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Lets Talk about Vettel.

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I'm not sure where to start with this.

I think the main negativity is from how predictable, and how boring the sport became with him just dominating all the time. I know it gradually put me off watching, knowing that the outcome of each race was more or less predetermined. I don't watch racing to see one guy just romp off into the lead with nobody else in the field being able to catch him, I watch to see a battle for the win. 
And for me that's what's different this year. Rather than just 1 driver being able to win, there's 2 at least, and so far Mercedes are letting that happen. If Red Bull had been dominant again this season, I really can't see them having let a Bahrain style battle happen with Vettel and Ricciardo.

To be fair to Alonso, Red Bull in 2008 were an unproven team, whereas Renault was the team he won his 2 WDC's with. Had I been in his position Renault would have absolutely been an easier choice than Red Bull. 

As for Monza 2008, he was in the car that suited the conditions best over those 2 days. He didn't win again that season and only really seemed competitive in wet conditions. If he was so great then why is that the case? Surely he could have won 2 races that season if he could perform to that level? Whereas Hamilton, 2009 his car was a joke. Yet he still managed 2 wins, and should have had a 3rd. Before you say he had the best car in the second half of the season, I'd say Red Bull did, yet Hamilton could still beat them. And considering he's the only current driver to have won a race in every season he's competed in...

I suppose when I said I hated Vettel, I should have clarified a little. I don't hate him when he's away from F1. He seems like a genuinely nice guy, his Autosport speech and Top Gear interview had me laughing and smiling. 
But his attitude at a race weekend stinks. From saying Webber didn't deserve to win, whining that Raikkonen left him no space, calling Karthikeyan a cucumber even though Vettel gave him no space, blaming and moaning at the team when his car isn't right: "Do something! I have no power!", and blaming others when he's in the wrong - I seem to recall him blaming Bruno Senna for the turn 4 crash at Brazil 2012, yet it's clear on the footage that Vettel swooped at the apex as if Senna wasn't there.

There's more (his shoddy drive in Abu Dhabi 2012 which was hailed as 'great' is one) but I can't be bothered to bring more up. All that's left to say is that Vettel has had his time in the spotlight, and I for one hope it's over permanently.
I cant believe you are comparing a 2008 Toro Rosso with a 2009 McLaren. Dude the toro rosso team was the minardi team, they aint ever won a race or a podium never mind a championship, McLaren on the other hand are thee most successful team since they entered the championship, technically Ferrari are thee most successful ever I know :) but to compare the 2 is pretty flawed and if you cant see that then im not sure what to say to show you the difference lol now if Hamilton moved to a team like sauber you think he'd win 2 races this year with just his talent?? please say yes lol its crazy talk Toro Roso took a gamble on a wet setup when it was forecasted to dry up for the sunday, Vettel used this advantage to the best of his ability and won the race, the exact same as Alonso's much hyped win in Malaysia a few years back, perez's car also had a wet setup like alonso's that's why those 2 were quickest. and may I add that's what motor racing is all about. geez

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I've held this opinion for a while, and still do. I think if you put them in equal cars, Alonso, maybe even Hamilton, would beat out Vettel. Not saying that Vettel isn't a great driver, but I think that both are better than Vettel in equal cars.

why do you think Alonso doesn't want Vettel at Ferrari?



The only skill that got Vettel the 2010 WDC was Petrov's defensive skill.

that doesn't say much for Alonso's overtaking skills, they were duped by a better strategy and lost it all on there own, covering webber when every1 watching knew they should have stayed out and raced at the front with vettel and the 2 mclarens. the fact he could not get passed petrov is irrelevant to vettel being the champ, its motor racing after all did you want petrov to just leave the door open and wave him by?? foolish. To see Alonso blaming petrov after the race showed what he is like as a person. Alonso is thee best driver in F1 just now its just a pity about his attitude.

Well considering that the Ferrari was the 3rd best car that season, covering off the guy with most points would have seemed a good strategy. Of course it didn't work but it's easy to say that with hindsight isn't it? I'm pretty sure whilst watching the race you wouldn't have been thinking his strategy was wrong.

As for the attitude, same could be said for Vettel.

I'll reply to your other post later, on my phone writing this and I cba to do a long one on this tiny keyboard lol.

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IMO Vettel's win in the Toro Rosso was no better then Button's in Hungary 2006. Both benefited from the quicker teams having terrible days and both were in similar conditions.

Of course I'm probably being bias being a Button fan but I can't see why Vettel's win could be considered any greater.

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I can see why Vettel is the villain in many peoples eyes, but I think he gets a lot of unfair hate directed at him. It doesn't really bother me that people hate, but some of the people saying he has a child like attitude, judging by their comments, are even more child like. I used to think that the F1 community was more respectful/mature than the football community, but when you read comments from the people on certain sites, you learn they are just as bad. 

