Why I think F1 2018 may be the final F1 Game...

[mceci1 20]

SgtKubica said:

kevinkirk said:

Operator1 said:

kevinkirk said:
How on earth can you give a constructive complaint about things wrong in a game no one has even played yet?

How on earth can you expect constructive feedback to change much about a game that's already been released? Better to speak up before release while there's still time to change the next release. (Isn't that what betas are for - to get feedback before release?)

kevinkirk said:
Read his comments again

I read every word (did you?), and the comments concluded with:

SgtKubica said:

...My predictions for F1 2018 are stronger AI than now as well as improvements in career. However, I fear this will only bring more bugs and glitches... The only rescue mission I see here is employing some strong programmers...

...which sounds to me like feedback towards making the next game better than 

right,,,,so those things are mentioned around the point of anything good they try to do will only be bringing more bugs. Stop pretending thats not the point you got from that. Why the hell are we debated whether or not to start complaining about a game not made or played yet? 

Operator1 said:

kevinkirk said: Why the hell are we debated whether or not to start complaining about a game not made or played yet? 

We're not. You are.

Nobody is forcing you to click topics, read them, & tell others to stop talking about those topics.

Try this: if you're not interested in a thread's topic, just ignore the thread & go on about your day.

Everybody will be happier. <3

I want to inject myself before this gets out of hand! My aim of this thread wasn't to criticize Codemasters for the game they produce and market. My aim was to simply point out the issues and what I feel the solution is.

However, I believe this solution will not happen and this links back to the thread title.

I believe it will happen personally, your not the issue for codemasters though, you are helping. Others just like to whinge, without any idea what F1 2017 is like, some are serial pests

[Operator1 4]

mceci1 said:

I'd love to see some of the hypocrites here make a game with technology now, none of us would be able to think of how hard it is with a group of whingers on their case, they have added what we wanted, yes its not perfect but they ARE listening. What do they get, nothing but whinge, whinge, whinge

I'd love to see you win Le Mans... but I'm guessing you probably don't have years of experience as a winning professional race car driver... and I'm guessing that wouldn't stop you from criticizing a professional race car driver who drives poorly.

I'd love to see you land a commercial airline passenger jet perfectly... but I'm guessing you probably don't don't have years of experience as a commercial airline pilot... and I'm guessing that wouldn't stop you from criticizing a bad pilot who flopped a landing.

I don't need to be a certified master chef to see that the blood-red cold steak in front of me is under-cooked. If I wanted to cook it myself, I wouldn't have ordered it from a restaurant that sells steaks. I expect the chef who sold me the steak to know how to do his job and cook it properly.

...And naturally, I expect game companies that employ professional game developers to sell games that reliably function properly. That doesn't seem like an outrageously entitled thing to ask.

[speeddemon8021 0]

dirt3joe said:

What will ultimately do it for F1 from CM is if the cost of the licence + cost of development will not be covered by sales.

What can they add into 18 to jazz it up enough to make people want to buy it over 17 ? Expanded classics mode ? Multi car career with GP2 ? Something else ? They must have something in the works now.

Edit : Probably VR

That right there is part of the problem people wanting them to "jazz it up" i say screw thar get the basics right first,there are so many fundamental parts of the game that just don't work properly,sort that stuff first before you start window dressing.

[dirt3joe 0]

speeddemon8021 said:

dirt3joe said:

What will ultimately do it for F1 from CM is if the cost of the licence + cost of development will not be covered by sales.

What can they add into 18 to jazz it up enough to make people want to buy it over 17 ? Expanded classics mode ? Multi car career with GP2 ? Something else ? They must have something in the works now.

Edit : Probably VR

That right there is part of the problem people wanting them to "jazz it up" i say screw thar get the basics right first,there are so many fundamental parts of the game that just don't work properly,sort that stuff first before you start window dressing.

Unfortunately "we fixed most of the stuff we should have fixed last time" doesn't make a good tagline for the front of the box.

[speeddemon8021 0]

dirt3joe said:

speeddemon8021 said:

dirt3joe said:

What will ultimately do it for F1 from CM is if the cost of the licence + cost of development will not be covered by sales.

What can they add into 18 to jazz it up enough to make people want to buy it over 17 ? Expanded classics mode ? Multi car career with GP2 ? Something else ? They must have something in the works now.

