It happens every year.  Repeat ad nauseam.

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No I'm not trolling I'm sharing an opinion. 

I regularly visit the forums for all 3 of these titles I'm talking about for updates and news.
its been quite comical to see 90,000 comments complaining about force feedback on the forza forum that have all landed on deaf ears, or people maturely discussing issues on the PC2 forum that literally make the game unplayable, to then hop into here and people are going nuts because your engine upgrade doesn't apply to your team mate, or vettels gloves or the wrong colour! 

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fishaac said:
No I'm not trolling I'm sharing an opinion. 

I regularly visit the forums for all 3 of these titles I'm talking about for updates and news.
its been quite comical to see 90,000 comments complaining about force feedback on the forza forum that have all landed on deaf ears, or people maturely discussing issues on the PC2 forum that literally make the game unplayable, to then hop into here and people are going nuts because your engine upgrade doesn't apply to your team mate, or vettels gloves or the wrong colour! 

I understand to an extent what your saying. Lets not be confused between something that's trivial and a genuine issue such as DSQ's after the end of a race. Deployments of the safety car at 100% distances thankfully the former have been fixed including a 4k HDR upgrade. Apart from minor issues with the safety car at 50%/100% distances and other issues within the game. F1 2017 is almost bang on centre target.  

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fishaac said:
No I'm not trolling I'm sharing an opinion. 

I regularly visit the forums for all 3 of these titles I'm talking about for updates and news.
its been quite comical to see 90,000 comments complaining about force feedback on the forza forum that have all landed on deaf ears, or people maturely discussing issues on the PC2 forum that literally make the game unplayable, to then hop into here and people are going nuts because your engine upgrade doesn't apply to your team mate, or vettels gloves or the wrong colour! 
If you visit regularly you would know that it stopped being about the game a week or two back and became about the deafening silence from Codemasters in regards any fix for those issues.

Had they answered reasonably promptly, regardless of the answer, it would have remained part of everyday forum discourse.

But they didn't.

And it got some of us really annoyed, because it felt like they were just laughing at us. 

P.S just because other games have a terrible attitude to feedback doesn't mean that excuses anything. 
This is the official game of f1.
A global brand worth billions, made by a studio that has been making games for decades.
We should expect more...but that's just my opinion. 

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fishaac said:
I really feel for the devs reading this forum

I really feel for people who paid full retail price for the game only to have to deal with so many gameplay-impacting issues instead of having the fun they were hoping to have.

fishaac said:
Its human nature to only shout about something when your unhappy with it, and you never hear from the masses who are satisfied

Lots of people spoke up about how satisfied they are in Steam user reviews & Amazon customer reviews.

fishaac said:
I don't know where all the moaning is coming from, whether it's spoilt kids, people who play online with a controller or what

Start a thread to say something nice only to make negative assumptions about those who don't share your opinion about a video game? You do know that issues have been verified via screenshots and/or videos and/or collective agreement and/or direct acknowledgement from CodeMasters, right? It's not like people are just making this stuff up.

fishaac said:
All I can speak from is my own experience which has been very positive

All anyone else speaks from is their experience too, which, for some, has been negative. Very few (if any) are "moaning" just to have a go at CodeMasters. Players are passionate about the game & the sport, and they feel they deserve better functional quality & service for their money instead of bugs & the silent treatment.

fishaac said:
In my opinion they could be a hell of a lot worse

In my opinion, they could do better.

fishaac said:
No I'm not trolling I'm sharing an opinion.

Same goes for others: just sharing their opinions - same as you're doing. Speaking out about game problems helps get those problems acknowledged & (hopefully) resolved, which (hopefully) results in better games for everyone. Everybody wins. The alternative is to keep quiet or keep praising, and let games keep getting worse. Personally, I want better games.

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I love F1 2017, but quite frankly, to CM (and any gamestudio) any thread detailing what people are unhappy with is simply going to be more useful to them than any thread about how great the game is. And it's true that there are probably many people quietly enjoying their game, but that doesn't mean that people that aren't enjoying the game should keep quiet.

I think you have to ask yourself what you're actually trying to accomplish. CM doesn't need happy players to defend them on the forums, they really don't. They don't need the ratio of happy vs unhappy posters to represent the ratio of happy vs unhappy players either.

If we get to say how happy we are with the game, then people who aren't happy get the same right to express themselves.

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I'm not trying to accomplish anything.

I'm very happy with this game. And after having a quick look at the complaints on here (the majority of which ive seen are petty) I felt like shouting it from the rooftops. 
Yes a dev needs to hear from it's community what they've got wrong, but they also need to hear what they've got right, and that voice is too quiet on the forums.

None of the issues that this game has breaks it for me or detracts from the gameplay in anyway whatsoever. The issues it released with ruined it for me yes, but they reacted very quickly. 

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fishaac said:
I'm not trying to accomplish anything.

I'm very happy with this game. And after having a quick look at the complaints on here (the majority of which ive seen are petty) I felt like shouting it from the rooftops. 
Yes a dev needs to hear from it's community what they've got wrong, but they also need to hear what they've got right, and that voice is too quiet on the forums.

None of the issues that this game has breaks it for me or detracts from the gameplay in anyway whatsoever. The issues it released with ruined it for me yes, but they reacted very quickly. 
Except when any mention of anything you liked doesn't start until the fourth paragraph, well after you're ranting and complaining about how other people are ranting and complaining, this becomes less of a post detailing what you like (especially without any actual, you know, details), and more an attempt to shut up people that have different wishes and priorities than you have.

It's very possible to give your own thoughts without trivializing those of others.

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"It's very possible to give your own thoughts without trivializing those of others"

precisely 

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I totally agree with you. The reality is that probably on 30% of the people that purchase the game even take the time to come into the forums. I have a few issues with the game but overall they do a great job and I play TT, career, grand prix and multi player with a wheel no assists. Being that I went to school for programming (even thou i work in a completly different field) i understand the complexity of fixing one bug that creates another. Thanks CM for a great game. The development aspect of the career is amazing, in have not ran into the teammate issue but that may be due to me being on red bull.

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I play with a wheel and no assists aswell so maybe that's where the game truly excels.
I also love the development aspect, I'm slowly improving my McLarens engine whilst waiting for a better offer, and it doesn't bother me that Alonso is still suffering at the back / retiring every other race, I just tell myself as the no1 driver I'm getting all the upgrades! 
Nice to hear from someone enjoying it as much as me. 

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The game is a representation of a sport. The teammate bug is a huge issue it breaks the immersion of the sport. I bought a expensive wheel and the game to play a accurate representation of the sport. 

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This is what a forum is. There is no productivity in simply stating its a good game.

People inform of issues and bugs, so you'll get all the negative things. Just adding to that is how many suffer the same issues and how/if it is getting handled.

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