After the Chinese GP someone wrote in an article that he "threw a teenage fit" referring to his "Tough Luck" comment. I'd hardly say that was a teenage fit. I'm betting that at Malaysia when Massa was asked to move that that same reporter said "Good on him for fighting on" or something similar. Because some people are beyond a joke when it comes to criticising  Vettel (Looking at PF1).

Like so many successful things, he is just cool to hate. It was not so long ago that people hated Alonso, now they love him, maybe the same for Vettel one day? 

At the end of the day, what you think of Vettel or any driver depends which side of the fence you sit on because obviously I will defend Vettel, I am a supporter, same with Manchester United, I defend them in arguments. Take Multi 21 as an example, I think he did the right thing, I felt sorry for Mark, but team orders are not right that early in the season.

I'd also say that you have to respect the amount of time Vettel puts into F1 and how he keeps his private life private. That is one aspect I don't like about Hamilton. 

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AMS97KRR said:
I can see why Vettel is the villain in many peoples eyes, but I think he gets a lot of unfair hate directed at him. It doesn't really bother me that people hate, but some of the people saying he has a child like attitude, judging by their comments, are even more child like. I used to think that the F1 community was more respectful/mature than the football community, but when you read comments from the people on certain sites, you learn they are just as bad. 

After the Chinese GP someone wrote in an article that he "threw a teenage fit" referring to his "Tough Luck" comment. I'd hardly say that was a teenage fit. I'm betting that at Malaysia when Massa was asked to move that that same reporter said "Good on him for fighting on" or something similar. Because some people are beyond a joke when it comes to criticising  Vettel (Looking at PF1).

Like so many successful things, he is just cool to hate. It was not so long ago that people hated Alonso, now they love him, maybe the same for Vettel one day? 

At the end of the day, what you think of Vettel or any driver depends which side of the fence you sit on because obviously I will defend Vettel, I am a supporter, same with Manchester United, I defend them in arguments. Take Multi 21 as an example, I think he did the right thing, I felt sorry for Mark, but team orders are not right that early in the season.

I'd also say that you have to respect the amount of time Vettel puts into F1 and how he keeps his private life private. That is one aspect I don't like about Hamilton. 
No no no no no no no no. Just no. PF1 is well known for having terrible forums full of ****heads. If your going to go by that site then I cannot take you seriously. Don't take the people there as the majority.

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AMS97KRR said:
I can see why Vettel is the villain in many peoples eyes, but I think he gets a lot of unfair hate directed at him. It doesn't really bother me that people hate, but some of the people saying he has a child like attitude, judging by their comments, are even more child like. I used to think that the F1 community was more respectful/mature than the football community, but when you read comments from the people on certain sites, you learn they are just as bad. 

After the Chinese GP someone wrote in an article that he "threw a teenage fit" referring to his "Tough Luck" comment. I'd hardly say that was a teenage fit. I'm betting that at Malaysia when Massa was asked to move that that same reporter said "Good on him for fighting on" or something similar. Because some people are beyond a joke when it comes to criticising  Vettel (Looking at PF1).

Like so many successful things, he is just cool to hate. It was not so long ago that people hated Alonso, now they love him, maybe the same for Vettel one day? 

At the end of the day, what you think of Vettel or any driver depends which side of the fence you sit on because obviously I will defend Vettel, I am a supporter, same with Manchester United, I defend them in arguments. Take Multi 21 as an example, I think he did the right thing, I felt sorry for Mark, but team orders are not right that early in the season.

I'd also say that you have to respect the amount of time Vettel puts into F1 and how he keeps his private life private. That is one aspect I don't like about Hamilton. 
No no no no no no no no. Just no. PF1 is well known for having terrible forums full of ****heads. If your going to go by that site then I cannot take you seriously. Don't take the people there as the majority.
I was talking about the person who wrote the article. PF1's comments are full of idiots

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AMS97KRR said:

AMS97KRR said:
I can see why Vettel is the villain in many peoples eyes, but I think he gets a lot of unfair hate directed at him. It doesn't really bother me that people hate, but some of the people saying he has a child like attitude, judging by their comments, are even more child like. I used to think that the F1 community was more respectful/mature than the football community, but when you read comments from the people on certain sites, you learn they are just as bad. 

After the Chinese GP someone wrote in an article that he "threw a teenage fit" referring to his "Tough Luck" comment. I'd hardly say that was a teenage fit. I'm betting that at Malaysia when Massa was asked to move that that same reporter said "Good on him for fighting on" or something similar. Because some people are beyond a joke when it comes to criticising  Vettel (Looking at PF1).

Like so many successful things, he is just cool to hate. It was not so long ago that people hated Alonso, now they love him, maybe the same for Vettel one day? 

