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Pad wheel rebalance!

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I have recently made jump to wheel last month after hitting a wall with my lap times on xbox. I was 1.5seconds off top 10 for nearly every track no assists for f1 17. I have been racing in leagues  for 2 years so I have little experience . The league I am currently competing in was being dominated by 2 wheel users, its what motivated me to make the jump. I was frustrated for about a week because pedal base kept moving. After I fixed this issue my times have dropped alot closed gap to half a second. 

One major advantage I have noticed with wheel is having ability to abuse downshifts without needing to brake. Last year's game allowed you to do same with gamepad for f1 2017 game punishes you for doing this on pad by making the car uncontrollable during weight transfer. This is a major advantage since wheel has alot more steering angle to begin with for example. sector 1 Australia my old 1st sector times for tt was in 27.2s now my wheel s1 times 26.9s 0.300 for Two corners is just wrong! Since I spent hours  on pad 4days worth of gameplay on f1 17 trying to improve my times. I find mistakes on wheel braking late locking up losing traction easier and more forgiving to pad. I can know drive consistently without raceline. I struggled alot on pad. 

Before I had my wheel. I watched alot of trackguides tutorials etc to stay competitive with my friends. one of my best friends has always managed top 50 tt drives in top league one of best leagues.. He's one who got me into league racing last 2 games bam!!brickwall 1 second gap within top 10 always assumed it was my trail braking because my best friend said he used pad. He told me I gotta trail brake later exploit the track limits use my own lines spam those downshifts etc for 2years. 2 month ago I went to my friends house caught him with full on collapseble rig with alogitech. he revealed all lol

NOT gonna say his name or gamertag. I get it bragging rights he has player's following him I'm his mate but i want to kill em lol I am still salty 

I now understand why most pad players use assists. I feel your frustration. 
Wheel being faster is wrong f1 is sim arcade not a simulation. wheel and pad needs to be on par. Wheel users need give respect to pad players including myself. Most of playerbase for f1 play using a pad and don't get the luxury of having wheel!

All hail pad user's!! 

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lol, forums front page has  a thread pointing out a player has been playing in leagues for the last 2 years and  threads complaining multiplayer has been totally unplayable and no one can play in leagues right next to each other. Someone is wrong 

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kevinkirk said:
lol, forums front page has  a thread pointing out a player has been playing in leagues for the last 2 years and  threads complaining multiplayer has been totally unplayable and no one can play in leagues right next to each other. Someone is wrong 
 No. 

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Pad always have hidden assists. Once you get used to it with practice, pad is still fastest especially in wet

even logitech wheels have edge to thrustmaster especially on the pedal end. Logitech pedals are not as sensitive as logitech.

logitech pedals have more linear input than thrustmaster which are very much sensitive

to make things at par is impossible for any development house. 

Look at esports events, lap times recorded and you will understand what am talking about

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I'm using a keyboard. Faster than a cheap bad awful wheel. 3 to 4 seconds slower than a player with a pro racing wheel. Slower than pad players (smfh!?). I wish it would be possible to play against players that use the same kind of controller.

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TAKIINOUE said:
kevinkirk said:
lol, forums front page has  a thread pointing out a player has been playing in leagues for the last 2 years and  threads complaining multiplayer has been totally unplayable and no one can play in leagues right next to each other. Someone is wrong 
 No. 
 How did you translate that into a no? 

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Controllers are actually faster on some tracks due to the hidden assist. You just weren't very good with a controller lol.

I have both a wheel and a controller and when switching between the two, the traction difference is very noticeable. Controller is much easier to maintain traction, esp in the wet.

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 There are no hidden assists in the pad for goodness sake. Why on earth would the makers of my controller think "Oh let's put in something to help users with one game, that one game being F1 2017 (which hadn't even been released at the time I bought my controller)!*? They wouldn't.

  I can't believe that this theory even has legs, it's absolute nonsense.

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Kevin, because for person x, online racing is so full of lag and bugs to be unplayable, and for person y, maybe they can tolerate these things? Did you think to consider that before reaching your hasty conclusion that someone is "wrong"? How such an opinion can be wrong in the first place is beyond me.

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Takiinoue: Those people are just f**king with us. I mean, if the assists were truly hidden, then how do they know about it?

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TAKIINOUE said:
 There are no hidden assists in the pad for goodness sake. Why on earth would the makers of my controller think "Oh let's put in something to help users with one game, that one game being F1 2017 (which hadn't even been released at the time I bought my controller)!*? They wouldn't.

  I can't believe that this theory even has legs, it's absolute nonsense.
Dude the assists aren’t physically in the controller. We mean it’s this game that has some built in assistance when using pad as an input. There is just more input filtering and processing for pads since it’s harder to be more precise on pad. I suppose it’s not necessarily an assist, but not everything is 1:1 with pad input, while it’s definitely closer to that with wheel.

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TAKIINOUE said:
Kevin, because for person x, online racing is so full of lag and bugs to be unplayable, and for person y, maybe they can tolerate these things? Did you think to consider that before reaching your hasty conclusion that someone is "wrong"? How such an opinion can be wrong in the first place is beyond me.
You guys been preaching online is broken and whats broken makes it unplayable. Not it can be played if you just ignore issues. Are you saying now saying all the threads suggesting the world is going to burst in flames because online is so unplayable was simply based on opinion? 