Edit : Probably VR

That right there is part of the problem people wanting them to "jazz it up" i say screw thar get the basics right first,there are so many fundamental parts of the game that just don't work properly,sort that stuff first before you start window dressing.

Unfortunately "we fixed most of the stuff we should have fixed last time" doesn't make a good tagline for the front of the box.

Well unless they make a game where the fundamentals work as advertised they ain't gonna sell very many of those fancy boxes because people have had enough.

[Chromatic 127]

What's clear since 2015 is an ongoing trend of broken promises of fixing issues (better luck next time) only to cheapskate support and development for the F1 series. It's been three years since we moved to higher powered consoles and they still haven't added legacy features from the previous generation. I hoped this year after Evolution studio's was purchased things might change but I was wrong. If they can't get the basics to work properly then what is the point of wasting my money? I for one wont fall for a shiny new trailers promising mountains of ant when they can't build a basic dug heap.    

[FRACTURED 30]

mceci1 said:

I'd love to see some of the hypocrites here make a game with technology now, none of us would be able to think of how hard it is with a group of whingers on their case, they have added what we wanted, yes its not perfect but they ARE listening. What do they get, nothing but whinge, whinge, whinge

I love when this argument is rolled out.

No need to debunk it again. 

[dirt3joe 0]

speeddemon8021 said:

dirt3joe said:

speeddemon8021 said:

dirt3joe said:

What will ultimately do it for F1 from CM is if the cost of the licence + cost of development will not be covered by sales.

What can they add into 18 to jazz it up enough to make people want to buy it over 17 ? Expanded classics mode ? Multi car career with GP2 ? Something else ? They must have something in the works now.

Edit : Probably VR

That right there is part of the problem people wanting them to "jazz it up" i say screw thar get the basics right first,there are so many fundamental parts of the game that just don't work properly,sort that stuff first before you start window dressing.

Unfortunately "we fixed most of the stuff we should have fixed last time" doesn't make a good tagline for the front of the box.

Well unless they make a game where the fundamentals work as advertised they ain't gonna sell very many of those fancy boxes because people have had enough.

Well, I think it would be fair to say people posting on here aren't too happy. Remember though that's about 200 people out of a user base of half a million plus.

Whatever they decide to do next year, you can pretty much guess that it has already been decided. Otherwise they would not have enough time left to implement it. My guess is that it will be VR. But we shall see.

[coolieboy 0]

mceci1 said:

I'd love to see some of the hypocrites here make a game with technology now, none of us would be able to think of how hard it is with a group of whingers on their case, they have added what we wanted, yes its not perfect but they ARE listening. What do they get, nothing but whinge, whinge, whinge

Really...they are listening? In 2015 we asked for more info on the steering wheel.  In 2016 we asked for more info on the steering wheel.  In 2017 we asked for more info on the steering wheel.  In 2015 we asked for realistic rain spray.  In 2016 we asked for realistic rain spray. In 2017 we asked for realistic rain spray.  In 2015 we asked for flat spotting of tires.  In 2016 we asked for flat spotting of tires.  In 2017 we asked for flat spotting of tires.  I think we might have a different definition of what listening means...

[Operator1 4]

speeddemon8021 said:

dirt3joe said:

speeddemon8021 said:

dirt3joe said:

What will ultimately do it for F1 from CM is if the cost of the licence + cost of development will not be covered by sales.

What can they add into 18 to jazz it up enough to make people want to buy it over 17 ? Expanded classics mode ? Multi car career with GP2 ? Something else ? They must have something in the works now.

Edit : Probably VR

That right there is part of the problem people wanting them to "jazz it up" i say screw thar get the basics right first,there are so many fundamental parts of the game that just don't work properly,sort that stuff first before you start window dressing.

Unfortunately "we fixed most of the stuff we should have fixed last time" doesn't make a good tagline for the front of the box.

Well unless they make a game where the fundamentals work as advertised they ain't gonna sell very many of those fancy boxes because people have had enough.

