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What the hell happened codemasters?

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Nov. 2, 2017
ChristinaMc said:
Yes, a lot of our resource has been focused on F1 these past few months (with it being an annual title, it always gets crazy for F1 due to how much needs doing in such a small amount of time) - but there is more to it than that. Our hands have been tied somewhat when it comes to DiRT 4; for example, we've been working on a really cool competitive thing, but we have partners for this which means we have agreements to be signed, plans to be made, and NDAs in place around it. This is stuff you will hear about!! But, it's stuff we have to be vague on until the inevitable embargo lifts. 

On updating the game: Clubs is coming (and we're sorry about how late that is - we've hit all sorts of hurdles when trying to get the features polished) and if all goes well that'll be here in a couple of weeks - and with it a fairly large patch too. Speaking candidly, there are a lot of moving parts behind the scenes at the moment, and while we're working on things you've fed back on, whether or not we can realistically bring it to this project is the question. Alas, these are decisions made by the people who make the big bucks and allocate where the big bucks go internally. 

Again, I'm sorry this isn't the news you're all hoping for, and I am wildly aware that it's still rather vague - but seeing as though I'm not in the business of making things up or over-promising, I hope this goes someway to explaining the quietness! 

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"Soon" " a couple of weeks" that are quotes that just don't last half a year.

I am stil greatfull for the stunning dirt rally that codemasters gave us. But every goodwill cm build with that is gone.

Dirt4 patches for christmas? No thanks to late.

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I would like to say that I would do the same, but then I would be lying. I’d buy it on day one because I’m a sucker for Rally games. And in all honesty I didn’t think DiRT4 was all that bad. Just not as good as DiRT Rally
D4 is better than DR in everyway. The only thing I miss from DR is a couple countries in the roster. DR track boundaries were atrocious that'd send you to the moon for no reason. And the limited track selection made the game very repetitive and quickly took the biggest part out of rally: "a circuit driver sees a turn a thousand times. A rally driver sees a thousand turns once" and lets not forget how terrible Sweden was on DR. 
That quote works for actual rally, but not really for DiRT 4, because you often see the same turn multiple times in a single stage, which is actually worse than DiRT Rally. Also, RWD is a big step down in D4. You can't have a Stratos or an Escort MKII that won't slide properly, it just feels wrong


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Didzis said:
I would like to say that I would do the same, but then I would be lying. I’d buy it on day one because I’m a sucker for Rally games. And in all honesty I didn’t think DiRT4 was all that bad. Just not as good as DiRT Rally
D4 is better than DR in everyway. The only thing I miss from DR is a couple countries in the roster. DR track boundaries were atrocious that'd send you to the moon for no reason. And the limited track selection made the game very repetitive and quickly took the biggest part out of rally: "a circuit driver sees a turn a thousand times. A rally driver sees a thousand turns once" and lets not forget how terrible Sweden was on DR. 
That quote works for actual rally, but not really for DiRT 4, because you often see the same turn multiple times in a single stage, which is actually worse than DiRT Rally. Also, RWD is a big step down in D4. You can't have a Stratos or an Escort MKII that won't slide properly, it just feels wrong


Do a 10 stage event in Wales D4 you'd feel you have done the same stage 10 times. It's by far the most repetetive event.

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bogani said:
Didzis said:
I would like to say that I would do the same, but then I would be lying. I’d buy it on day one because I’m a sucker for Rally games. And in all honesty I didn’t think DiRT4 was all that bad. Just not as good as DiRT Rally
D4 is better than DR in everyway. The only thing I miss from DR is a couple countries in the roster. DR track boundaries were atrocious that'd send you to the moon for no reason. And the limited track selection made the game very repetitive and quickly took the biggest part out of rally: "a circuit driver sees a turn a thousand times. A rally driver sees a thousand turns once" and lets not forget how terrible Sweden was on DR. 
That quote works for actual rally, but not really for DiRT 4, because you often see the same turn multiple times in a single stage, which is actually worse than DiRT Rally. Also, RWD is a big step down in D4. You can't have a Stratos or an Escort MKII that won't slide properly, it just feels wrong