At the end of the day, what you think of Vettel or any driver depends which side of the fence you sit on because obviously I will defend Vettel, I am a supporter, same with Manchester United, I defend them in arguments. Take Multi 21 as an example, I think he did the right thing, I felt sorry for Mark, but team orders are not right that early in the season.

I'd also say that you have to respect the amount of time Vettel puts into F1 and how he keeps his private life private. That is one aspect I don't like about Hamilton. 
No no no no no no no no. Just no. PF1 is well known for having terrible forums full of ****heads. If your going to go by that site then I cannot take you seriously. Don't take the people there as the majority.
I was talking about the person who wrote the article. PF1's comments are full of idiots
Oh , would you mind linking to the article if you can still find it ?

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You have to say Vettel is a true great when it comes to comparing him against the best. He has so many more wins, more titles, more poles, more fastest laps, more points, more podiums than the likes of Ide, Deletraz, Inoue, Badoer, Mazzacane, etc

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I can't find it, it was one of the articles that is next to the main one (in the grid of 4, right hand side). 

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I think Vettel is a good driver, but sometimes he acts like a little dog IMO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I saw him at the Race Of Champions in 2012, he seemed like quite a chilled guy out of the car. But he isn't too chilled inside the car, there is a difference :P

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I've held this opinion for a while, and still do. I think if you put them in equal cars, Alonso, maybe even Hamilton, would beat out Vettel. Not saying that Vettel isn't a great driver, but I think that both are better than Vettel in equal cars.

why do you think Alonso doesn't want Vettel at Ferrari?



The only skill that got Vettel the 2010 WDC was Petrov's defensive skill.

that doesn't say much for Alonso's overtaking skills, they were duped by a better strategy and lost it all on there own, covering webber when every1 watching knew they should have stayed out and raced at the front with vettel and the 2 mclarens. the fact he could not get passed petrov is irrelevant to vettel being the champ, its motor racing after all did you want petrov to just leave the door open and wave him by?? foolish. To see Alonso blaming petrov after the race showed what he is like as a person. Alonso is thee best driver in F1 just now its just a pity about his attitude.

Well considering that the Ferrari was the 3rd best car that season, covering off the guy with most points would have seemed a good strategy. Of course it didn't work but it's easy to say that with hindsight isn't it? I'm pretty sure whilst watching the race you wouldn't have been thinking his strategy was wrong.

As for the attitude, same could be said for Vettel.

I'll reply to your other post later, on my phone writing this and I cba to do a long one on this tiny keyboard lol.
if I remember correctly Petrov and Rosberg had pitted early, Webber pitted then Alonso pitted lap after whilst Vettel who was leading kept going, at that very point I knew Vettel was champion as it was so obvious Alonso was going to be behind Petrov as that's where Webber came out. it was a bad mistake, which cost a long serving member of the team to lose there job, a very important member of the team who had been there since Schumi was winning everything. so to say that's not what I was thinking is wrong as that's exactly what I was thinking. I don't think it matters how much Vettel does some people clearly will never accept or respect his achievements in the sport. people bring up the remarks Vettel makes in the car, he is uber competitive what do you want him to do? roll over and accept it? I remember Hamilton whining that a Williams had overtaken him, Alonso whining about being too slow to keep a force india behind him, it happens all the time, if a drivers not winning they're not happy its not rocket science and doesn't only apply to Vettel. button moaning about the brake locking , Kimi moaning about,,,well everything, Rosberg moaning about his tyres yet its never mentioned because its what happens, Vettel is being singled out because he is winning and its that simple. if he was not 4 x world champion back to back to back to back then he would get little press time. the fact he done 4 back to back must make all the top drivers jealous, its natural.

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Really really CBA to write an essay back to this! How about a compromise, I don't like Vettel, you do. End of story. Call it quits before this just carries on in an endless loop of me saying why Vettel sucks and you saying why he doesn't?

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Well of course Vettel's going to get more air time. Hell, Nicole Scherzinger had more air time than Karun Chandhok and Yuji Ide combined.

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Really really CBA to write an essay back to this! How about a compromise, I don't like Vettel, you do. End of story. Call it quits before this just carries on in an endless loop of me saying why Vettel sucks and you saying why he doesn't?
Yes.

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Really really CBA to write an essay back to this! How about a compromise, I don't like Vettel, you do. End of story. Call it quits before this just carries on in an endless loop of me saying why Vettel sucks and you saying why he doesn't?

the thing is im not a vettel fan I just don't see why a lot of people hate him so much.. he is very successful and deserves praise not hatred.  I don't think I should compromise as I clearly don't have a problem with him or the fact he won 4 championships back to back, sure I respect him and his achievements but that does not make me a fan..


on another note that was mentioned earlier I forgot to say this,,, vettel gets ridiculed for being a cry baby for moaning on the radio, saying stuff in the press blah blah blah,,,, remember when lewis Hamilton released mclarens private telemetry on twitter that was maure huh, that was good work right, that was not sulking,,, it happens get over it



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Sigh.