Unfortunately, achievement statistics seem to indicate most buyers barely play the game for more than a few hours - hardly long enough to even notice many bugs/glitches/issues. That crowd will likely continue buying & funding more buggy releases. If a few thousand 'serious' sim racers stop buying because they're tired of broken games, it might be a 1% sales loss - which company directors would likely find more than acceptable after saving 60% of their QA budget by cutting quality.

Personally, I've always been about function over features. I prefer reliable functional quality over bells-&-whistles. I don't buy games just to passively look at their graphics & cinematics - I buy games to actively play them. No matter how shiny the graphics might be, having my gaming experiences soured by bugs/glitches/issues completely wastes both my money & the recreational time I had hoped to spend having fun.

I also understand that marketers need something to hype, so game companies are usually looking for ways to give the perception that their latest installment offers something that competing games & prior installments don't.

I might argue that since the F1 game license is exclusive, there's no direct competition to worry about trying one-up, so they don't need to spread themselves too thin by rolling out 'ground-breaking' new features that just introduce even more bugs/glitches/issues.

If they wanted to really invest in greatly improving functional quality (at the 'cost' of not introducing major new features) while also giving the marketers something to hype, perhaps they could use lines like:

• "the best F1 online experience yet"

• "easier than ever to quickly get into online races"

• "the most league-friendly online racing platform available"

• "experience the career of a F1 race driver like never before"

• "so authentic, you'll think you're at the track"

...etc.

If they found ways to hype F1 2015 despite removing career mode, then I'm sure they could find ways to hype major improvements to functional quality.

[Ho3n3r 122]

FRACTURED said:

Ho3n3r said:

SMS? LOL. At least F1 2017's setup saving works properly - PCARS2 devs are still yet to figure that one out.

Haven't I seen threads about F1 2017 resetting the saved/loaded setups for some drivers before they start a race?

In F1 2017, that hasn't happened to me once, personally - but I've seen it happen once on a Youtuber's career, in about 165 career races I've watched on there. In PCARS 2, I spent the entire 2 hours before refunding trying to get it to save and load a setup without going to default every 2nd time I go out.

I know which hit ratio I'd rather pick.

[mceci1 20]

Operator1 said:

mceci1 said:

I'd love to see some of the hypocrites here make a game with technology now, none of us would be able to think of how hard it is with a group of whingers on their case, they have added what we wanted, yes its not perfect but they ARE listening. What do they get, nothing but whinge, whinge, whinge

I'd love to see you win Le Mans... but I'm guessing you probably don't have years of experience as a winning professional race car driver... and I'm guessing that wouldn't stop you from criticizing a professional race car driver who drives poorly.

I'd love to see you land a commercial airline passenger jet perfectly... but I'm guessing you probably don't don't have years of experience as a commercial airline pilot... and I'm guessing that wouldn't stop you from criticizing a bad pilot who flopped a landing.

I don't need to be a certified master chef to see that the blood-red cold steak in front of me is under-cooked. If I wanted to cook it myself, I wouldn't have ordered it from a restaurant that sells steaks. I expect the chef who sold me the steak to know how to do his job and cook it properly.

...And naturally, I expect game companies that employ professional game developers to sell games that reliably function properly. That doesn't seem like an outrageously entitled thing to ask.

Well, at least I have racing experience, I don't have intentions to run Le Mans, as of yet. You know very little about my racing, so maybe shut it. All I ever see you do is complain and  never give codemasters or anyone credit, and once again,  SGTKubica is trying to make a CONSTRUCTIVE point, and your kind go and cause issues by saying it will never happen and the rest. There are a number I could name here who are useless to the community, and 1, don't have the game, yet speak like they know all the coding and everything in it. 2, are willing to cause tension, 3, couldn't provide useful information to Codemasters if their life depended on it, and 4, cry when they see someone rocking off the common view

[Operator1 4]

mceci1 said:
All I ever see you do is complain and  never give codemasters or anyone credit... There are a number I could name here who are useless to the community...

All I ever see you do is tell people to stop whinging about broken games, as if game companies have no obligation whatsoever to deliver games that reliably function properly in return for our money, and as if game development is so impossibly difficult that even professional & experienced game developers can't possibly be expected to make games that work. I don't see how attacking people & defending defective games is spectacularly useful to the community or to the future of games.

[mceci1 20]

Operator1 said:

mceci1 said:
All I ever see you do is complain and  never give codemasters or anyone credit... There are a number I could name here who are useless to the community...