Do a 10 stage event in Wales D4 you'd feel you have done the same stage 10 times. It's by far the most repetetive event.
You don't need 10 stages. I remember after the second stage in the Global Rally Series championship I could remember every tile in the location. And worst of all, I could recognise what was coming because the trackside scenario looked always sort of the same. And the only times I couldn't recognise the scenario I'd crash out because of late pacenotes. 
And to add to the boring stages there's no trackside objects that make you feel like you're going anywhere. It always feel like the only thing in the entire map is your road, and the rest of the objects have spawned nearby consequently. No houses, no mountains, no rivers, no lakes, no big crowds... it feels lifeless. Apart from the drones, who apparently have self awareness and an unstoppable will to crash into your front bumper or cause you a hearth attack

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Funny fact.
On steam, many users who just bought the game on sale complain about the other users.
"If the game is abandoned, that's because you're DR fanboys, shame on you DR Fanboys, this game is perfect!".

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Guys, let's face it, this is what happened:

- Codies were excited prior to release, they have done some cool stuff with the new tile system.
- Intitial reviews were good.
- But the initial sales weren't as good as expected.
- Then came the backlash from customers
- Sales and active players nosedived
- Customers were dissapointed (physics, tiles...)
- Devs were dissapointed (customers, sales...)
- Bosses were dissapointed (sales, devs...)
- Bosses ordered to put every D4 work to a full stop. Maybe the team got suspended and/or assigned to other projects.
- Here we are.
This probably. Plus the fact that F1 sells more, so it makes more sense to move the team to working on that. Maybe once peak F1 season is over (I think we are nearing that) they will come back to the Dirt stuff.

I don't think sales of racing games in general are looking that good at the moment. Pcars 2 hasn't looked great at all. Which is a shame as although PCars has its issues I would hate to see it go. At the moment I would be surprised if we see a Pcars 3. Forza/GT have been discounted heavily to support console sales. It just feels like something fresh/new is needed in racing games to drive sales. I thought codies had it with VR - loads of people say their VR implementation on Rally was great, but we haven't seen anything for Dirt 4 and F1 (tbf I think Playstation VR will struggle with F1).

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if you guys are unable to understand things before purchase is not devs fault, but your fault. the day D4 was released and even before a lot of gameplay videos and streamers showed what you guys cry about, the tile repetition. to me it was clear and even if it was disappointing i purchased D4 regardless. i have a great fun running each time without knowing what's next, although i agree the landscape is not awesome.

some of you still complains about rwd, physic, handling... while everywhere you can find setups to fix the "problem", because yes, it's not a problem if setups are made to a more wider audience, with gamer mode in mind, it's just a choice. maybe  CM fault was to not put different presets to better fit each driving style but my complains are others (also it's fun to achieve a good handmade setup honestly).

this game needs fixes mostly to AI times and QoL features. i remember problems in the online enviroment after the release that caused the online community to quit, it's not rewarding if the experience is not fluid. they reacted and fixed most of the issues, then the "offline" experience was left behind.

now we are waiting for a patch, i mostly wait for fixes, someone for clubs (i m curious of how many clubs will be made...)

imho D4 is a great product on paper, problems occurred and the community cried so loud that the company is obviously reluctant to support the game even more. it could have been the E-sport rally game of all times, maybe with more stages, competitions, support and dlc, i m sure they thought about it.

but after this community reaction i understand how managers feel, you tried something new, the reaction was disappointing, let's move on.

ty all (sim community pfff...)

p.s. the only complain i can understand is the lack of VR, personally i don't have it but coming from DR i can understand how it feels

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if you guys are unable to understand things before purchase is not devs fault, but your fault. the day D4 was released and even before a lot of gameplay videos and streamers showed what you guys cry about, the tile repetition. to me it was clear and even if it was disappointing i purchased D4 regardless. i have a great fun running each time without knowing what's next, although i agree the landscape is not awesome.