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kevinkirk said:
TAKIINOUE said:
Kevin, because for person x, online racing is so full of lag and bugs to be unplayable, and for person y, maybe they can tolerate these things? Did you think to consider that before reaching your hasty conclusion that someone is "wrong"? How such an opinion can be wrong in the first place is beyond me.
You guys been preaching online is broken and whats broken makes it unplayable. Not it can be played if you just ignore issues. Are you saying now saying all the threads suggesting the world is going to burst in flames because online is so unplayable was simply based on opinion? 
 Nothing "simply" about it. For these people, the game was clearly unplayable, for others it just about is. But the game has many problems, no doubt about that. 

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pijin said:
TAKIINOUE said:
 There are no hidden assists in the pad for goodness sake. Why on earth would the makers of my controller think "Oh let's put in something to help users with one game, that one game being F1 2017 (which hadn't even been released at the time I bought my controller)!*? They wouldn't.

  I can't believe that this theory even has legs, it's absolute nonsense.
Dude the assists aren’t physically in the controller. We mean it’s this game that has some built in assistance when using pad as an input. There is just more input filtering and processing for pads since it’s harder to be more precise on pad. I suppose it’s not necessarily an assist, but not everything is 1:1 with pad input, while it’s definitely closer to that with wheel.
 I still don't buy it. Have Codemasters confirmed this? Remember that people said it was a "hidden assist", which begs the question as to how anyone on here would know about it.

 I get by with the controller just fine, but a wheel would be better I'm sure. Certainly for more precise movements.

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Pad being faster than wheel is unrealistic and shouldn't be. Thats why you buy a wheel. And that's why a real F1 car don't have a pad. Should any bad steering device be compensated by the game for a good steering device? To a certain degree, ok, but it should never ever be better. My opinion.

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xdannil said:
Pad being faster than wheel is unrealistic and shouldn't be. Thats why you buy a wheel. And that's why a real F1 car don't have a pad. Should any bad steering device be compensated by the game for a good steering device? To a certain degree, ok, but it should never ever be better. My opinion.
 There is no evidence that the pad IS faster than the wheel, just supposition. Unless someone can show me evidence of Codemasters confirming this? I just got used to racing without traction control, ABS, etc and now people say "Oh your controller has hidden assists". Like hell it does.

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@TAKIINOUE, you are right, it is supposition since no one from Codemasters has technically confirmed it. I'm saying that it's not necessarily an assist, but its just that the signals from the controller aren't 1:1 (i.e. 50% trigger = 50% throttle) and whatnot so that it is easier to cope with the fact that you have a 1cm travel axis for gas and brake, and a 1cm rotation for steering. Obviously, if everything were the same as wheel, it would be massively difficult. 

That's not to say the "assists" make pad easy. They just make it more usable.

As for the assertion that pad IS faster than the wheel, no one can really know for sure. People who are really good at pad (like TRL Limitless) may not necessarily be as good on wheel, and vice versa. So you are right, that is also supposition. This year, it seems very well balanced since pad can compete with wheel online. Maybe to reach the peak of the peak (like eSports level), wheel might be better, but there's no doubt that the pad allows you to be competitive enough online. It's physically not possible to dumb down the handling on pad enough to make it absolutely equal.

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pijin said:
@TAKIINOUE, you are right, it is supposition since no one from Codemasters has technically confirmed it. I'm saying that it's not necessarily an assist, but its just that the signals from the controller aren't 1:1 (i.e. 50% trigger = 50% throttle) and whatnot so that it is easier to cope with the fact that you have a 1cm travel axis for gas and brake, and a 1cm rotation for steering. Obviously, if everything were the same as wheel, it would be massively difficult. 

That's not to say the "assists" make pad easy. They just make it more usable.

As for the assertion that pad IS faster than the wheel, no one can really know for sure. People who are really good at pad (like TRL Limitless) may not necessarily be as good on wheel, and vice versa. So you are right, that is also supposition. This year, it seems very well balanced since pad can compete with wheel online. Maybe to reach the peak of the peak (like eSports level), wheel might be better, but there's no doubt that the pad allows you to be competitive enough online. It's physically not possible to dumb down the handling on pad enough to make it absolutely equal.
 Fair enough, pijin. I'm just glad I took the assists off, because it's a lot more enjoyable this way :)

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pijin said:
@TAKIINOUE, you are right, it is supposition since no one from Codemasters has technically confirmed it. I'm saying that it's not necessarily an assist, but its just that the signals from the controller aren't 1:1 (i.e. 50% trigger = 50% throttle) and whatnot so that it is easier to cope with the fact that you have a 1cm travel axis for gas and brake, and a 1cm rotation for steering. Obviously, if everything were the same as wheel, it would be massively difficult. 

That's not to say the "assists" make pad easy. They just make it more usable.

As for the assertion that pad IS faster than the wheel, no one can really know for sure. People who are really good at pad (like TRL Limitless) may not necessarily be as good on wheel, and vice versa. So you are right, that is also supposition. This year, it seems very well balanced since pad can compete with wheel online. Maybe to reach the peak of the peak (like eSports level), wheel might be better, but there's no doubt that the pad allows you to be competitive enough online. It's physically not possible to dumb down the handling on pad enough to make it absolutely equal.
You kind of can know it for sure.

The way to do it is plot a frequecy distribution of times vs. time interval for timetrial. Then you fit that to a gaussian curve (times should be normally distributed). You do the same for both wheel and pad. The curve peaks (distribution mean) should match if the controller methods are balanced.

Of course with assists and setup changes you will also see variation, but that should be averaged out provided the use of assists is balanced over the controller method. That is a big assumption to make, and you would probably need to skew the results on that, or in other words a wheel user is probably a more dedicated player on average and is much more likely to tweak the car settings and therefore get better times than a pad user. My guess is that codies have all this info and use it. It would not be a difficult project to do for someone with A level maths skills.


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