All I ever see you do is tell people to stop whinging about broken games, as if game companies have no obligation whatsoever to deliver games that reliably function properly in return for our money, and as if game development is so impossibly difficult that even professional & experienced game developers can't possibly be expected to make games that work. I don't see how attacking people & defending defective games is spectacularly useful to the community or to the future of games.

I am not dumb or blind enough to expect something spectacular in the first 6 or so months. No game is perfect, rfactor 2 is a great example, the whole franchise is 15 years old, 2 is 7 or so, and going more and more broken. Iracing, it has bugs from time to time when they put things that are new in, its all trial and error, if you would look past your selfish demands and look at the bigger picture you'd see it

[mceci1 20]

coolieboy said:

mceci1 said:

I'd love to see some of the hypocrites here make a game with technology now, none of us would be able to think of how hard it is with a group of whingers on their case, they have added what we wanted, yes its not perfect but they ARE listening. What do they get, nothing but whinge, whinge, whinge

Really...they are listening? In 2015 we asked for more info on the steering wheel.  In 2016 we asked for more info on the steering wheel.  In 2017 we asked for more info on the steering wheel.  In 2015 we asked for realistic rain spray.  In 2016 we asked for realistic rain spray. In 2017 we asked for realistic rain spray.  In 2015 we asked for flat spotting of tires.  In 2016 we asked for flat spotting of tires.  In 2017 we asked for flat spotting of tires.  I think we might have a different definition of what listening means...

You do realise these things would be pushing capabilities of console graphics right

[Operator1 4]

mceci1 said:
I am not dumb or blind enough to expect something spectacular in the first 6 or so months.

CM has been making F1 games for 9 years. I am not dumb or blind enough to keep handing over my money for another 9 years of their defective games.

It's an annual series - support ends after just a few months so they can put all resources towards making next year's installment. If it's not working properly in the first couple months, it likely never will.

mceci1 said:
look past your selfish demands

 Wanting games I buy to reliably function properly is not a "selfish demand."

mceci1 said:
You do realise these things would be pushing capabilities of console graphics right

You do realize other games are pushing console capabilities way more than any F1 games, right?

[mceci1 20]

Operator1 said:

mceci1 said:
I am not dumb or blind enough to expect something spectacular in the first 6 or so months.

CM has been making F1 games for 9 years. I am not dumb or blind enough to keep handing over my money for another 9 years of their defective games.

It's an annual series - support ends after just a few months so they can put all resources towards making next year's installment. If it's not working properly in the first couple months, it likely never will.

mceci1 said:
look past your selfish demands

 Wanting games I buy to reliably function properly is not a "selfish demand."

mceci1 said:
You do realise these things would be pushing capabilities of console graphics right

You do realize other games are pushing console capabilities way more than any F1 games, right?

I couldn't be bothered arguing with you when your points prove what I was saying. Sufficiently looking at some of your comments, I can see you will bully people who wont agree, Lighting and V8SC were two victims I see of you. 

[mceci1 20]

Operator1 said:

mceci1 said:
I am not dumb or blind enough to expect something spectacular in the first 6 or so months.

CM has been making F1 games for 9 years. I am not dumb or blind enough to keep handing over my money for another 9 years of their defective games.

It's an annual series - support ends after just a few months so they can put all resources towards making next year's installment. If it's not working properly in the first couple months, it likely never will.

mceci1 said:
look past your selfish demands

 Wanting games I buy to reliably function properly is not a "selfish demand."

mceci1 said:
You do realise these things would be pushing capabilities of console graphics right

You do realize other games are pushing console capabilities way more than any F1 games, right?

What you also forget, games that ARENT/ARE annuals. Such as rfactor 2, Battlefront 1 and 2, Project cars 1 and 2, WRC saga, Assetto Corsa, Dirt 4, F1 2015 are all broken or incomplete, yet you refuse to acknowledge this. You only want to see what you want and not the bigger picture, am I saying a bad game is acceptable, absolutely not. Do I think F1 2017 is the worse thing out, no, only a special kind of person to argue so. F1 2017 has its issues, online, the team mate bug, but one of the worst, full stop I have ever is the Project cars series, what a joke it is, I cant believe people like it. Not to mention Nascar heat evolution last year that had cars that rubber banded, sounded like a lawn mower and was a downright horrid game, this year is a gem of a game, almost faultless.