some of you still complains about rwd, physic, handling... while everywhere you can find setups to fix the "problem", because yes, it's not a problem if setups are made to a more wider audience, with gamer mode in mind, it's just a choice. maybe  CM fault was to not put different presets to better fit each driving style but my complains are others (also it's fun to achieve a good handmade setup honestly).

this game needs fixes mostly to AI times and QoL features. i remember problems in the online enviroment after the release that caused the online community to quit, it's not rewarding if the experience is not fluid. they reacted and fixed most of the issues, then the "offline" experience was left behind.

now we are waiting for a patch, i mostly wait for fixes, someone for clubs (i m curious of how many clubs will be made...)

imho D4 is a great product on paper, problems occurred and the community cried so loud that the company is obviously reluctant to support the game even more. it could have been the E-sport rally game of all times, maybe with more stages, competitions, support and dlc, i m sure they thought about it.

but after this community reaction i understand how managers feel, you tried something new, the reaction was disappointing, let's move on.

ty all (sim community pfff...)

p.s. the only complain i can understand is the lack of VR, personally i don't have it but coming from DR i can understand how it feels
points:

- 50% of users says the game is flat and boring, you're complaining the users to buy a game marketed as "bigger better and bolder than DR" and to watch the gameplays carefully. Also track-gen is the most predictable experience since "Proving Ground" in NFS 2,        Re-Volt has a better track editor
- If it's so easy to "fix" the problem, why the hell no-one did this in CM devs department?!
Also, "funny to achieve a good setup"?! I've spent more hours in setup menus than into the RX/Landrush career
- What about the co-pilot, the sponsor nonsenses and the "free rally" which is not free but based always on your career?

- they didn't tried anything new, dude, they've just tried to attract the casual gamer rushing and reskinning an old game, promising support and lying all around the place.

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"- 50% of users says the game is flat and boring, you're complaining the users to buy a game marketed as "bigger better and bolder than DR" and to watch the gameplays carefully."

yes, it's what i do before purchasing a game. i look at reviews, opinions, gameplay. i try to get an idea and if i like it i buy it. i m not that rich to afford everything i want so i prefer buy few games that can appeal to me. i try to avoid to jump on the hype train, preorders and such, and for sure i don't trust on slogans.

i don't complain people who don't like a game. everyone has rights to have his own opinion, i complain when people pretend the game they blindly bought to be different from what they thought. i hate when people instead of giving constructive feedback just cry and scream like kids. not referred to you but in this forum, on steam and on reddit i saw a lot of negativity, and frankly D4 doesn't deserve it.
 it's not the best game of all times but not that bad.
i mean, i like it, and i m not alone, you don't, you are not alone. it's ok, ask a refund, peace. 
but no, they like to cry

"- If it's so easy to "fix" the problem, why the hell no-one did this in CM devs department?!"

what  are you talkin about? do you understand what i've said?
 and yes, i enjoy tuning cars, i like to spend time finetuning setups, trying different config to see what is better for my driving style and fast enough.  also twitching the livery (although the tool is not very big). probably you don't know how to do so efficently. i can only suggest to try some community made setups or read/watch some tutorials. there is a good site with suggestions, i'll try to search it and link.

EDIT: this is the link https://allvirtualracing.com/index.php?/forums/forum/34-dirt-4-setups/

about the copilot i agree (not gamebreaking tho, i learnt to look at symbols), same for sponsors and  chief engineer with 40 fixed skill level in the "free rally". those, along with the AI behaviour in some cars, are fixes i m looking for.

 but as i said, at this point, sadly, i can understand why devs moved on

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For me, games that I don’t preorder, or get wrapped up in media hype, or ultimately research at a minimum always seem to give me the most pleasure.  I missed all of the pre launch media and picked up both DR and D4 this summer.  Love them both. Granted I’ve picked up some duds this way, but at least my disappointment factor was exponentially lower.