Hamilton was whining by posting a picture? Seemed to me he was trying to show why running a different wing had made him slower than Button. Evidently he shouldn't have posted his telemetry, but then people make mistakes. It happens. Get over it. Clearly you haven't yet.

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Sigh.

Hamilton was whining by posting a picture? Seemed to me he was trying to show why running a different wing had made him slower than Button. Evidently he shouldn't have posted his telemetry, but then people make mistakes. It happens. Get over it. Clearly you haven't yet.
I think we would all complian at some points if we were in those seats.

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Sigh.

Hamilton was whining by posting a picture? Seemed to me he was trying to show why running a different wing had made him slower than Button. Evidently he shouldn't have posted his telemetry, but then people make mistakes. It happens. Get over it. Clearly you haven't yet.


haha the difference is I don't really care what each driver says or posts online just seems to me you are personally singling out Vettel forgetting your preffered driver has the same if not worse inadequacies. I was mearly pointing out that every driver will at sometime come under immense pressure and crack, im not singling out Hamilton, remember what Alonso done back in 2007. Schumacher was the same, prost was the same, senna was the same. when they are used to winning and another driver/team dominates its only natural for such competitive people to be jealous and that's what it all comes down too. they all think they should win every grand prix and if you listen to interviews you should realise that its one of the hardest things to come to terms with when you arrive in f1. and its not only in f1, cal crutchlow a moto gp rider explained it perfectly, you win everything on your way to the pinnacle of your sport then arrive and struggle to win as much as you did in previous categories.

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You don't? Bit of a 180 from how you clearly revelled in Hamilton's silly mistake in your last post.

Worse? That is a joke right? I don't remember Fernando ever saying one of his teammates didn't deserve to win, and I don't remember him ever calling a backmarker a cucumber. Sure, on some things they are similar, but Vettel is and always will be a two-faced a-hole.

Anyhow, I feel replying to your posts is a waste of time, people like you will never shut up until you feel like your 'opinion' has been recognised as correct and right. I have the pleasure of telling you that 90% of members here will disagree with you, so good luck.

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because 90% of the people here are, 1, brits and 2, Hamilton fans lulz

seriously I was pointing out how Hamilton done similar things. ok so im guessing you cant see it that way, you think I hate Hamilton lol bla bla bla im pointing out they are similar. im not explaining brain surgery its not complicated, do you understand? shall I talk slower? spell each word to you?


when Alonso was with Renault he done exactly that on the radio to his team in the Canadian gp as they asked him to let fisichella past. so there you go. I know Alonso called Hamilton much worse than a cucumber in 2007 and hamiltons remarks in Monaco I cant remember the year, that time he took massa off about 3 times in 1 lap. lol I don't have a selective memory I have a photographic memory and remember most things lulz


your hate for vettel grows deeper each day and will only lead you to the dark side :) pmsl this is fun talking to you, reminds me of teaching my kid the ways of the world


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because 90% of the people here are, 1, brits and 2, Hamilton fans lulz

seriously I was pointing out how Hamilton done similar things. ok so im guessing you cant see it that way, you think I hate Hamilton lol bla bla bla im pointing out they are similar. im not explaining brain surgery its not complicated, do you understand? shall I talk slower? spell each word to you?


when Alonso was with Renault he done exactly that on the radio to his team in the Canadian gp as they asked him to let fisichella past. so there you go. I know Alonso called Hamilton much worse than a cucumber in 2007 and hamiltons remarks in Monaco I cant remember the year, that time he took massa off about 3 times in 1 lap. lol I don't have a selective memory I have a photographic memory and remember most things lulz


your hate for vettel grows deeper each day and will only lead you to the dark side :) pmsl this is fun talking to you, reminds me of teaching my kid the ways of the world


 I honestly can't remember Hamilton doing anything similar. From what I remember of his career thus far he's been rather well behaved in comparison.

Were you actually even watching F1 in 2007? Alonso and Hamilton did not call each other anything. There was perhaps a few covert hints that they weren't friends, but nothing more. Certainly nothing like cucumber. Care to provide some evidence?

He took Massa off? Alonso was faster, got alongside and Massa took up the line expecting Alonso to back off. He didn't. Your photographic memory seems to have photoshop installed ;)

My hate for Vettel has started to dim a little if you must know. Not having him at the front anymore does that. I just laugh at him now :p

You have a kid? Well, they say stupidity breeds stupidity, so I can't help but feel sorry for the young one.

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