[Operator1 4]

mceci1 said:
I couldn't be bothered arguing with you when your points prove what I was saying. Sufficiently looking at some of your comments, I can see you will bully people who wont agree

Stating counter-points to your comments is not "bullying." I've said nothing abusive.

You, however, fire off remarks like "whingers... There are a number I could name here who are useless to the community... look past your selfish demands" - but you call me a bully??

mceci1 said:
What you also forget, games that ARENT/ARE annuals. Such as rfactor 2, Battlefront 1 and 2, Project cars 1 and 2, WRC saga, Assetto Corsa, Dirt 4, F1 2015 are all broken or incomplete, yet you refuse to acknowledge this.

I'm talking about the annual F1 game series. Other games' problems do not make this game's problems acceptable, especially problems that persist year after year over multiple F1 installments.

[mceci1 20]

Operator1 said:

mceci1 said:
I couldn't be bothered arguing with you when your points prove what I was saying. Sufficiently looking at some of your comments, I can see you will bully people who wont agree

Stating counter-points to your comments is not "bullying." I've said nothing abusive.

You, however, fire off remarks like "whingers... There are a number I could name here who are useless to the community... look past your selfish demands" - but you call me a bully??

mceci1 said:
What you also forget, games that ARENT/ARE annuals. Such as rfactor 2, Battlefront 1 and 2, Project cars 1 and 2, WRC saga, Assetto Corsa, Dirt 4, F1 2015 are all broken or incomplete, yet you refuse to acknowledge this.

I'm talking about the annual F1 game series. Other games' problems do not make this game's problems acceptable, especially problems that persist year after year over multiple F1 installments.

1, where did I say you were bullying me, I never did. I was just speaking in general. 

2. I never said F1 2017s faults were acceptable, I said they shouldn't have to see whinging, its constructive to no one, explain, with reason how to fix it. That is far from what people are doing here lately

[speeddemon8021 0]

mceci1 said:

Operator1 said:

mceci1 said:
All I ever see you do is complain and  never give codemasters or anyone credit... There are a number I could name here who are useless to the community...

All I ever see you do is tell people to stop whinging about broken games, as if game companies have no obligation whatsoever to deliver games that reliably function properly in return for our money, and as if game development is so impossibly difficult that even professional & experienced game developers can't possibly be expected to make games that work. I don't see how attacking people & defending defective games is spectacularly useful to the community or to the future of games.

I am not dumb or blind enough to expect something spectacular in the first 6 or so months. No game is perfect, rfactor 2 is a great example, the whole franchise is 15 years old, 2 is 7 or so, and going more and more broken. Iracing, it has bugs from time to time when they put things that are new in, its all trial and error, if you would look past your selfish demands and look at the bigger picture you'd see it

do you not see how incredibly stupid that statement is! "I'm not blind enough to expect something spectacular in the first 6 months" dude they have stopped supporting this game and have moved onto the next one by six months leaving in their wake a litany of patches that broke more then they fixed.

[mceci1 20]

speeddemon8021 said:

mceci1 said:

Operator1 said:

mceci1 said:
All I ever see you do is complain and  never give codemasters or anyone credit... There are a number I could name here who are useless to the community...

All I ever see you do is tell people to stop whinging about broken games, as if game companies have no obligation whatsoever to deliver games that reliably function properly in return for our money, and as if game development is so impossibly difficult that even professional & experienced game developers can't possibly be expected to make games that work. I don't see how attacking people & defending defective games is spectacularly useful to the community or to the future of games.

I am not dumb or blind enough to expect something spectacular in the first 6 or so months. No game is perfect, rfactor 2 is a great example, the whole franchise is 15 years old, 2 is 7 or so, and going more and more broken. Iracing, it has bugs from time to time when they put things that are new in, its all trial and error, if you would look past your selfish demands and look at the bigger picture you'd see it

do you not see how incredibly stupid that statement is! "I'm not blind enough to expect something spectacular in the first 6 months" dude they have stopped supporting this game and have moved onto the next one by six months leaving in their wake a litany of patches that broke more then they fixed.