Anyone that is disappointed with D4 needs to play the weeklies this week. Great stages and they don’t feel stale.  Just a suggestion though, the monthly could go with less fog and less service stages, like 3 or 4 (not 6).  

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@danielhoglan I get what you're saying. But even for fixes some of which are pretty important in a Rally game (pace notes for ex) should have been addressed long ago. I'm an optimistic person but you have to admit, 5 months after release and we're still at this point? 

And while we're at it, what is more profitable? Develop a game, release it, throw a hot fix or two out and turn your back on it?

Or...

Develop a game, put out fixes that are within the scope of the project (giving some leeway here in case tweaking physics or adding tiles are too much), show interest in the game' s future (social media) and possible throw a few bones in the way of clubs, skins etc and then release additional content in the way of DLC's. Car packs, tracks, locations etc.

To me the latter make a whole lot of sense and to me would yield more profit and build a player base.  Then again, who am I? Just a dumb consumer that won't be so dumb when the next title is released.

Steam Sale 60% off. $23 for Dirt 4. That should tell you something.

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if you guys are unable to understand things before purchase is not devs fault, but your fault. the day D4 was released and even before a lot of gameplay videos and streamers showed what you guys cry about, the tile repetition. to me it was clear and even if it was disappointing i purchased D4 regardless.
I hate when people say shit like this. Poor punctuation, and a hell of a run on sentence.

But seriously, I have to read reviews, look at gameplay, and research literally everything before I buy a game? If I already know everything about a game, what possible motivation do I have to buy it? At that point there's nothing new for me to experience. I have at least 4 games in my wish list I've personally seen NOTHING about because I want to experience it myself.
I also agree that coming hot off the heels of the massive success of the diamond in the rough DiRT Rally makes DiRT 4 look a WHOLE hell of a lot more appetizing. And you know what? It's not terrible. But you know what else? It could be improved. And with the entire development cycle of DR being based around community feedback AND involving entirely redone physics in the middle of a massive time crunch... it's not that far fetched to say "Hey, we like 90% of this game, could you just TWEAK the other 10% to make it awesome?"

Dev's recently have started to push out inferior or incomplete packages, only to SOMETIMES try and fix them after launch.
dirt3joe said:
Guys, let's face it, this is what happened:

- Codies were excited prior to release, they have done some cool stuff with the new tile system.
- Intitial reviews were good.
- But the initial sales weren't as good as expected.
- Then came the backlash from customers
- Sales and active players nosedived
- Customers were dissapointed (physics, tiles...)
- Devs were dissapointed (customers, sales...)
- Bosses were dissapointed (sales, devs...)
- Bosses ordered to put every D4 work to a full stop. Maybe the team got suspended and/or assigned to other projects.
- Here we are.
This probably. Plus the fact that F1 sells more, so it makes more sense to move the team to working on that. Maybe once peak F1 season is over (I think we are nearing that) they will come back to the Dirt stuff.

I don't think sales of racing games in general are looking that good at the moment. Pcars 2 hasn't looked great at all. Which is a shame as although PCars has its issues I would hate to see it go. At the moment I would be surprised if we see a Pcars 3. Forza/GT have been discounted heavily to support console sales. It just feels like something fresh/new is needed in racing games to drive sales. I thought codies had it with VR - loads of people say their VR implementation on Rally was great, but we haven't seen anything for Dirt 4 and F1 (tbf I think Playstation VR will struggle with F1).
The F1 team and the DiRT teams should be/are 2 separate entities. they weren't pulled off of DR AFAIK to fix the apparent dumpster fire that was F1 2015 AND 2016. That argument holds very little water, but I also don't have F1 2017 to see if they're still constantly making patches.

I'd also attribute poor racing sales to poor games. PCars basically screwed themselves from the start, though I agree that PCars 2 is MUCH better. I was very adamant about not purchasing it unless the company made a lot of changes, especially Ian Bell, which they seem to have done.
Assetto Corsa is complete garbage on consoles, and mediocre on PC.
Forza apparently has a very disappointing handling model, moreso than the last few games I've heard. They've also added in microtransactions, loot boxes, and speed/perk cards, which is.... I just can't fathom why they thought that was a good idea.
I've just heard that GT is EXTREMELY mediocre and doesn't work very well at being a competitive platform... being the one thing it's designed to do.
DiRT 4 we obviously know about.
WRC 7 has mixed reviews, but apparently generally better than the usual garbage they put out.
I can't really think of any others right now.

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The F1 team and the DiRT teams should be/are 2 separate entities. they weren't pulled off of DR AFAIK to fix the apparent dumpster fire that was F1 2015 AND 2016. That argument holds very little water, but I also don't have F1 2017 to see if they're still constantly making patches.

Codies said themselves that F1 tends to grab the resources around this time of year so I don't quite know what you're on about there.

I guess it would be nice if they had separate development teams for each product, but the real world doesn't work like that. Programmers/artists etc are a resource that can be allocated across different product areas. There may be a core staff for each product such as the game designer etc. But these people are unlikely to be able to push the product forwards on their own.

I don't know about racing games being poor. I agree with a lot of what you say. Apart from GT, which appears to have been pretty well received even though it hasn't sold a great deal. Most of the mainstream gaming sites seem to show GT is well received on the multiplayer. Probably because the first party studios seem to be the only ones capable of producing a half decent multiplayer experience.

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dirt3joe said:
The F1 team and the DiRT teams should be/are 2 separate entities. they weren't pulled off of DR AFAIK to fix the apparent dumpster fire that was F1 2015 AND 2016. That argument holds very little water, but I also don't have F1 2017 to see if they're still constantly making patches.

Codies said themselves that F1 tends to grab the resources around this time of year so I don't quite know what you're on about there.

I guess it would be nice if they had separate development teams for each product, but the real world doesn't work like that. Programmers/artists etc are a resource that can be allocated across different product areas. There may be a core staff for each product such as the game designer etc. But these people are unlikely to be able to push the product forwards on their own.

I don't know about racing games being poor. I agree with a lot of what you say. Apart from GT, which appears to have been pretty well received even though it hasn't sold a great deal. Most of the mainstream gaming sites seem to show GT is well received on the multiplayer. Probably because the first party studios seem to be the only ones capable of producing a half decent multiplayer experience.

F1 2017's had upwards of 10 patches this year, as well as the world's biggest racing Esports Championship! So while in an ideal world we'd have entirely separate teams for every project, it's just not how that works in application. We have to borrow all sorts of people from different parts of the company to get things done, and that's certainly been the case this summer with all of the new games, Esports stuff and the new IP announcement!

Either way, the Clubs patch is coming very soon (I can confidently say next week now - and if not next week, certainly the week after!), alongside it some other fixes too. There's a Road Book in the works which will elaborate more - but genuinely, it's been rubbish for us to have been so quiet on the burning topics. More light will be shed soon and as things get quieter towards Christmas, we have the opportunity to take stock and see where we are with everything we've been working on.

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dirt3joe said:
The F1 team and the DiRT teams should be/are 2 separate entities. they weren't pulled off of DR AFAIK to fix the apparent dumpster fire that was F1 2015 AND 2016. That argument holds very little water, but I also don't have F1 2017 to see if they're still constantly making patches.

Codies said themselves that F1 tends to grab the resources around this time of year so I don't quite know what you're on about there.

I guess it would be nice if they had separate development teams for each product, but the real world doesn't work like that. Programmers/artists etc are a resource that can be allocated across different product areas. There may be a core staff for each product such as the game designer etc. But these people are unlikely to be able to push the product forwards on their own.

I don't know about racing games being poor. I agree with a lot of what you say. Apart from GT, which appears to have been pretty well received even though it hasn't sold a great deal. Most of the mainstream gaming sites seem to show GT is well received on the multiplayer. Probably because the first party studios seem to be the only ones capable of producing a half decent multiplayer experience.