Stupid maybe, but usually, I don't buy yearly games for that reason. But to be frankly honest, I don't see a lot of construction going on to help these people.

[speeddemon8021 0]

mceci1 said:

Operator1 said:

mceci1 said:
I am not dumb or blind enough to expect something spectacular in the first 6 or so months.

CM has been making F1 games for 9 years. I am not dumb or blind enough to keep handing over my money for another 9 years of their defective games.

It's an annual series - support ends after just a few months so they can put all resources towards making next year's installment. If it's not working properly in the first couple months, it likely never will.

mceci1 said:
look past your selfish demands

 Wanting games I buy to reliably function properly is not a "selfish demand."

mceci1 said:
You do realise these things would be pushing capabilities of console graphics right

You do realize other games are pushing console capabilities way more than any F1 games, right?

What you also forget, games that ARENT/ARE annuals. Such as rfactor 2, Battlefront 1 and 2, Project cars 1 and 2, WRC saga, Assetto Corsa, Dirt 4, F1 2015 are all broken or incomplete, yet you refuse to acknowledge this. You only want to see what you want and not the bigger picture, am I saying a bad game is acceptable, absolutely not. Do I think F1 2017 is the worse thing out, no, only a special kind of person to argue so. F1 2017 has its issues, online, the team mate bug, but one of the worst, full stop I have ever is the Project cars series, what a joke it is, I cant believe people like it. Not to mention Nascar heat evolution last year that had cars that rubber banded, sounded like a lawn mower and was a downright horrid game, this year is a gem of a game, almost faultless.

None of the games you mentioned are annual releases and they continually supported up until the present day so with those games it might take some time but you know you will end up with a functional game.So as with your other posts you just continue to make yourself look stupid.

[mceci1 20]

speeddemon8021 said:

mceci1 said:

Operator1 said:

mceci1 said:
I am not dumb or blind enough to expect something spectacular in the first 6 or so months.

CM has been making F1 games for 9 years. I am not dumb or blind enough to keep handing over my money for another 9 years of their defective games.

It's an annual series - support ends after just a few months so they can put all resources towards making next year's installment. If it's not working properly in the first couple months, it likely never will.

mceci1 said:
look past your selfish demands

 Wanting games I buy to reliably function properly is not a "selfish demand."

mceci1 said:
You do realise these things would be pushing capabilities of console graphics right

You do realize other games are pushing console capabilities way more than any F1 games, right?

What you also forget, games that ARENT/ARE annuals. Such as rfactor 2, Battlefront 1 and 2, Project cars 1 and 2, WRC saga, Assetto Corsa, Dirt 4, F1 2015 are all broken or incomplete, yet you refuse to acknowledge this. You only want to see what you want and not the bigger picture, am I saying a bad game is acceptable, absolutely not. Do I think F1 2017 is the worse thing out, no, only a special kind of person to argue so. F1 2017 has its issues, online, the team mate bug, but one of the worst, full stop I have ever is the Project cars series, what a joke it is, I cant believe people like it. Not to mention Nascar heat evolution last year that had cars that rubber banded, sounded like a lawn mower and was a downright horrid game, this year is a gem of a game, almost faultless.

None of the games you mentioned are annual releases and they continually supported up until the present day so with those games it might take some time but you know you will end up with a functional game.So as with your other posts you just continue to make yourself look stupid.

That comment is incorrect, Battlefront 1 and Project cars 1 have been out for at least 5 years, correct, yet both are horrid and very little work was done to fix it. Battle front 2, is being fixed after, AGAIN being a mess, worse then the F1 games, project cars, seriously SMS, just give it up, its even worse then project cars one. Dirt 4, bad game, funny enough, done by codemasters, also funny enough, BEING FIXED. Nascar heat 2, constantly being worked on, 704 have been the best modern game company that I have played a game from. F1 2015, an ANNUAL, wasn't fixed. You see, the more content they add, that WE want, the harder it gets, the more they have to fix, the more things can go wrong. Look at iracing, a great sim, but do we ever hear anything about updates, very rarely, and less then we have with this game, it just comes from no where

[Operator1 4]

Clearly I'm not even remotely drunk enough for your posts to make any sense to me.