F1 2017's had upwards of 10 patches this year, as well as the world's biggest racing Esports Championship! So while in an ideal world we'd have entirely separate teams for every project, it's just not how that works in application. We have to borrow all sorts of people from different parts of the company to get things done, and that's certainly been the case this summer with all of the new games, Esports stuff and the new IP announcement!

Either way, the Clubs patch is coming very soon (I can confidently say next week now - and if not next week, certainly the week after!), alongside it some other fixes too. There's a Road Book in the works which will elaborate more - but genuinely, it's been rubbish for us to have been so quiet on the burning topics. More light will be shed soon and as things get quieter towards Christmas, we have the opportunity to take stock and see where we are with everything we've been working on.
The funniest thing is it has 10 patches and it still manages to not work properly online :/

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dirt3joe said:
The F1 team and the DiRT teams should be/are 2 separate entities. they weren't pulled off of DR AFAIK to fix the apparent dumpster fire that was F1 2015 AND 2016. That argument holds very little water, but I also don't have F1 2017 to see if they're still constantly making patches.

Codies said themselves that F1 tends to grab the resources around this time of year so I don't quite know what you're on about there.

I guess it would be nice if they had separate development teams for each product, but the real world doesn't work like that. Programmers/artists etc are a resource that can be allocated across different product areas. There may be a core staff for each product such as the game designer etc. But these people are unlikely to be able to push the product forwards on their own.

I don't know about racing games being poor. I agree with a lot of what you say. Apart from GT, which appears to have been pretty well received even though it hasn't sold a great deal. Most of the mainstream gaming sites seem to show GT is well received on the multiplayer. Probably because the first party studios seem to be the only ones capable of producing a half decent multiplayer experience.

F1 2017's had upwards of 10 patches this year, as well as the world's biggest racing Esports Championship! So while in an ideal world we'd have entirely separate teams for every project, it's just not how that works in application. We have to borrow all sorts of people from different parts of the company to get things done, and that's certainly been the case this summer with all of the new games, Esports stuff and the new IP announcement!

Either way, the Clubs patch is coming very soon (I can confidently say next week now - and if not next week, certainly the week after!), alongside it some other fixes too. There's a Road Book in the works which will elaborate more - but genuinely, it's been rubbish for us to have been so quiet on the burning topics. More light will be shed soon and as things get quieter towards Christmas, we have the opportunity to take stock and see where we are with everything we've been working on.
Can't say "too late", i've waited 16 years to drive my first real race car, i can wait for 2 another weeks

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dirt3joe said:
The F1 team and the DiRT teams should be/are 2 separate entities. they weren't pulled off of DR AFAIK to fix the apparent dumpster fire that was F1 2015 AND 2016. That argument holds very little water, but I also don't have F1 2017 to see if they're still constantly making patches.

Codies said themselves that F1 tends to grab the resources around this time of year so I don't quite know what you're on about there.

I guess it would be nice if they had separate development teams for each product, but the real world doesn't work like that. Programmers/artists etc are a resource that can be allocated across different product areas. There may be a core staff for each product such as the game designer etc. But these people are unlikely to be able to push the product forwards on their own.

I don't know about racing games being poor. I agree with a lot of what you say. Apart from GT, which appears to have been pretty well received even though it hasn't sold a great deal. Most of the mainstream gaming sites seem to show GT is well received on the multiplayer. Probably because the first party studios seem to be the only ones capable of producing a half decent multiplayer experience.

F1 2017's had upwards of 10 patches this year, as well as the world's biggest racing Esports Championship! So while in an ideal world we'd have entirely separate teams for every project, it's just not how that works in application. We have to borrow all sorts of people from different parts of the company to get things done, and that's certainly been the case this summer with all of the new games, Esports stuff and the new IP announcement!


Whilst that's all well and good, I personally have zero interest in Formula 1, eSports and don't think there's much for me in the new IP, so whilst I realise that the company has limited resources and has to move things around, that does nothing to dispel the belief that you (I mean Codemasters, not you personally) have basically decided that the customers who spent their money on F1 have been given far better support than those of us who stick to rallying.




dirt3joe said:
The F1 team and the DiRT teams should be/are 2 separate entities. they weren't pulled off of DR AFAIK to fix the apparent dumpster fire that was F1 2015 AND 2016. That argument holds very little water, but I also don't have F1 2017 to see if they're still constantly making patches.

Codies said themselves that F1 tends to grab the resources around this time of year so I don't quite know what you're on about there.

I guess it would be nice if they had separate development teams for each product, but the real world doesn't work like that. Programmers/artists etc are a resource that can be allocated across different product areas. There may be a core staff for each product such as the game designer etc. But these people are unlikely to be able to push the product forwards on their own.

I don't know about racing games being poor. I agree with a lot of what you say. Apart from GT, which appears to have been pretty well received even though it hasn't sold a great deal. Most of the mainstream gaming sites seem to show GT is well received on the multiplayer. Probably because the first party studios seem to be the only ones capable of producing a half decent multiplayer experience.


Either way, the Clubs patch is coming very soon (I can confidently say next week now - and if not next week, certainly the week after!), alongside it some other fixes too. There's a Road Book in the works which will elaborate more - but genuinely, it's been rubbish for us to have been so quiet on the burning topics. More light will be shed soon and as things get quieter towards Christmas, we have the opportunity to take stock and see where we are with everything we've been working on.

I'm looking forward to the road book and whatever it covers, but you didn't "have to [be] so quiet" from a consumer view, that was a business decision which was taken for various reasons that has led to this feeling of the product being given great fanfare and then being completely abandoned as soon as it was launched.


Whether I share them or not (mine are more related to AI), it doesn't feel like the fundamental issues with the game that people have (regarding the stage generator or RWD physics) have been acknowledged by Codemasters and, even if there is no solution for this title, it would be good to see them addressed (hopefully this road book will touch upon them).


Now I realise that none of this is your personal doing and we have been spoilt with the DiRT Rally Early Access programme and the level of communication right up until DiRT 4s release and I apologise for venting a little. My personal frustration is that I've come to enjoy games being moving projects that evolve and add content and patches as time goes along. I don't buy many per year, and DiRT 4 is only the second game I've ever pre-ordered, but compared to the others I've acquired in the last year, and to DiRT Rally before that, it just feels like this one has been completely abandoned.


Anyway, I look forward to the road book. I can't say clubs hold much appeal at this stage, but hopefully there are a few tidbits about future direction for either the game or the series.

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F1 2017's had upwards of 10 patches this year, as well as the world's biggest racing Esports Championship! So while in an ideal world we'd have entirely separate teams for every project, it's just not how that works in application. We have to borrow all sorts of people from different parts of the company to get things done, and that's certainly been the case this summer with all of the new games, Esports stuff and the new IP announcement!

Either way, the Clubs patch is coming very soon (I can confidently say next week now - and if not next week, certainly the week after!), alongside it some other fixes too. There's a Road Book in the works which will elaborate more - but genuinely, it's been rubbish for us to have been so quiet on the burning topics. More light will be shed soon and as things get quieter towards Christmas, we have the opportunity to take stock and see where we are with everything we've been working on.
I would love to say "Yey, finally some progress", but this feels as way to little too late. Not to mention it's still extremely vague. The explanation for why Dirt 4 has been virtually ignored is fine enough. (ignored in a customer sense, not internally at Codemasters). However, to keep telling that a patch is coming, again and again with mostly the same words being used over and over again just frustrates customers. With the early November post also stating "while we're working on things you've fed back on, whether or not we can realistically bring it to this project is the questiondoes read like a company that have seen what people really don't like with the current game, while seeing that the game is not anywhere close to the popularity that was expected - and that the plan is to fix it for a new game, not the current. I know this is likely to be a board and shareholder issue, and that they fall in the same trap as many - that short term profits is more interesting than spending a bit more time on each "project" and looking at it as a long-term fanbase thing.
And yes, it has been rubbish, not only rubbish, it's been utterly appalling and ignorant. It does not take much time to write short updates, to at least properly acknowledge a community and issues.
However, this is just a single customer standpoint.

In addition, the total silence isn't something that is limited to a single customer situation. And while I have no problems seeing the fact that we are a community, and not a big official series like e.g the F1 eSports, and that the reddit community have more drivers in their events. There have been numerous attempts from me, and one other person from RaceDepartment to contact Codemasters regarding D4 (we also did that before DR for what it's worth). And there has been a total silence in all channels. It just compounds the impression I have as a customer, that D4 have been totally and utterly ignored.

I really hope the club patch does come as advertised now, and that we get a clear view of the number of players on the different games, from a competitive view, we must make a decision regarding the next season of our rally championship. And at the moment DiRT Rally have more daily players than DiRT 4, WRC 7 and Seb.Loeb Rally combined.

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dirt3joe said:
The F1 team and the DiRT teams should be/are 2 separate entities. they weren't pulled off of DR AFAIK to fix the apparent dumpster fire that was F1 2015 AND 2016. That argument holds very little water, but I also don't have F1 2017 to see if they're still constantly making patches.

Codies said themselves that F1 tends to grab the resources around this time of year so I don't quite know what you're on about there.

I guess it would be nice if they had separate development teams for each product, but the real world doesn't work like that. Programmers/artists etc are a resource that can be allocated across different product areas. There may be a core staff for each product such as the game designer etc. But these people are unlikely to be able to push the product forwards on their own.

I don't know about racing games being poor. I agree with a lot of what you say. Apart from GT, which appears to have been pretty well received even though it hasn't sold a great deal. Most of the mainstream gaming sites seem to show GT is well received on the multiplayer. Probably because the first party studios seem to be the only ones capable of producing a half decent multiplayer experience.

F1 2017's had upwards of 10 patches this year, as well as the world's biggest racing Esports Championship! So while in an ideal world we'd have entirely separate teams for every project, it's just not how that works in application. We have to borrow all sorts of people from different parts of the company to get things done, and that's certainly been the case this summer with all of the new games, Esports stuff and the new IP announcement!

Either way, the Clubs patch is coming very soon (I can confidently say next week now - and if not next week, certainly the week after!), alongside it some other fixes too. There's a Road Book in the works which will elaborate more - but genuinely, it's been rubbish for us to have been so quiet on the burning topics. More light will be shed soon and as things get quieter towards Christmas, we have the opportunity to take stock and see where we are with everything we've been working on.
Thank you for taking the time to squelch some of this fire. Looking forward to the update, as well as word of an upcoming road book. Could you give some teasers on the update aside from clubs please? Good old fashion teasers would be great. Give us something to gossip about..MDGA!

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What exactly will add that Club update in Dirt 4?
Same as "leagues" in DiRT Rally, a chance to make organized driving with more than 8 people. 

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I love the schizophrenia of this community. "D4 sucks, where's my D4 content ?!"

:D

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enamel said:
I love the schizophrenia of this community. "D4 sucks, where's my D4 content ?!"

:D

I can't speak for anyone else, but to me new content symbolises ongoing support or development to a title. The other things I've bought this year are Project Cars 2 and Warhammer Total War and both devs make clear up front that DLC and a year of support and patching go hand in hand. 

In fairness, Codemasters never said that would be the case with DiRT 4, but I sort of thought that came as standard with any major title these days, and DiRT 4 being hyped as a 'full, proper game, not like DiRT Rally' put it into that bracket in my mind.

It's why, to me, it would almost be fair enough to come out and say "we're sorry that DiRT 4 didn't meet your expectations, we're writing it off due to the size of the work and working on addressing them for the next title". Obviously, in this reactionary day and age they won't do that, but it's just my opinion.

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